Soul sleep

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Phoneman777

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Heb 13:8 said:
So why obtain by robbery when He doesn't need to. Harpazo means obtain by robbery. Why obtain by robbery while in our resurrected bodies.
1) "Robbery" is hardly an appropriate translation of "harpazo", which actually means "to seize" or "to snatch" b/c "robbery" suggests a degree of injustice on the part of the one who lays siege to a thing when that might not necessarily be the case. Would you argue that the act of a father rescuing his child from a kidnapper is "robbery"? I think the answer is obvious, friend. Neither would any argue that God's reclamation of what Satan stole from Adam - his dominion and his posterity - is unjust either. God will eventually seize from Satan what is legally and rightfully His.


2) Regarding 1 Thessalonians 4:14 KJV, I'm disappointed that you did not acknowledge that "bring with Him" is part of a Hebrew Chiasm, and if left to mean as you claim that "God will bring with Him on His long awaited return trip to Earth the saints which are now in heaven", such interpretation destroys the chiasm. However, the perfectly plausible interpretation that "bring with Him" is to mean that God will "bring the saints forth from the tomb in like manner as God brought Jesus forth from the tomb" leaves the chiasm perfectly intact. I realize that it is here where most part with objectivity, for the chiasm demands that the saints be brought with Jesus out of a tomb on Earth, and not brought from heaven on a celestial road trip, and since this text is one of the main "proof texts" for the idea that the dead are conscious and in heaven already, most will ignore the whole idea of the conflict with the chiasm their interpretation leads to and will continue with their subjective interpretation. I hope that this will not be the case for you, friend
 

Heb 13:8

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Phoneman777 said:
1) "Robbery" is hardly an appropriate translation of "harpazo", which actually means "to seize" or "to snatch" b/c "robbery" suggests a degree of injustice on the part of the one who lays siege to a thing when that might not necessarily be the case. Would you argue that the act of a father rescuing his child from a kidnapper is "robbery"? I think the answer is obvious, friend. Neither would any argue that God's reclamation of what Satan stole from Adam - his dominion and his posterity - is unjust either. God will eventually seize from Satan what is legally and rightfully His.
Underline: Rapture on the Day of the Lord. He comes as a thief to nonbelievers. Thief = Robbery

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

Matt 24:42-44 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

1 Thess 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will
 

OzSpen

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Phoneman777 said:
Friend, I have to say that there are absolutely no Biblical reasons to support the idea of consciousness in death whatsoever. If you believe you have some, please present them one at a time and we can discuss them. I think we all agree that "sleep is a Biblical metaphor of death" based on what Jesus and David both said. But, to argue that this metaphor leaves room for the idea of consciousness in death is fully unwarranted in the light of what the rest of the Bible says unequivocally and irrefutably about death. In light of the following texts and many others that could be presented, we see that "sleep" is actually an excellent metaphor for death, but certainly not consciousness in death:

The dead know absolutely nothing
The dead possess no memory
The dead do not have the ability to experience emotion
The dead do not possess knowledge
The dead do not possess wisdom
The dead do not possess the ability to lay plans
The dead do not have anything to do with anything that takes place here under the heavens which are now.
The dead do not praise God
The dead do not perceive anything

As you can see, the above list speaks of death as having nothing to do with consciousness at all, which is exactly what a deep, sound, full, dreamless night's sleep brings - in both circumstances identical conditions prevail - people who experience that deep, sound, full, dreamless night's sleep do not engage in anything on the above list - it is only when they awake that they do so, friend, and only in the resurrection will they commence to do so as well, but certainly not while they are yet dead now.
Phoneman,

This is filtered reasoning. You have left out biblical material that contradicts your view.

Note Matthew 10:28, “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” It obviously indicates immortality if it cannot be killed, even though the exact words, “immortal soul,” are not mentioned. A soul that cannot die by being killed lives on and on forever. Just as the word, “trinity,” is not used in the Bible, the doctrine of the Trinity is clearly taught.

Jesus’ words are that we are not to “fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul” but that we should “fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” In this verse, “soul” must refer to that part of a human being that exists after death. There is no other way around this verse. It cannot equate “soul” with “person” or “life.” It would be ridiculous to make it mean “do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the life,” or “do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the person.”

