Spoken Word and Written Word are the Same

[neophyte]

Axehead, if Jesus never said those Words found in Luke 10:16 then I'd have to agree with you but Jesus organized and taught only the "fullness of the faith " to these twelve apostles and it was to his apostles that he gave all authority to teach and rule as shown in John 20:21 Jesus then tells them to make more deciples in all lands throughout the world making more deciples [ replacements and successors ] teaching them every thing that He taught His personal nucleus of His Church[ those twelve apostles ] Matt. 28:18-20 and we see evidence of this as Written in these verses Acts 13:3, 14:22, 1:24:26, and Titus 1:5 .
.
In the year 110 St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote: Where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church ".[ Ad Smyr.8:2 ]

" The Church is called Catholic by all her enemies,as well by her own children. Heretics and schismatics can call the Church by no other name than Catholic, for they would not be understood, unless they used the name by which the Church is known to the whole world." [ St. Augustine, 4th Century, in DeVera Religione ]

Using the Holy Bible one can not find any reference where Jesus wanted any other future church different than from His One True Church as we find described in this verse Eph. 2:19 He appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church and their successors were to be its future leaders as it has continuosly been fot the past 2000 years.
Here do a little home work for you, If you believe only in Sola Scriptura then use it by showing me evidence from the Bible or better yet I'll let you go even outside the Bible to show where Jesus gave His Authority to anybody else [ mere-men ] besides the apostles and their successors ?

 

[Axehead]

Axehead, if Jesus never said those Words found in Luke 10:16 then I'd have to agree with you but Jesus organized and taught only the "fullness of the faith " to these twelve apostles and it was to his apostles that he gave all authority to teach and rule as shown in John 20:21 Jesus then tells them to make more deciples in all lands throughout the world making more deciples [ replacements and successors ] teaching them every thing that He taught His personal nucleus of His Church[ those twelve apostles ] Matt. 28:18-20 and we see evidence of this as Written in these verses Acts 13:3, 14:22, 1:24:26, and Titus 1:5 .
.
In the year 110 St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote: Where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church ".[ Ad Smyr.8:2 ]

" The Church is called Catholic by all her enemies,as well by her own children. Heretics and schismatics can call the Church by no other name than Catholic, for they would not be understood, unless they used the name by which the Church is known to the whole world." [ St. Augustine, 4th Century, in DeVera Religione ]

Using the Holy Bible one can not find any reference where Jesus wanted any other future church different than from His One True Church as we find described in this verse Eph. 2:19 He appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church and their successors were to be its future leaders as it has continuosly been fot the past 2000 years.
Here do a little home work for you, If you believe only in Sola Scriptura then use it by showing me evidence from the Bible or better yet I'll let you go even outside the Bible to show where Jesus gave His Authority to anybody else [ mere-men ] besides the apostles and their successors ?

Neo, if you really believe all that you said, then be happy in them. The crusades are over, aren't they?

We are going round and round and round.

I told you that I can only follow the Voice that I recognize and I don't recognize the voice behind your "truth".
Do you believe in the power of prayer and love our souls? Then pray for us.

Axehead

 

[mjrhealth]

The problem is Neo is that Jesus taught the Pharisses of the time the truth too, but like all the religious they would not listen, and this is what He said of them,

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Nothing has changeds.

In All His Love

 

[Mungo]

All this is true of the One True Church, except the last sentence. Neither catholicism or any other man-made denomination shows forth any of what you've put together, only the One True Church, the Bride of Christ does. And IT'S members walk amongst all the "denominations" seeking out the lost sheep that are being starved to death by the doctrines of the catholics and protestants. It is the creeds and doctrines of the catholics and protestants that destroy men's souls. We who are of the One True Church do not have a worldly denominational axe to grind, nor do we use creeds and doctrines, but are only led by the Word as revealed by the Holy Spirit of Christ in us. And THAT isn't something that ANY denomination/creed/doctrine can do.

Catholicism is not a man made denomination.

It was built by Jesus Christ on the Rock of Peter, on the foundation of the prophets and the apostles.

