Spotting Heretics

[Marymog]

Mary. I trust you have seen a professional for your medicine needs.

Your character (or lack thereof) shines in this post Wrangler....congratulations

I see that I have gotten under your skin

When you lay your head down in bed tonight I hope you think of me kiddo....

God bless......Mary

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Have not all of you disagreed with each other in various posts? There is my proof kiddo.

Were these people in Corinth, who were addressed by Paul, members of the Catholic Church you claim can be traced back to?

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Corinthians 1:10)

And Paul didn’t direct them to “the true church” but to be united amongst themselves.

 

[Illuminator]

I have a large book , in the library that was written by a catholic , WHO STILL is a catholic and who still supports it
And he had a lot of records of the popes . Yes , i read a book that was wrote by a catholic and supported the system .
And the popes DID often contradict the popes . Look at pope francis . DO ya really think he has not himself
contradicted other popes . I mean LOOK at what HE is teaching .

But you don't care what Pope Francis REALLY teaches.

THIS rubbish that all religoins serve the same GOD .

That's just your opinion. You have what amounts to sound bytes and carnival barkings. All religions, in some capacity, reach for God, but that does not mean they all serve the same God.

It is impossible for any pope to contradict what any previous pope has infallibly declared. Vatican II didn't change the Council of Trent, it reformulated the same things but with a more conciliar tone. Catholics are to regard all baptized in Christ as brothers ad sisters in the Lord. We hand you an olive branch and you spit on it.

NOT all popes would have agreed with that . THough vatican two supports such an idea
when it stated that muslims and christains worship the same GOD . I HOPE YOU KNOW that is A LIE .

Of course it is a lie, because it is not true.

DO YOU REALLY beleive that muslims , buddists and so on serve the same GOD we do

Being overly simplistic obscures the facts.

In the wake of 9/11 it has become more important than ever that Catholics have an accurate view of Islam. A starting point, though not the ending point, is reading what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say. It states, "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day" (CCC 841).

To understand this, one both has to look at the original context of the quote. The Catechism is not a freshly drafted document. It is in large measure a synthesis of other documents, and one has to look up quotations in the original sources to understand them fully. This is the case for the Catechism’s statement about Muslims, which is taken wholly from Vatican II.

Many find the first part of the quote perplexing: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims." To many this sounds like Muslims can be saved by adhering to Islam. That isn’t what it means, as shown by the original context.

If you look at Lumen Gentium (LG), the Vatican II document from which the quote is drawn, it becomes clear that the phrase is not meant to say that Islam is a method of salvation parallel to Christianity. The quote comes from LG 16, but it is part of a larger context in the document. To appreciate how it fits into the picture, one needs to go back at least as far as LG 13, which starts by proclaiming, "All men are called to belong to the new people of God"—i.e., to the Church. Section 13 concludes by stating, "All men are called to be part of this catholic unity of the people of God. . . . And in different ways to it belong, or are related: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, for all men are called by the grace of God to salvation."

All mankind is called to the "Catholic unity of the people of God"—in other words, to become Catholics. Some have done so, and so LG states that some "belong to" the Catholic Church while others are related to it "in different ways." Those who belong to it are "the Catholic faithful," while those who are related in various ways include "others who believe in Christ" (who are related to the Church in one way) and "all mankind" (who are related to the Church in a different way).

The next three sections of LG (14–16) are taken up with elaborating on these three groups.

LG 14 concerns itself with Catholics. It begins by stating: "This sacred council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. . . . Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved."

This of itself repudiates the idea that Islam or any other religions are as good as the Catholic Church. LG 15 turns to non-Catholic Christians and states, "The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety [e.g., Protestants] or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter [e.g., Orthodox]."

Note that it does not say that these Christians are part of the Church, only that they are "linked" to it many ways, some of which it then goes on to name (Scripture, faith in Christ, baptism). While noting that God works among them, LG does not say that it is okay for them to remain where they are: "In all of Christ's disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and he prompts them to pursue this end." In other words, God’s grace leads them toward becoming Catholics too.

