should christians be members of a political party

[Buzzfruit]

Yes. We've somehow forgotten that it is the devil, not God, that offers the kingdom of this world to men, as a temptation.

Satan offered it to Jesus in exchange for Him bowing down and worshiping Satan. But a lot of Christians have failed this test; they think that if they get control of the government they will make it what they would like it to be. But Satan has enough people in the system that will not allow that to happen. And besides that, the Bible never told us that we can make this world the way God would like it without Jesus second coming. It is not God’s plan to make Satan’s system Godly…..but it is His plan for Jesus to take it over and His second coming. In the mean time we should be doing what Jesus said we should be doing.

 

[Jake]

Satan offered it to Jesus in exchange for Him bowing down and worshiping Satan. But a lot of Christians have failed this test; they think that if they get control of the government they will make it what they would like it to be. But Satan has enough people in the system that will not allow that to happen. And besides that, the Bible never told us that we can make this world the way God would like it without Jesus second coming. It is not God’s plan to make Satan’s system Godly…..but it is His plan for Jesus to take it over and His second coming. In the mean time we should be doing what Jesus said we should be doing.

Amen!
You are spot on, brother.
Bless you!

 

[Prentis]

Satan offered it to Jesus in exchange for Him bowing down and worshiping Satan. But a lot of Christians have failed this test; they think that if they get control of the government they will make it what they would like it to be. But Satan has enough people in the system that will not allow that to happen. And besides that, the Bible never told us that we can make this world the way God would like it without Jesus second coming. It is not God’s plan to make Satan’s system Godly…..but it is His plan for Jesus to take it over and His second coming. In the mean time we should be doing what Jesus said we should be doing.

I echo Jake's amen on that!

It is the devil himself who deceives us into thinking we can change the world, if only we could get power in it. The reality is that it will change us, as it has the church whenever it allied itself with it.

 

[HammerStone]

Eh, too much hyperbole going on here. You guys completely mistake getting involved for wanting to change/control the entire world.

It's kinda like we're just supposed to sit idly by; being a Christian should permeate all that we do.

 

[aspen]

Our government is so entrenched in arguing meaningless, yet pathetically, attention grabbing issues - they have made themselves irrelevant.

Christians needs to come together and decide what the real issues are and form independent, grassroot organizations.

 

[Buzzfruit]

I echo Jake's amen on that!

It is the devil himself who deceives us into thinking we can change the world, if only we could get power in it. The reality is that it will change us, as it has the church whenever it allied itself with it.

We can and will change the world but not the way many Christians in this Country would go about it. It says in Revelation that many (millions or billions) people will come out of the Great Tribulation. And I believe it will be the result of telling people about the gospel as well as because of the terrible condition the world will be during that time.


Revelation 7:9-14 (KJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[sup]10 [/sup]And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[sup]11 [/sup]And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[sup]12 [/sup]Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[sup]13 [/sup]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[sup]14 [/sup]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Our government is so entrenched in arguing meaningless, yet pathetically, attention grabbing issues - they have made themselves irrelevant.

Christians needs to come together and decide what the real issues are and form independent, grassroot organizations.

And the thing is the Bible already told us what the real issues are.......preach the gospel and baptize those who believe. The preaching of the gospel is paramount, since it involves the re-establishment of God's kingdom on the Earth. Without God's kingdom on the Earth mankind will never achieve the purpose for God making human beings. So man's system is mankind trying to achieve what they can only accomplish when they are reconnected back to God.

Eh, too much hyperbole going on here. You guys completely mistake getting involved for wanting to change/control the entire world.

It's kinda like we're just supposed to sit idly by; being a Christian should permeate all that we do.

Jesus already gave us a mandate and that mandate is to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God.

 

[Prentis]

The issues are NOT issues of social justice. The issues we deal with are deeper than what any man would dig to. We battle with the powers of the air, dominions and kingdoms of darkness.

Does it touch social justice? Sure, in the sense that when the enemy is unthroned, love reigns and people are treated in love. But it never centers around issues of social justice.

The focus must always be the Kingdom. God fixes our problems, not our strategies.

