Seeing Sanctification

[Behold]

So if the Blood Atonement provides eternal “completed righteousness” for ALL MANKIND, that means ALL MANKIND will be saved and end up in Heaven, doesn’t it?

John 3:16 says that God offered His Son to the World.

So, the Salvation that Jesus completed, is offered "to as many who will come'.

Its offered "to all who will believe on Jesus, and be born again".

So, the OFFER of Salvation is UNIVERSAL, but the application of Salvation has a condition.

You must BELIEVE.

"All that believe on the Lord , shall be saved"..

Thats the condition.
God requires FAITH.
We are "Justified by FAITH".

The bumper sticker says...."If you TAKE JESUS, then GOD TAKES YOU".

So, the OFFER of Salvation is always available to the "world"..., but to get it, you have to Receive Jesus by Faith and be born again.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you think love is a law, than you do not know love.

I very much do know love.

But what I am saying is that for those who do not know love, God has commanded them to love Him with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength; and their neighbor as themselves.

This commandment is a law of the Lord; and it shows men to be sinners who do not have His love.

It acts as a law therefore (in the sense of what it says in Romans 3:20, Galatians 3:24, Psalms 19:7 (kjv))

 

[RogerDC]

If you think love is a law, than you do not know love.

O Wise One ... ever heard of the "law of Christ"? If so, what is it?

Furthermore, the word you're looking for is "then", not "than". This primary school error appears in umpteen of your posts.

 

[RogerDC]

There is no self-effort in my salvation

So what do you do when you are tempted to sin? Do you give into sin every time, or do try to resist it with your will-power? If you use your will-power to resist sin, doesn't that mean your salvation involves "self-effort"?

Or do you believe your sins won't affect your salvation and therefore it's ok to sin?

 

[RogerDC]

My Threads are only confusing to baby christians or heretics who are defined regarding their heresy as "Jesus saved me, and now im saving myself

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" - Phil 2:12

Please explain.

 

[justbyfaith]

So what do you do when you are tempted to sin? Do you give into sin every time, or do try to resist it with your will-power? If you use your will-power to resist sin, doesn't that mean your salvation involves "self-effort"?

Or do you believe your sins won't affect your salvation and therefore it's ok to sin?

Not that it's ok to sin; but yes, my sins do not affect my salvation because it is based on the shed blood of Christ and not my performance. See Romans 4:5-8.

 

[justbyfaith]

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" - Phil 2:12

Please explain.

It means not to work for salvation; but to work it out like a problem in math.

Another statement in scripture, that says the exact same thing using different words, is 2 Peter 1:10:

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[RogerDC]

Not that it's ok to sin; but yes, my sins do not affect my salvation because it is based on the shed blood of Christ and not my performance. See Romans 4:5-8.

I don't follow your logic:. If your sins don't affect your salvation, why is it not ok to sin?

Furthermore, if your sins don't affect your salvation, that means a believer who gives into any and all temptation to sin will still be saved- so a believer can lie, steal, rape and murder to an umlimited degree and still be saved. You can live like a devil, but if you believe Jesus died for sins, you will live with God forever? I don't think so.

 

[Candidus]

I don't follow your logic:. If your sins don't affect your salvation, why is it not ok to sin?

Furthermore, if your sins don't affect your salvation, that means a believer who gives into any and all temptation to sin will still be saved- so a believer can lie, steal, rape and murder to an umlimited degree and still be saved. You can live like a devil, but if you believe Jesus died for sins, you will live with God forever? I don't think so.

Though those who teach such things rarely realize that they are teaching that God does not radically save the Believer, but that God converts, regenerates, sanctifies and saves the Believer's sin; thereby making them eligible for heaven.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't follow your logic:. If your sins don't affect your salvation, why is it not ok to sin?

Furthermore, if your sins don't affect your salvation, that means a believer who gives into any and all temptation to sin will still be saved- so a believer can lie, steal, rape and murder to an umlimited degree and still be saved. You can live like a devil, but if you believe Jesus died for sins, you will live with God forever?

Technically and hypothetically, that is true; except for the fact that a believer will not do those things because he is influenced by the Holy Ghost and the love of God is shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5).

It is not okay to sin because every time a believer sins, he or she adds to the suffering that Jesus had to go through on the Cross on their behalf. And therefore, if anyone truly loves the Lord, they will do their best not to sin against Him; because they do not want to add to His sufferings.

