Self analysis of your Christian witness

[bbyrd009]

How do you mean?

well, my meaning is that if they are not currently reflecting "all things are working together for good, for us," or not "at rest," churches all melting as we speak, etc, i mean however one might best characterize "Western Christians" without adding in any personal bias like i did a minute ago, how could these be helped? If any.

 

[Helen]

Yes. St Francis has taught me a great deal about witnessing.

Do you believe we are really equipped to determine the effectiveness of our witness? I know I have been wrong time and time again in this area. It seems like the more positive feedback i receive, the less receptive the person really is.....

Maybe it is a cop out to say- " Fruit" ..but that is all I can say.
For myself, some that we 'led to the Lord' years ago didn't seem to go on...but who knows.. 40 years later ,we are still in contact with 3 others who became co pastors...one is actually a lead pastor in a large church now in Oz...( now whether he and I would agree on all things bible now...is probably doubtful! ha! He is probably more main-line than me.)

 

[ScottA]

well, my meaning is that if they are not currently reflecting "all things are working together for good, for us," or not "at rest," churches all melting as we speak, etc, i mean however one might best characterize "Western Christians" without adding in any personal bias like i did a minute ago, how could these be helped? If any.

Still not sure I follow. But the west prides itself for intellect. So if science says time is an illusion which scripture has eluded to, then there are no more doors to knock on. If people will not take the truth from God or from science...they will not be helped.

 

[bbyrd009]

Still not sure I follow.

well, characterize the current church if you would, give me a statement that one in the church might make on the State of the Union, so to speak. Maybe @"ByGrace" or @Grams might provide one for us here, too.

Finish this sentence, whomever, if you would; "The church is currently ________." ty
we should be able to get the Fundie and the Hippy pov, the Atheist's is pretty obvious already i guess

But the west prides itself for intellect. So if science says time is an illusion which scripture has eluded to, then there are no more doors to knock on. If people will not take the truth from God or from science...they will not be helped.

hmm, a better reply for the Time thread imo, your chair is an illusion, too, right; but you are still sitting on it!

 

[Helen]

well, characterize the current church if you would, give me a statement that one in the church might make on the State of the Union, so to speak. Maybe @"ByGrace" or @Grams might provide one for us here, too.

Finish this sentence, whomever, if you would; "The church is currently ________." ty
we should be able to get the Fundie and the Hippy pov, the Atheist's is pretty obvious already i guess

hmm, a better reply for the Time thread imo, your chair is an illusion, too, right; but you are still sitting on it!

I am probably a bad one to ask. For I would have two answers. ( as you so often say bbyrd009

First one..visual dead mixture..
Finish this sentence, whomever, if you would; "The church is currently _impotent_______."

Second answer..The real alive Church..
"Finish this sentence, whomever, if you would; "The church is currently _Hidden/waiting_______."

 

[bbyrd009]

"The church is currently _impotent_______."

nice, ok, might be rephrased "the church is currently trying to enforce their laws" at least imo

"The church is currently _Hidden/waiting_______."

unfortunately the analogy will break here, as we usually mean "congregations," not really "Church," right, the concept you are speaking to now. The cong might be more accurately said to be perishing, seems to me?

 

[bbyrd009]

Nonetheless, all things work together for good for those who love the Lord.

amen. be that guy, lol

 

[Helen]

unfortunately the analogy will break here, as we usually mean "congregations," not really "Church," right, the concept you are speaking to now. The cong might be more accurately said to be perishing, seems to me?

Okay yes...speaking of congregations...lifeless and mostly dead.
Takers not givers... Let the dead bury the dead...

Speaking of the Church...alive and well...unseen, watching and waiting , with ears wide open.

 

[ScottA]

Finish this sentence, whomever, if you would; "The church is currently ________." ty

Spiritually blind. Just as Israel was when Christ came the first time in the flesh.

hmm, a better reply for the Time thread imo, your chair is an illusion, too, right; but you are still sitting on it!

On a serious note... It is a [complete] illusion, complete with life-like chairs.

 

[Stranger]

Yes. St Francis has taught me a great deal about witnessing.

Do you believe we are really equipped to determine the effectiveness of our witness? I know I have been wrong time and time again in this area. It seems like the more positive feedback i receive, the less receptive the person really is.....

A Christian is a witness. That is all. You don't look for negative or positive feedback. You just tell what you know to be true. The Holy Ghost is the prosecuting attorney. When you are called to be a witness, you witness, and leave the rest to Him.

Stranger

 

[aspen]

well, characterize the current church if you would, give me a statement that one in the church might make on the State of the Union, so to speak. Maybe @"ByGrace" or @Grams might provide one for us here, too.

Finish this sentence, whomever, if you would; "The church is currently ________." ty
we should be able to get the Fundie and the Hippy pov, the Atheist's is pretty obvious already i guess

hmm, a better reply for the Time thread imo, your chair is an illusion, too, right; but you are still sitting on it!

The church is currently, and has alway been a hospital. Christians are currently in treatment - we are the sick.