This verse has no meaning unless there is some aspect of human beings that lives on after the body is dead. When Jesus speaks of the soul and body he is obviously speaking of the entire person. The word “soul” represents the entire non-physical part of a human being.

Now to the second part of the verse: “fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).” What does “destroy” mean? It is the Greek apolesai (aorist, active, infinitive of apollumi). Apollumi in the active voice means “ruin, destroy” (Arndt & Gingrich Greek lexicon).

If I backed my car over one of my child’s favourite toys, I may have ruined or destroyed it. The crumpled toy was still there to be ruined. This does not mean that I annihilated it. I did not obliterate it from existence. It was still present but of no further use as a toy. This is similarly what the Greek means by “apollumi.” The body and soul in Gehenna have been ruined. We know from other places in the NT that this experience of the soul of unbelievers in hell is called, “everlasting punishment” (Matt. 25:46) punishing that goes on forever. Everlasting punishment does not equate with annihilation.

Does the soul continue to interact between physical death and the resurrection? These verses teach that:

(1) Unbelievers:
  • In hell are conscious and in torment (Luke 16:23);
  • Are “under punishment [after death] until the day of judgment” (2 Peter 2:9);
(2) Believers:
  • Are immediately in Paradise at death (Luke 23:43);

  • Long for a heavenly dwelling (2 Cor. 5:2);

  • Are away from the body [at death] and are at home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8);

  • Deaths are gain (Phil. 1:21) and they depart at death to “be with Christ” (Phil. 1:23);
  • Who are martyred souls “cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord . . .” (Rev. 6:9-11). They were conscious after death so that they could speak to the Lord.
Believers will be like Christ after their physical death (see passages such as Rom. 8:29; 1 Cor. 15:49; Phil. 3:21; 1 John 3:2). They will be with Him (eg John 14:3; 2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 3:18; 4:17, etc.). They will share Christ’s glory (Rom. 8:18, 30; 2 Cor. 3:18; 4:17, etc.); they will share Christ’s reign (2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 2:26-27; etc.). As children of God, in that intermediate state, we will enjoy perfect fellowship with Christ (see Rev. 21:3,7). We will be worshipping Him (Rev. 7:15; 22:3) and be before His face (Matt. 5:8; 1 Cor. 13:12, etc.)

Dr. Robert Morey (2006) provided these verses as “the primary NT texts that refute soul sleep”: Matt. 22:23-33; Lk. 16:19-31; Lk. 23:43; Acts 7:59; 2 Cor. 5:1-10; Phil 1:21-25; Heb. 12:18-24.

There is consciousness after death for both believers and non-believers. That's biblical.

Oz
 

Phoneman777

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OzSpen said:
Phoneman,

This is filtered reasoning. You have left out biblical material that contradicts your view.

“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
Why does God refer to the First Death as “sleep”? Because it's TEMPORARY. The Soul ceases to exist, but this circumstance is temporary, and thus the Soul is not “destroyed” in the strictest sense, for God will raise it up in order to stand in the Judgment. The Second Death is PERMANENT – a death from which there will be no resurrection – and it is only then that the Soul can truly be said to be “destroyed”.



Now to the second part of the verse: “fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).” What does “destroy” mean? It is the Greek apolesai (aorist, active, infinitive of apollumi). Apollumi in the active voice means “ruin, destroy” (Arndt & Gingrich Greek lexicon).
Yes, “destroyed” means “destroyed” - which the Soul will be in the Second Death.


In hell are conscious and in torment (Luke 16:23)
You are attempting to substantiate a doctrine on an uninterpreted parable, which is a violation of hermeneutics. No different than if I insisted that trees talk because of Judges 9. Luke 16 is a parable.



Are “under punishment [after death] until the day of judgment” (2 Peter 2:9)
You're using a corrupted version based on the corrupted “Critical Text” Greek. The Textus Receptus says, “...to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished” and there's nothing here about any present on-going punishment – that is RCC “Purgatory” theology, which also is non-Biblical.



Are immediately in Paradise at death (Luke 23:43)
Neither had Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that Friday. Jesus declared Sunday morning that He had “not yet risen to My Father” Who is in Paradise, and the thieves' legs were broken when they were taken down off the Cross as the sun was setting and Friday was turning into Sabbath to prevent their escape due to their having been removed from the Cross – the only place that thief went on Friday was captivity, not Paradise! Jesus' death on Friday made the breaking of His legs unnecessary, according to Scripture.

