Temptation of Jesus in the wilderness

[Templar81]

I've been comparing the fouir accounts of Jesus' Baptism ad Public proclamation and his temptation in the wilderness and it brings up a few questions.

Firstly, why do Matthew and Luke go into detail about the things that the Devil tempted Jesus with when Marka dn john seem to gloss over it?

Secondly, when the devil tries to tempt Jesus is he doing so because it is patr of God's plan that Jesus be tested or because that is the kind of thing the devil does. What I mean is; Is the devil just being the devil or his he acting on an instruciton from God to test jesus? Or is it a bit of both. I've also noticed that in the original Greek, Tempt and test are interchangeable words but they do allow us to glean slightly different meanings.

Thirdly, Is Jesus time in the wilderness meant to be a physical or spriitual journey? By this I mean, would the devil have actually taken Jesus physically to the top of a mountaina nd the top of the Temple or would it have been osrt of like a dream or vision?

Any thoughts?

 

[Disciple]

I think it was real and not a vision, and about why the devil was there, really for our good so that we can turn to Jesus who was perfect when in need, plus the 'lamb' sacrifice had to be without blemsish

 

[Templar81]

I'm wondering if God ordered satan to test his son because iit was neccessary for Jesus to go through that in order to begin his ministry.

The reason why I wometimes wonder if the mountain and the temple were visions is because the accounts tell us that Jesus spent his time in the wilderness and that is where he was tempted, so that if Jesus was physically present on the mountain top and on the top ofi the temple then he woudl hsve infact left the wilderness for a time.

What about Mark and john? Why didn't they go into like Matthew and Luke?

 

[Disciple]

God is almighty, for satan to do anything God would have to allow it; to say 'God ordered satan' thats up to you but those things dont really matter.
The gospel writers wrote their account of Jesus Christ, the wisdom, miracles, or events that they knew and witnessed, so they may differ but never contradict, and God has his purposes in everything.
The word of God says hes was tempted in the wilderness for 40 days and was tempted in almost every way (im sure this was horrible), that is what is written in the holy scriptures so it is true. During that time the devil took him on top of the mt, and temple (either transported, magic, or a vision) Idk but it is all real and true

 

[Templar81]

I still believe it is true and it did happen and I don't think that one Gospel is contradicting another I just wodnered why two woudl describe it and two woudl gloss over it but all four a right. The only part that I thought might ahve been a vision is when he ws on the Temple or or the mountaina nd that doesn't mean it didn't haoppen.

 

[Disciple]

Im thinking they just witnessed or knew about different things and I guess the Spirit moved them to tell it differently which definately serves a purpose.

 

[Templar81]

I suppose if all the gospels were the same then we would only need one.

 

[Disciple]

There is only one gospel, just different accounts of it, i see what you mean though.

 

[aspen]

People thought differently 2000+ years ago - the painted with broad brush strokes. The important part of the story was that Jesus was tempted. No one imagined that people in the future would read all four gospels side by side and expect details to match up. Educated people even plagiarized freely back then - they didn't think there was anything wrong about adding to a previous work of knowledge. I am not saying that the Bible was plagiarized - I am just trying to point out how different people thought back then compared to us. I think we expect so much out of the Bible that we end up getting caught up in 21st century arguments that would never have been imagined by the gospel writers.

 

[Pato]

I've been comparing the fouir accounts of Jesus' Baptism ad Public proclamation and his temptation in the wilderness and it brings up a few questions.

Firstly, why do Matthew and Luke go into detail about the things that the Devil tempted Jesus with when Marka dn john seem to gloss over it?

Secondly, when the devil tries to tempt Jesus is he doing so because it is patr of God's plan that Jesus be tested or because that is the kind of thing the devil does. What I mean is; Is the devil just being the devil or his he acting on an instruciton from God to test jesus? Or is it a bit of both. I've also noticed that in the original Greek, Tempt and test are interchangeable words but they do allow us to glean slightly different meanings.

Thirdly, Is Jesus time in the wilderness meant to be a physical or spriitual journey? By this I mean, would the devil have actually taken Jesus physically to the top of a mountaina nd the top of the Temple or would it have been osrt of like a dream or vision?

Any thoughts?

1. Just a difference in providing a witness. Different people see and hear different angles of the same story. It serves to give a fuller picture.
2. Christ had to be tested in order to be our high priest and savior regardless.
3. Christ time in the wilderness was a literal, physical thing. His testings however can be questioned. By this I mean, what possible mountain could He be taken to the top of that He could see all the government of the world? I think that was some kind of vision but that's my opinion.