After this, the attentive reader will scarcely find it plausible that LG is going to present non-Christian religions as on a par with the Church, and it doesn’t.

LG 16 turns to the case of non-Christians, stating, "Finally, those who have not yet received the gospel are related in various ways to the people of God." The section speaks of the Jewish people in the first place, for they are more closely related to the Church than any other non-Christian religion. It is only after this that the text states, "But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims." Note that the subject under discussion is not everyone who is saved. The overarching theme of the passage is how various people are related to the Catholic Church, not how many paths to salvation there are. The Council has been describing people who are progressively more distant from the Church. The Council has already stated that the Church is necessary for salvation. And since it expressly places non-Jewish theists in a distant position from the Church, when we encounter the statement that "the plan of salvation also includes," we should not understand it as saying that non-Jewish theists are saved.

It means that God desires their salvation and has made plans for their salvation—plans that include giving them graces that lead in the direction of salvation and the Church. But that doesn’t mean that they can be saved by being nothing more than non-Jewish theists.

continued...

 

[Illuminator]

continued from post #1463

Within the category of non-Jewish theists, Muslims today hold the first place in that they are the largest such group and have a number of commonalities with Judaism and Christianity, several of which the council goes on to note:

(1) They "profess to hold the faith of Abraham." The operative word here is "profess"—they claim to hold the faith of Abraham. In reality, their faith is an imperfect version of the faith that comes from Abraham, but they are trying to follow in the footsteps of Abraham, and the Council gives them credit for that.

(2) "Together with us they adore the one, merciful God." For many, this statement is perplexing. God is aware of and acknowledges all that is good and true in the worship offered to him, however imperfect an understanding of him a worshiper may have. While Muslims, like Jews, do not accept the Trinity, they do acknowledge that God is the only true God and that he is merciful. This means that they honor things that are true about God but have a limited understanding of him.

Christians have a fuller understanding of God because he has revealed more to us about himself: specifically, that he is a Trinity. This doctrine cannot be deduced by human reason; it can only be known by revelation.

Failure to accept this revelation of the Christian age does not stop Muslims from worshiping God any more than it stops Jews. It means only that they know less about God and that they have erroneous corollary ideas (for instance, that Jesus is not the Son of God).

To make clear how this works, allow me to take an example from pop culture: Suppose that you and I both knew millionaire Bruce Wayne. I might know, because he revealed it to me, that he is also Batman. You may hear this claim and reject it, in which case you adopt the false corollary belief "Batman is not Bruce Wayne." That does not mean that you don’t know and relate to either Bruce or Batman, it means only that you misunderstand the relationship between them.

In the same way, one may worship God and honor Jesus as a prophet (which he was) without understanding that Jesus is God. Indeed, many people in his own day did that: They knew the historical Jesus but had a false understanding of his identity.

Muslims recognize that God is "mankind’s judge on the last day." This is another link they have to biblical faith. Muslims may have erroneous ideas about some of the things that will occur before, after, or around this event, but that much they have right.

Additional elements of truth that Muslims have are listed in another conciliar document (Nostra Aetate 3), but in no place does the Council indicate that Islam—or Judaism or any non-Christian religion—is a path of salvation. There may be elements of truth in these religions, and God may give his grace to whomever he wants, non-Christian religions aren’t vehicles of salvation.

Some in these religions can be saved, but not because of their religions. This is underlined in the document Dominus Jesus that was released by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 2000.

According to the document, "It would be contrary to the faith to consider the Church as one way of salvation alongside those constituted by the other religions, seen as complementary to the Church or substantially equivalent to her" (DJ 21).

Further, "If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation" (DJ 22).

There should be no doubt that the Church recognizes that followers of Islam have elements of truth. But while it is possible for them—as for all men—to be saved if they live up to the light God has given them, it cannot be said that Islam is a path of salvation or that Muslims do not need to become Christians.

Read more: https://www.catholicfidelity.com/the-catechism-on-islam-by-james-akin/

 

[Illuminator]

Were these people in Corinth, who were addressed by Paul, members of the Catholic Church you claim can be traced back to?

