Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[1stCenturyLady]

· Tongues as a sign to unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 14:22) This is the phenomenon that took place on the day of Pentecost. (Acts2:4-11) It occurs when the Holy Spirit transcends the intellect and all language barriers by empowering a believer to preach, teach or testify about Christ in some language of man of which the believer himself has no knowledge.

Hi Pearl,

Remember to read verse 23 with verse 22 to see that when unbelievers hear tongues they will think you are crazy. It is because of 1 Corinthians 14:2. That is the unbreakable rule about all our types of tongues. It is not a positive sign, but a negative sign. With that in mind, then verse 23 makes sense. It confirms an unbeliever in their unbelief - just like Cessations who call tongues "gibberish" or other such mocking words.

What happened on the Day of Pentecost is all of the Jews received a dosing of the Holy Spirit and each man could UNDERSTAND the tongues in his own language. (Except for the mockers who were probably Romans). The key verse in Acts 2 is verse 8: 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? For them the supernatural ability was in the hearing. I've seen this happen where someone who wants to love God and come to Jesus can interpret tongues.

 

[Dropship]

The fact remains, Paul wisely said-
"If the whole church speaks in tongues,won't a newcomer think you're out of your minds? But if you all preach, he'll worship God" (1 Corinthians 14:24)
"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you preach" (1 Corinthians 14:5)

So not only do tongue-speakers make Christians look nutty to outsiders, but they're also disobeying Paul, both of which are naughty step offences..
Paul didn't ban tongues, so in context it's perhaps best done in private.

 

[Dropship]

The Holy Spirit GIFT of "Tongues" (as well as all the other Giftings) is completely voluntary..

If the gift of tongues is good for people, why doesn't God confer it on ALL christians?
Food for thought- perhaps he only confers it on people who he thinks NEED it in the hope that it'll strengthen their faith?

 

[Dropship]

..God had a plan for my life as a teacher, and cleansed my mind of all those lies.

Did you tongue-speak in front of your pupils?
If not, why not?..

 

[Hidden In Him]

If the gift of tongues is good for people, why doesn't God confer it on ALL christians?
Food for thought- perhaps he only confers it on people who he thinks NEED it in the hope that it'll strengthen their faith?

It was conferred on the entire early church, including the twelve disciples, on the Day of Pentecost.

If their faith needed strengthening, not sure it excludes anyone today either. Like

 

[Dropship]

As Jesus said, if our faith is already "as small as a mustard seed" that's all we need, so why does anybody need tongues on top of it?

 

[Tommy Cool]

The fact remains, Paul wisely said-
"If the whole church speaks in tongues,won't a newcomer think you're out of your minds? But if you all preach, he'll worship God" (1 Corinthians 14:24)
"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you preach" (1 Corinthians 14:5)

So not only do tongue-speakers make Christians look nutty to outsiders, but they're also disobeying Paul, both of which are naughty step offences..
Paul didn't ban tongues, so in context it's perhaps best done in private.

You are correct regarding tongues…the primary purpose and benefit if for the believer private prayer life. However, if it is done in meetings, that person should also interpret or as Paul states it is unprofitable and will be as a foreigner.


But if you take into account, all of chapter 14 it gives a wider explanation of tongues.

The Corinthian believers (church) had some challenges in various areas and needed to be reeled in with correct doctrine regarding speaking in tongues in meetings.

In 1Co 14 Paul, by revelation from Jesus Christ is setting them straight on the worship manifestation (tongues, interpretation, and prophecy) which were conducted in group meeting, most often in homes.

What you neglected to do was give all of verse 1Co 14:5 …which reads

I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

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1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and by course; and let (that) one interpret.

1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, (if he does not believe to interpret) let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

 

[Tommy Cool]

If the gift of tongues is good for people, why doesn't God confer it on ALL christians?
Food for thought- perhaps he only confers it on people who he thinks NEED it in the hope that it'll strengthen their faith?

It is available to all

 

[TEXBOW]

It was conferred on the entire early church, including the twelve disciples, on the Day of Pentecost.

This is what I struggle with. It seems to me we mix spiritual prayer with the ability to speak unknown languages for the purpose of spreading God's word. It seems that on the day of Pentecost when they were speaking in known languages of the region that indeed was a manifestation of gift of the Holy Spirit. I guess one could say it was a gift from another gift..... I'm not to hung up on gift or manifestation but I do think we mix in the gift of speaking other languages or interpretation of those languages with utterances (spiritual tongues) given by the Holy Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Did you tongue-speak in front of your pupils?
If not, why not?..

