Spotting the Heretic

[RogerDC]

Love God and Live as you please

Oh, so a believer should give in to every temptation and sin. That is very bad advice.

The gospel that assures you that you can NEVER lose your salvation

Well, it is true that once you are granted salvation, you can never lose it - but you are not granted salvation until after you die and are judged “worthy” of salvation (Rev 3:4) by Christ on Judgement Day. No one can claim to know they are already eternally saved in this life - that is a delusion based on flawed theology.

When Satan, the Accuser, brings up your Sins on Judgement Day , God will say, “ What Sins? I don’t remember them”

Really? In that case, Paul was wrong to warn believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God.

And Paul was wrong to write this: “For we (ie, believers included) must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” ( 2Cor 5:10). Looks like you got it right and Paul got it wrong!

 

[RogerDC]

Justification ... is a one-time act of God, and it is never reversed … But only those who obey the Gospel are justified.

When does this “one-time act” of justification occur? For how long to you have to “obey the Gospel” to be once-and-forever justified? One day? One week? One month? One year? Ten years?

If you can’t tell me, how does a Christian know if he has been forever-justified or not?

 

[justbyfaith]

When a person is declared righteous, they are also made righteous; for it is impossible for the Lord to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2).

Being justified for ever, they are made into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)). So if anyone is truly justified, they are not going to disobey the gospel.

That faith without works is dead means that if anyone has genuine faith it will produce a change of character and a change of life.
If someone does not have this change of character and change of life, it is the sign that their faith was not genuine.

But to be technical, a person is not saved by or through the change in character; rather the change in character is the salvation that is given; and it is given because of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

Salvation is the transformation of character that happens because of faith. Works...and righteous behaviour...all stem out of a salvation that is given because of faith alone. The works and righteous behaviour demonstrate that the person truly has salvation....because genuine faith always produces a change in character; and therefore if the change in character is not there, it can be said that the faith was not genuine.

So justification is in fact a one-time action of God and cannot be reversed...for what you failed to realize, @RogerDC, is that those who are declared righteous are also made righteous....God will cause them to walk in His statutes and in His judgments for all of their days...Ezekiel 36:27 (kjv).

He places the fear of the LORD in them so that they will never walk away...Jeremiah 32:38-40 (kjv), Psalms 19:9 (kjv).

He produces within them an eternal righteousness wherein they abide in Him and "sin not" (1 John 3:6) for ever more (1 John 2:17).

 

[marksman]

-
There are believers who want to indoctrinate you into their harmful theology. This is their mission in life. They feel they are "led of the Spirit" to actually cause harm regarding the Faith of real born again believers.
So, how to recognize them?
How to know who is the liar, and who is the Truth.

Now i have a strong and unrelenting point of view about a certain heresy, because i have seen the damage it causes churches, Christians, and the heretics themselves. This theology is an extreme spiritual poison. Its an infection of the mind and spiritual condition. It literally can make you crazy. Especially if you are a sincere and true believer who above all things wants to please God.

The True Believers, if they are caught up in this hellish circular reasoning theology, become more and more upset and there is NO simple remedy. See, what happens if you get infected by the people who are spreading this spiritual deceit, is that the bible and the devil begin to work together to condemn you to the point where you will begin to obsess on THE idea that you are lost, and hell bound. The bible becomes a punishing enemy as all it seems to do is show you that you are going to hell. Ive seen it. Ive dealt with believers who are caught up in the devil's lie, and TAUGHT IT by other believers. Ive witnessed the mind damage and the broken spirit. These believers, who have been deeply mentally disturbed by the people who mean to do it,....other believers... And because of these poisonous "christians", they can't open a bible and get any Help. Prayer life becomes a guilt trip. They cry and shake and feel sick all the time. Their lives become so disrupted by this screaming mental idea that they have committed the unparsdonable sin, or they have willfully sinned their salvation away. And all they had to do to be destroyed was show up on a "friendly" Christian Forum and read some fool's Thread regarding "losing your salvation" This particular Thread Topic is posted constantly on every Christian Forum that will allow it. And the next thing a sincere believer thinks after reading this spiritual poision is, "what if i did this".... and then the bottom falls out of their lives as the devil begins to work their minds into worry and fear to try to literally destroy them.

