Saved by Faith vs Repentance and Obeying the Commandments
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
actually God says DO a lot . So did JESUS . Here is what saves one . BELIEVE YE IN THE GLORIOUS CHRIST JESUS
whom GOD did send .
Do we really believe JESUS , that is the question .
I believe all things He taught as well as the reminders of all that was written by the apostels and left for us to read
in that bible .
I used to have what is known as dead faith . TRUE FAITH in CHRIST PRODUCES A NEW HEART .
For it is GOD who giveth that new heart . And its not a heart that honors sin
and hugs folks to hell allowing them to die in their sin .
Most folks in this generation would say how dare YE judge a man
who is dressing up as a woman and lying with men . YE DONT KNOW HIS HEART .
OH yeah i do . I know his fruits . I KNOW HE DONT KNOW CHRIST .
But today so many say , YE cannot know such things .
DO you realize how many USE the name of JESUS and yet honor sin .
Just like i once did . THEY TOO walk in darkness and do Not the truth .
YET they can lip the gospel verbatum and then raise those rainbow flags and say GOD IS LOVE .
TELL me , DO YOU REALLY THINK they KNOW CHRIST . NOPE .
Cause GOD changed my heart . WHY NOT THEIRS . EXACTLY .
And worse it gets . TILL today we have many who profess CHRIST and yet preach a jesus that accepts
all paths to GOD . RATHER ODD , JESUS DIDNT SEEM TO ACCEPT ALL PATHS TO GOD as VALID .
I mean HE TOLD even the jews who did not BELIEVE ON HIM , YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS . SO how come todays love god and etc
seems to say all is well just hug and do good . I WILL TELL US ALL WHY , cause todays love god is none other than satan
who has transformed the image of god into a god that worships satan and honors sins and all paths .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Pull up a chair and sit down . I have really bad news . CREFLO DOLLAR IS A FALSE MAN my friend . Just reminding cause i seen that name
and i dont wany anyone following such a creature .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I got news . No false person lies all the time . Often they can speak truths as well . Just saying .
atpollard
Well-Known Member
On the one hand ... even a broken clock IS RIGHT twice a day.
On the other hand ... I like to follow the example of the Berean Jews and CHECK WHAT EVERYONE SAYS against scripture.
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
"Don't listen to [whomever]!" always rubs be the wrong way since not EVERYTHING they say and do is evil.
(well Joel Osteen is harder to find a Biblical Truth in his message, but most others have their good and bad moments).
Heck, that is true of the ECFs as well.
Too many people read Acts 2 and stop there......not good...Acts is a transitional book.....at the start it is all about who Jesus WAS and water Baptism to Receive the Holy Spirit.....That was the Truth That Peter had and that uswhat he preached—— it was all good.....Later, as recorded in Acts , Paul came along with a different formula —- it was Given to Him personally by Jesus.....now the Formula was not who Jesus WAS—- it was what Jesus DID! Paul showed how believers were getting the Holy Spirit “ Without” water Baptism ( evidenced by those Speaking in Tongues Without the benefit of Baptism) Paul proved that all one had to do was to * believe* in order to receive the Holy Spirit...by the end of Acts, the consensus was that Paul was correct......Peters plan for Salvation was effective .....the Plan simply changed and Jesus was the One that changed it and it was the Gospel Of Paul That revealed it.....the Doctrine now is not” repent and be baptized” ——- it is “ Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave” ...... 1cor15:1-4
Sounds great but it’s a “False and Perverted” Gospel.......The Gospel That Saves is 1cor15:1-4...... read that and see how your Confusion has you Adding to that Gospel...You had best be very careful .....Paul said that if Anybody ( including even an angel! ) came preaching anything that he did not preach—— let them be “ Accursed!”...... that means damned to Hell.....your “ requirements” should have stopped with “ Believe” ......all the other stuff sounds good but they are all Gospel Additions......buy into them and you become “ Fallen From Grace”...... go farther and start teaching and requiring these additions and you are “ Accursed”......I pray that God opens your eyes to His Truths ....
no doubt about it ......we are to “ DO” many things in this life as God Transform into the Image Of His Son...God wants us to grow and add many things to our Faith once we become Saved..... but to do THAT ( become saved), there is only One Thing That we * must* do ......that one thing is to believe Paul’s Gospel, given to him by Jesus , that one can find in 1cor15:2-4....... if you truly believe it , you will rest in it .....that means no additions to it as in “ Sure, Jesus Saves—- But!” .......the Truth is Jesus Saves with no conditions or “ buts” attached.....
