"That Wicked" has problems!

[Earburner]

Are you wanting to say that the Holy Spirit leaves a person who grieves the Holy Spirit? Surely you must know that our bodies of flesh and blood ARE SIN until they return to the dust.
Heb. 13[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

So ideally, the best that we can do here, is allow Him to "renew our minds" by daily, or minute by minute, yield our bodies over to Him, for His purposes.
Rom. 12[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, *holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
.
* If you recall when I quoted earlier: that "only God is Good", you should understand that your form of
"good (holy)" is NOT acceptable unto God, but HIS "Good (Holiness) IS.
Hence the need/requirement to be "born again" of His Spirit, who is the vehicle of His OWN Righteousness (Good)!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Are you wanting to say that the Holy Spirit leaves a person who grieves the Holy Spirit? Surely you must know that our bodies of flesh and blood ARE SIN until they return to the dust.
Heb. 13[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

So ideally, the best that we can do here, is allow Him to "renew our minds" by daily, or minute by minute, yield our bodies over to Him, for His purposes.
Rom. 12[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, *holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
.
* If you recall when I quoted earlier: that "only God is Good", you should understand that your form of
"good (holy)" is NOT acceptable unto God, but HIS "Good (Holiness) IS.
Hence the need/requirement to be "born again" of His Spirit, who is the vehicle of His OWN Righteousness (Good)!

The original Koine Greek does not contain capitalization. It has been added by English translators.

 

[Earburner]

I add nothing to Scripture, nor do I take away from it. Sideways? What do you mean by that? I am not focused particularly on any issue that you raise.

You introduced another "category" , as if there were those who were questionable as having been saved.

 

[Earburner]

The original Koine Greek does not contain capitalization. It has been added by English translators.

I think you missed my point, but instead gravitated to the myopic. What are you referencing concerning the Koine Greek?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You introduced another "category" , as if there were those who were questionable as having been saved.

No, I meant what I said--they are real Christians but "grieving" the Holy Spirit within them, by the way that they behave. My guess is that these will be the ones "saved, but though as through fire" (1 Corinthians 3:15). Ephesians 4 makes especially important points on "immature" (disobedient) Christians. Ephesians 4:30 makes it clear that they are truly Christians but that they "grieve" the Holy Spirit by their disobedience.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I think you missed my point, but instead gravitated to the myopic. What are you referencing concerning the Koine Greek?

Your criticism of my lack of capitalizing "holy" and "good"--saying that God does not accept the lack of capitalization on those words. I was merely pointing out that there is no such thing as "capitalization" in the original language. There is only one case for both Old Testament Hebrew and ancient Greek.

 

[Earburner]

Your criticism of my lack of capitalizing "holy" and "good"--saying that God does not accept the lack of capitalization on those words. I was merely pointing out that there is no such thing as "capitalization" in the original language. There is only one case for both Old Testament Hebrew and ancient Greek.

Honestly, I didn't even pay attention to what you did with capital letters.
Its a habit of mine to emphasize His Righteousness as opposed to ours, which is through the Law.
See, I did it again.
Can we forego the personal attention of who is doing what with grammar/sentence structure, and stay on topic?

 

[Earburner]

No, I meant what I said--they are real Christians but "grieving" the Holy Spirit within them, by the way that they behave. My guess is that these will be the ones "saved, but though as through fire" (1 Corinthians 3:15). Ephesians 4 makes especially important points on "immature" (disobedient) Christians. Ephesians 4:30 makes it clear that they are truly Christians but that they "grieve" the Holy Spirit by their disobedience.

I can understand that. I do agree. However, Tares are not saved, and though they appear to be Christians, we shall know them by their fruit, whether it be of the Holy Spirit or of the natural man.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Honestly, I didn't even pay attention to what you did with capital letters.
Its a habit of mine to emphasize His Righteousness as opposed to ours, which is through the Law.
See, I did it again.
Can we forego the personal attention of who is doing what with grammar/sentence structure, and stay on topic?

This is what you said in your post# 461 :---> "...If you recall when I quoted earlier: that "only God is Good", you should understand that your form of "good (holy)" is NOT acceptable unto God, but HIS "Good (Holiness) IS. Hence the need/requirement to be "born again" of His Spirit, who is the vehicle of His OWN Righteousness (Good)!"

What were you commenting on if not for capitalization?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I can understand that. I do agree. However, Tares are not saved, and though they appear to be Christians, we shall know them by their fruit, whether it be of the Holy Spirit or of the natural man.

How would we know the difference between an unsaved person in the church or one who is saved but disobedient? I think that all who name the name of Christ are saved but that they will "suffer loss" (of reward) at the Bema Seat of Christ, if they are disobedient. Again, I think the tares are those who don't even have anything to do with being a follower of Christ.

But, Jesus Christ is Lord of All who are on planet earth--whether they recognize Him or not.