FYI. : The Epistle to the Hebrews, is a spiritual bear trap. Its a book that will tie a novice baby Christian in a knot for life. This epistle is so strong, so powerful, that when a novice gets into it, having no sound theology to lean on , no soul anchor of Grace from their Christian beginnnig, no deep understanding of Redemption,.. they will end up for the rest of their life preaching one message. "you can lose your salvation". That is what happens to everyone who get lost in the Epistle to the Hebrews, because they never became grounded in GRACE and "Justification by Faith" theology Truth BEFORE they jumped into this DEEP DEEP Epistle written to the "Hebrews".

Listen Saint, the bible is not a fun filled novel. Its a Spiritual Awakening Experience, written as words in Jesus's Blood.. Understand? And the unclean spirit , Satan, uses the bible to harm you, if he can. And do you think he can't.?
Listen... He was here before Adam. He was looking over Paul's shoulder when Paul was getting his letters out to the Churches. He sent Muslims their Bible. He lifted Jesus up by His power and took him to a high place and showed the Lord of Glory a few things... Satan is alive, just as certain as Jesus is Risen. And he is not playing with you. He wants your LIFE if he can't get your soul, and if he can't get ether because you are born again, then he'll send a heretic's lies into your mind, using a pulpit, a commentary, an online FORUM, a family member, a christian commentary..... that will try to make you believe that the Blood of Jesus is only as good as you trying by "abiding" and "enduring" and "commandment keeping" to try to keep yourself saved.

Now you think about that..... The heretic will continue to try to make you believe that the Blood Atonement is actually YOU keeping yourself saved, OR NOT. That the blood of Jesus is only as good as you are....

There are 2 Gospels that are preached, since the Cross was raised.. One is From the New Testament, and one is from the Devil. The bible preaches that God MADE you righteous and keeps you righteous, HIMSELF, if you will believe in Christ. Philippians 1:6
This is known as being born again. This is God becoming Jesus the Man and taking His very righteousness and giving it to you in place of your sin, and unrighteousness. This is Redemption. The Blood Atonement. "The Gift of Righteousness". "The Gift of Salvation".

The Devil's gospel teaches that your works make you and keep righteous, "enduring" "Abiding", "Obedience" and commandment keeping keeps you saved, and your obedience, you see... is your Cross that you hang on, to save yourself.

God's Gospel, is : "i will save you and keep you saved. ". using the Blood of Jesus.

The devil's gospel, is anything and everything else. And Saint, everything else including the person who is teaching works for salvation...... is Galatians 1:8

Another rant from behold with not one single word to build people up. Definitely not the mark of a teacher. Rants like these suggest to me behold has got this impression that he is right and everyone else is wrong. So I have got news for you. If you were running a church I would give it a wide birth because it is not helpful to be always told you are wrong and the preacher is always right.

A good teacher would say "There are two points of view regarding your salvation. One says you can't lose it and the other says you can. So let us educate ourselves and look at both of them and see what conclusion we come to."

He doesn't say as behold does, "You have got to believe what I say or you are going to hell."

So behold get rid of this idea you are a teacher and accept the fact that your ability to exegete scripture is minimal.

 

[Behold]

Another rant from behold with not one single word to build people up.
.

There are many here who will keep you in the dark.
If that is your pleasure, then continue on your way.

 

[marksman]

There are many here who will keep you in the dark.
If that is your pleasure, then continue on your way.

And you seem to be one of them.

 

[Behold]

And you seem to be one of them.

Oh im sure you would think that, marksman.
How could you not.
(figure that out).

 

[justbyfaith]

but you are not granted salvation until after you die

John 5:24 (kjv) contradicts your statement.

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

To break it down.

Jesus says here a statement of absolute truth. It is a promise.

The condition for the promise is that if anyone hears His word and believes on Him who sent Him, they will receive the promise.

The promise is three-fold:

1) they have everlasting life. This is life that can never come to an end.

2) they shall not come into condemnation. This is Jesus using absolute terminology.

3) they have passed from death unto life. Combine this with (1); the knowledge that the one who fulfills the conidtion has everlasting life; and you see that the person in the latter part of the verse has passed from death into everlasting life.

This is accomplished in the believer from the moment they hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him.

 

[RogerDC]

John 5:24 (kjv) contradicts your statement.

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

To break it down.

Jesus says here a statement of absolute truth. It is a promise.

The condition for the promise is that if anyone hears His word and believes in Him who sent Him, they will receive the promise.

The promise is three-fold:

1) they have everlasting life. This is life that can never come to an end.

