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Speaking In Tongues

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by iakwe2002, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    What happened in Acts? The righteous by faith OT saints (dead) whose sin had been passed over (Romans 3:21-25) finally had their sin atoned for and the Paradise side of Hades/Shoel was taken to the third heaven by Jesus Himself (Ephesians 4:7-10) including the thief on the cross after Jesus preached to the spirit's for three days (Acts 2:31). Up until that time, no one could be in God's presence because their sin had not yet been atoned on the cross (John 3:13). See Luke 16:19-31. The unbelievers then and now are still in Hadies/Shoel waiting for their final judgment.2 Peter 2:9 Then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, Revelation 1:18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. OT saints still living were still due the promise of the Holy Spirit, the agent of the Spiritual Baptism of which Jesus was the prophecied baptiser (Matthew 3:10-12). There was no more Hades for the righteous by faith, OT saints who were to die. They needed to be born again. There was now a death and ressurection to be baptised into. Hense, the birth of the Body, the Church. This transitional period in Acts stems from, and leads right into God's punishment for the nation of Israel that the signs pointed towards. When the transition ended, of God dealing only through the nation of Israel to "all nations and all peoples", there was one last punishment/dispersion in AD 70. The last one. No more need for the sign gift of God's punishment to the Nation of Israel anymore. More on the transtion and why ther was tongues spoken...
    God had passed over the sins committed by OT saints until Christ's substitutionary death on the cross. By their faith they were saved, but they had to waite and were kept in the paradise side of hades until their sins were atoned for on the cross. See the link below. Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.OT SAINTS KEPT IN THE PARADISE SIDE OF HADESRead the link, it's worth your time and will lay out a foundation for you to understand this part. This is not the complete picture, but should help to get a basic understanding of what was happening.HE LED THE CAPTIVES FREE AND GAVE GIFTS TO MEN http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/eph4v9.htm WHAT HAPPENED IN ACTS? You cannot be born again without being baptized into Jesus' death and raised up with Him, this is what it means to be born again. This spiritual baptism is done by Jesus with the Holy Sprit, hence the term baptism with the Holy Spirit. Nobody in the OT could be born again because there was no death or resurrection to be baptised into. They were kept in the paradise side of Hades. They (OT saints) needed to wait for Jesus to die on the cross to pay for there sins (Romans 3:25-26) before they could go to heaven (John 3:13, Ephesians 4:7-9). The OT saints still living needed to be upgraded (Born again), It was due to them because they had faith, but to be baptised into the Body of Christ by Jesus with the Holy Spirit, they first needed for Jesus to die on the cross and pay for their sins, then to be glorified, sitting at the right hand of the Father. Then, and only then could He send the Helper, the Holy Spirit, the Agent of Baptism so they could be Baptised into His death and resurrection, i.e. born again. After that transition of bringing OT saints to NT standards, The norm is "we are all baptised with one Spirit into one Body" (1 Corinthians 12:13). This happens the moment we believe. The difference between the nature of the relationship between the Holy Spirit and saints from the OT