 

[Earburner]

This is what you said in your post# 461 :---> "...If you recall when I quoted earlier: that "only God is Good", you should understand that your form of "good (holy)" is NOT acceptable unto God, but HIS "Good (Holiness) IS. Hence the need/requirement to be "born again" of His Spirit, who is the vehicle of His OWN Righteousness (Good)!"

What were you commenting on if not for capitalization?

This is what you said in your post# 461 :---> "...If you recall when I quoted earlier: that "only God is Good", you should understand that your form of "good (holy)" is NOT acceptable unto God, but HIS "Good (Holiness) IS. Hence the need/requirement to be "born again" of His Spirit, who is the vehicle of His OWN Righteousness (Good)!"

What were you commenting on if not for capitalization?

As I did say: "Its a habit of mine to emphasize His Righteousness as opposed to ours, which is through the Law."
.
There are many professing christians who are attempting be "good" (holy), by either wilfully and purposely keeping the 10C Law verbatim, or driving themselves into ground by "good works", of their own making, thinking that they will be accepted by God, for THEIR personal sacrifice. For boasting, God Himself wants none of that!!
.
Rom. 3[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Earburner]

1. How would we know the difference between an unsaved person in the church or one who is saved but disobedient? I think that all who name the name of Christ are saved but that they will "suffer loss" (of reward) at the Bema Seat of Christ, if they are disobedient. Again, I think the tares are those who don't even have anything to do with being a follower of Christ.

2. But, Jesus Christ is Lord of All who are on planet earth--whether they recognize Him or not.

1. You didn't answer my question!
Do the tares (unsaved) attend church? Do they get involved, helping out with church functions? Do they assist on church committees, and help make decisions? Have they ever helped out covering for a church school class, for adult or children?
Can you say no, none ever have?
.
As I said previously:
"Tares are not saved, and though they appear to be Christians, we shall know them by their fruit, whether it be of the Holy Spirit or of the natural man."
.
2. Again, what does John 3:18 and Rom. 8:9 say?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

As I did say: "Its a habit of mine to emphasize His Righteousness as opposed to ours, which is through the Law."
.
There are many professing christians who are attempting be "good" (holy), by either wilfully and purposely keeping the 10C Law verbatim, or driving themselves into ground by "good works", of their own making, thinking that they will be accepted by God, for THEIR personal sacrifice. For boasting, God Himself wants none of that!!
.
Rom. 3[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There are different levels of faith. Jesus noted when His disciples were "of little faith". They asked Him, "Increase our faith." There is faith that can "move mountains"--we all must ask God to increase our faith daily. It isn't an "on-off" switch to my mind--more like a dimmer switch. Sometimes faith shines brightly and sometimes it barely seems there. But let me ask you something--why would anyone sacrificially give of their time, talents and treasure, if they didn't have some measure of faith?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

1. You didn't answer my question!
Do the tares (unsaved) attend church? Do they get involved, helping out with church functions? Do they assist on church committees, and help make decisions? Have they ever helped out covering for a church school class, for adult or children?
Can you say no, none ever have?

Tares are almost certainly unsaved--that is the obvious meaning of Scripture on that point. But, I repeat, why would anyone give of their time, talent and treasure to the churches if they were not, in some measure, a follower of Christ?
.

As I said previously:
"Tares are not saved, and though they appear to be Christians, we shall know them by their fruit, whether it be of the Holy Spirit or of the natural man."

And you did not answer my question. How would we know the difference between an unbeliever and a disobedient Christian who are in the church?
.

2. Again, what does John 3:18 and Rom. 8:9 say?

John 3:18 is just two verses later than John 3:16 which refers to the "world". It is quite likely that Jesus was speaking of those who belong to the world (which we all were before we were saved).

 

[Enoch111]

But, I repeat, why would anyone give of their time, talent and treasure to the churches if they were not, in some measure, a follower of Christ?

The believe that they are Christians and that is the tragedy of self-deception.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

The believe that they are Christians and that is the tragedy of self-deception.

I think one knows whether or not he/she is a Christian--we can rest in that. With unusual clarity for an unbeliever, Charles Templeton KNEW that he was not a believer. I really don't think that God leaves us in the state of not knowing whether we are justified and continuing to be sanctified. Those who Jesus says He will turn away are trying to get into heaven on the basis of their works, "Haven't we prophesied...Didn't we cast out demons...and do wonderful works in your name?" But Jesus says, that He will say He never knew them. Then He tells them that they break God's law and to depart from Him. What law did they break? The same one that the Jewish religious authorities broke in Jesus' day. What is the summary of the Law? That 1) we love God and 2) that we love our fellow man--particularly those who are in Christ. Those who do not love God and other humans break the Law every day of their lives and they will be permitted to die in that sin, if they insist. Those who belong to the evil one are already condemned and deceived. It is only when we are saved that we finally see the truth.

