Spotting Heretics

[Ferris Bueller]

Since you KNOW that "The RCC isn't the perfect doctrine true church." then which church fits the perfect doctrine?

And there's your problem. You think the church is the organization with the perfect and approved doctrine and worship methodology. The Bible says the church is all the born again saved believers, the members of Christ's body. It's not an official organization of perfect creeds and doctrines and theologies and worship practices. It was barely that in the very beginning, lol! How much less so now after all these centuries of corruption and the suppression of truth. Corruption that Paul himself said was on the heels of his own ministry and would ravage the church like wolves.

 

[Marymog]

And there's your problem. You think the church is the organization with the perfect and approved doctrine and worship methodology.

Let me debunk that lie your men have taught you that there is no "perfect and approved doctrine":

Titus 2;1 and 1:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, 1 Timothy 6:3-5, 2 Timothy 4:3, 2 Timothy 3:16

Let me destroy your theory that there is no "worship methodology" and show you what worship methodology us true Christians have been doing since the death of Christ:

Psalm 95:6, Acts 2:42 and 46, 1 Cor. 16:2, Luke 22:19, Acts 20:7, Col. 3:16

Now I could go on and on and on and keep destroying your OPINION....but I won't. Notice how I gave MULTIPLE passages from Scripture to show you what us true Christians do and believe and you gave me....well, you gave me........................................... your opinion.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus said he was building his church upon Peter and he gave Peter the keys to heaven and the authority to bind and loosen.

The confession that Jesus is the Messiah is what the church is founded in. Peter merely spoke this truth.

Since you KNOW that "The RCC isn't the perfect doctrine true church." then which church fits the perfect doctrine?

Putting aside your ongoing confusion between a denomination and a church, Your question pre-supposes there is an answer. Most don’t even know the doctrines of all the denominations.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Let me debunk that lie your men have taught you that there is no "perfect and approved doctrine":

Shame on you, lol. I did not say there is no perfect and approved doctrine. I said that's not the defining mark of the members of Christ's body, the church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Now I could go on and on and on and keep destroying your OPINION....but I won't. Notice how I gave MULTIPLE passages from Scripture to show you what us true Christians do and believe and you gave me....well, you gave me........................................... your opinion.

And you did not even address what I said with all your scriptures, lol.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

If you look to the old testament you'll see that Jesus was the Rock in prophecy.
That Jesus observed Peters name was translated as the rock is a corrolary. Jesus is the rock because belief in Peter does not save.


All the apostles were vested with the right to bring the gospel message and lead people to find forgiveness and salvation in Christ.

Hey Dragonfly,

You have been more articulate than @amigo de christo @Ferris Bueller @Wrangler on this subject and I appreciate it. The article you linked by Pastor Luis Ángel Díaz-Pabón is a common Protestant way to look at what a church is. He pointed out what ekklesia means. Where he failed is he didn't put all of Scripture into context on what a church is or what The Church is.

The very first passage from Scripture he mentions Matthew 16:18 to support his theory on what a church is. However, as you noticed (if you read the article), he didn't address the passage in context. IN CONTEXT Jesus said he was building his church upon Peter and he gave Peter the keys to heaven and the authority to bind and loosen. Jesus later gave the authority to bind/loosen to the other Apostles. My question to you is if Peter and the Apostles, who are members of the church and have the authority to bind and loosen along with the keys to heaven, does that mean ALL members of the church have that same authority?

Also in that passage Jesus says that the gates of hell will not prevail against His church. Putting Pastor Diaz-Pabon's theory into practice, does that mean that the gates of hell will not prevail against each individual “assembly,” “congregation,” or “meeting”? Do you Blue Dragonfly believe that the gates of hell have prevailed against some churches? If you believe that Satan has prevailed against some churches then Jesus lied. If you believe Satan has not prevailed against some churches, then what are we to do with the churches that teach that gay marriage and abortion are condoned by God?

Later in the article he writes: "Today, the church is exactly what God stated: the house of God, the pillar and foundation of the truth,..."! But that doesn't make sense. If, as he stated earlier, the church is just an “assembly,” “congregation,” or “meeting” then which “assembly,” “congregation,” or “meeting” is the pillar and foundation of truth. The meeting in his basement that @amigo de christo attends? The assembly of all true believers that @Ferris Bueller goes to occasionaly? Or the denomination that @Wrangler visits but disagrees with on some things? All three can't be the pillar of truth so Pastor Diaz-Pabon did not think that one out very well.....but you seem to agree with his article/theory??????