to the NT can be seen in John 14:16-18.The Church is the Body of Christ. Ephesians 1:23, Colossians 1:24 Christ is the Head of the Church. Ephesians 1:22, Ephesians 5:23 The birth of the Church. Acts 2 (birth = the first born again, the first baptised into the Body)This is still a future event in Acts 1:5, Jesus ascended in Acts 1:9, Holy Spirit given Acts 2:33. To be baptised with the Holy Spirit by Jesus is part of the born again process. Romans 6:3-6, Colossians 2:9-12. Jesus is the prophesied baptizer as John told us. Matthew 3:10-12, John 1:33-34,Acts 1:5 The Holy Spirit is the agent of baptism. 1 Corinthians 12:13 You cannot be born again unless you are baptised into the Body of Christ. Romans 6:3-6, Colossians 2:9-12. His baptism with the Holy spirit is that which saves. 1 Peter 3:21, Titus 3:5 Conditions that needed to be met. You could not be born again until......... ----A) Jesus died and was resurrected. ----[​IMG] We had the Holy Spirit who is the agent of baptism. These must happen first. ...........1) Christ must go away, depart, physically seen no more. John 16:7, John 16:10. ...........2) He must be glorified. John 7:39. ...........3) To "send" the Holy Spirit (John 14:26, John 15:26, Acts 1:4-5) He must first go away. ...........4) He must go to the Father. John 16:7-10. At Pentecost the conditions were met. (Acts 2:33. 1) They were not seeing Him (physically) 2) He was glorified (exalted) 3) He could then "send" the Holy Spirit. 4) He was with the Father, at his right hand. The beginning of the transition from the OT to the NT. The OT saints needed to be upgraded, but now...We are all baptised into one Body. 1 Corinthians 12:13 (norm for today)There is one Body, one baptism. Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 When you are baptised into Christ and Born again, you are complete in Him. Colossians 2:9-12, 2 Peter 1:3-4 There is no need of a second blessing. John 3:34 Even during this transitional period, the saved by faith (old covenant) Old Testament saints needed to be upgraded to the New Testament baptism (born again, baptised into the body of Christ, the Church.) Acts 19:1-7. This Gift from Acts 11:15 (the Holy Spirits permanent indwelling, sealed until the day of redemption) was the same Gift given to the Apostles at the beginning, i.e. The birth of the Church, which is Now for all nations and people. Acts 2:38, Acts 2:39. (also notice it is speaking of "the" Holy Spirit as the Gift. Christ was the first in preeminence. Colossians 1:18 John 7:39, John 14:16-17, John 14:26, John 15:16, John 16:7, John 16:10 were all fulfilled at Pentecost Acts 2:33, and not John 20:21-22. " the believers in Samaria who were converted under the ministry of Philip had to wait a short while to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit, until Peter and John came up to Samaria and layed hands on the converts (Acts 8:17). In that unique transitional situation as the Church was beginning, those particular believers had to wait for the Holy Spirit, but they were not told to seek Him.The purpose for that exception was to demonstrate to the apostles, and to bring word back to the Jewish believers in general, that the same Holy Spirit baptized and filled Samaritan believers as baptized and filled Jewish believers--just a short while later Peter and a few other Jewish Christians were sent to witness to Cornelius and his household in order to be convinced that the gospel was for all men and to see that "the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also"(Acts 10:44-45). Those special transitional events did not represent the norm, as our present text makes clear, but were given to indicate to all that the body was one". (Macarthur)
    hope this helps...Dave
     