So, what's the solution? The word “today” is modifying the verb “I say” which PRECEDES it, and not the verb “will be” which follows it. In the Septuagint, the word “yom” is found modifying the verb which follows it only about 50 times, but modifies the preceding verb ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY TIMES, so the majority use of the word alone is strong evidence that Jesus was simply promising, “I say unto you today while I am hanging here looking like anything but a Savior of the world – YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE”. Even this condemned thief understood that His request, if granted, would not happen that day by his very own words “...when Thou comest into Thy kingdom”, which of course happens in the last day - the entire Christian world today is found more ignorant than a common thief who probably could not read or write (epic facepalm).
This interpretation harmonizes with all other texts, while yours introduces total confusion.
 

Phoneman777

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OzSpen said:
Phoneman,

This is filtered reasoning. You have left out biblical material that contradicts your view.

Long for a heavenly dwelling (2 Cor. 5:2);Are away from the body [at death] and are at home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8)
Again, with the corrupted version. The Textus Receptus says, “...confident and willing to be absent from the body and present with the Lord” which in no way suggest that the one immediately follows the other. The evidence right there in the middle of the passage, which you and everyone else have missed, points to the opposite conclusion, namely the references to “naked” and the “unclothed” when the dead are without a body! Taken together, and not cherry picked, Paul is saying in no uncertain terms throughout this entire passage that he, as well as the rest of the saints, want to be absent from this body of suffering, skip the intermediate period of lying “NAKED” AND “UNCLOTHED” in the grave unconscious and without a body, and jump to the glory and splendor of being in the presence of the Lord. That's why Paul said that they were all “groaning, not that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon that mortality might be swallowed up of life”.



Deaths are gain (Phil. 1:21) and they depart at death to “be with Christ” (Phil. 1:23)
Serously? The text says nothing about consciousness in death at all or immediate presence with the Lord at death.



Who are martyred souls “cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord . . .” (Rev. 6:9-11)
Do you need to be reminded that Revelation is a symbolic book, and that the red blood cells which drain down under the altar of a sacrifice cannot cry out any more than Abel's blood cried out to God? It's a symbolic reference to an act of injustice crying out for God's justice. This is a common “proof text” that holds no water.

This is a blatant misrepresentation of Scripture. It says nothing of a conscious intermediate state here – nothing of the kind. These are references to the period after the Second Coming when the dead saints are all resurrected.


As children of God, in that intermediate state, we will enjoy perfect fellowship with Christ (see Rev. 21:3,7). We will be worshipping Him (Rev. 7:15; 22:3) and be before His face (Matt. 5:8; 1 Cor. 13:12, etc.)
Yes, I agree that all believers will experience the above after the resurrection, not the day they die.

Believers will be like Christ after their physical death (see passages such as Rom. 8:29; 1 Cor. 15:49; Phil. 3:21; 1 John 3:2). They will be with Him (eg John 14:3; 2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 3:18; 4:17, etc.). They will share Christ’s glory (Rom. 8:18, 30; 2 Cor. 3:18; 4:17, etc.); they will share Christ’s reign (2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 2:26-27; etc.).
Yes, we will be, but in the resurrection, not the day we die.

Your "proof texts" are at best loose interpretations of texts ("you will be with Me in paradise", "absent from the body and present with the Lord", etc.) I have offered solid, irrefutable testimony from Jesus, Solomon, David, Job, etc., yet you have no answer to these, and I suspect it is because these verses cannot be gainsaid.

Notice, I have not answered your “proof texts” by ignoring them and appealing to other texts, many of which I can readily add in addition to the ones already listed, nor have I accused you of “filtered reasoning”, as you did. I have dealt directly with them, now please kindly explain to me why my list of texts is illegitimate this time - please explain how the dead know things when Solomon plainly says the dead know not anything...please explain how the dead saints can be in heaven right now praising God when Hezekiah and David both claim that the dead praise not the Lord.
 