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Corinthians 1:10)

And Paul didn’t direct them to “the true church” but to be united amongst themselves.

This statement is absurd, because Paul is addressing the true Church not to have divisions. What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. This is precisely why I reject Protestantism,
because all fail the test of allegiance to God’s Word in Holy Scripture, and the historical pedigree that the fathers always taught was necessary. Every heretic in the history of the world thumbed their nose at the institutional Church and went by Scripture alone. It is the heretical worldview to do so, precisely because they know they can’t prove that their views were passed down through history in an unbroken succession.

Therefore, heresies and Protestantism either had to play games with history in order to pretend that it fits with their views, or ignore it altogether.

We believe in faith that the Church is infallible and indefectible, based on many biblical indications. It is theoretically possible (speaking in terms of philosophy or epistemology) that the Church could stray and have to be rejected, but the Bible rules that out. We believe in faith that it has not and will not.

Protestants don’t have enough faith to believe that God could preserve an infallible Church, even though they can muster up even more faith than that, which is required to believe in an infallible Bible written by a bunch of sinners and hypocrites.

We simply have more faith than you guys do. It’s a supernatural gift. We believe that the authoritative Church is also a key part of God’s plan to save the souls of men. We follow the model of the (infallible) Jerusalem Council, whereas you guys reject that or ignore it, because it doesn’t fit in with the man-made tradition of Protestantism and a supposedly non-infallible Church.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

This statement is absurd, because Paul is addressing the true Church not to have divisions.

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions

No it was not.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Among you CATHOLICS!

which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism

Yet I showed by scripture that division was a problem within the true church!

It’s not a thing Protestants introduced!

And I’m not a Protestant!

 

[Wrangler]

First, "RCC" is as inaccurate as it is annoying, and has been explained repeatedly why it is so.

You can explain as much as you want to what is not true but it doesn't make it true. Roman Catholic Church - New World Encyclopedia

The Roman Catholic Church or Catholic Church is the Christian Church in full communion with the Bishop of Rome​

It makes it annoying.

 

[Philip James]

Yet I showed by scripture that division was a problem within the true church!

It’s not a thing Protestants introduced

Of course, division and factionalism has always been a problem.
Those who refuse to be corrected by the Church, either leave or are excommunicated from the community.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Pax et Bonum

 

[Wrangler]

That's just your opinion. You have what amounts to sound bytes and carnival barkings. All religions, in some capacity, reach for God, but that does not mean they all serve the same God.

A distinction without a difference. If you think Allah, who commands its followers to seize and kill Jews and Christians, is the same God as YHWH, think again!

 

[amigo de christo]

Lol.....Have not all of you disagreed with each other in various posts? There is my proof kiddo.

Let's settle it all right now with one simple question: Amigo do you agree with everything @Wrangler @Ferris Bueller @Brakelite has written?

Both you and I already know the answer to that kiddo.....

Have a great day.....

I have no idea everything wrangler teaches nor ferris . Brakelite knows i disagree with the SDA . He already knows that .
If folks would just return to the simpicity of the scriptures . Too many men came and taught far too many contradictions along the way .
Some are flat out deadly and dangerous while other teachings are just off in areas .
You should see the divisions within catholicism , yep they exist within the protestant realm too .
IT sure would be a lot easier if folks just stuck to what was orginally taught in scripture . Then we could clear up some things .
BUT so long as men just blindly sit under calvin , the CC , or whatever , they are in dire danger on some things .
True christanity , true religion is so simple . IT so sad many men have made complicated what should have been a simple walk .
But men have always desired the pre eminence and many men have always desired to make desciples of them own selves .
ITS really very sad to watch it . My advice is folks need to return to the simplicity of CHRIST and truly learn
What HE taught and what the true apostels IN the bible had left us to read . WOULD have been so much simplier .
But as i said , MANY men have long desired to LORD over the flocks and to have the praise of men
and sit in long robes and have men kiss their rings . What started in the CC didnt end in the CC either .
MANY men who fled the CC THEN TURNED RIGHT AROUND AND bascially did the same thing . THUS sayeth THE ME , now kiss my ring
or etc . Too bad folks wont just return to the original truth left to us in the bible and learn THAT JESUS
and learn that doctrine . WOULD have been so much simplier . But no , even within the protestant realm
their schools of theology are to simply twist men to their own teachings . IT seems to never end . SO sad really .