  2. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    Amen to that Tallman!Everyone else that disaggrees with tongues being for today is really missing out on an awsome gift from God whether you believe it or not it's there for you!
    "The gift of tongues", like gifts of faith, words of wisdom, knowledge etc. refers specifically to the meetings-use, giving to the church, of what all christians have for private use (1 Cor. 1:4-7).You won't read ofd anyone praying to receive tongues, but you will read that all spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46, 19:5-6).So, anyone who has never spoken in tongues should pray whole-heartedly, without doubting to receive the Holy Spirit.They should not be deceived by the false doctrine that because they have a sincere belief in Jesus that therefore they have received the Holy Spirit!See Acts 8:12-16 for an example of why this is wrong. (See also Luke 11:5-13, Acts 19:5-6).
     
  3. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    So, anyone who has never spoken in tongues should pray whole-heartedly, without doubting to receive the Holy Spirit.They should not be deceived by the false doctrine that because they have a sincere belief in Jesus that therefore they have received the Holy Spirit!
    From the Bible I learn that if we are truthful believers, the Holy spirit is living in us. You are making it sound like if we dont speak in tongue the Holy Spirit is not in us.
     
  4. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    TallMan, 1 Corinthians 1:4-7 isn't speking of tongues.TallMan wrote:
    You won't read of anyone praying to receive tongues, but you will read that all spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46, 19:5-6).
    This was not only a sign to show that that this was part of God's punishment to the Nation of Israel explained two posts ago...With great compassion and sorrow for his fellow Jews, Paul wrote in Romans,"But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous." But with a note of great hope he continued, "Now if their transgression be riches for the world and their failure be riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!" (Romans 11:11-12). A few verses later he explains more fully:" For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written" (vv.25-26) Romans 11:25-26. The way would always be open for individual Jews to come into the kingdom, for the hardening was only partial, and one day the entire nation of Israel would be brought back to her Lord. The sign of tongues was repeated when the Gentiles were included in the church, as recorded in Acts 10:44-46. ...but tongues were also unique to the transitional perion explained above at the end of the previous post. Here's more..."Why did the Samaritans (and later the Gentiles) have to wait for the apostles before receiving the Spirit? For centuries, the Samaritans and the Jews had been bitter rivals. If the Samaritans had received the Spirit independent of the Jerusalem, that rift would have been purpetuated. There could well have been two seperate churches, a Jewish church and a Samaritan church. But God had designed one church, in which "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female," but "all are one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:2. By delaying the Spirit's coming until Peter and John arrived, God preserved the unity of the church. The apostles needed to see for themselves, and give firsthand testimony to the Jerusalem church, that the Spirit came upon the Samaritans. The Samaritans also needed to learn that they were subject to apostolic authority. The Jewish believers and Samaritans were thus linked together in one body. ...tongues, aside from being a sign to the nation of Israel, also showed by these same signs proof to the Jews that the Gentiles received the same Holy Spirit, and that God was now working through all nations and all peoples. See Peters report back to the Jewish counsil and their reaction because the same signs were given, hense the same Holy Spirit was given. They too recieved the promise of the Father, the Holy Spirit. There can only be one birth, after that, only growth.After this transition period...Today, believers receive the Spirit at salvation (cf.1 Cor. 12:13). There was no need for delay after Jews, Gentiles, Samaritans, and Old Testament saints were already included in the church....And the sign that proved the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Once the foundations of the Church were established, there was not only no need to wait for the Holy Spirit, but no need for the sign of tongues. We know God is working through all nations and all people now. 1 Corinthians was one of the earliest Episles. So the gift of tongues was still in operation as a sign of God's judgment. A.D. 70 was still future. The moment you believe, you are immersed/baptised into the Body of Christ by Jesus, with the agent of the Holy Spirit. Baptised/immersed into His death and raised up with Him (Born again). Romans 6:3-6, Colossians 2:9-12, Galatians 3:27, 1 Peter 3:21, Titus 3:5. There is no need to wait as OT saints needed to. We were told tongues would cease. The original languages show that they had a built in stopping place. And they did.
    "Being filled with the spirit must be distinguished from being baptized with the spirit. The apostle Paul carefully defines the baptism with the spirit as that act of Christ by which He places believers into His body (Romans 6:4-6; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27). In contrast to much errant teaching today, the New Testament nowhere commands believers to seek the baptism with the Holy Spirit. It is a sovereign, single, unrepeatable act on Gods part, and is no more an experience than are its companions justification and adoption. Although some wrongly view the baptism with the Spirit as the initiation into the ranks of the spiritual elite, nothing could be further from the truth. The purpose of the baptism with the spirit is not to divide the body of Christ, but to unify it. As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, through the baptism with the Spirit "we were all baptized into one body" (1 Corinthians 12:13; cf. Galatians 3:26-27; Ephesians 4:4-6) Unlike the baptism with the Spirit, being filled with the Spirit is an experience and should be continuous. Although filled initially on the day of Pentecost, Peter was filled again in Acts 4:8. Many of the same people filled with the Spirit in Acts 2 were filled again in Acts 4:31. Acts 6:5 describes Stephen as a man "full of faith and the Holy Spirit," yet Acts 7:55 records his being filled again. Paul was filled with the Spirit in Acts 9:17 and again in Acts 13:9. While there is no command in scripture to be baptized with the Spirit, believers are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18 ). The grammatical construction of that passage indicates believers are to be continuously being filled with the Spirit. Those who would be filled with the Spirit must first empty themselves. That involves confession of sin and dying to selfishness and self will. To be filled with the Holy Spirit is to consciously practice the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ and to have a mind saturated with the Word of God. Colossians 3:16-25 delineates the results of "letting the word of Christ richly dwell" in us. They are the same ones that result from the filling of the Spirit (Ephesians 5:19-33). As believers yield the moment by moment decisions of life to His control, they "walk by the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16). The baptism of the Spirit grants the power that the filling with the Spirit unleashes." (Macarthur) A side note: A proper understanding of being "filled" is not to think of us as a glass being filled with water, being "filled actually means to be more under the control of the Holy Spirit. Once again, We are given the HS without measure John 3:34, and when we are born again we are complete in Him, lacking nothing Colossians 2:9-12, 2 Peter 1:3-4.
    I pray that you will test all things and not supress the truth in unrighteousness. If you can show me that i'm wrong, do it honestly, with scripture, I have no problem with that.Dave
     