 

[brionne]

The issues are NOT issues of social justice. The issues we deal with are deeper than what any man would dig to. We battle with the powers of the air, dominions and kingdoms of darkness.

Does it touch social justice? Sure, in the sense that when the enemy is unthroned, love reigns and people are treated in love. But it never centers around issues of social justice.

The focus must always be the Kingdom. God fixes our problems, not our strategies.

the other reason why we christians would not want to be involved in politics is because we do not have the right to rule over other people....only God has that eternal right to rule mankind.

So if we are voting for some bloke to be our ruler, then where does God fit into that picture???

We are in effect denying Gods right to rule when we vote or support human rulerships.

 

[Prentis]

the other reason why we christians would not want to be involved in politics is because we do not have the right to rule over other people....only God has that eternal right to rule mankind.

So if we are voting for some bloke to be our ruler, then where does God fit into that picture???

We are in effect denying Gods right to rule when we vote or support human rulerships.

Good point!

God warned the Israelites that they shouldn't be ruled by a king, yet the people wanted a man to be king.

To want a human to be our king represents our fallen state of wanting to rule ourselves. It's human, but wrong.

We do not seek an earthly kingdom, the same way we do not seek an earthly home, for our home and kingdom are both with God.

 

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the other reason why we christians would not want to be involved in politics is because we do not have the right to rule over other people....only God has that eternal right to rule mankind.

So if we are voting for some bloke to be our ruler, then where does God fit into that picture???

We are in effect denying Gods right to rule when we vote or support human rulerships.

If we do not decide public policy, then the devil will by default.

God is not in the picture here - His throne having been sold by lazy cowardly religious people masquerading as Christians so as to appropriate the considered amount of bon bons......to be enjoyed as they watch the parade pass by.

NOWHERE in the Bible is it written that Christians have the right to abdicate their authority in this world. NOWHERE. Indeed we are commanded to take up the cross and MARCH. Ever hear the hymn "Onward Christian soldiers"? Does that apply to another generation or to us as well?

GOD HATES A COWARD. He who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of the Kingdom of God.

Have you not read of the lazy servant who surrendered his talent unused upon his master's return? That servant will lose his talent and be cast into the outer darkness where there is wailing and knashing of teeth.

Sit idly by then, justify your position of do-nothingness and see what happens when the master returns. You have condemned yourself by your own words.

Yet there is still time to beg His forgiveness and to rise up and ACT on behalf of His kingdom.

Some say that we are ambassadors of the Kingdom of God. If so, then there are a lot of incompetant lazy appointees out there.

Some say that the great apostacy of the church is yet to come. I say it is upon us.

Never in the history of Christendom have there been so many who so adamantly refuse to do their duty to God before the world.

Never in the history of America have so many who claim to be good people sat on their holy duffs and done nothing - except to justify loud and long their right to act like shadows in a country where political darkness is falling upon all.

Never have so many been so comfortable in their righteous declaration to do nothing - except to be offended by those who act.

I find the attitude to be obscene, anti-Christian and unpatriotic.

 

[Prentis]

Unpatriotic for sure!

We are to be foreigners in a distant land. We change the world not by laws and regulations, but by the life of Jesus Christ in us. We are to be different. Let the world do what the world does, it is ruled by the devil anyways, but you, come and follow Christ.

The world has been given over to the devil, we fool ourselves if we think we can change it by the devil's tool, politics. If we go there, he will change US! We need to fight in the spirit. Our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers of the air.

 

[brionne]

If we do not decide public policy, then the devil will by default.

God is not in the picture here - His throne having been sold by lazy cowardly religious people masquerading as Christians so as to appropriate the considered amount of bon bons......to be enjoyed as they watch the parade pass by.

NOWHERE in the Bible is it written that Christians have the right to abdicate their authority in this world. NOWHERE. Indeed we are commanded to take up the cross and MARCH. Ever hear the hymn "Onward Christian soldiers"? Does that apply to another generation or to us as well?

GOD HATES A COWARD. He who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of the Kingdom of God.

Gods kingdom is no part of this world. Jesus did not seek to establish Gods Kingdom in Jerusalem when he was on earth in the first century....he rejected the idea outright because he knew that Gods kingdom will not share its power with imperfect humans.

