Sign Gifts Semi-Safe House

[Paul Christensen]

It’s called heading for apostasy, like other denominations have done.

First spiritual gifts and manifestations of HS power like physical healing, are disbelieved, followed later by disbelief of the rest of the scriptures as being the accurate word of God.

That’s why scripture warns us to in the last days, stay away from churches with a form of Godliness, that deny the Dunamis power thereof.

We need to be careful about condemning churches because of faults and failings. Paul celebrated the faith and commitment of the Corinthian church even though there were issues that had to be dealt with. We should view churches in view of the numbers of godly, Christ-centred people in it, rather than the luke-warm, liberal, gift-ignoring fringe.

 

[Paul Christensen]

@Curtis you have a true gift or calling to teach....I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Very simple to understand and comprehend and is backed with scripture in proper context.
God Bless and Have a great day!

@Curtis Yes, members like you make threads come alive and stay stimulating and interesting.

 

[Curtis]

Well, it was gibberish. But with a lot of hard work she speaks perfectly. To me that is a miracle. I have been around many hearing impaired and deaf people, you can always tell they have a measure of deafness. Her own Doctor said he's never seen anything like it.
Her reading is college level, and a speed reader and speed typist. Miracle I call it.
She use to ask me at times why God wanted her to be deaf. I told her because there are many that can hear, but are deaf to Gods Word...but she being deaf can hear Gods Word...and that is pleasing and a blessing to God.

Except God didn’t make her deaf, nor wants her to remain deaf.

Jesus never once told someone who asked for healing, sorry, The Father wants you sick...

I know Andrew Wommack ministry has seen quite a few deaf people healed, you might contact them about visiting them or one of their satellite Bible colleges in other states other than Colorado, so she can get prayed for.

Blessings.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Except God didn’t make her deaf, nor wants her to remain deaf.

Jesus never once told someone who asked for healing, sorry, The Father wants you sick...

I know Andrew Wommack ministry has seen quite a few deaf people healed, you might contact them about visiting them or one of their satellite Bible colleges in other states other than Colorado, so she can get prayed for.

Blessings.

You are quite correct. God never teaches us anything through sickness. Sickness originates from the devil, who manipulated Eve who in turn got Adam to disobey God, thereby bringing sin, sickness, disease, and death into the world.

This is not to say that all sickness is the result of demonic possession, although Jesus did cast out a deaf and dumb spirit, cured an epileptic by casting out the demon, and straighten up a woman who He recognised as being oppressed by the devil for the previous 18 years. But other sicknesses are medical issues because our bodies are mortal and are wearing out, and can be dealt with by medical intervention.
It is interesting that John Wimber prayed for sick people for 11 years without much result, then suddenly people started getting healed. He asked the Lord why it took so long and the Lord replied, "I wanted to be sure you meant business with Me."
Smith Wigglesworth often spent all night with a sick person, praying without ceasing until the person was healed. Other times it was immediate like the time he was on a streetcar and he saw a man lying on the footpath in agony. He jumped off the streetcar, prayed for him, the man was instantly healed and ran off, and Wigglesworth got back on the streetcar to resume his journey.
Guy Bevington, the early 20th Century Methodist Holiness healing evangelist, would fast and pray for days, even weeks on end until he got a vision of the person being healed, and then he knew that God was going to heal that person. One such person was instantly healed of advanced tuberculosis that way.
The healing evangelists and others who usually fail to get results are those who are wanting to enhance their own reputations in some way. God puts them to the test to see how long they will pray for sick people in obedience to Him without results, so that when they come to the end of themselves and just cry out to God from the depth of their hearts because they have deep compassion for the sick, then the Lord knows that they will give all the glory to Him, because He won't share His glory with those who want to take their share of His glory. It is possible that ambitious people will try to rob God of His glory and use the results to get the praise of men, when it should be God who gets all the praise.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Something the Holy Spirit led me to see the 7 Churches of Revelation...how each was recognized for their faithfulness to do as commanded in scripture and then reprimanded for their disobedience to follow scripture...lol...well that is a teeter-totter of a situation with Him.
But seriously when the Holy Spirit told me to study Revelation my eyes were opened to see things in scripture that I hadn't noticed before.
First I noticed the seven stars and seven candlesticks...
Revelation 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹² And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
…
²⁰ The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Now look at Exodus...these are instructions God gave to Moses concerning the building of His tabernacle.
Exodus 25 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
³¹ And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same.
³² And six branches shall come out of the sides of it; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side:
³³ Three bowls made like unto almonds, with a knop and a flower in one branch; and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch, with a knop and a flower: so in the six branches that come out of the candlestick.
³⁴ And in the candlestick shall be four bowls made like unto almonds, with their knops and their flowers.
³⁵ And there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the candlestick.
³⁶ Their knops and their branches shall be of the same: all it shall be one beaten work of pure gold.
³⁷ And thou shalt make the seven lamps thereof: and they shall light the lamps thereof, that they may give light over against it.
³⁸ And the tongs thereof, and the snuffdishes thereof, shall be of pure gold.
³⁹ Of a talent of pure gold shall he make it, with all these vessels.
⁴⁰ And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