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
John said it . That ye may believe on the glorious Lord JESUS .
When john was writing to the church he made it clear that one must believe in Christ . Yes indeed .
Many folks teach that one cannot truly KNOW they are saved .
But and this is a big butt too , If we dont know we are saved by what CHRIST Did , then what are we truly
trusting in , NOT JESUS . Fact .
John said these things i write unto you that ye may KNOW you have eternal life
There is but one way to have eternal life , and HE has done all that was required .
Now BELIEVE YE IN THE GLORIOUS LORD JESUS and Follow HIM having all hope and all trust in Him .
Now for a BUTT and this is a big ol BUTT too . BETTER be the biblical JESUS we know and love
for if love a jesus which is contrary to THE JESUS , That is bad news and do i mean real bad news .
JESUS left us two commandments which actually fullfill the righteousness of the law itself .
Love GOD with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself .
That would be planted on our hearts if we are HIS . If one loves not CHRIST then they do not love GOD .
And how can we love Christ if we keep not His sayings . THE PROOF of ones love and what they love
Will always be seen by the fruit produced . That my friend is a fact that cannot be denied .
Now let all that draweth breath both praise and thank the LORD .
Its real simple . JESUS alone is what saves , but if our jesus embraces sin , IT AINT JESUS . That is a fact .
The next time a man comes hollering that he loves GOD , yet denies the gospel
HE IS A LIAR . And every other religion DENIES the gospel . THUS as john would say they make GOD a liar .
And two . JESUS dont love sin and would never honor sin , so the next time
a man comes and hollers God is love and yet they walk in darkness embracing and supporting sin
WELL then know ye they are a liar as john once wrote . GOD changes hearts . Lambs hate even the evil
of our own flesh . Always remember that . Lambs dont justify SIN . They hate sin .
You are correct regarding John's baptism except that it would have had to be repeated for the remission of sins similar to the OT laws requiring the constant sacrifices made periodically for atonement. John's baptism was identical to and the forerunner to the baptism noted in Acts 2:38 except that the later one, which was subsequent to Christ's death, was in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and did replace John's. It was a one-time baptism which didn't and doesn't require repeating. Now only repentance is required subsequent to baptism for sins to be removed. It should be noted too that the Ephesians in Acts 19, who were initially baptized unto John's baptism, were re-baptized into Christ upon that being made known to them. And too in this regard, being baptized unto John's baptism means you weren't baptized into Christ and if not baptized into Christ, you're not part of his body which is the church nor are you a Christian, or owned by Christ, so that is also a significant differentiation between the two.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
berean is correct . so lets be a berean my friend .On the one hand ... even a broken clock IS RIGHT twice a day.
On the other hand ... I like to follow the example of the Berean Jews and CHECK WHAT EVERYONE SAYS against scripture.
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
"Don't listen to [whomever]!" always rubs be the wrong way since not EVERYTHING they say and do is evil.
(well Joel Osteen is harder to find a Biblical Truth in his message, but most others have their good and bad moments).
Heck, that is true of the ECFs as well.
I know they are false because i did examine them .
And thus out of great concern and much love i will warn folks .
And as far as being a berean
i would like us to examine what was wrote to a church .
But i have this against YOU , you ALLOW . take a good look at that word ALLOW .
They were allowing something .
YE allow that false prophtess to teach and seduce my people .
Ye ALLOW .
We can fill that name in with anyone who is false who teaches and seduces the people .
And they do teach and seduce the people . So let us be a berean and follow the scriptural example and warn against false ones .
Cause that church was in dire trouble for ALLOWING a false one to teach and to seduce .
Be encouraged aptollard . Just helping to remind us of what the SCRIPS say and teach .
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
It is a fact that the gospel of the NT was not yet in effect in the examples given in the OP, see Hebrews 9:15-17. Rom 1:17 the gospel is the power of God unto salvation and it was not yet in effect in the cases cited in the OP. Salvation today is impossible apart from the gospel (death, burial, resurrection of Christ).