I don't have the second type of tongues from 1 Corinthians 12. Nor do I have interpretation of tongues for the profit of all, so no. I only have the one given to all born again Christians, same as you. I'm just not afraid to use it in prayer and praise to God. But I had to shed the chains of unbelief like you must if you want to enjoy a closer relationship with God where you can hear His voice.

Besides, my pupils are all pastors that can also speak in tongues. We come together to study the Bible and interpret it correctly. They had a lot to unlearn, and I'm helping them see the Author's interpretation as He revealed it to me over the past 10 years.

 

[Tommy Cool]

This is what I struggle with. It seems to me we mix spiritual prayer with the ability to speak unknown languages for the purpose of spreading God's word. It seems that on the day of Pentecost when they were speaking in known languages of the region that indeed was a manifestation of gift of the Holy Spirit. I guess one could say it was a gift from another gift..... I'm not to hung up on gift or manifestation but I do think we mix in the gift of speaking other languages or interpretation of those languages with utterances (spiritual tongues) given by the Holy Spirit.

What happened on Pentecost was a phenomenon. Some people misrepresent that as a way to speak other languages …or to communicate with others from another country… Logically that wouldn’t make sense.

If it was true, and I visited another country and spoke in tongues so they could understand…. I wouldn’t be able to understand what the heck I was telling them…besides, that misconception was proven inaccurate. …. Has it happened …where someone who was speaking in tongues was understood by someone from another region or someone who knew the language …Yes, but the person speaking did not understand.

The whole thing with Pentecost being the original outpouring… was a phenomenon that God provided for those in the Temple as an evidence of what had just taken place…No place in the other accounts in Acts, where they spoke in tongues, did that take place. And in 1 Corinthians Paul makes it clear to those speaking in tongues ….if you are not going to interpret ……shut up. (in the vernacular)


The gift/manifestation thing wouldn’t bother me too much except, the ramification of words has had a big impact on believers.

A gift has to be given and you don’t have it unless someone gives it….A manifestation is simply an operation of something you already have…

I have run across many believers over the years….. who had a longing to speak in tongues or operate other manifestation (but mostly speak in tongues) They were hampered by their understanding that God did not find them worthy enough to give them the gift. After spending a short time with them and explaining the difference …every one of them spoke in tongues….and the joy that filled their lives is unspeakable………so words do have an impact.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If the gift of tongues is good for people, why doesn't God confer it on ALL christians?

Could be that many want to ARGUE ABOUT IT, instead of desiring it and ASKING FOR THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT (to use Pentecostal vernacular).

I Asked for it - and I Speak in tongues (privately) among many other things. Simple as that.

Food for thought- perhaps he only confers it on people who he thinks NEED it in the hope that it'll strengthen their faith?

OR more likely, The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is there for any Born Again Christian that desires it, and doesn't attempt to rationalize it away.

 

[JunChosen]

In short, if you are born again, you have the GIFT of holy spirit which you, by your free will, can MANIFEST power form on high (Luke 24:49) into the material world.

It is true every believer receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion. However, Luke 24:49 is different in that the Apostles were to receive the power of the Holy Spirit so as to begin to evangelize the world! Hence, Pentecost happened. This is the same idea as to what we read in Acts 1:8.

In the end, everything we have from God is a gift. I realize that.

Then why write this OP? What is your purpose/motive? To let us know YOU think you have a better understanding of scriptures? Let me assure you, you do not!
I'll tell you at the end of this post why I believe your theology is flawed.

The problem with much teaching that tongues is a gift, leads people to think it is a special thing, only those who were singled out by God.

That's exactly correct!!! Reason that the receiver of tongues must interpret or someone in close proximity that has been given the gift of interpretation, otherwise if there is no interpreter the receiver of tongues must remain silent, and let him speak to himself, and to God. Yes! The gift of tongues is given to a designated person only.

But that's not right. Paul, by revelation from God, said he wished every Christian spoke in tongues, so it MUST be available for all Christians to speak in tongues.

Yes! All Christians are capable of speaking in tongues. That's a given! But only individuals in a church setting are given the "mysteries."