There are genuine believers in the Catholic and Mormon churches who have given their lives to Christ and trust completely in His finished work on the Cross. So just because a church in general can have shonky doctrines, it doesn't mean that everyone who belongs to the church are as shonky in their personal faith in Christ.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Not finished....
“And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:”
— Zechariah 4:2 (KJV)
“And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”
— Revelation 4:5 (KJV)

Now I hope I can articulate this well...I fully believe the 7 Churches addresses 7 stages the church movement would go through before His Return...church ages as some call them...
And as each church was addressed each had a different greeting and a different closing...I believe it is because of how the church was progressing...

I'm not ignoring you. I'm off to bed. Will come back in the morning.

 

[Heart2Soul]

There are genuine believers in the Catholic and Mormon churches who have given their lives to Christ and trust completely in His finished work on the Cross. So just because a church in general can have shonky doctrines, it doesn't mean that everyone who belongs to the church are as shonky in their personal faith in Christ.

I had more to add

 

[Heart2Soul]

Sorry @Mayflower...I didn't intend to derail your thread...I will start a thread and move my posts.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Here is a link to my article refuting the views of a well known cessationist:
http://www.personal-communication.org.nz/CESSATIONISM+Mayhue.pdf

It looks well done!

I'm loaded down, atm, so no time to go through it, but post this again whenever the discussion comes up here, especially if you eventually engage a Cessationist in debate on the subject. I'd love to go through it with you and maybe deal with some sections and exchange thoughts on it.

Thanks again for posting it.
- H

 

[Mayflower]

So I found this pretty amazing and thought I would share. A couple weeks ago, I had this day flash that my username was in royal blue on CF. I thought that was strange, because only administrators have usernames like that and that is something that wouldn't interest me... Today though, a moderator pm'd me and said I was an encouragement and asked if I ever considered being a CF ambassador or CF angel. I think basically, they pray for people/welcome people.

I told her I was going to wait. To be honest, this change has been fairly recent in me. I really feel changed/ transformed. I am different. But I want this transformation permanently baked into me as my identity rather then just having the honor of a title. I want to encourage others now, because Bible says to for one, but also because I feel like Holy Spirit has shown me how to truly minister to others' hearts and my own heart. I want the title inside of me, so that if I ever find a royal blue badge under my name, it is just another natural day in my Christian walk. Praying for people and welcoming people shouldn't be something you just apply for, but as a Christian, something we already are. Just took me a long time to find out what I should be doing on the forums...

 

[Mayflower]

And these things do feel natural and uplifting now! Titles always kinda bring a pressure too though, and right now I think I have just been enjoying doing things different. That make sense?