 

[Templar81]

It's jsut that the accounts say that he spent 40 days and nights in the wilderness, they don't say he came in and out of the wilderness. Could that mountain have been on his route? I don't know about the geography of the Holy Land so I can't say. However, if Jesus was in the wilderness for that time then he can't have been physically present on the Temple roof unless the devil transported them both by some kind of magical teleportation. I don't like that because to think that satan could transport Jesus around seems udnermining to Jesus and I don't want to go there. There is of course another possibility; that all satan did was create an image so that it appeared as if Jesus was standing on the temple roof.

here is a clip from a mvoie which I think portrays the temptation very well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Duckybill]

The devil is the god of this age. Most do not take him as seriously as they should. He is very powerful.

Luke 4:5 (NKJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

He is constantly devouring humans. He likes to stay hidden and ignored so he can do his sneaky work. God clearly warned us.

1 Peter 5:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

 

[Templar81]

I agree with you but seriously, NEVER EVER call him a god, he is not and never will be. He is a fallen archangel and at his height of power he was still inferior to Adam. Now he thinks he is high and mighty because of the powers he has in this world but to call him a god leans too close to gnosticism and we don't want to fall into that trap of dualism, it is heretical.

I udnerstand that satan is powerful and he is sneaky and the need to be vigilant but the devil is a spirit and he can't be everywhere at once, so most of the time when we humans are tempted, it is one of his minions, which include both unclean spirits and human beings, witches, pagans etc.

Even though he is powerful, if we trust in Jesus and never give into the devil then he will have failed to elad us astray and we with help of Christ will have overcome. We cannot do it without Christ's help or we would be devoured.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Jesus was tempted in the wilderness for 2 reasons....


1, To show that He was God, and God cannot sin.
2, To show that man is without excuse, in that, no one can say, "Of course he was sinless, he wasn't ever even tempted" or another whole host of excuses men would make.


Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Duckybill]

I agree with you but seriously, NEVER EVER call him a god, he is not and never will be. He is a fallen archangel and at his height of power he was still inferior to Adam.

I didn't say God, I said god.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 (NKJV)
[sup]3 [/sup]But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, [sup]4 [/sup]whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Satan offered Jesus great power because it is his to give. He is the god of this age. Satan is so powerful he thought he could challenge God. Of course he will fail. But to even consider it he must be VERY powerful.

Luke 4:5-7 (NKJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. [sup]6 [/sup]And the devil said to Him, "All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. [sup]7 [/sup]Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours."

Satan has the power to steal God's Word from hearts of those who are careless.

Luke 8:12 (NKJV)
[sup]12 [/sup]Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

 

[Templar81]

Don't eveen call him that.

 

[Duckybill]

Don't eveen call him that.

Just quoting Paul.

 

[Templar81]

As logn as we're talking figurateivley and not litterally then OK but satan is in now way, shape or form a god. There is One God who is in three persons, no roomf or anyone else.

satan is jsut a fallen angel who thinks he is a bigshot and we should treat him for what he is; nothing, dirt, scum, filth I have such contempt for the devil that I avoid spelling his name with an upper case S.

I think Paul was talking figurateively.

Also, as I understand it God gave to satan when he was an angel, the care of earth. When satan rebelled Miochale threw him out of heaven but satan still retained his dominion of the earth. Why was he not stripped of it. Or perhaps he has been stripped of it and is only a usurper.

 

[Duckybill]

As logn as we're talking figurateivley and not litterally then OK but satan is in now way, shape or form a god. There is One God who is in three persons, no roomf or anyone else.

Of course there is only one true God.

satan is jsut a fallen angel who thinks he is a bigshot and we should treat him for what he is; nothing, dirt, scum, filth I have such contempt for the devil that I avoid spelling his name with an upper case S.

I think Paul was talking figurateively.

Also, as I understand it God gave to satan when he was an angel, the care of earth. When satan rebelled Miochale threw him out of heaven but satan still retained his dominion of the earth. Why was he not stripped of it. Or perhaps he has been stripped of it and is only a usurper.

Satan has control over this world, but only temporarily. But control nevertheless. To deny his power is a BIG mistake. He has MANY children who are dedicated to following him and being like him.

Luke 4:5-6 (NKJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. [sup]6 [/sup]And the devil said to Him, "All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.

God warned us not to take him lightly. He is VERY wise and crafty. Just look at the mess 'Christianity' is in.

1 Peter 5:8-9 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. [sup]9 [/sup]Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

 

[Templar81]

I do agree wqith you wholeheartidly, I think you speak sense. I just wanted to emphasise that satan is such a **** and how much I hate his rotten guts, may he suffer forever and then some.

He is powerful but with Christ on our side we will win.

What I mentioned earlier about usurpation! Do you think it is posible that since satan fell from heaven he lost his entitlement to govern earth adn therefore is doing so illegitimatly as ausurper rather than as a rightful ruler? His time is short and whatever he has is at best on lease to him. One day we will have rid of him and good riddence to ba drubbish I say.