It is the only Church that has the fullness of the Truth because it is Christ’s Church and he promised his Church would be indefectible.

Apparently you think being led by the Spirit leads you into multiple denominations teaching conflicting beliefs.

The "One Church" is comprised of individual believers throughout the world. Some of them may have been brought up in a catholic or protestant background, but if they are of Christ, they will certainly move on toward the high calling as ministers of the Gospel and will not find intelligent meaning behind being called "catholic" or "coc" or "sda" or "jw" etc, but will leave these immature idols behind and become a mature man of God.

Christ founded a visible Church. Being One Church, is not simply believing in Christ but belonging to the Church he set up and being one in beliefs, not in a multiplicity of conflicting beliefs.

Oh, and PS. Peter's CONFESSION is the Rock of which we ALL build the Church upon. THAT was first from Jesus, then upon His Twelve, and now upon each of us who believe. The Church is built upon all who confess Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God.
Not just upon Peter who confessed Christ the Son of the Living God.

Peace

The Rock that Christ built his Church on is Peter – that is why Jesus renamed Simon as Rock (Kepha in Aramaic). In Jn 1:42
"“You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Kephas” (which is translated Peter)” .Renaming someone is always significant in the Bible. Kephas (Greek Cephas) is Aramaic for Rock (a big one).

The context of the passage Mt 16:17-19 focuses on Peter and his commissioning as leader with the keys and the binding and loosing. It is in that context, and the context of Jn 1:42 that Jesus declares “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,….”

Paul refers to Peter as Kephas (Rock) – see 1Cor 15:5, Gal 1:18, Gal 2:9

Apparently Axehead is not going to reply to my previous post so let me press on with his original claims

II Peter 1:12-15 - presents a powerful affirmation that what the apostles taught orally was then codified in written form as the same message: "Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance."

From Peter's words we can see the following:

1. Gospel truths taught orally can soon be forgotten.

Where does it say that?

2. They had already been taught those truths that Peter repeats in written form for several reasons.

• To remind them of truths already embraced.

Not so fast.
To remind them of some of the truth already embraced. What are these things that he is reminding them of? Well he lists them earlier:
5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
That is not the full gospel of Jesus Christ

• To "stir them up" to the meanings of and the practice of those truths.
• To preserve those truths beyond the life span of the apostles.

[/quote]

It does not say how. It does not say I will write it all down for you

• To give permanent form to the truths taught.

No it doesn’t say that.

• To let them know that after the death of the apostles there will be no other source of knowledge about the Gospel truth.

Do we have a full detailed gospel from Peter?

Where does he say that after the death of the apostles there will be no other source of knowledge about the Gospel truth? It’s not in the text. You are just making that up.
Peter says “And I will see to it that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things..”

What things is Peter referring to?
He does not say the whole of the gospel, all the various doctrines of salvation.
He says “these things” – the things he has been writing about – see verses 5 – 7 above.

You are trying to read huge amounts into the text that is just not there.

 

[whitestone]

Yes catholicism is a man-made religion. There is nothing similar to it in scriptures, it is just a false religion full of itself and graven images.

 

[Mungo]

Yes catholicism is a man-made religion. There is nothing similar to it in scriptures, it is just a false religion full of itself and graven images.

So you say but you are wrong.

 

[Helen]

Okay...question. When the Lord looks on His people and His church...He looks through the blood of Jesus ✟ Because Jesus died 'as us' on the cross. Father Does Father see 'many denominations' many creeds, or does he see one blood washed people?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jew or Gentile , whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit...
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, ... bond nor free,... male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

I think we have one common enemy and it isn't wach other!

 

[Axehead]

Catholicism is not a man made denomination.

It was built by Jesus Christ on the Rock of Peter, on the foundation of the prophets and the apostles.

It is the only Church that has the fullness of the Truth because it is Christ’s Church and he promised his Church would be indefectible.

Then be happy with your Church and don't listen to the naysayers.

Paul refers to Peter as Kephas (Rock) – see 1Cor 15:5, Gal 1:18, Gal 2:9

Apparently Axehead is not going to reply to my previous post so let me press on with his original claims

I'm getting there Mungo. You guys are keeping us quite busy.