And as I stated earlier in this thread, NT belief requires that one (1) believe that God 'hath raised" (past tense) Christ from the dead (Rom 10:9) and that (2) one be baptized into the death of Christ (Rom 6:3-5) thereby put on Christ in baptism (Gal 3:27):
1) neither of these two things are possible for the cases cited in the OP for Christ had not yet even died, much less been resurrected.
2) if those examples in the OP are how men today are saved, then it means men today can be saved apart from Christ/outside of the body of Christ, be saved by not putting on Christ, be saved apart from the gospel of Christ (death, burial, resurrection).
1 Cor 15:1-4 Paul said he preached the gospel which is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
1) Christ died for every man (Heb 2:9) yet every man will not be saved for every man will not obey Christ (Heb 5:9) thereby taking advantage of what Christ provided on the cross.
2) 2 Thess 1:8 one will be in flaming fire if one does "not obey the gospel of Christ". Therefore the gospel that Paul preached in 1 Cor 15:1-4 must be obeyed. The logical implication of 2 Thess 1:8 is salvation is impossible apart from obedience.
3) there is not a single verse that teaches belief only saves. All the beleif only in the world can never save the impenitent person (Lk 13:3; Rom 2:4-6) will not save the one who will not confress Christ (Mt 10:32-33) will not save one who will not submit to God in water baptism (Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Col 2:11-12; etc)
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Peter and Paul did not contradict each other, they both inspired by the one, same Holy Spirit Who does not contradict Himself. Paul himself was commanded to be water baptized per the great commission (Acts 22:16)just as were the Jews in Acts 2:38 and Gentiles in Acts 10:47-48. Paul preached that baptism was necessary in being saved (1 Cor 1:13; Rom 6:3-7; Col 2:11-12; etc) just as Peter (1 Pet 3:21). In addition to requiring water baptism, Paul required men to repent and confess Christ to be saved, (Rom 10:9-10; Acts 26:20; Rom 2:4-6). Hence both Peter and Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit to preach that ONE faith (Eph 4:5) required one to believe, repent, confess and be water baptized in order to be saved.
No verse says the gospel plan of salvation was ever changed. Hence the examples in the OP cannot be examples of NT gospel salvation, that would be impossible.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
To “ obey” the Gospel is to * believe* it....simple as that
The Gospel has nothing to do with what man does for God.....The Gospel is what God has done for helpless and hopeless man.....everything that was required for Salvation was “ Finished” at the Cross....all we have to do is to “ Cash-In “ on what has already been accomplished.....how does one Cash In? BELIEVE the Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4...... Plus Nothing. I am talking strictly about Salvation alone.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Obedience is DOING what God says to do (Matt 7:21; Lk 6:46) , disobedience/unrighteousness is NOT DOING what God says to do (1 Jn 1:6---the truth is something that is DONE and not something just thought about).
That means believing is obedience, (Jn 3:36), believing is DOING God's will.
Obeying is DOING, it's not just some mental assent of the mind. God commanded Noah to build an ark, obeying God meant Noah must DO what God said not just think about building an ark. Hence Noah's faith (Heb 11:6) included obedience in building the ark whereby his faith was a work itself. WIthout obedience faith is dead and worthless.
-It is the wise man that heareth and DOETH and the foolish man heareth and DOETH NOT Mt 7:24ff
-the ones who enter the kingdom are the ones who DOETH the will of the Father Mt 7:21
-he that WORKETH righeousness is accepted with God, Acts 10:35
-he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, he that DOETH NOT rightoeusness is not of God 1 Jn 3:7,10
-obedience UNTO righteousness Rom 6:16
-one must STRIVE to enter the strait gate Lk 13:24
-Jesus is Lord of those who DO what He says to do Lk 6:46
-Faith that WORKETH by love Gal 5:6
-God will render to every man according to his DEEDS Rom 2:6 (where one will be in eternity is determined by one's DEEDS, Rev 20:13)
The gospel is about DOING what Christ says, not about just sitting and thinking about Christ says...beleif only is totally, completely foreign to the NT gospel of Christ.