 

[amigo de christo]

A distinction without a difference. If you think Allah, who commands its followers to seize and kill Jews and Christians, is the same God as YHWH, think again!

Illuminator will agree with anything his pope teaches or his church does . Its the way it is with some .
As for me , I am simply gonna test ALL men against the scriptural truth . We should have stuck in and to the scriptures .
IT sure would have been much simplier . Its so sad to watch it . It really is .

 

[Wrangler]

Lol.....Have not all of you disagreed with each other in various posts? There is my proof kiddo.

Both you and I already know the answer to that kiddo.....

Your use of the word 'kiddo' shows you are not in Christ.


Love each other as brothers and sisters and honor others more than you do yourself.
Rom 12:10 CEV

 

[amigo de christo]

A distinction without a difference. If you think Allah, who commands its followers to seize and kill Jews and Christians, is the same God as YHWH, think again!

Illuminator seems to have forgotten what JESUS HIMSELF once said
to even the JEWS who did not believe in HIM . HE said IF you believe not that i am HE you will die in your sins .
JESUS even told THE JEWS who had the blessed torah THAT . Even paul said the unbeliving jews worship GOD in ignorance
Paul knew that if folks did not beleive in CHRIST that whether they were jew or gentile they followed satan .
OF whom we all once followed satan . See CHRIST and the apostels knew that there truly is only one GOD
and that the only way to GOD IS IN THE SON . OH wait muslims say GOD has no SON . SO how on earth do they worship
the same GOD WE DO . IF JESUS even told the unbelieving jews they were of their father the DEVIL
what on earth makes illuminator think they worship the same GOD WE DO .
JESUS made something very clear and paul echoes it .
THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING . HE told even the unbelieving jews they were not truly of ABRAHAM .
SO just cause the muslims claim to be of Abraham , THE FLESH STILL PROFITS NOTHING .
IT was not in ISHAMEL shall thy seed be called , IT WAS IN ISSAC and that SEED IS JESUS CHRIST .
IF paul even said the unbelieving jews are not the true children o GOD , HOW ON EARTH can the muslims be .
SEE the vatican desires a one world religoin and illuminator has no idea who is behind this one world religion
NOR who its leading all right too . THE DRAGON . ONLY THE DRAGON would tell the world
YE Dont have to beleive in CHRIST to be saved , JUST merge as one and have love and do good works and have unity . HE IS A LIAR
and does not love his captives . SEE the devil knows how to decieve . ONLY IN CHRIST can we resist his lies .
A mindset that many no longer even believe . FOLKS are gonna all stand before CHRIST one day
and I fear for those whose desire for power and control led them to lie to all the religoins and say YE ARE OF GOD
and we all of GOD and all is well so long as you love one another . Satan is decieving them all .
And many within even the protestant realm are now under his we are one unity deceptoin . THE GOSPEL has been hijacked
and sold out for a lie . A lie of a false love that wont tell those other religoins of their dire need to repent and beleive in CHRIST .
NOPE it jus says COMEON HOME WE ARE ONE NOW . What a lie that is . What a lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

Everyone will stand before CHRIST . My advice is stop hijacking the gospel for the vatican and popes
lie they are sellling the world . AND woe wail to the many sold out within the protestant realm who now buy that lie .
They hijacked the one true gospel and replaced it with this false love we are one gospel that saves NONE .
Preach JESUS to the end my friends and never sell out to the lie of this social engineered all inclusive we are one lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you have a title? Or a link? Or the authors name? Please do share.



There is only One God. I know little of buddhists, but Muslims worship the God of Abraham.

Is the One God not the God of Abraham?

