Spotting the Heretic

[RogerDC]

So than does grace end, does grace run out, is Gods Grace only so full or is it half empty,

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Yes, grace can end.

What does James mean when he says we are "justified by works"?

Why does Paul tell believers in Romans 6 that the "wages of sin is death"?

Why Does Paul warn believers in Gal 6 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

God's grace is conditional. Sin destroys grace - the more you sin, the less grace you are given. If you sin enough, your will destroy all your grace and end in Hell.

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes, grace can end.

What does James mean when he says we are "justified by works"?

Why does Paul tell believers in Romans 6 that the "wages of sin is death"?

Why Does Paul warn believers in Gal 6 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

God's grace is conditional. Sin destroys grace - the more you sin, the less grace you are given. If you sin enough, your will destroy all your grace and end in Hell.

Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

So sin is greater than Gods grace, are you saying that Gods power is less than that of sin to overcome.

 

[marks]

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying the answer to the problem of sin is to not resist the temptation to sin, but to give in and commit sin - because the blood of Jesus has covered all your sins.

NO . . . stop fighting against the sin, instead, stop doing anything at all except focusing your mind on God's ready presence, and His love for you, and His ability to delivery you, and just wait for the thoughts or feelings to pass as you keep your mind and thoughts on Jesus.

And that's what happens. The thoughts and feelings will pass, and you will remain clean with your mind set on God.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

If we say we don't sin, "" we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us (1John 1).

Actually, the words are, "If we say that we have no sin" which is referring to indwelling sin rather than practical sins....otherwise 1 John 1:8 is in contradiction to 1 John 3:5-9.

so how does your advice to live "by faith" help you to resist the temptation to sin?

In that, I obtain the Holy Ghost through faith (Galatians 3:14), the love of God is shed abroad in my heart through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5); and this love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within me (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4). Therefore, if I am not violating the law, because the law is fulfilled in me, I am not sinning. And this has to do with the fact that I walk according to God's love which I have received by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

What does James mean when he says we are "justified by works"?

He is saying that a man is justified by works before men...works do not bring justification or glory in the sight of God (Romans 4:2).

Sin destroys grace - the more you sin, the less grace you are given.

On the contrary, the Bible says:

Rom 5:20, Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

 

[RogerDC]

So, burn incense to the queen of heaven. Then read the book of Jeremiah.

So, your logic is, if there is a false "queen of heaven", there cannot be a true Queen of Heaven. According to your logic then, becuase there are false gods there cannot be a true God.

Furthermore, the "queen of heaven" in the book of Jeremiah was worshipped - Mary, the Queen of Heaven, is not worshipped. Her son, the King, is worshipped.
And did you notice that in Rev 12, the woman who is the mother of Jesus - Mary - is in Heaven and is wearing a crown. Hence she is royalty - the Queen of Heaven, in fact.

 

[RogerDC]

Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

So sin is greater than Gods grace, are you saying that Gods power is less than that of sin to overcome.

So the more you sin, the more grace you receive - hilarious! If you become full of sin, you will become full of grace - only an complete idiot would believe such pathetic nonsense! Try using a bit of common sense when interpreting scripture - it might save you some embarrassment.

If grace is not diminished by sin, why does Paul warn believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 that their sins can prevent them from inheriting the kingdom of heaven? Was does Paul warn believers in Romans 6 that "the wages of sin is death"?

James says faith without works (of obedience) is "dead" - in other words, sin (disobedience) kills grace, even if faith is present.

 

[mjrhealth]

James says faith without works (of obedience) is "dead" - in other words, sin (disobedience) kills grace, even if faith is present.

So let me get this straight, what we do is greater than Gods grace mercy and love?? in other words He is less than a man.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, your logic is, if there is a false "queen of heaven", there cannot be a true Queen of Heaven. According to your logic then, becuase there are false gods there cannot be a true God.

Furthermore, the "queen of heaven" in the book of Jeremiah was worshipped - Mary, the Queen of Heaven, is not worshipped. Her son, the King, is worshipped.
And did you notice that in Rev 12, the woman who is the mother of Jesus - Mary - is in Heaven and is wearing a crown. Hence she is royalty - the Queen of Heaven, in fact.