If you want to quote scriptures, make sure you understand what they convey.
Your understanding of 1 Corinthians 12:7-10 is flawed. Verse 7 must be read in light of verses 8-10. Note, that these verses speak of each gift received by individuals only. NOT as a group or we will come under the scrutiny of 1 Corinthians 14:23 if all spake at the same time. as I have asserted above.

Perhaps you could imagine that the devil would absolutely loose his mind if all Christians MANIFESTED that power from on high?

James said, "Resist the devil and he shall flee from you."

As promised, here is why I believe your theology is flawed.
Any time any one begins with the premise that Jesus Is Not God, will almost always draw their conclusions on that presupposition.
The Jews who are monotheistic Jews believe that God is the only Savior of the world and that is true, [Isaiah 43:11] yet we know without a doubt that Jesus came as the savior. In other words, Scripture is pointing and leading us to that part of Scripture that Jesus indeed without a doubt IS GOD!

And there lies your incapability of understanding Scripture. You will rake every doctrine of the Bible and weigh it upon the presupposition that Jesus is just a man and not God.

In Isaiah 3:14 God said to Moses "....I AM hath sent me unto you." Put your finger here and go to John 8:24 which reads:
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I Am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
Jesus, you see is the Great I AM and therefore IS Eternal God.

Shall I continue or will the above suffice.

 

[Dropship]

Guys and gals, I (and no doubt others) WANT to understand the tongue thing, but nothing any of you have said here explains it adequately, as my questions have largely gone unanswered, namely-
1- When a person does it, is it a message for the speaker alone or for the speaker to also pass on to other people?
2- How can the audience know what it means?
3- If the speaker interprets it into english for them, why didn't he/she simply speak english in the first place?
4- How does tongues benefit the speaker or anybody else?
5- Are non-tongue speakers spiritually inferior to speakers?

 

[Enoch111]

As Jesus said, if our faith is already "as small as a mustard seed" that's all we need, so why does anybody need tongues on top of it?

In order to divide Christians. Tongues have divided Christians into "Tier One" and "Tier Two" Christians. The Pentecostals claim that those who speak in tongues are "Spirit-filled" and have received the "baptism IN the Spirit". So the corollary is that all other Christians are not "Spirit-filled" hence second class citizens in the Kingdom of Heaven.

The irony is that the Lord Jesus Christ -- who was continuously filled with the Holy Ghost throughout His life on earth -- spoke only Aramaic and Hebrew(His own native languages). And Paul plainly told us that he would rather speak five words of prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues! But modern tongues are not even what Paul was referring to.

Scripture makes it crystal clear that the spiritual GIFT of glossais (languages) -- not glossolalia -- was given as a "sign" or miracle in order to prove to unbelieving Jews that the Gospel was indeed from God (Acts 2). That was prophesied by Isaiah and Paul refers to that prophecy (1 Cor 14:21-23):In the Law [the Tanakh, the OT] it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. [Isaiah 28:11,12] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

It is noteworthy that Joel's prophecy (quoted by Peter in Acts 2) does not even mention tongues (only prophecies, visions, and dreams). And it is not the Jews who were converted, but the apostles and disciples to whom this gift was given on the day of Pentecost, AD 30. And even though thousands of Jews were saved on that day (and subsequently), Israel as a nation remained unbelieving, and eventually was cast out of the land of Judea.

 

[JunChosen]

1- When a person does it, is it a message for the speaker alone or for the speaker to also pass on to other people?

Most definitely. In fact, the message is given to an individual and if he does not understand the message then there must have an interpreter in close proximity to the speaker so that the words spoken will edify the whole congregation. If no interpreter then the speaker must keep silent and let him speak to himself, and to God [! Co.14:28

2- How can the audience know what it means?

The message must be interpreted.

3- If the speaker interprets it into english for them, why didn't he/she simply speak english in the first place?

Let us say the message was in English but it was not understood [God speaks in parables and without a parable He did not speak]. Mark 4:34. In this case, there must be in close proximity someone who has the gift of interpretation.

4- How does tongues benefit the speaker or anybody else?

Because it is a message of import from God Himself.

5- Are non-tongue speakers spiritually inferior to speakers?

No, not at all. All the children of God stand on the same ground!

