Sunday Sabbath keeping!< Versus> Gods Original Sabbath
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I am more to the application than to the setting of rules. The rules were set in the OT through Moses and they did not work. Joshua and Caleb of the adults alone made it into the Promised Land, but it was not, I believe, because they kept the rules perfectly. Rather it was because their hearts were really directed toward God continuously. The rest of those saved from Egypt were never steadfast in their repentance. Each time they meant their repentance but repeatedly they failed to hold on.
That they did still need to keep the sabbath is an indication that there was a possibility for them of getting into the real atonement of Jesus even though they did not make the Promised Land. For example, we see that Moses was were kept out of the Promised Land because he struck the rock instead of simply speaking to it. Was Moses forever lost or did he not also have an opportunity partake of the real rest in Jesus? That we see him at the transfiguration with Jesus and Elijah would seem to answer that question for me. As for Caleb and Joshua and all of the children [under age 20 I believe upon leaving Egypt] who did enter the Promised Land, they got the immediate carnal reward, but only Jesus could provide the real spiritual rest.
And while I am not very up on details pertaining to the millennial reign it seem to be the 7th one thousand year day.
I don't usually get into the original languages much so no, without looking them up I would not have understood the difference.
Who was the creator that rested on the seventh day in Genesis? What if it was Jesus rather than the Father? I don't have the verses handy to support that but it has been my inclination to believe so. He rested and now then consider what David wrote on the rest here:
"I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:4-5
"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14
Zion is a guiding pillar, but it also a "parched or arid or desert place". That is what we are to Jesus before we are ready. We are or were effectively uninhabitable. This is NOT how Adam and Eve were made, but as a result of their sin it is how we have been and how many people still are. But...
"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
We are the parched or arid or desert place which were from formed a bit of dirt to be inhabited, but the sin of Adam and Even made them and their offspring uninhabitable by God. So then we see...
Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
No resting place for the Head of the Body of Christ. It needs to rest on or in the Body which is or should be you and me.
We can go back to the types and shadows of the sabbath and others, but eventually and/or hopefully, we should be resting in the real thing [Jesus] and he should be able to rest in us.
John chapter 17 the prayer of Jesus says a lot about our relationship with God. For example:
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:21
We must work with Him where we are and not where someone else is. We are on the highway of holiness, but my place on the highway is not at each moment the same as yours. We also are not the same part of the Body. Each part has its own function as we are led by the Head through the Holy Spirit.
We must become a place for Jesus to rest Himself as the Head of the Body.
By the way I do not keep any natural day of the 7 24 hour days as a sabbath any more than I partake of a communion consisting of bread and juice of grapes. They are to me types or shadows of the real things. I may miss on some things, but I do work to follow the lead of the Spirit.
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Richard_oti
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- Mar 17, 2008
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Did I say that?
For myself, yes. I believe in upholding shabat.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days YHVH made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
How about instead of worrying about not working on the Sabbath, you focus on serving God by doing good, such as giving money to the poor, helping the needy, etc? We know that observance of the Sabbath, which was a foreshadow of the millennial Sabbath, is of no avail in relation to the true righteousness of God, which involves what I just described. If you observe the Sabbath but do not do what is ACTUALLY REQUIRED of you, which is bearing GOOD FRUIT, which is doing GOOD WORKS, then your Sabbath observances will be of no avail.
Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood. Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause. (Isaiah 1:13-17 [NIV])
well how it came to pass is of no real consequence. thing is the eighth day is the day that Jesus was raised and we know that it is true that Rome treated all beliefs other than the catholic religion as hostile. does it matter how the gentiles nations go about the business of letting the state of Israel be restored to the Jews? all the matters is the state of Israel is restored to the Jews.
consider the Muslims honor the sixth day the day man died of the original life God gave man, and the day Jesus was crucified.(that give one a clue to what Muhammad the prophet of Islam and his idol he found in Mecca are about). then there is the Jews that honor the seventh day the day God rested and the day the crucified Christ rested in the grave. the Christian community honors the eighth day the day Jesus was risen and the new day described by the prophets that is to come.
if you break any of the other commandments what are you? and surly one isn't to honor the Sabbath to their own harm are they? even Jesus mentions that an Israelite has no problem with recuing a sheep on a Sabbath, isn't that correct?
I agree! I Have pulled a Few Ox's out of the ditch on the Sabbath, It is good to do Good on the Sabbath.
I'm not saying it don't matter everything God says matters. point is just how are we to be in the covenant of Christ. and its through His fulfillment are we blameless before God.
let me ask you this, why was the Israelites given law enforceable or better said punishable law to not do labor on the seventh day? I don't recollect the covenants to Noah or Abraham including anything like that. and it was the one law Jesus directly contested the Pharisees on.
I'm not trying give you grief here
it is against the law to eat pork correct? so who superseded the law when He told Peter it was ok in a vision. so when Peter was to be amongst the gentiles, the kosher law was over looked.
thing is the Lord their God told them more than once I do believe that they (in the desert) were His soldiers. and if you have ever been in the service you'd know that there are general orders or standing orders that apply unless ordered otherwise or circumstance call for on site decisions.
thou shall not kill is a good one on this.
soldiers kill, and those who would protect their loved ones or defend their own lives, are what in relationship to this? Joshua killed more than a few, didn't he?
and one could argue the first commandment but as Jesus says all hangs on Love the Lord your God and thy neighbor as yourself. but if you didn't do that, or care about that, you really wouldn't care one way or the other about the rest of the commandments in the first place.