Okay...question. When the Lord looks on His people and His church...He looks through the blood of Jesus ✟ Because Jesus died 'as us' on the cross. Father Does Father see 'many denominations' many creeds, or does he see one blood washed people?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jew or Gentile , whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit...
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, ... bond nor free,... male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

I think we have one common enemy and it isn't each other!

Amen, ByGrace! There is only one source who is the Adversary, Enemy. But he works through unsuspecting men.

 

[Mungo]

When the Lord looks on His people and His church...He looks through the blood of Jesus

Just where does it say that in scripture?

 

[neophyte]

Whitestone, you wrote: "Yes catholicism is a man-made religion. There is nothing similar to it in scriptures, it is just a false religion full of itself and graven images." Insult me but not my Christian faith or it's Church which was formed based on our Lord's private tutelage of the twelve apostles and commanding them to go out into the world and teach them everything that Jesus taught them, that method of teaching Christ's Christianity is called the Apostolic Teaching method endorced by Jesus Himself , I think many of you non-Catholics must think that Jesus only wanted those that were living in the 1st Century to be taught by Him and His apostles and let the rest of the future Christians be tied down with a Religious Holy Book exactly as their "sole ruler for salvation' exactly similar to the other Book Alone Religions i.e. Islam, Judaism, and beginning circa 1500s came Protestantism including their off-spring KJV cults such as Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, and the other thousands of conflicting Protestant churches with everyone of these denominational and non-denominational churches / cults following a mere-man invention of sola Scriptura.
Whitestone it is your Protestant Religion that doesn't follow the way that Jesus taught His apostles and they the early Christians.
For example ,show me from the Holy Bible , the inerrant Word of God where the Christians of the bible brought their bibles with them whenever they gathered in homes or fields? If God wanted His Christian Faith to be a" Book Alone Religion " then Jesus , instead of taking time in selecting His " Teaching Apostles ", he would have had man invent a printing press much earlier than when it was invented , then Jesus would have passed out Holy Books instead of Holy Words.
One more thing , God doesn't mind if man carves or displys graven images as you call them, actually God does permit the use of religious statues and images, so long as we avoid idolatry, if you need the Bible verses just tell me and I will supply.

 

[epostle1]

Yes catholicism is a man-made religion. There is nothing similar to it in scriptures, it is just a false religion full of itself and graven images.

[size="-1"]21. Many Protestants take a dim view towards Christian history in general, esp. the years from 313 (Constantine's conversion) to 1517 (Luther's arrival). This ignorance and hostility to Catholic Tradition leads to theological relativism, anti-Catholicism, and a constant, unnecessary process of "reinventing the wheel."[/size]

[size="-1"]22. Protestantism from its inception was anti-Catholic, and remains so to this day (esp. evangelicalism). This is obviously wrong and unbiblical if Catholicism is indeed Christian (if it isn't, then - logically - neither is Protestantism, which inherited the bulk of its theology from Catholicism). The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is not anti-Protestant.[/size]

[size="-1"]26. Protestantism arose in 1517, and is a "Johnny-come-lately" in the history of Christianity. Therefore it cannot possibly be the "restoration" of "pure", "primitive" Christianity, since this is ruled out by the fact of its absurdly late appearance. Christianity must have historic continuity or it is not Christianity. Protestantism is necessarily a "parasite" of Catholicism, historically and doctrinally speaking.[/size]

[size="-1"]35. Catholicism retains the sense of the sacred, the sublime, the holy, and the beautiful in spirituality. The ideas of altar, and "sacred space" are preserved. Many Protestant churches are no more than "meeting halls" or "gymnasiums" or "barn"-type structures. Most Protestants' homes are more esthetically striking than their churches. Likewise, Protestants are often "addicted to mediocrity" in their appreciation of art, music, architecture, drama, the imagination, etc.[/size]

[size="-1"]37. Protestantism tends to oppose matter and spirit, favoring the latter, and is somewhat Gnostic or Docetic in this regard.[/size]

