Scripture says "in His Name, the Gentiles will trust" - what will 'Evolutionist Gentiles' trust in Jesus?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hi there,

So "Evolution" has become a sort of black box to me - I don't really know what to say to something that is essentially an unpredictable double pendulum; it neither recognises male and female, nor does it predict survivability, for example. But I started to draw on scripture and think "maybe the answer doesn't have to come from me"; as in, I started to think, maybe there is structure in the Bible, that can serve as an answer, to Evolution: that will be far better than anything I could dream up.

One particular scripture, says "in His Name, the Gentiles will trust". I can lay hold of that, as a promise, specifically for "Evolutionist Gentiles" - there will be something that Evolutionists trust of Jesus, that they won't trust anyone else for (I don't know what it is, but it will be something!). For one thing, they can't complain that Jesus is not a "species", because we have the faith (the "Christian" faith); for another thing, it must be said that His Lineage was a Perfect Lineage. Surely that counts for something!

There is a possibility that the answer, to Jesus' contribution to the Gentile gene pool,, will be simply cold - because Jesus doesn't count that love will necessarily survive all that is hurled at it. In other words, people may just prefer "lawlessness" over any "Christian" answer that requires hard work (basically!). I don't even really know what to guess, myself: is it Jesus living or dead, that makes the difference? Is it a warning or a blessing, that Jesus hung on that cross? These are not necessarily important questions (more-so than any other is important) but they are constructive questions - questions that reveal something about the person answering them.

So I am sort of fielding this here, so that you can pick at it and maybe give me some pointers or suggestions,, as to what angle I should take, if at all: is there a better scripture? is the approach blunt enough, to be inclusive but also constructive? You can see from this that I am taking it seriously - one of the insults made against me is that I am not really attempting to learn "Evolution" - but I just wonder if maybe I am trying to use a shield of faith meant for standing opponents (you know in the sense that they say "you can't take it lying down").

Thanks for your help.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The important thing is that God gives people this strong delusion (called "Evolution") for a reason and they are always going to pervert that reason. There is no desire in God to trap people who have this belief. What is constructive then, is relating to Jesus in some way - that adds to the emphasis of that belief. It is tricky work, because adherents of Evolution can easily trap you if you are tempted by the idea that we came from monkeys - in some gradual way.

The idea that we came from monkeys is not a powerful one, in the same way that taking the mark of the anti-Christ is not enticing, but it is undertaken anyway, because they would rather live a lie than be accountable to God. What is remarkable is that God is forbearing in so many ways, when what is praise to Him is treated as next to nothing. I think that's where most believers get a little angry! We don't expect everything to go our way, but we certainly hold out for greater praise to give to God - in a word we are "deserving"! It is something that God can reward, that's true, but the mystery in the meantime as to what the reward will be, is hard to wait for.

Maybe what we need to do, in the meantime (before an answer to Evolution is discovered) is learn to be patient and understanding - that would make sense. God can empower any time He likes, but it is a ready heart that He longs to answer. If we simply arrive at a conclusion that is in contrast to Evolution, we have not really won anyone over. It will be far better to understand what it is that Evolution wants, and why and how it can be served. After all, waiting for change to come about is an act of patience - undoubtedly something God can reward, even if He gets very little praise. What if Evolution encouraged people to "multi-task"? Would that be a good thing? Sometimes it feels like talking with Evolutionists is an act of multi-tasking in itself (what do you believe, what do they believe, how do they both change - all questioned at once). You can see it takes thought, at any rate.

If you have any thoughts of your own, to add: please share! I have been inspired by my fellow believers before, I don't doubt it will happen more often as time goes on.

God bless.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Maybe we could pit the question about virginity to Evolutionists? Jesus said there are virgins that are born virgins, made virgins, and those that decide to be virigins for the sake of the Kingdom of God: therefore you must be able to be born of Evolution, made of Evolution or decide to be of Evolution, (albeit) for the sake of Nature of God's Kingdom. I don't know, it's just a thought?
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,538
7,580
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hi there,

So "Evolution" has become a sort of black box to me - I don't really know what to say to something that is essentially an unpredictable double pendulum; it neither recognises male and female, nor does it predict survivability, for example. But I started to draw on scripture and think "maybe the answer doesn't have to come from me"; as in, I started to think, maybe there is structure in the Bible, that can serve as an answer, to Evolution: that will be far better than anything I could dream up.

One particular scripture, says "in His Name, the Gentiles will trust". I can lay hold of that, as a promise, specifically for "Evolutionist Gentiles" - there will be something that Evolutionists trust of Jesus, that they won't trust anyone else for (I don't know what it is, but it will be something!). For one thing, they can't complain that Jesus is not a "species", because we have the faith (the "Christian" faith); for another thing, it must be said that His Lineage was a Perfect Lineage. Surely that counts for something!