Phoneman777

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Heb 13:8 said:
Post #382.
I believe the Bible teaches that the Second Coming and the Gathering of the Saints to Himself happen simultaneously on the same day, not two events separated by 7 years. In other words, when Jesus comes and descends to a "low Earth orbit" and circles around the Globe as every eye beholds Him, the dead and living saints arise with new bodies to Him, the wicked living drop dead to join the wicked dead for the 1,000 year sleep from which they will resurrect and stand in Judgment, and absolute destruction and mayhem trail Jesus as He sweeps across the sky collecting His saints.
 

Heb 13:8

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Phoneman777 said:
I believe the Bible teaches that the Second Coming and the Gathering of the Saints to Himself happen simultaneously on the same day, not two events separated by 7 years.
I believe rapture occurs inside the 70th week, after sixth seal when great trib is cut short, not before 70th week.

Phoneman777 said:
the wicked living drop dead to join the wicked dead for the 1,000 year sleep from which they will resurrect and stand in Judgment,
Nonbelievers aren't gonna drop dead at the end of 70th week. They're gonna be a part of the 1,000 years. Zech 14:16-19

Phoneman777 said:
and absolute destruction and mayhem trail Jesus as He sweeps across the sky collecting His saints.
The trumpets and bowls occur over a period of time in the latter half of the 70th week, not instantly. The fifth trumpet lasts five months alone Rev 9:5, 10.
 

Phoneman777

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Heb 13:8 said:
I believe rapture occurs inside the 70th week, after sixth seal when great trib is cut short, not before 70th week.


Nonbelievers aren't gonna drop dead at the end of 70th week. They're gonna be a part of the 1,000 years. Zech 14:16-19


The trumpets and bowls occur over a period of time in the latter half of the 70th week, not instantly. The fifth trumpet lasts five months alone Rev 9:5, 10.
I would refer you to Daniel 9:27 KJV where it says that Messiah would be killed "after" the 69 weeks. By this verse, we see that He was not killed during the 69 weeks, but "after" the 69 weeks, so that means He was killed during the 70th week.

Those who are honest can see that we can't just transport the 70th week to the end of time if Jesus was killed during the 70th week, because that would mean we'd have to transport His crucifixion to the end of time, which is ludicrous.
 

Heb 13:8

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Phoneman777 said:
I would refer you to Daniel 9:27 KJV where it says that Messiah would be killed "after" the 69 weeks. By this verse, we see that He was not killed during the 69 weeks, but "after" the 69 weeks, so that means He was killed during the 70th week.

Those who are honest can see that we can't just transport the 70th week to the end of time if Jesus was killed during the 70th week, because that would mean we'd have to transport His crucifixion to the end of time, which is ludicrous.
I do believe 70th week is future. Thank you for response.
 

Phoneman777

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Heb 13:8 said:
I do believe 70th week is future. Thank you for response.
You're welcome, friend. Yes, many believe the 70th week is future. It's actually a new teaching that began to be preached around 100 years ago. It first appeared in the 16th century during the early stages of the Protestant Reformation. Luther and the rest of those great men identified from Scripture the Papacy as the "little horn" Antichrist system which was to arise among the "ten horns" barbarian nations which themselves arose out of the ashes of the fallen Roman Empire - the fourth beast - in the 6th century.

The Papal response was an attempt to deflect those Protestant fingers of accusation away from themselves by having two Jesuit priests approach the Bible to to formulate alternative explanations of Scripture - rather than approaching the Bible in humility and earnest desire for the Holy Spirit to reveal truth whatever it may be, they went to it with a preconceived truth (that the Papacy was not the Antichrist) and then proceeded to chop up the Scriptures until they had their "proof" they needed. These two priests authored "Jesuit Preterism" and "Jesuit Futurism". "Preterism" is a not so popular idea that says essentially the Antichrist arose in the 1st century and was Emperor Nero and all the prophecies of Scripture, including the Second Coming, are fulfilled. "Futurism" or "Left Behind" theology was and is by far the more popular idea which says that the Antichrist is one man who will come at the end of time during "the last 7 years of tribulation".