 

[Earburner]

1. There are different levels of faith.
2. Jesus noted when His disciples were "of little faith". They asked Him, "Increase our faith."
3. There is faith that can "move mountains"--
we all must ask God to increase our faith daily. It isn't an "on-off" switch to my mind--more like a dimmer switch.
4. Sometimes faith shines brightly and sometimes it barely seems there.
5. But let me ask you something--why would anyone sacrificially give of their time, talents and treasure, if they didn't have some measure of faith?

1. Correct! There is Human faith, and there is "the faith of Jesus, the son of God!

2. When Jesus said "O ye of little faith", He was speaking a truth about our basic human faith of hope in and for ourselves, which is to have faith in that which is predictable, such as "I have faith that it will rain, and then I have faith that the sun will shine again".
Prior to Pentecost, the disciples were just mere men. Being not yet " born again", it was impossible for them to have their faith increased, to the level of having the faith of Jesus. But not soon after, they did! The Day of Pentecost came!
3. As born again Christians, The Faith of Jesus is to trust God daily, in every situation of our lives, no matter what the outcome.
4. By God, His Faith is measured out to us for our need. It is nothing that is in our control, except to receive it when the increase is given to us.
Therefore, for one to say: "I have faith that God will save my child from Cancer", is a shot in the dark. God, for His reasons, will save the child or no!

Therefore, faith of that type, can not be measured as being weak, if death comes about, nor is faith measured as strong, if life is given.
How dare we say that "My child died, because I didn't have enough faith". So likewise, to say "my child is cured", because I had strong faith", is just as equally wrong.
IOWS, anything of faith, which is beyond that which is predictable, is God given!
Faith, which is equal TO THAT of the Son of God, is NOT FOUND among people, who are NOT born again, but rather is given as a Gift of His Spirit to His Saints only! Quite literally, they do have the faith of Jesus, when it is required of them.
All the prophets, and those down through Abraham, experienced the faith of God, but only because the Spirit of God visited upon them, for His purposes.
5. Mere human faith is not the God Given "faith of Jesus".
Tares believe/assume that they shall enter into Heaven BECAUSE of their "good works" of sacrificial giving of their money and/or their time. They always see themselves as basically "good" people.
God says otherwise!
.

Tares are almost certainly unsaved--that is the obvious meaning of Scripture on that point. But, I repeat, why would anyone give of their time, talent and treasure to the churches if they were not, in some measure, a follower of Christ?

It's called "self righteousness" .

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

1. Correct! There is Human faith, and there is "the faith of Jesus, the son of God!

2. When Jesus said "O ye of little faith", He was speaking a truth about our basic human faith of hope in and for ourselves, which is to have faith in that which is predictable, such as "I have faith that it will rain, and then I have faith that the sun will shine again".
Prior to Pentecost, the disciples were just mere men. Being not yet " born again", it was impossible for them to have their faith increased, to the level of having the faith of Jesus. But not soon after, they did! The Day of Pentecost came!
3. As born again Christians, The Faith of Jesus is to trust God daily, in every situation of our lives, no matter what the outcome.
4. By God, His Faith is measured out to us for our need. It is nothing that is in our control, except to receive it when the increase is given to us.
Therefore, for one to say: "I have faith that God will save my child from Cancer", is a shot in the dark. God, for His reasons, will save the child or no!

Therefore, faith of that type, can not be measured as being weak, if death comes about, nor is faith measured as strong, if life is given.
How dare we say that "My child died, because I didn't have enough faith". So likewise, to say "my child is cured", because I had strong faith", is just as equally wrong.
IOWS, anything of faith, which is beyond that which is predictable, is God given!
Faith, which is equal TO THAT of the Son of God, is NOT FOUND among people, who are NOT born again, but rather is given as a Gift of His Spirit to His Saints only! Quite literally, they do have the faith of Jesus, when it is required of them.
All the prophets, and those down through Abraham, experienced the faith of God, but only because the Spirit of God visited upon them, for His purposes.
5. Mere human faith is not the God Given "faith of Jesus".
Tares believe/assume that they shall enter into Heaven BECAUSE of their "good works" of sacrificial giving of their money and/or their time. They always see themselves as basically "good" people.
God says otherwise!
.

It's called "self righteousness" .

I agree absolutely that faith is a gift but how can we judge the faith of others as "self-righteousness"? I do not believe that one can will oneself to have faith--I don't believe there is any such thing as "human faith". It is either faith from the Holy Spirit or it is not faith.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I'm going to bed--will catch up with you tomorrow.

 

[Earburner]

John 3:18 is just two verses later that John 3:16 which refers to the "world". It is quite likely that Jesus was speaking of those who belong to the world (which we all were before we were saved).

In that you are correct, but you side stepped my question.
What does John 3:18 and Rom. 8:9 say, in regards to what you previously posted:
"2. But, Jesus Christ is Lord of All who are on planet earth--whether they recognize Him or not."