[size="-1"]124. Protestantism disbelieves, by and large, in the development of doctrine, contrary to Christian Tradition and many implicit biblical indications. Whenever the Bible refers to the increasing knowledge and maturity of Christians individually and (particularly) collectively, an idea similar to development is present. Further, many doctrines develop in the Bible before our eyes ("progressive revelation"). Examples: the afterlife, the Trinity, acceptance of Gentiles. And doctrines which Protestantism accepts whole and entire from Catholicism, such as the Trinity and the Canon of the Bible, developed in history, in the first three centuries of Christianity. It is foolish to try and deny this. The Church is the "Body" of Christ, and is a living organism, which grows and develops like all living bodies. It is not a statue, simply to be cleaned and polished over time, as many Protestants seem to think.[/size]

[size="-1"]150. Last but by no means least, Catholicism has the most sublime spirituality and devotional spirit, manifested in a thousand different ways, from the monastic ideal, to the heroic celibacy of the clergy and religious, the Catholic hospitals, the sheer holiness of a Thomas a Kempis or a St. Ignatius and their great devotional books, countless saints - both canonized and as yet unknown and unsung, Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul II, Pope John XXIII, the early martyrs, St. Francis of Assisi, the events at Lourdes and Fatima, the dazzling intellect of John Henry Cardinal Newman, the wisdom and insight of Archbishop Fulton Sheen, St. John of the Cross, the sanctified wit of a Chesterton or a Muggeridge, elderly women doing the Stations of the Cross or the Rosary, Holy Hour, Benediction, kneeling - the list goes on and on. This devotional spirit is unmatched in its scope and deepness, despite many fine counterparts in Protestant and Orthodox spirituality.[/size]

[size="-1"]150 reason why I am a Catholic[/size]

 

[Axehead]

21. Many Protestants take a dim view towards Christian history in general, esp. the years from 313 (Constantine's conversion) to 1517 (Luther's arrival). This ignorance and hostility to Catholic Tradition leads to theological relativism, anti-Catholicism, and a constant, unnecessary process of "reinventing the wheel."

I don't defend Protestantism since there will only be "blood bought saints of God" in heaven. I do understand why history is very important to them, and why they do not tolerate re-written history.

22. Protestantism from its inception was anti-Catholic, and remains so to this day (esp. evangelicalism). This is obviously wrong and unbiblical if Catholicism is indeed Christian (if it isn't, then - logically - neither is Protestantism, which inherited the bulk of its theology from Catholicism). The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is not anti-Protestant.

I can understand why people rebelled when they found out that what they were being told by the Catholic papacy and what the Bible actually said were very different. Protestantism is more of a protest against the papacy taking the role of Jesus Christ on earth and all the accompanying dogmas created to support the Papists.

26. Protestantism arose in 1517, and is a "Johnny-come-lately" in the history of Christianity. Therefore it cannot possibly be the "restoration" of "pure", "primitive" Christianity, since this is ruled out by the fact of its absurdly late appearance. Christianity must have historic continuity or it is not Christianity. Protestantism is necessarily a "parasite" of Catholicism, historically and doctrinally speaking.

Protestantism is more of a recovery of truths from the early church. Truths which the papacy almost stamped out. But, as imperfect as the Reformation was, God was not finished and He has been recovering truths for His church ever since the Reformation and there have always been a remnant of believers on earth that exercise true faith in Jesus Christ. They have been taken into the "wilderness" of this world since religion took over and corrupted and twisted God's word. It is true that many protestant groups have gone off, while the Catholic church has been off the mark for some 1600 years. God allows the Catholic church to stay around so that we can see the contrast between truth and lies. They will also fulfill His predetermined purposes in the last days.

35. Catholicism retains the sense of the sacred, the sublime, the holy, and the beautiful in spirituality. The ideas of altar, and "sacred space" are preserved. Many Protestant churches are no more than "meeting halls" or "gymnasiums" or "barn"-type structures. Most Protestants' homes are more esthetically striking than their churches. Likewise, Protestants are often "addicted to mediocrity" in their appreciation of art, music, architecture, drama, the imagination, etc.