I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Hidden In Him]

Guys and gals, I (and no doubt others) WANT to understand the tongue thing, but nothing any of you have said here explains it adequately, as my questions have largely gone unanswered, namely-
1- When a person does it, is it a message for the speaker alone or for the speaker to also pass on to other people?
2- How can the audience know what it means?
3- If the speaker interprets it into english for them, why didn't he/she simply speak english in the first place?
4- How does tongues benefit the speaker or anybody else?
5- Are non-tongue speakers spiritually inferior to speakers?

I could give you a full reply to all five, but 1 and 2 would take going through extensive scripture to explain. #5 is a simple no, but if you a wanted proof text for why from scripture itself that would also take some work.

#3 and #4 are easy to address, however, so I'll explain those for you here: The answer is because they are direct utterances from the Spirit of God Himself rather than the speaker. Prophecies also come forth as utterances of the Spirit, but in the language of the speaker, which means there is a possibility they can be "tempered" if you will, where the prophet tries to "make better sense" of the utterance and so alters things when he shouldn't. The key component of tongues is that they will completely and 100% bypass the mind of the speaker altogether, and thus they represent pure utterances of the Spirit, devoid of all interference, and this is precisely why they benefit others. So long as they are interpreted by the self same Spirit that gave them, both the speaker and those standing by receive from the Spirit of God Himself rather than man.

 

[Dropship]

..Because it is a message of import from God Himself...

What exactly does God say through the tongue-speakers or is it a secret?
Anyway I thought he'd already said it all through Jesus?

 

[BarneyFife]

You are both hung up with semantics, but only you post to provoke. Why do you always want to come off like that?

There is more provocation going on here than is clearly manifest, Sis.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Guys and gals, I (and no doubt others) WANT to understand the tongue thing

I your case, I not sure that you want to do anything but disparage it, and convince yourself (and others) that it's nothing but garbage.

1- When a person does it, is it a message for the speaker alone or for the speaker to also pass on to other people?

Depends on the circumstances. God's not a "One Trick Pony". If the tongue happens to be one understood by somebody listening, then the message is for THEM (the Acts 2 phenomenon). If you're alone, then you are "edifying yourself" (1 Cor 14:4). If you Speak in tongues in a MEETING, then it's mostly an "attention getter" for the subsequent Interpretation.

2- How can the audience know what it means?

Either by understanding it in their own language, or through the gift of interpretation

3- If the speaker interprets it into english for them, why didn't he/she simply speak english in the first place?

SInce you're so much WISER than God, you might want to try to instruct HIM to do thing YOUR WAY, instead of his.

4- How does tongues benefit the speaker or anybody else?

We already covered 1 Cor 14:4, so it's up to YOU to tell us why being spiritually "edified" is a BAD thing. And you'll have to explain to us why speaking something directly FROM the Holy Spirit is bad also (1 Cor 14:14)

5- Are non-tongue speakers spiritually inferior to speakers?

Nope. IF a person is Born Again of the Holy Spirit, and infilled with HIM (as ALL born again Christians are), then they're PERFECT before God, and Heaven bound. CHristians ALL have the Holy SPirit indwelling them, and leading them into TRUTH.

HOWEVER, Jesus ALSO told the boys to hang around Jerusalem until they were "ENDUED" (externally clothed) with POWER from on high, as recorded in Acts 2. SO - NO MAJOR PENTECOSTAL DENOMINATION ties the baptism in the Holy Spirit (acts 2 issue) with SALVATION. People in the OLD Testament were also empowered in the same way - Samson, Isaiah, David, etc.

In my pwn case, after I was "Baptized in the Holy Spirit", (after being a Born again Christian for a decade), I DID (and still do) "Speak in tongues" in the private sense, but the REAL PRACTICAL benefit of it was, Besides being gifted to occasionally Interpret Tongues, and speak Prophesy, was an immediate calling and burden to TEACH home groups, which I wouldn't have been able to do - before. The Acts 2 "baptism in the Holy Spirit", after all, is POWER in ministry. and "Tongues" is the scant "tip of the iceberg", so to speak. Some folks are natural "teachers", but when somebody who ISN'T a "natural", suddenly is called to teach for years, then something else is going on.

So if you reject, rationalize away, oppose the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" you're also simply throwing away everything that's part of the package, to your own loss.

Are there"Problems", phonys, fakes, con-men/TV preachers? Sure!!! (remember the "Wheat and the Tares") The the presence of the FALSE, has no bearing on the existence of the REAL.