 

[Heart2Soul]

So I found this pretty amazing and thought I would share. A couple weeks ago, I had this day flash that my username was in royal blue on CF. I thought that was strange, because only administrators have usernames like that and that is something that wouldn't interest me... Today though, a moderator pm'd me and said I was an encouragement and asked if I ever considered being a CF ambassador or CF angel. I think basically, they pray for people/welcome people.

I told her I was going to wait. To be honest, this change has been fairly recent in me. I really feel changed/ transformed. I am different. But I want this transformation permanently baked into me as my identity rather then just having the honor of a title. I want to encourage others now, because Bible says to for one, but also because I feel like Holy Spirit has shown me how to truly minister to others' hearts and my own heart. I want the title inside of me, so that if I ever find a royal blue badge under my name, it is just another natural day in my Christian walk. Praying for people and welcoming people shouldn't be something you just apply for, but as a Christian, something we already are. Just took me a long time to find out what I should be doing on the forums...

Oh wow praise God! Be faithful in the smaller things and He will promote you to bigger things...

 

[amadeus]

It’s the United Pentecostal Church that teaches that, not to be confused with regular Pentecostals

They are also modalists, aka, Jesus only - that believe there’s only Jesus, who plays the roles of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I worked with a guy in UPC, and we had a lot of debates on the trinity vs modalism .

Oh, and they’re very legalistic - can’t have a TV, women can’t wear makeup, must wear long hair and long dresses, jewelry is forbidden, etc.

I have been there and done a lot of that. When God called me and my wife to Him in 1976 it was first into the UPC. I learned many good things, including to read the Bible for the first time in my life in the UPC.

Bible reading was an uncommon thing and a sometimes a discouraged thing when I was growing up as a Catholic. I was with the UPC and two other similar groups for 11 years. God taught me many good things among those people... so don't generalize too much into the negative. Who does not have some negative? Yes, there were some things not so good, but I can bear testimony to some very good people among them. The black family that introduced us to God is still in my experience the best example of people striving to live for God 24/7... They were younger than us and still serve God in California today. [We have been in Oklahoma since 1987.]

What a mighty God we serve!

 

[Curtis]

That was been known to happen on more occasions than we like to admit. I think it was St Francis of Assisi who had the same experience when he wanted to communicate the gospel in a foreign country, and felt moved to speak in "tongues" and found the people responding to him in the same language.

It was enough of a common experience for tongues to be understandable languages to influence early Pentecostal missionaries to go to place like China and try to give them the gospel in tongues. Some succeeded, but most failed to make themselves understood. There is the instance of a woman who miraculously given the Italian language to share the gospel, and kept the gift for the rest of her life. When the Holy Spirit has a reason for communicating the gospel, He enables people to speak understandable languages they have never learned.

That’s why there’s three types of tongues, with three different purposes.

 

[Curtis]

in the NT some prophesied rather than spoke in tongues,

Prophesy is also an unknown tongue but it is interpreted because it’s a message to a congregation.

There’s the unknown tongue never understood by any man, but when it’s a prophetical unknown tongue spoken aloud in church, someone else is given the interpretation.

 

[Curtis]

God has said all He is going to say to us in the written Scriptures, therefore any discernment or words of wisdom and guidance must have been already written in the Bible somewhere.

That’s absolutely untrue.

Prophecy spoken aloud in church and interpreted, isn’t for doctrinal purposes, but is a message from God concerning issues pertaining to congregations or individuals regarding specific circumstances.

The Bible can’t tell a church “cancel plans to move the church to the suburbs, and remain where you are” as just one example.

 

[Curtis]

I have come to an interesting conclusion. Cessationists accuse Charismatics of putting faith in experiences instead of God's Word. But searched the Scriptures to find any clear indication that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit were meant to be limited to the Apostolic Age and I couldn't find any; but I found many references in Scripture that the supernatural gifts were available for the good of the whole body of Christ and not exclusively for the use of the Apostles, but distributed by the Holy Spirit to members of the body of Christ as He wills.