Let men have their rulerships, they have been failing since they began and they will continue to fail and cause problems for this reason:

Jeremiah 10:23 "...to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."

Have you not read of the lazy servant who surrendered his talent unused upon his master's return? That servant will lose his talent and be cast into the outer darkness where there is wailing and knashing of teeth.

Sit idly by then, justify your position of do-nothingness and see what happens when the master returns. You have condemned yourself by your own words.

Jesus illustration was about Gods Kingdom....not earthly political rulerships. Christians are to work as ambassadors for Gods Kingdom. Paul considered himself an ambassador of the kingdom....he worked to increase the masters belongings by preaching the word and making disciples:
Ephesians 6:18-20 also for me, that ability to speak may be given me with the opening of my mouth, with freeness of speech to make known the sacred secret of the good news, 20 for which I am acting as an ambassador in chains; that I may speak in connection with it with boldness as I ought to speak

Never in the history of Christendom have there been so many who so adamantly refuse to do their duty to God before the world.

our duty to God is to 'Go therefore and preach making disciples of people of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, observing them to obey all that I have commanded you and look, I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things'
What does politics have to do with making disciples and preaching the word of God to the world???
That is a christians mandate...its is a God assigned privilege of service in his Kingdom. The Angels of heaven would love to have the responsibility to do this work, but God gave it to Christians so that we would be busy and have plenty to do in his work.

 

[aspen]

Gods kingdom is no part of this world. Jesus did not seek to establish Gods Kingdom in Jerusalem when he was on earth in the first century....he rejected the idea outright because he knew that Gods kingdom will not share its power with imperfect humans.

Let men have their rulerships, they have been failing since they began and they will continue to fail and cause problems for this reason:

Jeremiah 10:23 "...to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."



Jesus illustration was about Gods Kingdom....not earthly political rulerships. Christians are to work as ambassadors for Gods Kingdom. Paul considered himself an ambassador of the kingdom....he worked to increase the masters belongings by preaching the word and making disciples:
Ephesians 6:18-20 also for me, that ability to speak may be given me with the opening of my mouth, with freeness of speech to make known the sacred secret of the good news, 20 for which I am acting as an ambassador in chains; that I may speak in connection with it with boldness as I ought to speak



our duty to God is to 'Go therefore and preach making disciples of people of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, observing them to obey all that I have commanded you and look, I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things'
What does politics have to do with making disciples and preaching the word of God to the world???
That is a christians mandate...its is a God assigned privilege of service in his Kingdom. The Angels of heaven would love to have the responsibility to do this work, but God gave it to Christians so that we would be busy and have plenty to do in his work.

What I fear Pegg is if the Watchtower suddenly decided to print up stories on how God really wants us to be involved in government - you mind would change in an instant. You would develop all the necessary defenses to support your new position and simply deny that you ever believed differently.

 

[brionne]

What I fear Pegg is if the Watchtower suddenly decided to print up stories on how God really wants us to be involved in government - you mind would change in an instant. You would develop all the necessary defenses to support your new position and simply deny that you ever believed differently.

That would never happen, i can assure you of that. The scriptures are too clearly defined. God wants us to back his kingdom. If the kingdom was not real to us, then we probably would not consider involvement in politics wrong at all.... but the kingdom is very real and we view ourselves as its constituents.

 

[goodshepard55]

So I guess that Christians should just sit back and let the other religions put their rulers in office and start Sharia Law, worship of Buddha or living sacrifices for the witches..and I guess we should just sit back and let the government decide that God has no place in the world and remove the word from our lips...so if guess we sit back and hide in our little world and wait to go to jail for speaking the name of the Lord, for being on Christian boards, for going to church for reading Christian material....Mercy I will pray for Jesus to come get me before it all happens...Cause it is coming fast...

 

[Buzzfruit]

So I guess that Christians should just sit back and let the other religions put their rulers in office and start Sharia Law, worship of Buddha or living sacrifices for the witches..and I guess we should just sit back and let the government decide that God has no place in the world and remove the word from our lips...so if guess we sit back and hide in our little world and wait to go to jail for speaking the name of the Lord, for being on Christian boards, for going to church for reading Christian material....Mercy I will pray for Jesus to come get me before it all happens...Cause it is coming fast...