The pastor briefly touches on elders, deacons etc but he does not put into context what their role is in the church. Scripture makes it clear that we are to obey are elders and they are worthy of double honor and they were selected by the Holy Spirit etc etc! So I wonder what elder Pastor Pabon obeys? I am willing to bet HE is the elder that everyone else to obey in his church and he is worthy of double honor.....but I could be wrong.

Pastor Luis Ángel Díaz-Pabón's is a hypocrite. Did you find it in his article Dragonfly? So you quote an article from a man who is hypocrite on what he preaches but you put down the Pope on what he preaches?

Since you KNOW that "The RCC isn't the perfect doctrine true church." then which church fits the perfect doctrine?

Curious Mary

 

[Wrangler]

and he gave Peter the keys to heaven and the authority to bind and loosen.

It’s interesting that you admit this for 2 reasons.

1st, who is Jesus to give Peter these keys? God gave these keys to Jesus, who in turn, gave them to the Apostles. Proof that they, in turn, did not have the power to subsequently give the keys is the lack of continued performing of miracles. This is agency.

2nd, Peter is not the only Apostle who was given such authority. So, he’s not unique in that regard.

 

[Marymog]

It’s interesting that you admit this for 2 reasons.

1st, who is Jesus to give Peter these keys? God gave these keys to Jesus, who in turn, gave them to the Apostles. Proof that they, in turn, did not have the power to subsequently give the keys is the lack of continued performing of miracles. This is agency.

2nd, Peter is not the only Apostle who was given such authority. So, he’s not unique in that regard.

Nope, Jesus did NOT give the keys to the Apostles (plural). He gave them to Peter only: Matthew 16:19

You should learn Scripture before giving your opinion on it.

 

[Marymog]

If you look to the old testament you'll see that Jesus was the Rock in prophecy.
That Jesus observed Peters name was translated as the rock is a corrolary. Jesus is the rock because belief in Peter does not save.


All the apostles we're vested with the right to bring the gospel message and lead people to find forgiveness and salvation in Christ.

Who ever said that belief in Peter will save us? Who said that all the Apostles were not "vested with the right to bring the gospel message and lead people to find forgiveness and salvation in Christ"? You are trying to argue something with me that I never said and The Church has never taught.

Jesus is the rock. Jesus called Peter "rock". Did Jesus call anyone else a rock? (no)

Jesus was in possession of the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Who is the only person he gave those keys to? Do you know the signigicance of the keys? If you were a 1st century Jew you would.

To downplay Peter as not having primacy over the rest of the Apostles after the death of Christ goes against what Scripture says!

 

[Marymog]

And you did not even address what I said with all your scriptures, lol.

Every passage DESTROYED your opinion....but your men have blinded you: Matthew 15:14, Luke 6:39

 

[Marymog]

Shame on you, lol. I did not say there is no perfect and approved doctrine. I said that's not the defining mark of the members of Christ's body, the church.

Sound doctrine, or true doctrine, IS the "defining mark of the members of Christ's body, the church". Sound doctrine is taught by sound men in a sound church.

Unsound doctrine, or a false doctrine, is taught by unsound men who tickle the ears of other men and twist Scripture to their destruction and the men's who's ears have been tickled.

ONCE AGAIN your opinion has been destroyed......

 

[Marymog]

Putting aside your ongoing confusion between a denomination and a church, Your question pre-supposes there is an answer. Most don’t even know the doctrines of all the denominations.

Kiddo...I am not confused. A denomination is any one of the thousands of churches that have broken away from The Church that Jesus spoke of in Scripture. A small example of broken/fallen away churches are Lutherans, Methodist, Baptists, SDA's, Mormons, Joes bible only church started by a guy who had enough money to build his own building and call it a church etc etc.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo lets try this again dodgeball (of which you regularly do): Since you KNOW that "The RCC isn't the perfect doctrine true church" then which church fits the perfect doctrine?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sound doctrine, or true doctrine, IS the "defining mark of the members of Christ's body, the church". Sound doctrine is taught by sound men in a sound church.

