The 10 Commandments are FOREVER
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Oceanprayers
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
He is just telling you what he does, which is merely encouraging others to keep the commandments as he believes we should.
Personally, I "keep" the substance or Spirit rather than the letter of the law (keeping a day holy); I abide in Jesus. He is in me, and thus the Sabbath is 24/7/365 in me. Barny knows what I believe and I encourage him to do what he believes, unless or until he sees what I've known for decades.
@BarnyFife
Who is "erasing" this commandment? Just as Jesus showed us the real spiritual significance of the Ten Commandments in the Sermon on the Mount, He also showed us the real spiritual significance of the Sabbath in the Lord's Day ("the morrow after the Sabbath")-- a day for (a) worship, (b) rest, and (c) good works. John said "I was IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord's Day" and Jesus said that they who worship must worship in Spirit and in truth. Do you see the connection? It is not the numerical day of the week but the PURPOSE of that one day that matters to God. Thus we read "Upon the FIRST DAY of the week..." in the NT.
Now notice that Paul did not meet with the Christians in Troas on the Sabbath day, but upon the first day of the week (to worship, to break bread in the Lord's Supper, and to preach to the congregation).
And there accompanied him into Asia Sopater of Berea; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timotheus; and of Asia, Tychicus and Trophimus. These going before tarried for us at Troas. And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. (Acts 20:4-8)
By then, it had become the practice of all Christians to worship on the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week -- the day on which Christ rose from the dead and was worshipped by His apostles. The day on which Thomas declared "My Lord, and my God!" The day on which the Day of Pentecost occurred, the Holy Spirit was poured out, and 3,000 souls were added to the Church.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Oceanprayers
Active Member
Luke 10:27
When Jesus said the two greatest commands encapsulate the ten commands, how do we say we believe in those 2 greatest? While insisting the 10 are done away?
When Jesus said the two greatest commands encapsulate the ten commands, how do we say we believe in those 2 greatest? While insisting the 10 are done away?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Revelation 20:12 shows other books, beside the Book of Life. That's where all mankind's names are.
It should be obvious that OSAS is false, and not an assurance that you can do whatever and God HAS TO accept His "elect." If God just saves His elect then names could not be removed. Right?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
But we don't need a DAY anymore, seeing as the Word is the Creator, and Jesus is the Word, so He, the Creator is on the INSIDE. We don't need an OUTSIDE reminder.
The Old Covenant keeping of one day a week is the LETTER of the law. Jesus inside us as the Spirit of Christ is the SPIRIT of the law.
As long as you recognize that Jesus has to be inside us, making us born again, it doesn't matter what day of the week you would like to assemble yourselves together. But don't make a LAW out of it and impose it on others who are free from sin, AND the law.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
as I said Enoch, you can do any gymnastics you like and none of them will change one jot or title of God's finger written ten.
Showing you what is in the Bible is not gymnastics. But you are having to do mental gymnastics to avoid the significance of what is posted from Scripture. Paul could have met the Christians on the 7th day Sabbath, but instead he met them on the first day of the week. Which totally demolishes the position of Sabbatarians.
Oceanprayers
Active Member
That's a false implication against eternal life in Christ.
Eternal irrevocable salvation is biblical. What is not biblical is detractors stating eternal salvation means believers can do whatever they like and remain saved.
And I'll tell you, eternally saved, OSAS , Christians know that!
1 John 3
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
That passage alone revokes detractors of OSAS, eternal irrevocable salvation, argument that states OSAS is false because for it to be true its believers would necessarily rest assured they could sin like the Dickens and still see heaven.
And that's why eternal irrevocable salvation by God is untrue!
In reality that argument in any form is a disguise. A ruse. That its propagators use in order to deny the Gospel itself.
A realistic conclusion to arrive at because the detractors ruse is antithetical to the Gospel itself.
They argue, salvation=a license to sin.
And that's obvious because salvation is from what? Sin.
The protestation against salvation, which is by definition eternal (OSAS), irrevocable eternal salvation, that isn't our gift to ourselves by choice but is a free irrevocable gift of God, is a license to sin is actually an argument against Messiah, Jesus, his crucifixion, and the new covenant his blood sealed.
Because Jesus said he gives us eternal life! Which means we don't suffer the second death.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." Luke 6:1
Jesus said salvation is a gift of God! Not of ourselves!
The argument that says we have to strive to remain saved negates the security of eternal salvation. And thinking eternal salvation is a license to sin is evidence the proponents of the argument are unaware
of what salvation is.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
We can assemble yourselves any time in any way we want, which incidentally the 4th commandment has nothing to say about. It does however make it unshakeably clear that we are to remember the 7th day ....and it gives the reasons. If you don't like them or the day for that matter you need to take it up with God....but as far as instruction goes and its reason, the Commandment is crystal clear.
Incidentally, had people remembered, ie, not forgotten God's day given us, Mr Charlie Darwin's ideas would never have got off the ground, however in forgetting, people set themselves up to believe a lie.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.....meeting up with people and having communion with them whenever does not constitute a reason to forget The 7th day and your highlighted words only adds to the foolishness of your argument
Oceanprayers
Active Member
Anti-OSAS , Sabbath, proponents want to impose their beliefs on others.
Why else would they continually insist neither eternal salvation or sabbath are relevant for Christians today?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Stop being so defensive. I'm not going to mock anyone for keeping a sabbath day per the law of Moses. You posted James 2:10 and I sincerely don't know why.
Yes, I know that! That's why I'm perplexed about you posting James 2:10!