The Reformers soundly rejected these two ideas, and continued to preach 'Protestant Historicism" for 300 years, up until about 100 years ago when Jesuit Futurism began to gain the ascendancy and sadly today pretty much everyone believes Jesuit Futurism as legit doctrine, but it originally came up from what Luther calls "the Roman Dunghill of Decretals". All the Protestant churches used to teach that the 70th week was firmly planted in the past and that all the elements of Daniel 9:25-27 KJV were fulfilled by JESUS CHRIST, not Antichrist. A casual examination of church history will confirm all this, but no one preaches it today because no one wants their "last 7 years of trib" ideas challenged - I mean, first the church disappears and then the 7 years of bad stuff starts happening everywhere, so why would anyone want to let go of such a comforting belief by accepting that those 7 years are past and that the Antichrist is here and now and now we've got to go back to the drawing board and find out who it is, what it's number is, and most importantly, what it's Mark is so that we can avoid having anything to do with it?
 

Heb 13:8

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Phoneman777 said:
All the Protestant churches used to teach that the 70th week was firmly planted in the past and that all the elements of Daniel 9:25-27 KJV were fulfilled by JESUS CHRIST, not Antichrist.
But we still transgress and break the law, there's still sin, wickedness on earth. Everlasting righteousness doesn't exist right now, and where are we anointing the most holy place? These things will come to fulfillment at the end of 70th week on mount of olives. The 70 weeks are about the jews.

Dan 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
 

Heb 13:8

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Phoneman777 said:
You're welcome, friend. Yes, many believe the 70th week is future. It's actually a new teaching that began to be preached around 100 years ago. It first appeared in the 16th century during the early stages of the Protestant Reformation. Luther and the rest of those great men identified from Scripture the Papacy as the "little horn" Antichrist system which was to arise among the "ten horns" barbarian nations which themselves arose out of the ashes of the fallen Roman Empire - the fourth beast - in the 6th century.

The Papal response was an attempt to deflect those Protestant fingers of accusation away from themselves by having two Jesuit priests approach the Bible to to formulate alternative explanations of Scripture - rather than approaching the Bible in humility and earnest desire for the Holy Spirit to reveal truth whatever it may be, they went to it with a preconceived truth (that the Papacy was not the Antichrist) and then proceeded to chop up the Scriptures until they had their "proof" they needed. These two priests authored "Jesuit Preterism" and "Jesuit Futurism". "Preterism" is a not so popular idea that says essentially the Antichrist arose in the 1st century and was Emperor Nero and all the prophecies of Scripture, including the Second Coming, are fulfilled. "Futurism" or "Left Behind" theology was and is by far the more popular idea which says that the Antichrist is one man who will come at the end of time during "the last 7 years of tribulation".

The Reformers soundly rejected these two ideas, and continued to preach 'Protestant Historicism" for 300 years, up until about 100 years ago when Jesuit Futurism began to gain the ascendancy and sadly today pretty much everyone believes Jesuit Futurism as legit doctrine, but it originally came up from what Luther calls "the Roman Dunghill of Decretals". All the Protestant churches used to teach that the 70th week was firmly planted in the past and that all the elements of Daniel 9:25-27 KJV were fulfilled by JESUS CHRIST, not Antichrist. A casual examination of church history will confirm all this, but no one preaches it today because no one wants their "last 7 years of trib" ideas challenged - I mean, first the church disappears and then the 7 years of bad stuff starts happening everywhere, so why would anyone want to let go of such a comforting belief by accepting that those 7 years are past and that the Antichrist is here and now and now we've got to go back to the drawing board and find out who it is, what it's number is, and most importantly, what it's Mark is so that we can avoid having anything to do with it?
I have a question. If people are still dying inside the 1,000 years then wouldn't transgression, sin and wickedness still exist. If that's so then these things below will not be fulfilled at the end of the 70th week. Therefore the 70 weeks of Daniel has past?

Dan 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
 

Heb 13:8

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Phoneman777 said:
How did you arrive at this conclusion?
Underline: I can agree the 70 weeks have passed. Well, do you live in Jerusalem or do the Jews?

Dan 9:25 "Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
 

Phoneman777

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Heb 13:8 said:
I have a question. If people are still dying inside the 1,000 years then wouldn't transgression, sin and wickedness still exist. If that's so then these things below will not be fulfilled at the end of the 70th week. Therefore the 70 weeks of Daniel has past?