There is a possibility that the answer, to Jesus' contribution to the Gentile gene pool,, will be simply cold - because Jesus doesn't count that love will necessarily survive all that is hurled at it. In other words, people may just prefer "lawlessness" over any "Christian" answer that requires hard work (basically!). I don't even really know what to guess, myself: is it Jesus living or dead, that makes the difference? Is it a warning or a blessing, that Jesus hung on that cross? These are not necessarily important questions (more-so than any other is important) but they are constructive questions - questions that reveal something about the person answering them.

So I am sort of fielding this here, so that you can pick at it and maybe give me some pointers or suggestions,, as to what angle I should take, if at all: is there a better scripture? is the approach blunt enough, to be inclusive but also constructive? You can see from this that I am taking it seriously - one of the insults made against me is that I am not really attempting to learn "Evolution" - but I just wonder if maybe I am trying to use a shield of faith meant for standing opponents (you know in the sense that they say "you can't take it lying down").

Thanks for your help.
'in his name' is the key. Work that out and it comes together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
'in his name' is the key. Work that out and it comes together.
Right, because it doesn't matter how you change His Name, it still means the same thing: it will never not (mean the same thing).

He said! "There will be one flock and one shepherd" (gospels, from memory)

Once Evolutionists have understood what great reward they had in Jesus, it will provoke a desire in them, to overlook sin and undertake righteousness.

I still think it will be naive, but a captive audience is far easier and lighter to convert, than one that thinks overcoming death is just a matter of progress.

There is still just a niggling doubt, that Evolutionists still think they can work their way to Heaven, I think that's where the Holy Spirit comes in.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I guess the thing is that if Jesus dies to His flesh and gives us to drink His blood, then there is no way for Him to keep us from the Evolution we want.

We should be thanking Him that He made Evolution easier and lighter.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What about this: when I put my faith in Jesus (His perfection) all my mutations became "benign".

Now I am evolving for God (I don't need to delve into my past as a monkey, to serve Him).

I am becoming stronger, more spontaneous and more discerning as I continue to praise Him.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The Holy Spirit inspired me, with the idea that you have to give up something great, when you get to Heaven. If what you have in Heaven is more of what you had on Earth, that is Hell, not Heaven. As Paul said "we live by faith, and not by sight, for if we live by sight, what hope have we got?" (from memory, the letters). This then applies to Evolution.

If all we have in Heaven, is more of the Evolution we had on Earth, that is Hell. If we give up something great when we reach Heaven, our Evolution will be new to us. And if our Evolution is new to us, we have room to rejoice in God, for what it had given us, This is the calling of God, to Evolutionists - that they not covet every thing that Evolution can get them. If you covet what Evolution gets you, you end up in Hell.

And this is the price that Jesus paid, that the sin of withholding die and the resurrection of truing live - that we might live true lives of change, not hindered by spurious claims of being grounded in Earth and unable to change every way possible (that is, having "come from monkeys").

I wonder if you know of something great you could give up? The Father prunes as He wills?
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The problem with "giving up something great, at the end of your life" is that it promotes laziness, in the meantime. Jesus talked about the sons that did not want to go, then did and did want to go, then didn't - I feel like Evolution is in the second category: they say "I could be anything" but they end up just forsaking "whatever". There is power in the word, but you have to use it! Right? Somehow the faith has to learn to prod Evolution, to make sure it is not just sinking into its own ways. Part of that is dying to yourself, but I wonder if there is more?

Anyway, I continue to pray that you be delivered and that you stand before the Son of Man - be blessed.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I worked out, that it is not necessary to mutate DNA, in order to build up resistance, which encourages latent potential.

Latent potential, for the change of kinds, can just occur under pressure on the person as a whole.

There remains no pressure, that will change a species to another species, since latent potential is stored in a way that is unique to the species' design.

Good luck getting the world to admit that (they need prayer), it will take a miracle for them to come to their senses!
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Good luck getting the world to admit that (they need prayer), it will take a miracle for them to come to their senses!

Do you not mean, "To their Knees in repentance." This attribute though is not limited to just the Gentiles, it also applies to those who are "called" by God's Name.

We all need to repent of our transgressions before God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gottservant

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
For me, it has come down to the notion, that I need to repent, for misusing Evolution.

I wonder how many Evolutionists are in the same boat?
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I am at the stage, where I trust God, to give me the adaptive advantage over my life. I realise I can't improve enough to reach Heaven, on my own. The rest is trusting God. Nor do I expect Him to change everything, when He has already done so much. The power is up to God. I guess what I am saying, is that I evolve less on my own, now. The Devil is in a snare all of his own making, when he tries to do it without God. It's been a hard lesson, but I have realised the same.