Pax et Bonum

Lord willing when i get back into the library i will try to find it again . IT was a recorded history of the popes .
Its a big ol book . I cant remember the title or the author . I read it years ago .
But if i find it i will write down the title and the author for you . You should read it .
He recorded the popes . Well he had no history , he admits of peter and the others up till about the year
i think it was in the two hundreds . I cant remember . But what was recorded he wrote it down .
This is one long book too . It had times of two popes , one was recognized the other was not
wars and blood shed too . HE was honest about it . THOUGH I do disagree with his opinion .
At least you can read it and see the often contradictions and even the blood shed involved at times .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus started The Church. Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Your men have taught you that every Christian is 'the church'!

Yes! My men, the authors of the Bible, say that the church is the body of Christ.

"18And He is the head of the body, the church;" Colossians 1:18​

I am a member of the body of Christ. So, I, along with all my believing, born again brothers and sisters - members of the body of Christ - are the church. Go ahead, read the verse I just posted and tell me I'm wrong.

You have admitted that you are still growing in the Truth and you do not know all the Truth's of Scripture.

At this point I don't know if what I don't know for sure is something that can be known, for there are some things that God has not revealed. But everything else, I got a pretty good handle on it. And I got to that point by listening to others and reading the Bible and letting the Holy Spirit convict me as to what I've heard is truth and what is not. Is that process done yet? I don't know, but it's pretty far along. I've been a devout, inquisitive, listening, learning Christian for 36 years.

It is a process and maybe, someday, as you grow wiser you will know all the Truth.

Becoming wiser is the outcome of learning the truths of the Bible, not the prerequisite for learning the truths of the Bible. Humility and a pure and open heart is how you learn the truths of the Bible via the discernment of the Holy Spirit.

You have also said (I can't remember your exact words) that there are only a few chosen that are real Christians; the true believers.

Yeah, I probably did say that somewhere, because that's what the Bible says:

"13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14​

So, please, as a devout Catholic, continue to brag about the vastness and popularity of your Catholic empire thinking that indicates the correctness and approval by God of your religion. Meanwhile, I'll go with what Jesus said and understand that the true people of God are few in number. See, if you would stop focusing on the narrowness and meaninglessness of the Catholic agenda and would read and seek out all that the Bible/Holy Spirit has to teach you you'd discover these truths for yourself in the pages of your very own Bible, and you would be able to test the accuracy of those who claim to know the truth for you. All genuinely saved, born again people have the anointing to do that. So stop listening to your men that say God's people do not have that. The Bible says born again people do! Are you going to listen to the Apostle John about the discernment believers have, or your men who contradict him?

Since, by your own admittance, YOU still do not know the truth and you are still growing/learning that truth....you are not one of the chosen ones and you are NOT one of the true believers. Only the true believers KNOW the truth.

I'm well into my journey towards maturity and the knowledge of the Son of God and the truths of Christianity (Ephesians 4:13). I have in fact been chosen by God for salvation by virtue of my faith in God's forgiveness. If you knew the scriptures you'd know that knowledge of truth is a journey that begins the moment you are born again. And it is His chosen ones that will go on to know that truth. I'm well on my way. And that journey has exposed the Catholic religion as a false and corrupted version of Christianity.

You have also thanked God for the division that the Protestant Revolution caused.

Every day.
Division is useful to know who to stay away from. For example, I know to never even bother to inquire of the Catholic church in matters of truth. The great chasm between Catholics and non-Catholics keeps the corruption of the Catholic from secretly and deceitfully lurking among God's people in the non-Catholic churches. IOW, the poison of their theology is safely on the other side of the great chasm between us and them where it can not secretly and discreetly work it's deadly work among us. Division brings it out into the open. Thank you God that it is safely isolated away from us true believers and readily visible to us for what it is!

Division does not come from God.

In the context of what we're talking about here, who told you that?
We're supposed to separate ourselves from the false! Who told you that we are to mingle with false brethren and their false doctrines????

There is only one divider of Christianity and that is Satan. So, you are actually thanking Satan for the division in Christianity.