Dan 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed
People have erroneously concluded that the verse is saying "at the end of the 70 Weeks transgression will finish and sin will have ended". Then, they conclude that since transgression and sin still exist, the 70 Weeks have not yet ended. That is a faulty conclusion. The text is actually an explanation of the "WHY" the 70 Weeks are determined - not of a "WHEN" transgression and sin will end.

Read it again: "70 Weeks are determined...to finish the transgression and make and end of sin."

The action - "70 Weeks are determined" - is stated first and then is immediately followed by a statement for the reason for the action - "to finish the transgression and make and end of sin".
 

Phoneman777

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Heb 13:8 said:
Underline: I can agree the 70 weeks have passed. Well, do you live in Jerusalem or do the Jews?

Dan 9:25 "Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
You are correct that the 70 Weeks had to do with "thy people (Jews) and thy holy city (Jerusalem)".

Daniel's mention of the restoration of Jerusalem and the temple had to do with the return from Babylonian exile. That was accomplished already, as well as a subsequent destruction of that restoration at the hands of teh Romans in 70 AD.
 

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Phoneman777 said:
You are correct that the 70 Weeks had to do with "thy people (Jews) and thy holy city (Jerusalem)".

Daniel's mention of the restoration of Jerusalem and the temple had to do with the return from Babylonian exile. That was accomplished already, as well as a subsequent destruction of that restoration at the hands of teh Romans in 70 AD.
I also believe the seals, trumpets and bowls also have past fulfillment.
 

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Take your time with this. I know it's a lot..

Rev 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

70th Week - If God put an end to sin at the end of the future 70th week, that would mean the New Earth would start right away. We would have to remove the 1000 years from scripture.

Third Temple - Why didn't Paul use the word hieron to describe the temple in 2 Thess 2...John 2:14 (hieron), 2 Thess 2:3-4 (naos),

1 Seal - Crown translated wreath...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-seal-of-revelation-6/
2 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-seal-of-revelation-6/
3 Seal - In those days, oil and wine...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-seal-of-revelation-6/
4 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-seal-of-revelation-6/
5 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-seal-of-revelation-6/
6 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-seal-of-revelation-6/
7 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-seventh-seal-of-revelation-8/

1 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
2 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
3 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
4 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
5 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-trumpet-of-revelation-9/
6 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-trumpet-of-revelation-9/
7 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-7th-trumpet-of-revelation-11/

1 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-bowl-of-revelation-16/
2 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-bowl-of-revelation-16/
3 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-bowl-of-revelation-16/
4 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
5 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
6 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
7 Bowl - Future lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/revelation-16-7th-bowl-judgment/
 

Phoneman777

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Jan 14, 2015
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Heb 13:8 said:
Take your time with this. I know it's a lot..

Rev 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

70th Week - If God put an end to sin at the end of the future 70th week, that would mean the New Earth would start right away. We would have to remove the 1000 years from scripture.

Third Temple - Why didn't Paul use the word hieron to describe the temple in 2 Thess 2...John 2:14 (hieron), 2 Thess 2:3-4 (naos),

1 Seal - Crown translated wreath...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-seal-of-revelation-6/
2 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-seal-of-revelation-6/
3 Seal - In those days, oil and wine...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-seal-of-revelation-6/
4 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-seal-of-revelation-6/
5 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-seal-of-revelation-6/
6 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-seal-of-revelation-6/
7 Seal - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-seventh-seal-of-revelation-8/

1 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
2 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
3 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
4 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-trumpet-of-revelation-8/
5 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-trumpet-of-revelation-9/
6 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-trumpet-of-revelation-9/
7 Trumpet - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-7th-trumpet-of-revelation-11/

1 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-first-bowl-of-revelation-16/
2 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-second-bowl-of-revelation-16/
3 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-third-bowl-of-revelation-16/
4 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fourth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
5 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-fifth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
6 Bowl - History lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-sixth-bowl-of-revelation-16/
7 Bowl - Future lesson, symbolism...http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/revelation-16-7th-bowl-judgment/
I checked this site's interpretation of how Christ, and not the antichrist, confirmed a covenant for seven years, Very detailed and comprehensive, but they left out one critical proof text: "How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and then was confirmed to us by them that heard Him." Hebrews 2:3 KJV

Christ confirmed the Covenant for 3 1/2 years while He was among us in Person and the continued confirming it through "them that heard Him", the apostles, for the remaining 3 1/2 years.