I don't know about protestants, but this statement seems to reveal ignorance and superficiality. God looks on the heart and not the pomp and circumstance and scarlet and purple dresses of the Roman clergy. Stain glass windows will not keep demons out as we have learned down through the centuries.

124. Protestantism disbelieves, by and large, in the development of doctrine, contrary to Christian Tradition and many implicit biblical indications. Whenever the Bible refers to the increasing knowledge and maturity of Christians individually and (particularly) collectively, an idea similar to development is present. Further, many doctrines develop in the Bible before our eyes ("progressive revelation"). Examples: the afterlife, the Trinity, acceptance of Gentiles. And doctrines which Protestantism accepts whole and entire from Catholicism, such as the Trinity and the Canon of the Bible, developed in history, in the first three centuries of Christianity. It is foolish to try and deny this. The Church is the "Body" of Christ, and is a living organism, which grows and develops like all living bodies. It is not a statue, simply to be cleaned and polished over time, as many Protestants seem to think.

I believe you are right. They don't believe in the continual development of new doctrine which is on the same authoritative level of the Bible.

150. Last but by no means least, Catholicism has the most sublime spirituality and devotional spirit, manifested in a thousand different ways, from the monastic ideal, to the heroic celibacy of the clergy and religious, the Catholic hospitals, the sheer holiness of a Thomas a Kempis or a St. Ignatius and their great devotional books, countless saints - both canonized and as yet unknown and unsung, Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul II, Pope John XXIII, the early martyrs, St. Francis of Assisi, the events at Lourdes and Fatima, the dazzling intellect of John Henry Cardinal Newman, the wisdom and insight of Archbishop Fulton Sheen, St. John of the Cross, the sanctified wit of a Chesterton or a Muggeridge, elderly women doing the Stations of the Cross or the Rosary, Holy Hour, Benediction, kneeling - the list goes on and on. This devotional spirit is unmatched in its scope and deepness, despite many fine counterparts in Protestant and Orthodox spirituality.

Well, there you have it my friends. Out of Kepha's own mouth. He never talks about Jesus Christ. He only compares churches with other churches, and people with other people. He is trying to win people to his church organization by exalting his church. He is in a "body builder" competition and can you just see him walking on stage and strutting his "body" and showing how perfect it is compared to other "bodys"? Why look at his sinews and muscles, the perfection and balance of it all. Are you impressed? You should be! Who has seen such a beautiful and perfect "body?" To bad it is missing the Head!

I'll stick with the "nobodies" of this world that choose rather to exalt Jesus Christ (the Head) and tell of His wonders rather draw attention to their "body". Religious narcissism is the phrase I have been looking for.

Mat_23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,


Axehead

Whitestone, you wrote: "Yes catholicism is a man-made religion. There is nothing similar to it in scriptures, it is just a false religion full of itself and graven images." Insult me but not my Christian faith or it's Church which was formed based on our Lord's private tutelage of the twelve apostles and commanding them to go out into the world and teach them everything that Jesus taught them, that method of teaching Christ's Christianity is called the Apostolic Teaching method endorced by Jesus Himself , I think many of you non-Catholics must think that Jesus only wanted those that were living in the 1st Century to be taught by Him and His apostles and let the rest of the future Christians be tied down with a Religious Holy Book exactly as their "sole ruler for salvation' exactly similar to the other Book Alone Religions i.e. Islam, Judaism, and beginning circa 1500s came Protestantism including their off-spring KJV cults such as Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, and the other thousands of conflicting Protestant churches with everyone of these denominational and non-denominational churches / cults following a mere-man invention of sola Scriptura.
Whitestone it is your Protestant Religion that doesn't follow the way that Jesus taught His apostles and they the early Christians.
For example ,show me from the Holy Bible , the inerrant Word of God where the Christians of the bible brought their bibles with them whenever they gathered in homes or fields? If God wanted His Christian Faith to be a" Book Alone Religion " then Jesus , instead of taking time in selecting His " Teaching Apostles ", he would have had man invent a printing press much earlier than when it was invented , then Jesus would have passed out Holy Books instead of Holy Words.
One more thing , God doesn't mind if man carves or displys graven images as you call them, actually God does permit the use of religious statues and images, so long as we avoid idolatry, if you need the Bible verses just tell me and I will supply.