 

[amadeus]

I was going to write a similar response.
For many years we 'did' the evangelizing thing. We were told "that is what Christian's have to do." For the most part it was none fruitful ( we 'may have been sowing seeds, maybe someone else reaped later...maybe)

For the last many years we just wait for an 'opening' in conversation...drop a tiny seed and see if there is any interest. That way it is the people who are asking, not us pushing it upon them.
But, if the Holy Spirit is not softening their hearts and preparing the soil...and drawing them...it falls on deaf ears.

I do like the quote which is full of wisdom:-
"Preach the Gospel at all times..... sometimes use words, if necessary"

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase" I Cor 3:5-6

 

[amadeus]

Yes. This is the common answer in response to rejection of our witness by others. I understand it happens sometimes, but it is used to justify every negative encounter. Indeed, it is used to legitimize a bad witness - a lot.

Preaching fatalism, legalism, and igniting shame in others isn’t covered by the ‘world hates you because of me’ clause.

So then allow God in you to make your witness a good witness. Your witness is your life being as Jesus' life was when he walked on planet Earth as a man. How do you get such a witness? You don't getting it by learning a bunch of rules or taking a course on how to be an eloquent public speaker.

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth" Acts 1:8

And so then:
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you" Matt 7:7
And be certain to not ask amiss... [James 4:3]. If it is make yourself something rather than God then it is probably amiss.

And do not require of God that you see the positive results of the witness of your day to day living as Christ lived. People who are hungry and thirsty for God's righteousness will be filled [Matt 5:6] and He may use you to fill them when they are watching you... if your cup is overflowing with Him. But, He may not ever confirm to you in this life of flesh that it happened. What reward do you want? Do you want to bask in it yourself so that others will sing praises of you? That reward is the one that the Pharisees sought and received: the praises of men.

 

[bbyrd009]

Spiritually blind. Just as Israel was when Christ came the first time in the flesh.

There ya go, so see? And they turned out fine, right?

On a serious note... It is a [complete] illusion, complete with life-like chairs.

ha look, i'm fascinated by that stuff, but unless you wanna talk about how you might be influencing the past, i just really see no point in pursuing the pov, i mean how can it develop works unto repentance, do you think?

 

[bbyrd009]

The Holy Ghost is the prosecuting attorney.

yikes.

 

[bbyrd009]

imo this analysis of your witness thing should take into account that the accepted def of "witness" now is prolly not what Paul was doing, in becoming all things to all ppl. I mean bam do as you are led, but see how that is just SiT to ppl imo

19Although I am a free man and not anyone’s •slave, I have made myself a slave to everyone, in order to wins more people.

now, just compare your frame of mind when you are led to witness to Paul's slave, or contrast it i mean, bc if you're comparing you'll have to shut up when you see what their body language is telling you right like almost always

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Um...the Holy Spirit is full of love and guidance, clarity and comfort.
There is no condemnation in the Holy Spirit or anything close to that.
The p-u-r-i-t-y of the Holy Spirit is beyond imagination really...a Helper
and Comforter.

 

[ScottA]

There ya go, so see? And they turned out fine, right?

Are you kidding? They went from being chosen by God to crucifying Him and died in their sins.

ha look, i'm fascinated by that stuff, but unless you wanna talk about how you might be influencing the past, i just really see no point in pursuing the pov, i mean how can it develop works unto repentance, do you think?

It is a matter of recognizing what God has done and is now doing, and of embracing the spiritual future, for the flesh profits nothing.

Time, is the key. It is the way of the world. But the kingdom and the future, is not of the world. So, if we continue in the illusion of time, we pass away. If we renew our mind according to the timelessness of God - if we lose our life according to the world, we gain it according to God.

But these are the times of God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh...which requires the ultimate choice between God and the world (of time). Then comes the end.

 

[bbyrd009]

Um...the Holy Spirit is full of love and guidance, clarity and comfort.
There is no condemnation in the Holy Spirit or anything close to that.
The p-u-r-i-t-y of the Holy Spirit is beyond imagination really...a Helper
and Comforter.

imo Holy Spirit as Prosecuting Attorney is certainly a prevalent perspective, i guess
but i would sure urge these to understand what that means, and seek a better one

 

[amadeus]

Are you kidding? They went from being chosen by God to crucifying Him and died in their sins.
It is a matter of recognizing what God has done and is now doing, and of embracing the spiritual future, for the flesh profits nothing.

Time, is the key. It is the way of the world. But the kingdom and the future, is not of the world. So, if we continue in the illusion of time, we pass away. If we renew our mind according to the timelessness of God - if we lose our life according to the world, we gain it according to God.

But these are the times of God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh...which requires the ultimate choice between God and the world (of time). Then comes the end.

Amen!

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof" Matt 6:34

We concern ourselves too much about tomorrow. This is the way of men. Yesterday is gone, so forget about changing it. Today is our day, the only day with which we need concern ourselves. If there really is a tomorrow for someone, then leave it to them. For us if we doo sleep tonight and wake up again to the natural sun in the sky, will it not still be "today"?

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24

We hear at times the old human saying: "No time like the present". That is a true saying. Whatever memories we have of yesterday or whatever plans we have for tomorrow, the only time we really can take hold of is NOW.