So, I have come to the safe conclusion that Charismatics, who are Sola Scriptura, and who are committed to the authority of God's Word, are the ones who are putting their faith in the Scriptures, while Cessationists, who have no Scripture at all to back their claims, are relying on the experiences which do not include the supernatural gifts of the Spirit.

Isn't that what Jesus said - that the hypocrites are telling others what to do, but they are doing the same things themselves? In the same way, Cessationists are accusing Charismatics of relying on experiences, when they are themselves relying on their own experiences in the absence of any Scriptural foundation.

That’s very true, in fact scripture says the opposite of cessationism, for instance after Peter in Acts 2 says what was being witnessed there was God pouring out His spirit in the last days, and prophecy would manifest, along with dreams and visions, per the prophecy in Joel - goes on to say, repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, and YOU will receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, and in verse 39 says how long the gift will be available: this gift is for YOU, your children, ALL those afar off, even to as MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL.

Thus as long as God is calling anyone, the same Holy Spirit gift given on Pentecost, is still in effect,
This is the same DUNAMIS power from the HS Jesus said the 120 would receive when the HS came on them, Acts 1:8, and that gift is in effect until Jesus returns, and spiritual gifts are no longer needed.

 

[Paul Christensen]

That’s absolutely untrue.

Prophecy spoken aloud in church and interpreted, isn’t for doctrinal purposes, but is a message from God concerning issues pertaining to congregations or individuals regarding specific circumstances.

The Bible can’t tell a church “cancel plans to move the church to the suburbs, and remain where you are” as just one example.

I would only accept a prophecy like that if it was a confirmation concerning planning that was already being done and a confirmation from the Lord was needed. But if a prophecy came unexpected when no plans were being made to relocate, I would treat that as very suspect and would definitely question it.
Confirmation type prophecies are in accordance with Scripture because the prophet Nathan told David to "go and do what is in your heart". Of course the prophet had to change it when the Lord decided that David was not the man to build the Temple.

Do, if someone came to me with a prophecy to do something specific, I would reject it if the Lord hadn't told me first. We have the indwelling Holy Spirit for guidance, so guidance prophecies are not required.

Although, when the Holy Spirit said, "separate to me Paul and Barnabas for the work I have called them", it could have come as a prophetic word, but it would have been as confirmation for what Paul and Barnabas knew in their hearts already.

We must always be careful about prophecies that deal with church issues and direction, because the gift can be misused in the hands of a "power and control" person who uses it to exert his will on the church by stamping God's "authority" on what he wants the church to do. In my time in Charismatic churches I've seen that more than once.

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis you have a true gift or calling to teach....I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Very simple to understand and comprehend and is backed with scripture in proper context.
God Bless and Have a great day!

Thanks! GB back.

 

[Curtis]

We need to be careful about condemning churches because of faults and failings. Paul celebrated the faith and commitment of the Corinthian church even though there were issues that had to be dealt with. We should view churches in view of the numbers of godly, Christ-centred people in it, rather than the luke-warm, liberal, gift-ignoring fringe.

I’ve read your comments on Jesus’ words to the seven churches, and while He commends what is commendable, what I see as the main message to the seven churches involves multiple warnings that they must repent, and that the church at Sardis was dead, though they thought they were alive, and most of them had defied their white garments, which scripture says represents being righteous, and needed to become overcomers so that He won’t blot their names from the book of life.

Then most of them in another church hadn’t just defiled their white garments, but lost them completely and were naked while thinking they were doing just fine, and were in need of nothing.

Three out of seven churches were doing ok, the rest were told to repent of various wrongs

Anyway, from what I’ve seen, the denominations that today are liberal apostates that disbelieve scripture and embrace leftist socialist policies and political correctness above the Bible, first started down the slippery slope to full apostasy, by embracing cessationism and having a form of Godliness, but denying the (Dunamis) power thereof, which we are warned to stay away from in 2 Timothy 3:5.

Shalom.