2) they shall not come into condemnation. This is Jesus using absolute terminology.

3) they have passed from death unto life. Combine this with (1); the knowledge that the one who fulfills the conidtion has everlasting life; and you see that the person in the latter part of the verse has passed from death into everlasting life.

This is accomplished in the believer from the moment they hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him.

... except it doesn't mean what you think it does - that as soon as you believe in Christ you are eternally saved - that is a childishly superficial and false interpretation of that verse. . You have to interpret that verse in the context of the rest of scripture. Find an intelligent adult to explain it to you.

 

[marksman]

Oh im sure you would think that, marksman.
How could you not.
(figure that out).

Easy. I stick with the truth. I don't indulge in condemnation and holier than thou ideas like you do.

 

[Behold]

Easy. I stick with the truth. I don't indulge in condemnation and holier than thou ideas like you do.

You indulge in opinion and innuendo.
Thats all you have to offer, tho i do like your position on life in the womb.
But, i would take it farther back...
Either way, its good.

 

[marksman]

You indulge in opinion and innuendo.
Thats all you have to offer, tho i do like your position on life in the womb.
But, i would take it farther back...
Either way, its good.

Autistic people do not know what opinion and innuendo are.

 

[justbyfaith]

... except it doesn't mean what you think it does - that as soon as you believe in Christ you are eternally saved - that is a childishly superficial and false interpretation of that verse. . You have to interpret that verse in the context of the rest of scripture. Find an intelligent adult to explain it to you.

Do you consider yourself to be an intelligent adult?

Exegete the verse for me.

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you consider yourself to be an intelligent adult?

Exegete the verse for me.

Waiting for your answer, @RogerDC.

 

[Truman]

-
There are believers who want to indoctrinate you into their harmful theology. This is their mission in life. They feel they are "led of the Spirit" to actually cause harm regarding the Faith of real born again believers.
So, how to recognize them?
How to know who is the liar, and who is the Truth.

Now i have a strong and unrelenting point of view about a certain heresy, because i have seen the damage it causes churches, Christians, and the heretics themselves. This theology is an extreme spiritual poison. Its an infection of the mind and spiritual condition. It literally can make you crazy. Especially if you are a sincere and true believer who above all things wants to please God.

The True Believers, if they are caught up in this hellish circular reasoning theology, become more and more upset and there is NO simple remedy. See, what happens if you get infected by the people who are spreading this spiritual deceit, is that the bible and the devil begin to work together to condemn you to the point where you will begin to obsess on THE idea that you are lost, and hell bound. The bible becomes a punishing enemy as all it seems to do is show you that you are going to hell. Ive seen it. Ive dealt with believers who are caught up in the devil's lie, and TAUGHT IT by other believers. Ive witnessed the mind damage and the broken spirit. These believers, who have been deeply mentally disturbed by the people who mean to do it,....other believers... And because of these poisonous "christians", they can't open a bible and get any Help. Prayer life becomes a guilt trip. They cry and shake and feel sick all the time. Their lives become so disrupted by this screaming mental idea that they have committed the unparsdonable sin, or they have willfully sinned their salvation away. And all they had to do to be destroyed was show up on a "friendly" Christian Forum and read some fool's Thread regarding "losing your salvation" This particular Thread Topic is posted constantly on every Christian Forum that will allow it. And the next thing a sincere believer thinks after reading this spiritual poision is, "what if i did this".... and then the bottom falls out of their lives as the devil begins to work their minds into worry and fear to try to literally destroy them.

FYI. : The Epistle to the Hebrews, is a spiritual bear trap. Its a book that will tie a novice baby Christian in a knot for life. This epistle is so strong, so powerful, that when a novice gets into it, having no sound theology to lean on , no soul anchor of Grace from their Christian beginnnig, no deep understanding of Redemption,.. they will end up for the rest of their life preaching one message. "you can lose your salvation". That is what happens to everyone who get lost in the Epistle to the Hebrews, because they never became grounded in GRACE and "Justification by Faith" theology Truth BEFORE they jumped into this DEEP DEEP Epistle written to the "Hebrews".