So, burn incense to the queen of heaven. Then go read the book of Jeremiah.

So the more you sin, the more grace you receive - hilarious! If you become full of sin, you will become full of grace - only an complete idiot would believe such pathetic nonsense! Try using a bit of common sense when interpreting scripture - it might save you some embarrassment.

See 1 Corinthians 1:18-21.

Yes, the Cross of Jesus Christ means that where sin abounds, grace abounds much more (Romans 5:20-21).

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm not certain that the queen of heaven in scripture was worshiped either. They burned incense to her...they didn't necessarily worship her.

 

[RogerDC]

NO . . . stop fighting against the sin, instead, stop doing anything at all except focusing your mind on God's ready presence, and His love for you, and His ability to delivery you, and just wait for the thoughts or feelings to pass as you keep your mind and thoughts on Jesus.

And that's what happens. The thoughts and feelings will pass, and you will remain clean with your mind set on God.

Try thinking realistically and logically, instead of Bible-babbling-. When you are tempted to sin, you are forced to make a choice between sinning and not sinning. You can call on the Lord for help. of course, but ultimately you must use your free will to decide between sinning and not sinning. How on earth do you resist temptation if you don't "fight against it"? You "fight against it" by using your free will, which is empowered by God's grace.

I keep coming across the bizarre notion on on forums like this that a believer should not ""fight against" the temptation to sin or use "self-effort" to resist sin. It's such nonsense.

 

[justbyfaith]

Try thinking realistically and logically, instead of Bible-babbling-. When you are tempted to sin, you are forced to make a choice between sinning and not sinning. You can call on the Lord for help. of course, but ultimately you must use your free will to decide between sinning and not sinning. How on earth do you resist temptation if you don't "fight against it"? You "fight against it" by using your free will, which is empowered by God's grace.

I keep coming across the bizarre notion on on forums like this that a believer should not ""fight against" the temptation to sin or use "self-effort" to resist sin. It's such nonsense.

God has said that when we are tempted He will provide a way of escape (1 Corinthians 10:13).

That way of escape, for some, is to simply focus on Jesus until the temptation passes.

Hope this helps.

 

[RogerDC]

So let me get this straight, what we do is greater than Gods grace mercy and love??

So let me get this straight - the more you sin, the more grace God gives you?? That is your inspired interpretation of Romans 5:20-21? Imagine that - the means of salvation by grace is sin, sin and more sin! This must be a joke - no one could possibly be so stupid as to believe such rubbish!

So let me get this straight, what we do is greater than Gods grace mercy and love??

Look at it that way if it helps. A better way to look at it is to believe what Paul says in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 - that a believers sins can prevent him from getting to Heaven - in other words, sin destroys grace.

Your theology is deeply flawed, that much is obvious. You think grace replaces God's justice, but you are wrong.

 

[RogerDC]

God has said that when we are tempted He will provide a way of escape (1 Corinthians 10:13).

That way of escape, for some, is to simply focus on Jesus until the temptation passes.

Hope this helps.

Resisting sin means making the choice not to sin. You can't make that choice without using your free will, whether you "focus on Jesus" or not. Grace doesn't need a conscious effort to "focus on Jesus" in order to work - it can work at a subconscious level.

 

[mjrhealth]

So let me get this straight - the more you sin, the more grace God gives you?? That is your idiotic interpretation of Romans 5:20-21? The means of salvation by grace is sin,s and more sin! This must be a joke - no one could possibly be so stupid as to believe such rubbish!
Look at it that way if it helps. A better way to look at it is to believe what Paul says in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 - that a believers sins can prevent him from getting to Heaven - in other words, sin destroys grace.

Your theology is deeply flawed, that much is obvious. You think grace replaces God's justice, but you are wrong.

No you see it is not grace that is limited it is men who Limits Gods grace, its ok for you but never enough for all the poor unfortunate who are not right in your eyes.

 

[RogerDC]

I'm not certain that the queen of heaven in scripture was worshiped either. They burned incense to her...they didn't necessarily worship her.