Unsound doctrine, or a false doctrine, is taught by unsound men who tickle the ears of other men and twist Scripture to their destruction and the men's who's ears have been tickled.

ONCE AGAIN your opinion has been destroyed......

You're living in a non-Biblical fantasy land if you think every born again, saved person by virtue of being born again possesses perfect, sound doctrine, when the Bible plainly shows us that simply is not true. We're all growing and maturing up into that knowledge.

Like I say, your fundamental problem is you can't get it out of your head that the church is an organization. It's not. That's why you can't grasp any of this. You are blinded by your Catholic indoctrination.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nope, Jesus did NOT give the keys to the Apostles (plural). He gave them to Peter only: Matthew 16:19

You should learn Scripture before giving your opinion on it.

Oy vey, lol...

"18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19

"18Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Matthew 18:18​

"21Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” 22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” John 20:21-23
​

The power of binding and loosing was given to "them".
Don't be so arrogant about Bible knowledge. Just say what you think is true and leave room for there to be something in scripture you did not know about, like in this case. Boasting will just get you in trouble.

 

[amigo de christo]

The confession that Jesus is the Messiah is what the church is founded in. Peter merely spoke this truth.



Putting aside your ongoing confusion between a denomination and a church, Your question pre-supposes there is an answer. Most don’t even know the doctrines of all the denominations.

My question is when did peter go from warning even cornelious to get up and not kneel before him , for he was but a man
TO sitting on a throne and having folks KNEEL before him and kiss his ring . Sounds to me
like what paul tried to warn was coming , indeed did come and thus the CC was born . For men crept in
who loved the pre eminence and flooded the place with all sorts of doctrines
that led them far away from CHRIST , who said call no man reverand . These folks have titles such as most reverand father
most holy father . The very thing JESUS had warned his very own apostels to beware .
Beware of men who go i long robes and love the pre emenince and love the praise of men . PETER HIMSELF
had learned from CHRIST and this is why he had cornelious GET UP and not kneel before a mere man , AS EVEN HE himself called himself .
The CC is full of long robed men who have loved titles as vicar of Christ , of most holy father , of reverand and most holy reverand .
THEY loveth the praise and worship of men . ITS clearly seen .

 

[Wrangler]

Nope, Jesus did NOT give the keys to the Apostles (plural). He gave them to Peter only:

In the verse you cite but are there no other verses where the Apostles, plural, where given authority along with Peter?

Would it change your idolatry of the RCC if I produced such verses? It’s so funny how you rely on Scripture as your authority when it is convenient.

 

[amigo de christo]

In the verse you cite but are there no other verses where the Apostles, plural, where given authority along with Peter?

Would it change your idolatry of the RCC if I produced such verses? It’s so funny how you rely on Scripture as your authority when it is convenient.

If they would read corinthians they would see that both paul and the church had that power .
They delivered one over unto satan for destruction of the flesh . Even paul had it as did others .

 

[Wrangler]

If they would read corinthians they would see that both paul and the church had that power

I know there are such verses. This sad exchange shows the heretic @Marymog using Scripture to pervert Gods word in worship of her idol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

My question is when did peter go from warning even cornelious to get up and not kneel before him , for he was but a man
TO sitting on a throne and having folks KNEEL before him and kiss his ring . Sounds to me
like what paul tried to warn was coming , indeed did come and thus the CC was born . For men crept in
who loved the pre eminence and flooded the place with all sorts of doctrines
that led them far away from CHRIST , who said call no man reverand . These folks have titles such as most reverand father
most holy father . The very thing JESUS had warned his very own apostels to beware .
Beware of men who go i long robes and love the pre emenince and love the praise of men . PETER HIMSELF
had learned from CHRIST and this is why he had cornelious GET UP and not kneel before a mere man , AS EVEN HE himself called himself .
The CC is full of long robed men who have loved titles as vicar of Christ , of most holy father , of reverand and most holy reverand .
THEY loveth the praise and worship of men . ITS clearly seen .

This should make every Catholic take a hard look at the organization they adore and worship.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

My question is when did peter go from warning even cornelious to get up and not kneel before him , for he was but a man
TO sitting on a throne and having folks KNEEL before him and kiss his ring .

By letting men exalt themselves above that which is written. It’s not just the Catholics that do this though… many Protestants do the same without the religious garbs.

“And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” (1 Corinthians 4:6)