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umm Christ was raised on the third day
1 cor 15:3 ...how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Some people have the erroneous belief that this third day fell on the first day of the week but, to properly understand what day it was one needs to know first what a God defined day is and then grasp the scripture that defined what day of the week was described.
Matt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said.
A God defined day begins at evening and ends at evening.
When they arrived at the tomb they were told that Christ had already been resurrected prior to their arrival. There is no where that it says that he rose on the first day of the week. It simply says that as the day was dawning toward the first day that the resurrection had already occurred thus, for it to have already occurred would place the time of rising during the end of the Sabbath day.
The seventh day Sabbath holds double meaning for the men existing after Christ. By honoring God on that day we honor the creator of the heavens and the earth and we would also be honoring the savior of the faithful who showed that it is good to do good on the Sabbath that he is lord of.
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The seventh day Sabbath was not simply a commanded observance to the Israelites. If one pays attention to the wording given at that time they were told to remember it. That Sabbath was already a day made Holy by God and Blessed no less at the time it occurred.
Should a follower of God honor God by following his lead for that day?
The question is really "do you love God with all your heart, soul and mind"?
If we say we love God but do not follow in their ways then we would be liars. Christ loved the Father and always did as he seen the Father do right? and we are admonished to be followers of Christ just as he was a follower of the Father.
We should not honor the Sabbath because it is a law or demand of God..... We should follow it because of our love for the Father and his ways.
Should a follower of God honor God by following his lead for that day?
The question is really "do you love God with all your heart, soul and mind"?
If we say we love God but do not follow in their ways then we would be liars. Christ loved the Father and always did as he seen the Father do right? and we are admonished to be followers of Christ just as he was a follower of the Father.
We should not honor the Sabbath because it is a law or demand of God..... We should follow it because of our love for the Father and his ways.
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You dishonor God by changing the appointed time of his Sabbath in accordance to his Law. Who are you to change the Sabbath that he himself set even from the beginning of creation? Instead, if you wish to honor Jesus Christ, then do what he says. Feed the hungry, give to the poor.
ummm what? There has been no change in the Sabbath days appointed time since the creation.
Ex 20:8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The seventh day of the week is the only day God defined as his Sabbath and he hallowed it. No other day has been stated as Gods Sabbath.....ever.... nor could any other day be given, since that day defines the creator according to the historical actions they took in the creation.
The Sabbath is always the seventh day. It has never changed.
We who are Christian observe Sunday, the first day of the week, as that is when Christ rose from the dead. We are under no law to do so. But we do as the early church did.
It doesn't matter to me if a Christian considers the first day of the week a Christian Sabbath or not. What matters is what is in his heart as he observes this day. Remember the Jews were strict keepers of the Sabbath, but were of they synagogue of Satan. So, though they were correct in the observance of the Sabbath, their observance was not accepted by God. It meant nothing.
Stranger
We who are Christian observe Sunday, the first day of the week, as that is when Christ rose from the dead. We are under no law to do so. But we do as the early church did.
It doesn't matter to me if a Christian considers the first day of the week a Christian Sabbath or not. What matters is what is in his heart as he observes this day. Remember the Jews were strict keepers of the Sabbath, but were of they synagogue of Satan. So, though they were correct in the observance of the Sabbath, their observance was not accepted by God. It meant nothing.
Stranger
By observing the Sabbath on Sunday you have changed the Sabbath. If you are going to keep the Sabbath, then keep it on the appointed time, not on any day you want and however you want. The Law of God has not been abolished, per Jesus Christ's words. If, however, you do not wish to keep the Sabbath, by refraining from work as commanded by the Law, then you are at liberty not to, because although the Law has not been abolished, the Sabbath is merely a shadow of the future thousand year Sabbath. But to change the time you observe the Sabbath, this you are not permitted to do, for you are sinning by distorting the command of God.
I am not changing the time of the Sabbath. I said the Sabbath is the seventh day. The first day of the week is not the Sabbath. But that is the day Christians gather to worship God and Christ. Reread again what I said.
You either contradict yourself or you're mistaken. You say the "Law of God has not been abolished". You then say, "If however, you do not wish to keep the Sabbath...then you are at liberty not to...." The Law never allows you the liberty to break it. You keep it or you don't. If you don't, you're a lawbreaker.
Stranger
You do not understand, for whoever enters in the greater thousand year Sabbath, which is what the weekly Sabbath foreshadowed, hence why it is called "shadow", will fulfill the command to observe the Sabbath, which is why observing or not observing the shadow of the weekly is not of any avail. My response to you was for what you said, "We who are Christian observe Sunday, the first day of the week", for no one must say, "I observe the Sabbath on Sunday", or "I observe the Sabbath on Monday". You must observe the Sabbath on the appointed time if you choose to observe the Sabbath. You may, however, assemble whenever you want, for the assembling of the brethren should be done daily or as often as possible, which does not relate to the weekly Sabbath observance, for weekly Sabbath observances relate to abstaining from work, not assembling.
If it is of no avail to observe the Sabbath, what you call the shadowy Sabbath, then what is the problem? Christians observe the first day of the week. If some want to call it a Christian Sabbath, so what? You already said it is of no avail to keep the shadowy Sabbath.
Of course we can assemble and worship when we want. The Sabbath is the seventh day. Saturday. The first day of the week is Sunday. Because some like to call it the Christian Sabbath, what does it matter? It is a day set apart for the worship of God and Christ.
Stranger
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