========================
2 Thess 1:8 one must OBEY the gospel else be in flaiming fire.
1 Cor 15:1-4 the gospel is the death burial and resurrection of CHrist
Since the gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Christ and the gospel must be OBEYED, then how does one obey the historical facts of Christ's death burial and resurrection (the gospel)?
Rom 6 when one OBEYS God in submitting to baptism, one DIES to sin, the old man of sin DIES one is "BURIED" in a watery grave from which one is "RAISED UP FROM" that watery grave to walk in newmess of life. So it is by means of water baptism that one obeys the gospel of Christ in a death burial and resurrection. Hence the death burial and resurrection is a form of the gospel and it water baptism was that 'FORM' of doctrine which they OBEYED from the heart.
You say one must believe the gospel, yet belief includes baptism. The ones who are said to have "believed" in Acts 2:44 were the ones who obediently submitted to baptism of verse 41.
believing>>>>>>>>>>>>saves Jn 3:16
repentance>>>>>>>>>>saves Lk 13:3
confession >>>>>>>>>>saves Rom 10:9-10
baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves 1 Pet 3:21
Since there is but one way to be saved then belief must include repentance, confession and baptism. Therefore beleif alone, that is, beleif void of repentance, confession and baptism cannot save.
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What was finished at the cross was Christ's earthly ministry and the sacrifice in shedding His blood. Christ's death on the cross was for every man (Heb 2:9) yet every man will not be saved (Mt 7:13) for every man will not obey Christ (Heb 5:9) therefore those who DO NOT do what Christ says are letting what Christ did for them on the cross pass them by.
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I apologize for making simple what you have made so complicated.......I am Obedient to God ...I have done His Will......and what might that be, you ask? I “Believe in the One that He sent”.... Since I have done that, everything else of importance just seems to find a way of taking care of itself.....I guess that is what happens when you become a New Creation with a New Heart —— Paul said that that was “the ONLY THING” that mattered......
You are 100% correct. Those that say belief alone is all that's necessary are ignoring many scriptures that say otherwise and are contrary to God's word.
BAPTISM
Necessity or option?
Baptism is required in order to:
· Be saved
Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”
1st Peter 3:20/21 “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (3:21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost”;
· Wash away/remit sins
· Contact the blood of Christ
· Be added to the Lord’s body which is the church
· Be buried/planted with Him in the likeness of his death thus enabling like resurrection
· Get “into” Him, put on Christ, and become a child of God
· Receive blessings in Him
Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.
Acts 2:41 “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls”.
Acts 2:47 “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord”
Rom 6:3 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death”?
Rom 6:4 “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life”.
Gal 3:26/27 “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”.
1st Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Rom 6:5 “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection”:
Rev 1:5 “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”-----
Heb 10:22 “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of Faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water”.
Col 2:12 “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead”.
Steps to becoming a Christian· (1) Hearing the word/gospel (Rom. 1:16, Mk. 16:15, Rom. 10: 14 thru 17, 1 Cor. 1:21 thru 24, Mat 7:24)
· (2) Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Mk. 16:16, Heb. 11:6, John 12:46)
· (3) Confessing this before men (Rom. 10:9, 10, Rom. 10:13, Acts 8:37, Mat 10:32)
· (4) Repenting of your sins (Acts 2:38, Luke 13:3, 5, 14:47)
· (5) Being baptized (immersed in water) for the remission (forgiveness) of your sins after which, you are added to the Church (above referenced). (Acts 2:38-41, 47)
Steps to becoming a Christian?How about trying it the BIBLE WAY? Believe that Jesus died for your Sins and rose from the dead....that Plus Nothing .....of course, that is just Paul’s way, but what did “he” know? Check out 1Cor15:1-4..... its “Paul’s Gospel” .....it was given to Paul personally by Jesus....Come Judgement Day, it is what God is going to judge you by.....you must believe it and Trust in it to the extent that you REST in it.....To Rest in it means that you do not Add to it ( think , repenting from Sins.......avoiding willful sins.....keeping the commandments.....tithing......church attendance.....living the Sermon on the mount......persevering until the end.....imitating Jesus , etc.....). Adding to it makes you “Fall From Grace “ and you become “ Severed from Christ.....God will see you as “ Disobedient “ and guilty of “ Unbelief”....... your Doctrine is important.....strive to get it right ....act like Heaven and Hell are at stake—- they are.
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