That said, my perspective is brighter, my wording less non-sensical. I feel like I can define something I want to approach and call out to God, to help me with it. That's a good thing. I still have trouble with monkeys and mutations; monkeys don't become men, but men sin and need to repent, irrespective of monkeys; the same goes for mutations, mutations don't encode adaptations, but mutations can become too much and again, we need to repent. The problem is that these things are put out of reach, because God continues to see value in seeing the faithful separated from the unfaithful.

I think we need to pray for the Evolutionists, that they find proper roots. I wonder if you can do that, with me. Together we can develop a memorable relationship, that outstrips everything that Evolutionists can do on their own. I really mean that; I want the Holy Spirit to fill us with power, something that shocks the world. I feel like God is waiting for people to come to Him, in faith, to reverse the way of the world and set us free. "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free" - Jesus (gospels, from memory).
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I came across the idea akin to the argument that giving directions to a location is not being opinionated, its just a recognition of fact: viz, if you want to change an aero plane's design you don't try to do it in midair, that doesn't make you blinkered, its just an acceptance of restraint.

You can imagine that I imagined all the objections to this argument, that some changes mid-flight are possible, just not all of them and the risk to the flight depends on the skill with which it is done, which is partially true; but fundamentally, you just don't take the right of destroying the flight, because there is physically only one way to get lift - even if flight is discovered on another planet, the discovery will be based on "lift". These two facts then suggest that changing design mid-flight will never be possible, no matter where flight is discovered. Now there is always the Harrier Jet, which can lift vertically, which you would never discover if you ruled out changes to the design - but fundamentally, the place for change is still not in the air.

Maybe, just maybe you get shot from the ground or something, and you patch the bullet hole, but that is not changing the design, that's hoping the design stays what it was - long enough for you to land, at the very least. So you see, the argument stands, that the ultimate context for assessing a design, is how well it flies - that's not survival of the fittest, that's the fitness of survival. You aren't ever going to get greater designs watching mid-air collisions land in a heap, you may be inspired to change design, until the collisions are less, but that is not evolving the design.

Even so, we are beating around the bush, for the test of a thing is how it serves God, not how well does it serve in its own way. We must presume that God wanted to defend His people more readily, such that it was inspired in Man to develop the Harrier Jet. We must also assume that God wanted to be able to move His resources for His people around, which is why Man was inspired to develop greater carrier planes. Never does God make a suggestion that He later regrets and asks to have redesigned. Remember what Jesus said "Not one sparrow falls from the sky and your Father in Heaven does not know it. Of how much more value are you than many sparrows?" There is a lesson here, we should not be quick to think that our integrity is going to be forgotten of God; we should have confidence in praising Him for everything that will come to us, in this life.

Please, if you will, give this some thought.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I have been thinking about the verse that goes "neither swear by the hair on your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black" (gospels, from memory) - that seems to fly in the face of the idea that you can mutate an adaptation, right? Like if I am going to look for a mutation that will make my hair black, Jesus is basically saying "you won't find one". There is promise in this, because it suggests that our design is dependable, that God is able to foreknow who it was that we were going to become.

At the same time, God promises that our children will be able to become more like we expect: Jacob created a speckled flock, Abraham's seed paid tithes. Jesus proclaimed that the sons were free of tax. It just comes back to that fact, even if your life depends on it, you won't find a mutation that will make your hair black. I suppose what that means, is that Evolutionists are lying? That they won't find a mutation that will change their design?

On the other hand, maybe they will discover a mutation that began with their parents? And they will want to pass it on to their children? That comes down to selection pressure; I suppose if we can be sensitive to God, He will tell us, what manner of pressure we are facing? I guess we have to pity those, that can't turn to God for help - in the end the Word that Jesus has spoken will judge them?
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,693
5,574
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi there,

So "Evolution" has become a sort of black box to me - I don't really know what to say to something that is essentially an unpredictable double pendulum; it neither recognises male and female, nor does it predict survivability, for example. But I started to draw on scripture and think "maybe the answer doesn't have to come from me"; as in, I started to think, maybe there is structure in the Bible, that can serve as an answer, to Evolution: that will be far better than anything I could dream up.

One particular scripture, says "in His Name, the Gentiles will trust". I can lay hold of that, as a promise, specifically for "Evolutionist Gentiles" - there will be something that Evolutionists trust of Jesus, that they won't trust anyone else for (I don't know what it is, but it will be something!). For one thing, they can't complain that Jesus is not a "species", because we have the faith (the "Christian" faith); for another thing, it must be said that His Lineage was a Perfect Lineage. Surely that counts for something!

There is a possibility that the answer, to Jesus' contribution to the Gentile gene pool,, will be simply cold - because Jesus doesn't count that love will necessarily survive all that is hurled at it. In other words, people may just prefer "lawlessness" over any "Christian" answer that requires hard work (basically!). I don't even really know what to guess, myself: is it Jesus living or dead, that makes the difference? Is it a warning or a blessing, that Jesus hung on that cross? These are not necessarily important questions (more-so than any other is important) but they are constructive questions - questions that reveal something about the person answering them.

