"That Wicked" has problems!

[Earburner]

T

I agree absolutely that faith is a gift but how can we judge the faith of others as "self-righteousness"? I do not believe that one can will oneself to have faith--I don't believe there is any such thing as "human faith". It is either faith from the Holy Spirit or it is not faith.

Hey will their "human" level of faith.
There are millions of unsaved people out there, facing disease and predictable death, having "faith" in themselves, that they will conquer both the disease and death by "sheer will power" , which is human faith.
You hear the stories all the time!

 

[Earburner]

^ Correction: Will their "human" level of faith deliver them from disease and death?

 

[Earburner]

I think we all witnessed such vain "will power" in Christopher Reeves ("Superman"), who became a paraplegic through a horse riding accident.

 

[Earburner]

I'm going to bed--will catch up with you tomorrow.

OK

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

In that you are correct, but you side stepped my question.
What does John 3:18 and Rom. 8:9 say, in regards to what you previously posted:
"2. But, Jesus Christ is Lord of All who are on planet earth--whether they recognize Him or not."

I don't see a conflict there. I didn't say that All were of Him or in Him. But even unbelievers are under His authority--whether they recognize Him and His authority or not. Those who are in the world come very belatedly to that realization in Revelation 6 where they cry out to the mountains to hide them from the wrath of Father God and of the Lamb.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

T

Hey will their "human" level of faith.
There are millions of unsaved people out there, facing disease and predictable death, having "faith" in themselves, that they will conquer both the disease and death by "sheer will power" , which is human faith.
You hear the stories all the time!

I still wouldn't call it "faith". I think you could characterize it as "hope" but faith is not hope. Human beings hope for all kinds of things--until hope is gone. We are told in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, "Do not grieve as those who have no hope..." The person has already died, ending the unbeliever's hope that the person would live, for example. But, "Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see." (Hebrews 11:1 NLT) Only God gives that kind of confidence and assurance. Humans without faith, are just whistling through the graveyard when they insist that they have faith. They do not understand the difference between faith and hope. Hope is not a bad thing. To truly love is to hope--all people hope for the best for those they love (1 Corinthians 13:7). The Apostle Paul tells us that even faith and hope is secondary to love. (1 Corinthians 13:13).

 

[Earburner]

I still wouldn't call it "faith". I think you could characterize it as "hope" but faith is not hope. Human beings hope for all kinds of things--until hope is gone. We are told in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, "Do not grieve as those who have no hope..." The person has already died, ending the unbeliever's hope that the person would live, for example. But, "Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see." (Hebrews 11:1 NLT) Only God gives that kind of confidence and assurance. Humans without faith, are just whistling through the graveyard when they insist that they have faith. They do not understand the difference between faith and hope. Hope is not a bad thing. To truly love is to hope--all people hope for the best for those they love (1 Corinthians 13:7). The Apostle Paul tells us that even faith and hope is secondary to love. (1 Corinthians 13:13).

Christopher Reeves hoped that he would conquer his ailments, and did exercise his human faith, that he could and would heal himself, through his own "positive thinking".
.
A Hope to get well, is without action of will, but having faith in that hope, is the human will put into action, to will it to be so!

 

[Earburner]

I don't see a conflict there. I didn't say that All were of Him or in Him. But even unbelievers are under His authority--whether they recognize Him and His authority or not. Those who are in the world come very belatedly to that realization in Revelation 6 where they cry out to the mountains to hide them from the wrath of Father God and of the Lamb.

To that, I agree.

 

[Earburner]

When the people of the world say things like:
"Keep the faith,
"Just believe"
"You gotta have faith"
"Where's your faith 'Bro'?"
"Faith can move mountains",
God is not in their picture of "faith" .

 

[Earburner]

^....Because, They are in the picture and no one else, especially God!
And rightly so, because they are "that man of sin, the son of perdition", sitting in the temple of their bodies, which are meant for God to dwell in.

 

[Earburner]

Which brings us full circle to the correct words in the Textus Receptus Greek: "the wicked", and not the inserted words, being [that] [W]icked!

 

[Earburner]

I still wouldn't call it "faith". I think you could characterize it as "hope" but faith is not hope. Human beings hope for all kinds of things--until hope is gone. We are told in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, "Do not grieve as those who have no hope..." The person has already died, ending the unbeliever's hope that the person would live, for example. But, "Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see." (Hebrews 11:1 NLT) Only God gives that kind of confidence and assurance. Humans without faith, are just whistling through the graveyard when they insist that they have faith. They do not understand the difference between faith and hope. Hope is not a bad thing. To truly love is to hope--all people hope for the best for those they love (1 Corinthians 13:7). The Apostle Paul tells us that even faith and hope is secondary to love. (1 Corinthians 13:13).

Well, you could have love for everyone in the world, but if you don't have faith, it is impossible to please God. So, loving everyone, does not grant you God's Salvation.
Do the following words apply to anyone, who does not have faith, as a reason for their salvation?
John 15[13] Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Some, actually think so!!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Well, you could have love for everyone in the world, but if you don't have faith, it is impossible to please God. So, loving everyone, does not grant you God's Salvation.

I didn't say that it does. Loving God and loving one's fellow humans (especially Christians) is the outcome of salvation and it will last through all the ages long after everyone in God's Kingdom comes to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

When the people of the world say things like:
"Keep the faith,
"Just believe"
"You gotta have faith"
"Where's your faith 'Bro'?"
"Faith can move mountains",
God is not in their picture of "faith" .

Then it is not faith, but hope. I have seen despondent people whose hope is gone. They may have said they had "faith" when, in reality, what they had were hopes. Real faith is not so easily defeated. Even the immanence of death does not diminish faith--but it can make the formerly hopeful, hopeless.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Christopher Reeves hoped that he would conquer his ailments, and did exercise his human faith, that he could and would heal himself, through his own "positive thinking".
.
A Hope to get well, is without action of will, but having faith in that hope, is the human will put into action, to will it to be so!

I've never seen anyone yet who was able to will themselves well. On the other hand, I have seen a few people with the faith that God would heal them--sometimes He did, sometimes He did not. But either way, their faith remained. The Apostle Paul said, "To die is to gain..."

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I'm off to bed--good night! ZZZZZZZ

 

[Earburner]

Then it is not faith, but hope. I have seen despondent people whose hope is gone. They may have said they had "faith" when, in reality, what they had were hopes. Real faith is not so easily defeated. Even the immanence of death does not diminish faith--but it can make the formerly hopeful, hopeless.

You are missing what I said of how the world interprets faith to themselves. They have human faith IN THEMSELVES, not in God!

 

[Earburner]

I've never seen anyone yet who was able to will themselves well. On the other hand, I have seen a few people with the faith that God would heal them--sometimes He did, sometimes He did not. But either way, their faith remained. The Apostle Paul said, "To die is to gain..."

Again you are missing the reality of human will power, being AS faith to them, of themselves.
Stop approaching their condition with religious glasses on.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You are missing what I said of how the world interprets faith to themselves. They have human faith IN THEMSELVES, not in God!

Well, I think that we are probably quibbling over words. You call it "human faith"--and I think there is probably no such thing. What you have observed is what I call hope and maintain that you cannot give faith to yourself because it is God-given.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Stop approaching their condition with religious glasses on.

What on earth is that supposed to mean? Every time anyone disagrees it is because they have "religious glasses on"? Perhaps it is you who have "religious glasses on" since you seem to see "religious" impulses in everyone but yourself.