Neo, if you don't waste your time in Jehovah Witness or Mormon forums, then why waste your time in a lowly Protestant forum? Can you help me understand that?

 

[mjrhealth]

Why I am not religious.

Salvation is in Christ alone.

If I went to church every day, sat in a hard pew and listened to teh priest pastor whatever, would it make any difference, No, because my salvation is in Christ alone.

I put on a clown mask and played the fool, God didnt laugh, " waht are you doing", was His question, I dont Know , I answered, My salvation is in Christ alone,

If I was to read every christian book, read the bible from cover to cover, go to discussion groups, bible college, debates, church, what would I learn

Salvation is in Christ alone.

If i was to swim the seven seas, with shark bait tied to my toes to try and impress God, would it help. No, For,

My salavtion is in Christ alone.

If i was to dress in my sunday best, wear a cross around my neck, carru a bible in my hand and look all gracious, it woudl inmpress the worl, but not God when I stand before Him i am naked He can see through all my self rightousness and my disguisses, would it help. No for,

My salvation is in Christ alone.

You can all sit here and bicker and argue till the cows come home, it doesnt impress God, and in the end you will see it was all foolishness, for your salvation is

IN CHRIST ALONE


In All His Love

 

[neophyte]

Why I am not religious.

Salvation is in Christ alone.

If I went to church every day, sat in a hard pew and listened to teh priest pastor whatever, would it make any difference, No, because my salvation is in Christ alone.

I put on a clown mask and played the fool, God didnt laugh, " waht are you doing", was His question, I dont Know , I answered, My salvation is in Christ alone,

If I was to read every christian book, read the bible from cover to cover, go to discussion groups, bible college, debates, church, what would I learn

Salvation is in Christ alone.

If i was to swim the seven seas, with shark bait tied to my toes to try and impress God, would it help. No, For,

My salavtion is in Christ alone.

If i was to dress in my sunday best, wear a cross around my neck, carru a bible in my hand and look all gracious, it woudl inmpress the worl, but not God when I stand before Him i am naked He can see through all my self rightousness and my disguisses, would it help. No for,

My salvation is in Christ alone.

You can all sit here and bicker and argue till the cows come home, it doesnt impress God, and in the end you will see it was all foolishness, for your salvation is

IN CHRIST ALONE


In All His Love

When speaking of salvation, Jesus offered more details than just those words that you quoted above. For example, consider these three verses:

He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)

Unless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)

He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively. Catholics recognize that these sacraments are administered through the Church. In fact, in the case of the latter two, a validly ordained priest is necessary for their administration, so the sacrament of ordination must also be associated with salvation.You and "Just Jesus and me alone" doesn't cut it mjrhealth,Unless you refuse to accept everything found in the bible, which apparently you don't. In All His Love

 

[7angels]

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH AND ONE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST? God is not only in the catholic church or the Protestant church or any other church. and yet God can be in all of them. it has been my displease to find out that if we really wanted to use scripture to back up our points we can do it even for proving unscriptural points of view. but i have found out that if we are willing to search scripture we will find those that try and misrepresent the gospel.

God's word tells us that if we are following his word that we will have our prays answered, signs, miracles, and wonders will abound to confirm that God's word is true, and ect. debating churches just goes to show how immature we truly are. the word teaches that debating leads to strife and all sorts of evil. why would we want to bring this upon ourselves?

when was the last catholic revival or protestant revival? there have never been any. every time people start to claim that this was their revival or our revival that they all seem to die out. all revivals were and always will be God's revivals. if this is true then why do we say this is God's church because it is catholic or protestant or whatever. it is not the type or name or anything else that declares we are of God. according to the word it is us christian who should tremble in fear of God least God get disappointed with us. so why don't we act more like Christ and be respectful of each other and listen and try and understand where we are coming from instead of just assuming.