So I am sort of fielding this here, so that you can pick at it and maybe give me some pointers or suggestions,, as to what angle I should take, if at all: is there a better scripture? is the approach blunt enough, to be inclusive but also constructive? You can see from this that I am taking it seriously - one of the insults made against me is that I am not really attempting to learn "Evolution" - but I just wonder if maybe I am trying to use a shield of faith meant for standing opponents (you know in the sense that they say "you can't take it lying down").

Thanks for your help.
You have touched on many things, and I am not sure whether you believe in evolution or not by what you said. But it is clear that you have some question about it, so I will explain:

It is clear enough that God has revealed the age of the earth and how things have come to be as they are, which is a relatively short time compared with what science would otherwise seemingly reveal. This is due to the purpose that the world and universe were created for, which is to bring to light all that is good and evil, light then destroying the darkness by its presence. In which case the difference in what is believed about the age of the earth and evolution becomes a matter of individual expression and what one wants to believe--whether it is what God has said, or what ones own understanding would tell him, believing what is seen and themselves rather than what is yet unseen and the test of what one is prone to believe by their choice being for or against God, which is to say, good or evil.

The measure of history then made manifest by God insisting that it all be revealed, is done in this way, just as It is written from God, saying, "For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

Thus, if one persons says the the earth is but thousands of years old--it is true, for it is God who makes manifest accordingly and not the person. And also, if another person says, the earth is millions, or billions of years old--that too is correct, and yet it shows or reveals a lack of belief in God, meaning that when presented with the opportunity to believe beyond what can be known by a person of limited ability to actually know what is true, they have chosen speculation by that limited ability rather than chosen God. The result being, those who do not choose God, do not see Him. Those are the terms, and why one who has chosen God cannot show one who has not chosen God anything they have already chosen not to see.

More questions?
 
Last edited:

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I get that you think there is a degree of relativity, to what you believe God has done. Also I understand that you believe that this world was created for good and evil to be revealed. I think what is lacking is a sense of context, that Evolution will force your hand, if you don't discern in some way, what it is that is most likely to become an example of excellence (for a given species).

I don't want Evolution to force my hand, but I am afraid it will.

At least, Evolution would force my hand, if it were not for God determining above and beyond Evolution what it is that is asked of me.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,220
6,248
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Hi there,

So "Evolution" has become a sort of black box to me

Does it really matter?

It doesn't matter to God, so, let that be exactly how much it should matter to you.
Learn what is important to God and let that be what is important to you. = FINAL ANSWER.
Otherwise you are wasting your time, and when you waste your time, you are wasting your life.
Why?
Because your TIME is your LIFE, and the Devil knows this, and He'll have you chasing nothing that matters with all your time, unless you learn to think like im showing you how to THINK.

Start NOW.<
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I'm starting to get my head around a response, based on scripture.

First, Jesus says "don't swear by a hair on your head, for you cannot make one white or black" (Matthew 5:36)

Then Jesus says "if you cannot do the least, why are you anxious for the rest?" (Luke 12:36)

All that is needed then, is some expression from Jesus about Word becoming a defence - and we have a verse in Revelation that says "He will destroy the anti-Christ, with the sword that proceeds from His mouth" (Rev 19:21) and a verse that says "the Word that I have spoken, will judge anyone that does not believe" (John 12:28) and again a verse not to cast "your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot" (Matthew 7:6): all this adds up to a question in my mind, that is, "is there anything that would save the fool, from thinking greater foolishness is an escape?" I think fundamentally, when Jesus speaks, He speaks to the fool - the problem we have with Evolution, is that the presumption "more will be said", the exact same problem Paul had with the Greeks, who said "what you said is nothing new" (paraphrase, letters from memory). What is interesting is that the right word, in principle, would get the Evolutionists over the line - that is, from forgetting the word of God, to remembering it (I think that is where the Holy Spirit will have the most influence, in terms of Evolution.

I guess what we want to do is get Evolutionists across the line, before its too late. Evolving in Hell, is never going to get you out of Hell.

Maybe that's it? Maybe the final Word we need is Luke 16:19 "even if you see someone rise from the dead, you won't believe, if you have not believed the Law of Moses and the Prophets"?

It's hard to imagine leaving someone in Hell, but if Word required credibility to be believed, the wise thing to do, would be keep our interpretation of that Word equally credible? If then, they want "Hell" let them have it: we are called to higher, not arguments with fools!?
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
1,815
519
113
45
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Further to my own thinking on this: I think Jesus has a reputation, that what you want to adapt for the species you have, He helps you over the line with.

Like if I want to be more aware, as a Man, Jesus can help with that.

It's the Jesus brand, that is trustworthy.