Did Jesus try to change the system that the Jews were living under? Why did Jesus allow the Romans to continue ruling over the Jewish Nation, that later on sacked and burn the City? There is nowhere in the Bible where we can see Christians trying to make the system Christian. The more people that believe what you believe the worse things get.....and its not for a lack of trying either. I have been saying this before 9/11 and thongs have gotten even worse since then.


It is how we live among unbelievers that has more influence on them than trying to do what you seem to be suggesting.......our spiritual light is what people should see. It is the gospel that Jesus preached that we should be preaching.

 

[goodshepard55]

I never said to make the system Christian...I agree to some degree with you..we should not go into government positions to change it to a Christian system, but we should enter into it to try and stop the takeover from others...try to keep God in our nation...not take Him out of everything...if we are true to God and go into the positions of Senator or Governor or even Mayors or School Officials, we can at least keep the system honest and stop the abuse to our children...stop the rape of our land and belief systems...get the country back in God's hands and hold National Days of Prayer, and stop other religions from invading the White House, stop the murder of unborn babies, stop the selling of innocent children into child porn...We use the God giving talents that we have been given for the good of the nation...Even in politics we can still display the light of Jesus...we do not have to lie, cheat or steal from the people....we do not have to resort to back street politics to get elected....and darling the verses you quoted have nothing to do with trying to save our children or country...or trying to show the Truth of Jesus to the world...there has never been a politician in office that followed Jesus totally...the ones that called themselves Christians, lied and cheated the American people, and sold us out to foreign countries...However, if we don't want to stand up for our country, then we should be quiet and learn to deal with what is coming and what is happening now, and what happened in the past...

 

[us2are1]

This is why. Do you want to waste your time and spin your wheels on a cause that in their case has already been lost? But rather Spend the time building faith in God alone.

Isiah 34
1 Come near, you nations, to hear; And heed, you people! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, The world and all things that come forth from it.
2 For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations, And His fury against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to the slaughter.
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

 

[Buzzfruit]

I never said to make the system Christian...I agree to some degree with you..we should not go into government positions to change it to a Christian system, but we should enter into it to try and stop the takeover from others...try to keep God in our nation...not take Him out of everything...if we are true to God and go into the positions of Senator or Governor or even Mayors or School Officials, we can at least keep the system honest and stop the abuse to our children...stop the rape of our land and belief systems...get the country back in God's hands and hold National Days of Prayer, and stop other religions from invading the White House, stop the murder of unborn babies, stop the selling of innocent children into child porn...We use the God giving talents that we have been given for the good of the nation...Even in politics we can still display the light of Jesus...we do not have to lie, cheat or steal from the people....we do not have to resort to back street politics to get elected....and darling the verses you quoted have nothing to do with trying to save our children or country...or trying to show the Truth of Jesus to the world...there has never been a politician in office that followed Jesus totally...the ones that called themselves Christians, lied and cheated the American people, and sold us out to foreign countries...However, if we don't want to stand up for our country, then we should be quiet and learn to deal with what is coming and what is happening now, and what happened in the past...

Why? Are you that loyal to the system? It’s a system that is not God's. You can't serve two masters....you either put all your effort in one or the other. You cannot be loyal to both at the same time because you will betray one or the other. You cannot force people to believe in God or make them repent by trying to put people you believe that will serve your interest. Just because a President might believe in God does not mean the people are going to believe. God is not interested in outward impression of Godliness....it must be genuine from the mind and not imposed by others.

 

[Prentis]

We don't change things by trying to tell the government what laws to put in. We don't strive with flesh and blood!

If we really lived as the church Jesus Christ came to build, full of love and the Spirit, we would change the world simply by that life. But in North America, we don't, and then we are surprised the world is falling to pieces.

Christ doesn't change the world by laws, that is the most basic thing of spiritual understanding.

Christ changes things by his life in people that is made manifest and that they walk by. I fear that if we do not understand this, we do not know Him, have not experienced him and the powers of the world to come.