  5. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    (Dave...;15093)
    Tallman, the purpose of the Holy Spirit, not tongues, is to lead us in prayer according to God's will. This is why you're reading tongues into these verses that have nothing to do with tongues. . .The scripture that you provided does not say what you claim it does. These verses have nothing to do with tongues. . . Jude 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
    Speaking in tongues is speaking to God, not men (1 Cor. 14:2), that's prayer isn't it ?1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;to edify is to build up (Jude 20)People speak in tongues by the Holy Spirit, so they are praying in the Holy Spirit.See also:-1Co:14:14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.:15: What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.:16: Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?:17: For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.:18: I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:So, if you understand what you are saying it is not praying with the spirit.Also note you give thanks well, so tongues is praying or blessing God according to His will.(Dave...;15093)
    note on Ephesians 6:18-19: While in prison, Paul was not praying for comfort or ease, he was praying that he would preach the Gospel with boldness, regardless of the cost. This is praying in the Spirit Guys, it has nothing to do with tongues. It's praying according to, and in harmony with the will of God.
    It says "all prayer" . . Here's a prophecy:-Zec:12:10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications:The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of grace and supplications .. what does this prophecy refer to? . . .Ac:2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.The supplications is the speaking in tongues, Jesus had already said:-"ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you" (Acts 1:8)That power gave them boldness - look at the change in the disciples!(Dave...;15093)
    Compare to...1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
    Since the New Covenant hasn't and will not change (Gal.3:15) why don't you ask for the same infilling detailed in the bible which and very many today have received fron God?(Dave...;15093)
    1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
    Paul is talking about spiritual gifts and how to discern what is / isn't of God. The Holy Spirit gave this (and all) revelation of Jesus. Just because you quote the revelation that others have recorded doesn't mean that you have the Holy Spirit! - especially when you don't do the things that the Lord Jesus says believers will do!(Dave...;15093)
    If you pray by the Spirit (According to God's will),
    You cannot pray by the Spirit contrary to God's will!(Dave...;15093)
    "which cannot be uttered"
    So you believe the Holy Spirit, who knows all things and who created all things by the word and by wisdom doesn't have the words??Of course he does, it is humans that don't know what to say, we don't have the utterance, that's why we need tongues!!How do you pray for the peace that PASSES understanding?(Dave...;15093)
    Apart from the primary purpose of tongues, which Paul said was to be a sign to unbelievers (Jews),
    Where doep Paul use the words "primary" or "secondary" ?Or did you add this idea?(Dave...;15093)
    There is no such sign being given today like we read about in Acts.
    This is an apostate confession.(Dave...;15093)
    ...What advantage does tongues hold for the individual or the Body that cannot be accomplished both more efficiently and with less confusion by normal ( non-miraculous) means?
    It allows the Holy Spirit to lead you into the peace, love and power that you as a natural man cannot understand.
     
  6. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (iakwe2002;14151)
    Greetings everybody!I have a question regarding speaking in tongues. In Acts 2: 4, 11, it says "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them . . . declaring the wonders of God." My question is, can you speak in tongue without being filled with the holy spirit?
    The answer is yes....speaking in tongue means speaking a language. Every person who can speak, even if he or she is not a Christian speak in tongue. In fact one can speak in tongues, by learning many foreign languages.
     
  7. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (iakwe2002;14155)
    Thank you for your response.So what these Pastors are preaching is false? They say "Speak in tongues and the Holy Spirit will fall upon you."I understand what the book of Acts chapter 2 says, but if a Senior Pastor claims you do not have to wait for the Holy Spirit to fall upon you for you to speak in tongues, what understanding should you take? Aren't these (Pastors) the shepherds who are to feed us the Word and guide us?II Tim. 2:15 - "Study to show thyself approved...."Thank you and God Bless
    If someone is telling you something (pastor/your denomination) that is contrary to the scriptures, you are under no obligation to believe it or do it. One must take responsibility for there salvation, because God is judging us by what we do or did not do, according to His word, if we knew better. You have a Bible at home, study it, and don’t leave it up to the pastor/Church to tell you what it says. God can and has revealed things from the Bible, through His Spirit to some lay members that He has not to some pastors.
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Amen varzanumi24. :amen:(verzanumi24)
    The answer is yes....speaking in tongue means speaking a language. Every person who can speak, even if he or she is not a Christian speak in tongue. In fact one can speak in tongues, by learning many foreign languages.
    Speaking a tongue is great as every person does. Speaking (Learning) an unknown tongue(s) is an wonderful works of God. but for someone who doesn't understand another language and then an interpreter (propesy) tells the person(s) (who doesn't speak or understand the unknown tongue) what the unknown tongue person says...That's even better...because it edifies other people so they can understand. [​IMG]P.S Not some mumbo jumbo...Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  9. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    Thank you everyone.I want to ask the pastor these questions, but how would I approach him or should I?Again, thank you for your blessed response. I know God is with you and has blessed you with HIS knowledge.next up....Malachi 3:8, 9.....
    Tithe paying was only required from the Children of Israel....in the New testament one is not limited to just ten percent, but you give according to your ability and as you are lead by the Holy Spirit. A Christian, if he or she is mature does not need a bunch of laws to get them to do what God expect of them, because God's nature is in them, so they will be moved by the Spirit to do as His nature in them moves them.
     