If Catholicism was actually true Christianity you'd be correct. But as it is, Catholicism has been tested by the pages of the Bible and found to be a corrupt, false, pagan version of Christianity, the same way Jeroboam's Samarian worship was a corrupt, false, pagan version of Judaism.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Scripture says that we are to go to the church to settle our differences. Once again, your men have taught you that every christians IS the church.

Can't you see right from the passage that the matter is able to be settled just between the offender and the offendee??? You only take it before the whole church if the person refuses to acknowledge his offense between you and a couple of other believers. And it goes before the whole congregation (the church) so everybody as a whole can shun this individual and know why they are doing it, not necessarily because the 'church' is the leadership with some kind of privileged superpower to put the man out of fellowship with the body. A single person themselves can end fellowship with the erring person, and should! That power does not belong solely to an elite leadership as you Catholics think and fear!

But that theory you have been taught makes no sense.

No, it makes perfect sense because it's right from the very words of the Bible! You don't get it because you can't see it through the indoctrination of your Catholic theology. And you apparently don't want to see it! That is the most regrettable part of this for you! You obviously do not have an open, teachable spirit. If you did you'd see I'm just saying what the passage plainly says. But instead, you insist on ignoring the words of Jesus and deferring to your elite leadership. Quite pathetic!

If every Christian is the church then that means when I confront my brother that sins against me and he disagrees with me that means he (the church) is disagreeing with me (also the church). I then go and get 2 other members (2 other churches) and 3 churches are telling the one church they are wrong. If my brother (the church) disagrees with the 3 of us (3 churches) then we are to take that difference to the church (which is now the 5th church in this scenario) and the 5th church is to decide if he is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector.

How stupid. Do you go around saying to your cardinal, or bishop, "hi, church!" No, of course you don't. I know you're just being obnoxious and difficult and know that I've said repeatedly that each individual believer is a member of the church, the body of Christ. So go back and take out all that foolishness from your post above and try it again.

I know you will never admit how ridiculous how that scenario is OR how it is not what Scripture teaches OR how Christianity has worked for 2,000 years.

Why don't you listen!
Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30 shows us close proximity to the time of the original Apostles means NOTHING as to whether or not a doctrine is correct! Start listening! I still think you're smart enough to see through the fallacies you've been indoctrinated with. I really do! Grow a spine and tell the Catholic leadership to talk to the hand and that you, and fellow seeking believers, and the Holy Spirit are going to get the truth about all these things, and that you do not need them to tell you what is truth and what is not. You're here in a good place for that to happen. You can learn from us. You're trapped in the indoctrination and fear of the Catholic church! We're not, and we're going to speak very openly and frankly and honestly about these things. You can learn from that! Don't be afraid!

Your men have twisted eating/drinking Him on a daily basis into reading Scripture on a daily basis. He said it IS His body/blood. Your men have taught you it isn't. Paul said eating/drinking IS a participation in the body/blood of Christ; your men have taught you it isn't.

If your men were spiritually smart they'd realize that to believe what they do about what Jesus and Paul say about eating the wine and the bread they'd also have to believe that to eat meat sacrificed to an idol is actually eating a demon. Which, of course, is absurd. That's how we know that Jesus and Paul did not mean the elements are actual flesh and blood. Think, M, think! It's right there for you to see. Let the Holy Spirit teach you!

So, with all that said, I can no longer take you and your men serious.

Good luck....Mary

I've explained everything to you. But until you have the courage to confront the fear of your Catholic leadership and the supposed power they hold over your soul (trust me, they do not have that power) you just aren't going to see and accept anything other than what they order you to believe (or else, lol!). They are toothless. Start thinking for yourself and avail yourself of the guidance and discernment of the Holy Spirit that the Apostle John himself said you have. They can't keep you from communion with God through the blood and body of Christ. Your faith keeps you securely in the life giving sustenance of Christ's sacrifice. No priest has control over your access to the efficaciousness of Christ's sacrifice. Your faith does that. Telling you the wine and bread is the actual blood and body of Christ, then threatening to withhold Him from you by denying you the elements if you don't submit to them is a joke. Your faith in the sacrifice of Jesus on the altar in heaven does what they tell you they and their bread and wine does for you.