Listen Saint, the bible is not a fun filled novel. Its a Spiritual Awakening Experience, written as words in Jesus's Blood.. Understand? And the unclean spirit , Satan, uses the bible to harm you, if he can. And do you think he can't.?
Listen... He was here before Adam. He was looking over Paul's shoulder when Paul was getting his letters out to the Churches. He sent Muslims their Bible. He lifted Jesus up by His power and took him to a high place and showed the Lord of Glory a few things... Satan is alive, just as certain as Jesus is Risen. And he is not playing with you. He wants your LIFE if he can't get your soul, and if he can't get ether because you are born again, then he'll send a heretic's lies into your mind, using a pulpit, a commentary, an online FORUM, a family member, a christian commentary..... that will try to make you believe that the Blood of Jesus is only as good as you trying by "abiding" and "enduring" and "commandment keeping" to try to keep yourself saved.

Now you think about that..... The heretic will continue to try to make you believe that the Blood Atonement is actually YOU keeping yourself saved, OR NOT. That the blood of Jesus is only as good as you are....

There are 2 Gospels that are preached, since the Cross was raised.. One is From the New Testament, and one is from the Devil. The bible preaches that God MADE you righteous and keeps you righteous, HIMSELF, if you will believe in Christ. Philippians 1:6
This is known as being born again. This is God becoming Jesus the Man and taking His very righteousness and giving it to you in place of your sin, and unrighteousness. This is Redemption. The Blood Atonement. "The Gift of Righteousness". "The Gift of Salvation".

The Devil's gospel teaches that your works make you and keep righteous, "enduring" "Abiding", "Obedience" and commandment keeping keeps you saved, and your obedience, you see... is your Cross that you hang on, to save yourself.

God's Gospel, is : "i will save you and keep you saved. ". using the Blood of Jesus.

The devil's gospel, is anything and everything else. And Saint, everything else including the person who is teaching works for salvation...... is Galatians 1:8

Hi. Excellent article. I first believed when I heard John 3:16 for the first time back in 1973. A few year later, a Christian that I looked up to told me that 1 John - 3:6 meant that if you were truly saved, you would never sin again. I believed him. In my late teens, I remember a time when I seriously tried to be without sin so I could really be saved. After trying numerous times and failing, I gave up. I thought God had rejected me, so I tried to stop believing in Jesus. I failed here, too. I decided that I was going to live a life filled with as much pleasure as I could get. I ended up years later with a shattered heart, alcoholism and other addictions. It wasn't until the Rock fell on me in early 2000 that this started to change. I may not have a glorious life, but I do have the ability to choose. And in 2004, I chose not to act addictively. To my surprise and delight, it stuck. I thank God for the freedom He's given me through His Spirit and His word. - I've learned that the hardest thing God has done in me over the last 20 years is freeing me from heresy that I believed was truth. He gave me a verse. I'm pretty sure it's not in the bible and I'm not saying that it's scripture, just that He spoke it to me. "There is no man as blind as the blind man who believes he sees." I wasn't bothered by the myth of losing one's salvation because I knew that I couldn't stop believing in Jesus. But the one I'm talking about had me cold. I guess the 2 we are talking about are similar, just different sides of the same lie. Norman Greenbaum's song, "Spirit In The Sky" says,"I've never been a sinner, I've never sinned," which I used to think was a result of this "sinless heresy," but it's not. He was raised Jewish, but has been a secular Jew for some time. He's an atheist. My theory is that the enemy will give someone fame and fortune, and in return, he (satan) gets to choose the subject matter. Which, invariably is to mankind's detriment. Even the name of the song isn't Christian, he got it from a native American ad. Lord, give us discernment. - Have a nice day, Ron.

 

[Behold]

Hi. Excellent article. I first believed when I heard John 3:16 for the first time back in 1973. A few year later, a Christian that I looked up to told me that 1 John - 3:6 meant that if you were truly saved, you would never sin again. I believed him. In my late teens, I remember a time when I seriously tried to be without sin so I could really be saved. After trying numerous times and failing, I gave up. I thought God had rejected me, so I tried to stop believing in Jesus. I failed here, too. I decided that I was going to live a life filled with as much pleasure as I could get. I ended up years later with a shattered heart, alcoholism and other addictions. It wasn't until the Rock fell on me in early 2000 that this started to change. I may not have a glorious life, but I do have the ability to choose. And in 2004, I chose not to act addictively. To my surprise and delight, it stuck. I thank God for the freedom He's given me through His Spirit and His word. - I've learned that the hardest thing God has done in me over the last 20 years is freeing me from heresy that I believed was truth. He gave me a verse. I'm pretty sure it's not in the bible and I'm not saying that it's scripture, just that He spoke it to me. "There is no man as blind as the blind man who believes he sees." I wasn't bothered by the myth of losing one's salvation because I knew that I couldn't stop believing in Jesus. But the one I'm talking about had me cold. I guess the 2 we are talking about are similar, just different sides of the same lie. Norman Greenbaum's song, "Spirit In The Sky" says,"I've never been a sinner, I've never sinned," which I used to think was a result of this "sinless heresy," but it's not. He was raised Jewish, but has been a secular Jew for some time. He's an atheist. My theory is that the enemy will give someone fame and fortune, and in return, he (satan) gets to choose the subject matter. Which, invariably is to mankind's detriment. Even the name of the song isn't Christian, he got it from a native American ad. Lord, give us discernment. - Have a nice day, Ron.