  10. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    I seriously doubt it will do any good most Pastors know what the word says and have their pat answers/excuses there are posters on this site that swear by tongues.It basically comes down to listening to what God says or following men's traditions. We have told you what God says but to those who have chosen not listen it is what it is. Men will do as they always have done follow other Men or their hearts desire over Gods wordGod Bless to you for hearing God over men
    Very good, you have spoken well.
     
  11. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    (verzanumi24;15121)
    The answer is yes....speaking in tongue means speaking a language. Every person who can speak, even if he or she is not a Christian speak in tongue. In fact one can speak in tongues, by learning many foreign languages.
    When the scriptures talk about "speaking in tongues" it's referring to miraculously speaking in a language you never learned and that you don't personally understand.Otherwise there would be no reason to attribute the phenomena to God's Spirit . . .M'r:16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;Ac:2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. . . . And they were all amazed and marvelledAc:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.Ac:10:45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, . . . For they heard them speak with tonguesYou don't get that response if someone learns French !!
     
  12. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (TallMan;15136)
    When the scriptures talk about "speaking in tongues" it's referring to miraculously speaking in a language you never learned and that you don't personally understand.Otherwise there would be no reason to attribute the phenomena to God's Spirit . . .M'r:16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;Ac:2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. . . . And they were all amazed and marvelledAc:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.Ac:10:45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, . . . For they heard them speak with tonguesYou don't get that response if someone learns French !!
    Here is Iakwe2002’s question.My question is, can you speak in tongue without being filled with the holy spirit? His question was dealing with speaking in another language/tongue, and not if the disciples learn the language. So yes, when the disciples spoke in tongues/languages, it was by the Holy Spirit, because they did not know how to speak these language other wise. But the fact is one can and do speak in tongues with out having the Holy Spirit.
     
  13. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    I like your simplicity, V24:)
     
  14. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Faithful1;15142)
    I like your simplicity, V24:)
    The problem is, many put more importance in tongue speaking than the other more important fruit of the Spirit.Galatians 5:22 (KJV) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Ephesians 5:9 (KJV) 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth 1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV) 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. Charity:Greek Word: ἀγάπηTransliteration: agapēPhonetic Pronunciation: ag-ah'-pay from (agapao); love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast :- (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love. —Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary
     
  15. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    The problem is, many put more importance in tongue speaking than the other more important fruit of the Spirit
    Most of us make the Bible more complicated than it is.
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I so simply agree with you Verzanumi24...They love tongues more than they think...:amen:Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  17. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    Here is Iakwe2002’s question.My question is, can you speak in tongue without being filled with the holy spirit? ]
    This question was answered by me in message #8 of this thread.Please respond to my comments there.
     
  18. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    (verzanumi24;15144)
    The problem is, many put more importance in tongue speaking than the other more important fruit of the Spirit.
    Maybe some do that but your problem is that without first receiving the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues you don't have the love (agape) it's talking about there !!You are substituting your own human love ("phileos")
     
  19. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (TallMan;15148)
    Maybe some do that but your problem is that without first receiving the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues you don't have the love (agape) it's talking about there !!You are substituting your own human love ("phileos")
    Well I'm sure the writer was not speaking of human love. Speaking in tongues is only one of the fruit of the Spirit....God does not give everyone the same gift. The prophets of the Old Testament, for example did not speak in tongues, but they had other evidence of the Spirit of God in them.
     
  20. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    (verzanumi24;15155)
    Well I'm sure the writer was not speaking of human love. Speaking in tongues is only one of the fruit of the Spirit....God does not give everyone the same gift. The prophets of the Old Testament, for example did not speak in tongues, but they had other evidence of the Spirit of God in them.
    Tongues is not one of the fruit of the Spirit.All true christians have Jesus Christ inside and there is no such thing as Jesus without his mind, character, strength etc so all christians have all the attributes of knowledge, wisdom, discernment, prophecy, tongues and interpretation - that's why Paul has to reason with the Corinthians not to all speak in tongues when they meet.If, as you say, only some had tongues, the problem could never have arisen."The gifts are the meetings-use (giving to the church) of what all Christians have privately.1Co:1:4: I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;:5: That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;:6: Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:The prophets were under the Old Covenant/Testament, that's why they didn't speak in tongues.Tongues is God's sign for entering the New Covenant - the new tongue signifies the new heart . .. just like God gave a specific sign for previous covenants and just like we give our signature when we enter into a covenant.
     
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