if you really want to know the truth of God's word then try and find someone who has their prays answered frequently, live a joyful and blessed life, have signs, miracles, and wonders following them daily. unless this is happening to you then how can i or anyone else know that what you say is the truth. so many of us sIn with sin spelled with a capital 'I'. I is a word that needs to be taken out of vocabulation because 'I' in almost every instance is a reference to pride. just reading many of the posted forums shows me that we are more concerned with being right then teaching the truth. otherwise why do we debate each other trying to prove we are right? is it to claim that we are all knowing about God's word and the great revelation we have about his word? or is it to show everyone else how knowledgeable we are? very few here do it God's glory. i know this because many of you do it contrary to what the word of God teaches.

God bless

 

[neophyte]

7Angels, by writing that Jesus left us more than "One" Church" whether you know it or not saying that is mocking or calling Jesus aliar. Jesus only left us one visible Church , which is based on His apostles. The rest that you wrote is only your own opinion. How could anybody go wrong if they teach what Christ's Church teaches.?

 

[mjrhealth]

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

No bible, no church, no baptism, no religion, didnt even ask forgiveness, just asked Jesus to remember Him.

Wh yis it so hard for men to accept the work that Jesus has done!

Ity is finished.

In all His Love

 

[neophyte]

That's how much you understand jesus and His power to do what ever He wants to do ,That incident on the cross was an exception or it is possible that the thief was possibly naptised prior to the cross, you don't really know so you can not draw your own infinite conclusion. One more thing that you don't seem to understand and that is; it wasn't over [ it is finished, as you write ] until the Resurrection, Bad catethesis you have received there mjrhealth.

 

[7angels]

MJRHEALTH

if i understand what you are saying correctly then you are right. what you are saying is that it is possible to go to heaven just by asking Jesus without the bible, church, baptism, religion or even asking forgiveness right? because according to scripture this is true. it is not how it normally is done but but yes it can happen that way. but the are conditions that need to be met first. don't just think you can do this and not have a change of heart. without a heart change you will not get to heaven no matter what you do.

neophyte

my first sentence says WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH AND ONE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST? i never said anything about God having more then one church. i said God does not limit himself to any one denomination. i know Godly people who are going to heaven that are baptist, word of faith, catholic, and ect. it is not necessary to be of any one denomination to receive revelation from God either.

next the church of Christ is not founded on the apostles but on Christ.

lastly everything i wrote can be supported by scripture and is not my opinion. it is a fact.

God bless

 

[neophyte]

7angels, you wrote:"my first sentence says WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH AND ONE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST? i never said anything about God having more then one church. i said God does not limit himself to any one denomination. i know Godly people who are going to heaven that are baptist, word of faith, catholic, and ect. it is not necessary to be of any one denomination to receive revelation from God either."

You are not totally correct with your understanding of what the Bible speaks, Yes, it is true that Jesus left us with only One Church as you have written. Although you leave out that it was and still is formed on His apostles [ Matt: 16: 15-19, Matt.28: 18-20, Luke 10: 16 ] not on a' bible alone'.
The "One Doctrine " that you write about was infused into His Apostolic Church back then at Pentecost not later circa 1500 A.D. onward as is witnessed by your multitude of Prot. churches invented by mere-men and a few women. All these new churches which are not based on the Apostles Eph.5: 25-27 ] are not recognized by Jesus ,but yes some of the members of these churches, through the infusing of God's grace will save them.[ Acts 2:17-18; Acts 4:31 ] also other non- Christians will be saved if through no fault of their own have never heard of the Good News of Jesus.
Jesus can be the Spouse of only One Church, Jesus is not a polygamist and He never divorced His Church which is the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Unless your church can trace it's religious lineage directly back to the apostles and Jesus then that church was not formed by Jesus, that church [ s ] was invented by mere-men.

next the church of Christ is not founded on the apostles but on Christ.-----
Wrong , described above


lastly everything i wrote can be supported by scripture and is not my opinion. it is a fact.---

Everything I have written above also can be proven from Holy Scripture , the Scripture I gave directly relates to each of the issues you bring up.