Hi Ron,

thanx for the post.

Christian's, most, are victims of terrible teachers.
These are found in commentaries, in Pulpits, on TV, in Books.

When We first become Christians, we have no idea that the Devil has been on the Job ever since The Cross was raised to try to undo or misrepresent the finished work of Jesus on that Cross.
The Epistle of Jude speaks to the issue that most believers are suffering from.. He calls it the "error of Cain".
The error of Cain is to try to keep yourself in God's Grace by self effort.
Its Cain going to God with a box of self effort and God told him to take his self effort and GET OUT !
God says the same to everyone who tries to come and have fellowship with Him, based on performance. = REJECTED.

Abel went to God with the blood of another, and God said..>"enter in, you are welcome here.
So, today many Christians try to perform for God and endure for God and suffer for God, in a self righteous manner, that is trying to offer their righteousness to God, and He will NEVER Accept it.
God only accepts His OWN BLOOD and His OWN BODY that was given for the world.
Nothing else will God accept to accept us and keep us.

If Satan could do it, he'd have us all up there on our self righteous Cross trying to keep ourselves saved.
He has most committing the error of Cain, but He does not have all of us.

 

[justbyfaith]

God only accepts His OWN BLOOD and His OWN BODY that was given for the world.

Of course, His blood does not only justify (Romans 5:9); it sanctifies also (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).

I don't want it to be lost on anyone that through faith in Jesus, they can live a holy life.

If we abide in Him we sin not (1 John 3:6) and we can abide in Him for evermore (1 John 2:17).

I do believe that the mistake that some make is that they think they have to strive not to sin in order to abide. The reality is that we abide in order not to sin. We abide not by exhibiting perfect behaviour but by faith. And "perfect behaviour" is the result.

It has to do with staying in the words of Christ and staying connected to Him in relationship. You do that, and everything else will fall into place; for God does the whole shemeil.

 

[marks]

God only accepts His OWN BLOOD and His OWN BODY that was given for the world.
Nothing else will God accept to accept us and keep us.

Ephesians 1
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

To take each word for exactly what it says . . .

We are accepted in the beloved, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins . . .

Accepted in Him, not in our good behavior, having redemption, forgiveness, in Him, not in us.

Much love!

 

[Truman]

Of course, His blood does not only justify (Romans 5:9); it sanctifies also (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).

I don't want it to be lost on anyone that through faith in Jesus, they can live a holy life.

If we abide in Him we sin not (1 John 3:6) and we can abide in Him for evermore (1 John 2:17).

I do believe that the mistake that some make is that they think they have to strive not to sin in order to abide. The reality is that we abide in order not to sin. We abide not by exhibiting perfect behaviour but by faith. And "perfect behaviour" is the result.

It has to do with staying in the words of Christ and staying connected to Him in relationship. You do that, and everything else will fall into place; for God does the whole shemeil.

Jesus says, "If you want to follow me, you must deny self, take up your cross daily and follow Me." Luke 9:23 This takes some teaching and then doing. Daily. Peace.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Jesus says, "If you want to follow me, you must deny self, take up your cross daily and follow Me." Luke 9:23 This takes some teaching and then doing. Daily. Peace.

“ Following” sounds difficult.....thank God we get Saved by “Resting”. Resting in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace, Plus NOTHING......
This side of the Cross, the only way to properly “ Follow Jesus” is to Follow Paul ....Are you Aware That Jesus Himself said this?
On a little “ side note”....For all of the “ Works”fans out there, I Notice that Jesus never said to “ Follow James” , and for all of my great Catholic Friends out there....Jesus never said to “ Follow Peter”.....I wonder what’s up with that? Perhaps Jesus was trying was trying to tell us something...