That's not the argument. There are 10 Commandments in the 10 Commandments. The argument is the 4th commandment now gets kept in the new relaxed Sunday way. Another argument is the 4th simply doesn't have to be literally kept anymore because we have been brought near to God in sabbath rest through Christ. Just as all we draw near to God through Christ regarding animal sacrifice for sin, Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, etc.I can't understand how folks can rationalize that for 1900 years, Christians had the number of commandments all wrong. Can you? Straight answer, no dodgery, please, if you're going to give one.
I know that I'm reading Galatians 5:23 correctly, and not you, by this:How can you not see that is not what the text is saying at all?
There is no law against exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, but there is a law against Sabbath-breaking. Since Sabbath-breaking is not one of the fruits of the Spirit. Does the text say resting in Jesus as spiritual Sabbath-keeping is a fruit of the Spirit? No. Then, by your logic, "spiritual Sabbath-keeping" is against God's law. Commence twisting.
"8 ...he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,”a and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”b 10Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Romans 13:8-10
You fulfill the law when you love. And not just some commandments, ALL commandments. That leaves no debt of law when you 'love your neighbor as yourself'. So we know that Paul is saying in Galatians 5:23 that when you walk according to the qualities of the Spirit you have fulfilled ALL the commandments and, therefore, you are in violation of no law. ALL the commandments are fulfilled when you love. That's what Romans 8-10 says above. That means when I walk in the spiritual obedience to love others I have fulfilled the sabbath command, too. I didn't say it, Paul did.
Right.
They were claiming that all mankind's names are written in the Book of Life; including the non-Elect.
That verse proves otherwise.
dad
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone needs to practice to sin. Even when we practice not sinning, as Paul said, we fail.
This commentary explains it fairly well.
If we say that we have no sin,.... Notwithstanding believers are cleansed from their sins by the blood of Christ, yet they are not without sin; no man is without sin: this is not only true of all men, as they come into the world, being conceived in sin, and shapen in iniquity, and of all that are in a state of unregeneracy, and of God's elect, while in such a state, but even of all regenerated and sanctified persons in this life; as appears by the ingenuous confessions of sin made by the saints in all ages; by their complaints concerning it, and groans under it; by the continual war in them between flesh and spirit; and by their prayers for the discoveries of pardoning grace, and for the fresh application of Christ's blood for cleansing; by their remissness in the discharge of duty, and by their frequent slips and falls, and often backslidings: and though their sins are all pardoned, and they are justified from all things by the righteousness of Christ, yet they are not without sin; though they are freed from the guilt of sin, and are under no obligation to punishment on account of it, yet not from the being of it; their sins were indeed transferred from them to Christ, and he has bore them, and took them and put them away, and they are redeemed from them, and are acquitted, discharged, and pardoned, so that sin is not imputed to them, and God sees no iniquity in them in the article of justification; and also, their iniquities are caused to pass from them, as to the guilt of them, and are taken out of their sight, and they have no more conscience of them, having their hearts sprinkled and purged by the blood of Jesus, and are clear of all condemnation, the curse of the law, the wrath of God, or the second death, by reason of them; yet pardon of sin, and justification from it, though they take away the guilt of sin, and free from obligation to punishment, yet they do not take out the being of sin, or cause it to cease to act, or do not make sins cease to be sins, or change the nature of actions, of sinful ones, to make them harmless, innocent, or indifferent; the sins of believers are equally sins with other persons, are of the same kind and nature, and equally transgressions of the law, and many of them are attended with more aggravating circumstances, and are taken notice of by God, and resented by him, and for which he chastises his people in love: now though a believer may say that he has not this or that particular sin, or is not guilty of this or that sin, for he has the seeds of all sin in him, yet he cannot say he has no sin; and though he may truly say he shall have no sin, for in the other state the being and principle of sin will be removed, and the saints will be perfectly holy in themselves, yet he cannot, in this present life, say that he is without it: if any of us who profess to be cleansed from sin by the blood of Christ should affirm this.."
1 John 1 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
So we need to balance how John said no one can say he has no sin, and how he said those that sin are not of god. I find a good balance is to look at the main points of that chapter (1 Jn 3) one of the ways we know people have toe sort of sin he is talking about there is when they are unloving to brothers and sisters. Another major point is that His commandment is to believe. How then do we keep that commandment? Simple, we believe, and then we are not breaking His commandment.
No, they probably, like me, are thinking of something more like 'we do the best we can, and ask for forgiveness as Jesus said (those who never sin would need no forgiving), even many many times as necessary. Being saved is not a license to pretend we never sin and are better than others!
Hmm. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but you bring up an interesting point in the books.
Can't remember if it's in the accepted canon of scripture or if it's in the Book of Enoch, but somewhere it describes angels writing down all the deeds of every person. That's one of the books, to be sure.
Maybe Enoch111 knows.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I'll be as defensive as I want to be.
You don't have to disavow the law entirely to be in violation of James 2:10.
FB, the argument is always whatever kind of theological parkour you want it to be.
The Lord's Day is used only once in all of scripture. Revelation 1:10 - Using the Bible to define itself, we go to Isaiah 58:13 to find out what Day that is referring to.
Thus saith the Lord,
"If thou turn away thy foot from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable and shalt honor Him, ..."
Isaiah 58:13
What day could the Lord be speaking of as His HOLY Day?
"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: ..."
Genesis 2:3
The only day that was EVER blessed OR sanctified. The Saturday Sabbath HOLY to the Lord God Almighty. Just as unchanging as He is.
Malachi 3:6
That settles that.
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