Do a little homework instead of making ignorant guesses:
"Queen of Heaven (antiquity) ...
Queen of Heaven was a title given to a number of ancient sky goddesses worshipped throughout the ancient Mediterranean and Near East during ancient times. Goddesses known to have been referred to by the title include Inanna, Anat, Isis, Ishtar, Astarte, and possibly Asherah (by the prophet Jeremiah). In Greco-Roman times, Hera and Juno bore this title. Forms and content of worship varied."
from Wikipedia.

 

[RogerDC]

Yes, the Cross of Jesus Christ means that where sin abounds, grace abounds much more (Romans 5:20-21).

Right, so according to your interpretation of that scripture, if you become full of sin, you will become full of grace. So the way to salvation by grace is sin - the more sin the better!

No doubt about it - you're re a genius!

 

[justbyfaith]

Do a little homework instead of making ignorant guesses:
"Queen of Heaven (antiquity) ...
Queen of Heaven was a title given to a number of ancient sky goddesses worshipped throughout the ancient Mediterranean and Near East during ancient times. Goddesses known to have been referred to by the title include Inanna, Anat, Isis, Ishtar, Astarte, and possibly Asherah (by the prophet Jeremiah). In Greco-Roman times, Hera and Juno bore this title. Forms and content of worship varied."
from Wikipedia.

I'm talking about the queen of heaven in the book of Jeremiah...I'm not certain that you can show me any verse where she is worshiped. Burned incense to, yes. Worshiped, no. Unless you can point out a verse where she is worshiped.

Right, so according to your interpretation of that scripture, if you become full of sin, you will become full of grace. So the way to salvation by grace is sin - the more sin the better!

No doubt about it - you're re a genius!

You are the genius that is misinterpreting that scripture.

"Where sin abounds, grace much more abounds" does not mean that sinning is a means of obtaining grace; but that grace is superabundant through faith in Jesus Christ even where sin is in excess. That He gives a "grace that is greater than all my sin"...

So that the logical misstep from there is that I should continue in sin so that grace may abound. Paul says, God forbid. For how shall we who have been made dead to sin live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

Grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life, Romans 5:21.

In Romans 4:5, to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

He justifies the ungodly? What kind of God would bestow such a scandalous grace on those who believe in Him?

In justifying them, He gives them a new identity that they are to live by. They are counted as righteous even when they commit ungodly deeds...and when they begin to lay hold of this identity, they will begin to live righteously.

 

[RogerDC]

No you see it is not grace that is limited it is men who Limits Gods grace

Oh, I see you've changed your tune now - you've gone from claiming that grace covers all sin ... to ... grace can be limited by sin. Well, at least you appear to have learnt something today. Now all you have to do is understand that sin can not only limit grace, sin can actually destroy grace altogether, so the graceless believer ends up in hell - as Paul warns believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6.

Btw, I never said grace is limited - God's grace is unlimited, but he doesn't give every believer unlimited grace.

it's okayf you but never enough for all the poor unfortunate who are not right in your eyes.

I have no idea what you're on about, but it sounds suspiciously like sour grapes to me. Don't blame for me if your interpretation of scripture is senseless and illogical.

 

[RogerDC]

I'm talking about the queen of heaven in the book of Jeremiah...I'm not certain that you can show me any verse where she is worshiped. Burned incense to, yes. Worshiped, no. Unless you can point out a verse where she is worshiped.

For Pete's sake- ou're getting desperateand silly now. Read Jeremiah 7:

"17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched!"

The text says "offerings unto other gods", which means "the queen of heaven" was one of those "gods".

If they weren't worshipping a false god, why did God get so angry with them, punishing them and their land and beasts with destruction?

If they were burning incense to and baking cakes as offerings for the queen of heaven, what were doing, if not worshipping a false god?

 

[justbyfaith]

So, you do not burn incense to Mary as the queen of heaven?

Mary was a sinful human being who needed Christ to be her Saviour...see Luke 6:47.

Therefore if you burn incense to her, or if other Catholics do; are they not worshiping a false god also?

I've never been a Catholic so I don't know what your practices are.

I'm just saying, if you do these things, are they not such?