 

[Illuminator]

No it was not.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Among you CATHOLICS!

Yes, the Corinthians were Catholics. Paul was a Catholic. Romans 1:8 - "whole world". Greek: kata holos. Latin: Catholicus, English: Catholic. It's one of 4 divine characteristics; One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. If you reject the Nicene Creed, you can't really claim to be a Christian. Half Christian, maybe.

Yet I showed by scripture that division was a problem within the true church!

Yes, that's why Paul told them not to have divisions.

It’s not a thing Protestants introduced!

Thousands if different denominations since the start of the Protestant revolt says otherwise. Calvin disagreed with Luther on many points, and you guys have been dividing ever since.

And I’m not a Protestant!

So you have no bishops. You can call yourself anything you like, but your fundie ideas can only be traced back to 500 years at best.
What part of "joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” don't you understand?

His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church’s official teachers—the pope and the bishops united with him—have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?

 

[Illuminator]

Your use of the word 'kiddo' shows you are not in Christ.
Love each other as brothers and sisters and honor others more than you do yourself.
Rom 12:10 CEV

"kiddo" is a term of endearment, my Pharisaical friend.

 

[Brakelite]

Its not correct my friend . JESUS entered in long ago . Just cause they have some truths about a day for a year .
WHICH IS TRUE , dont mean what they teach is true . Please flee it my friend .
I have long known by reading the holy scrips that GOD often used a day to represent a year .
Remember when GOD had the prophet lay on his side for three hundred days and then on his left side for forty days .
Each day represented a year . BUT this in no way justifies a false teaching that JESUS enterered into the holiest of holies
in eighteen hundred and forty four . I can make anything up by using truths to justify a lie . THIS aint new at all .
Please flee that teaching my friend . i already know what day the sabbath is on and i know who changed it .
I also know let each man be fully persuaded in his own mind . The adventists did have some solid truths
but the scary thing is , SO did the JEHOVA witnesses . WE just have to learn to follow THE WHOLE TRUTH .
DID you know that most JW and even most adventist thought i knew that bible well .
I could see when the preached truth , BUT i can also see when their is error . NOW i aint nothing , so dont think i am boasting in me .
GOD giveth and HE PUT ME IN the bible . DID you know , by grace , that is THE ONLY BOOK i have read for hours daily
every day , for over SIXTEEN years now . AND YET even i say TEST ALL THINGS I DO SAY .
But i am telling us all , THAT IS THE BOOK WE need to GET BACK INTO .
IF we just read the bible and stayed in it , THINGS could have been cleared up so fast .
THE problem is so many have learned things from whatever denomination they sat under
and thus its a war zone trying to get folks to return to the simple truth .
IF we all started over as simple babes in the bible , IT WOULD NOT TAKE LONG at all
to find and to agree upon the truth . Please abandon the investigative judgment thing .
AND REMEMBER i have ZERO problem with what day one has church on . I also KNOW the sabbath is on fri evening to sat evening .
BUT i also know let each man be fully persuaded in his own mind concerning MEATS DRINKS and DAYS .
WE need to be learning RIGHTEOUNESS and exposing what is evil . THE CC is evil . I Dont say that to be mean or hateful .
I just say it cause its true . My desire is only good for people . SO i say lets return to just and i mean JUST the BIBLE
then we can examine to see what each believes About the bible . But so long as folks preach their denominational teachings
its gonna be a war zone . BUT if we simply taught the scriptures , YOU would be amazed at how fast f
folks can learn the truth . ITS NOT DIFFICULT . IT dont take a wise mind or some scholar or etc to understand the scriptures .
IT simply is about trusting in GOD , in CHRIST and learning THE BIBLICAL VERSION OF SAID GOD of said CHRIST
and of said apostels . FROM There the peoples would grow .

Then you need to work out what actually did happen in 1844. Because as I said, the date is solid. "Unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed". Daniel 8:14. If the Adventists have got it wrong as you believe, then what is the explanation of that verse?