But it does not affect our salvation because it is forgiven from the moment Jesus died on the Cross.

Again, read Romans 4:5-8 and really think about what it means for your salvation when you put your trust in Christ and what He did for you on the Cross.

 

[justbyfaith]

Our motivation for obedience as blood-bought saints is not the fear of hell or punishment in the case that we are disobedient. It is that we love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). It is love that motivates is to obey the Lord; and not fear.

 

[Behold]

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" - Phil 2:12

Please explain.

Do you know how to swim?
Can you swim if you are not in the water?
So, as an analogy...... to be in the water, is to be born again.
To learn how to swim is to "work out" how....to be a perfect disciple.
So, we the born again are "IN Salvation".
To be born again into the Spirit of GOD, is to be IN God's family, which is to be "IN" Salvation.
We are within it. We exist as a new creation in a new Kingdom, the Kingdom of God.
Now what we do, is learn how to function IN this Spiritual Kingdom, and this learning is to Grow in Grace and in spiritual knowledge.
Paul defines this as leaving the elemental , baby = thumb sucking stage of repenting and confessing ("from dead works"), and grow UP into the "fullness of the Stature of Christ".... on Earth. = always walk in the Spirit.
THIS process is Discipleship....Its the progress of working out what we are already IN.... so that we become fully mature in our Walk of Faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Behold, would you expound the following:

 

[RogerDC]

Though those who teach such things rarely realize that they are teaching that God does not radically save the Believer, but that God converts, regenerates, sanctifies and saves the Believer's sin; thereby making them eligible for heaven.

I agree. Rev 3:4 describes those believers who are "worthy" of salvation, because they did not soil their garments, which refers to their good works. Their good works are keeping God's commandments - as Rev 12:17 and 14:17 point out - the saints are those who have faith in Jesus AND keep God's commandments.

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree. Rev 3:4 describes those believers who are "worthy" of salvation, because they did not soil their garments, which refers to their good works. Their good works are keeping God's commandments - as Rev 12:17 and 14:17 point out - the saints are those who have faith in Jesus AND keep God's commandments.

But of course, these ones who are deemed worthy, in Revelation 3:4, are yet not considered worthy to take the scroll and open its seals.

 

[RogerDC]

But of course, these ones who are deemed worthy, in Revelation 3:4, are yet not considered worthy to take the scroll and open its seals.

So what? The point is, their faith and good works make them "worthy" or salvation - ie, it is not faith alone that makes them worthy and that our works can mean the difference between going to Heaven or Hell.

 

[justbyfaith]

So what? The point is, their faith and good works make them "worthy" or salvation - ie, it is not faith alone that makes them worthy and that our works can mean the difference between going to Heaven or Hell.

Nope. A man is justified through faith alone apart from works (Romans 4:5-6 (1-8), Titus 3:5 (kjv) (4-7), Ephesians 2:8-9).

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[RogerDC]

Nope. A man is justified through faith alone apart from works (Romans 4:5-6 (1-8), Titus 3:5 (kjv) (4-7), Ephesians 2:8-9).

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Those verses you quote refer to WORKS ALONE - no one is saved by WORKS ALONE. They don't refer to WORKS done by those with FAITH.

And to claim, as you do, that a "man is justified by faith alone" is a blatant and inexcusable denial and contradiction of scripture - James 2:24 says "a man is justified by WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE". JAMES 2:26 says "faith without works is DEAD".
Salvation by faith and works is also implied by other NT writers, such as Paul and John.

Your doctrine of lawlessness is not only inexcusably stupid and ignorant, it is a recipe for DEAD FAITH.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry, @RogerDC,

but you are mistaken.

"ye must be born again."

A man receives the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14); and as the result of that impartation by faith alone, he receives the love of God (Romans 5:5). This love is not in word or in tongue only but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). And it is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within him (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

Works are the sure result of a living faith; but they are not included in faith; and neither are they included in what saves a man (see Romans 11:5-6 (kjv)).

Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

There is no work that any man can do that will earn for him the regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

This is accomplished by grace; through faith alone.

You must appropriate the shed blood of Jesus Christ to your life; and if you try to earn it rather than receiving it as a free gift unto your soul, you will not be able to apprehend this grace that is offered.

Any works that you do apart from salvation given to you by God will not avail for you to save you on your day of judgment.

And if you do works in concordance with salvation give to you by God, the salvation has already been given; so the works also do not save you in that instance.