Davy
Well-Known Member
I am civil with those who are civil with me. Those who mock and show hatred, I rebuke.
The 144,000 before God at the end.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
YOU Can't stand... that Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 TRUTH that Jesus showed His future return is POST-TRIBULATIONAL!
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
You statements are so... STUPID. You show you don't even know... yourself when you are MOCKING THE WORD OF GOD, when you think you are mocking me!!
Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
KJV
Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV
Brethren in Christ, IF... you do not understand Christ's parable of the TARES of the field, particularly His EXPLANATION, then you will have trouble with understand many other Scriptures about the false ones that have crept in among the Jews...
The following is Jesus' EXPLANATION of the parable of the tares, NOT another parable. So the following events He shows below are to be understood LITERALLY...
Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, "Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 He answered and said unto them, "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
KJV
Do you have ears to hear and eyes to see brethren? Whether or not you understand that parable will reveal whether you do or don't.
Davy
Well-Known Member
See, unbuild54 doesn't really understand about the "synagogue of Satan", which is NOT SIMPLY JUST ABOUT HIS JEWISH FALSE BRETHREN. That's a false teaching in the seminaries by... the "synagogue of Satan", which most of them they control today.
The "synagogue of Satan" is about the TARES of Christ's parable of the tares of the field in Matthew 13. And what did Jesus show WHO the "tares" are? I'll let Lord Jesus remind you brethren here in Christ just who those "tares" are, and who sowed them in today's world...
Matt 13:38-39
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
KJV
So there exists TRUE JUDAH, which means TRULY of the 'seed' of Israel, and that used the title of Jew at their return from their Babylon captivity (per the Jewish historian Josephus). These were made up ONLY of the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and a small remnant of the northern ten tribes, and the rest were foreigners that crept in.
And then there exists FALSE JEWS, who like JESUS SAID, only CLAIM TO BE JEWS, BUT ARE NOT, but are the "SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN", ie. the "TARES" which Satan sowed into this world. They are HIS children, the children of darkness, the "MYSTERY OF INIQUITY", the "workers of iniquity", the "many antichrists"!
I have no idea what you're babbling about.
Neither do you.
The gospel went first to the Jews. Romans 1:16; Acts 3:25-26; Acts 13:46
Satisfied?
Nah.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
So God was racist according to you, because none of the 12 disciples were Gentiles? You claim God excluded Gentiles from being one of the 12 disciples.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
So why do you keep declaring this false belief? You call the 144k the church, when clearly they are not.
I explained why the original 12 were all Jews. What don't you understand?
Contrary to Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22; you claim that the 12 tribes were exclusively Jews.
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The 144,000 before God at the end
The 144,000 make their appearance ON Earth, ON Mt ZION (aka SION), (outside of Jerusalem), with a Lamb, during the LAST Days Tribulations SENT down from Heaven.
THEIR mission/purpose…
IS: all about the order, way, manner, in which God brings about, fulfilling His Promise to SAVE HIS PEOPLE….”ISRAEL”.
Summoning ALL Jews…to the Mount…(whom such Jews historically are the generations from GODS PEOPLE…Hebrews, the Tribes of Israel, ISRAEL….For that THEY have opportunity For an exclusive…
“Come to Jesus Meeting”….by, through, of the Teaching and Preaching in and of THEIR OWN KIND…ISRAELITES. (Not Catholics, Not Christians, Not Muslims, Not Buddhists….NOT ANY OTHER religious organizational group….)but EXCLUSIVELY from ISRAELITES of EVERY TRIBE…teaching preaching their own LIKE ISRAELITES the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Glory to God, Faithful and True,
Taken
The 144,000 make their appearance ON Earth, ON Mt ZION (aka SION), (outside of Jerusalem), with a Lamb, during the LAST Days Tribulations SENT down from Heaven.
THEIR mission/purpose…
IS: all about the order, way, manner, in which God brings about, fulfilling His Promise to SAVE HIS PEOPLE….”ISRAEL”.
Summoning ALL Jews…to the Mount…(whom such Jews historically are the generations from GODS PEOPLE…Hebrews, the Tribes of Israel, ISRAEL….For that THEY have opportunity For an exclusive…
“Come to Jesus Meeting”….by, through, of the Teaching and Preaching in and of THEIR OWN KIND…ISRAELITES. (Not Catholics, Not Christians, Not Muslims, Not Buddhists….NOT ANY OTHER religious organizational group….)but EXCLUSIVELY from ISRAELITES of EVERY TRIBE…teaching preaching their own LIKE ISRAELITES the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Glory to God, Faithful and True,
Taken
The Church and the 144,000
Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – His Church:
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful obedient saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:
Judah means “praise” (Genesis 29:35)
Reuben means “see, a Son” (Genesis 29:32)
Gad means “fortunate” (Genesis 30:11)
Asher means “happy” (Genesis 30:13)
Naphtali means “wrestling” (Genesis 30:8)
Manasseh means “forgetting” (Genesis 41:51)
Simeon means “heard” (Genesis 29:33)
Levi means “attached” (Genesis 29:34)
Issachar means “wages” (Genesis 30:18)
Zebulon means “dwelling” (Genesis 30:20)
Joseph means “He will add” (Genesis 30:24)
Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Genesis 35:17–18)
Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:
Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)
Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.
Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)
The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).
Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.
While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.
Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.
The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…
Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)
No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.
John 6:27 KJV
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Perhaps not?
Much love!
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Keraz
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You refute your own beliefs.
The House of Judah consists of just the tribe of Judah and Benjamin, Some Levites and a few from other tribes. But the main group of Israelites are the House of Israel; the ten Northern tribes.
They still remain in exile and scattered around the world. THEY are the peoples who have accepted the Gospel and it is only those peoples who are the true Israelites of God. WE Christians are the ones grafted into the Tree of Life, that is Jesus.
The Jews continue on in their rejection of Jesus and now face their final punishment. Only a Messianic remnant will survive.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Do you have eyes? The Son of man is on the earth, not the church. The church is not the Son of man, nor the 144k.
Jesus is personally on earth, during the final harvest sowing the seeds.
The church is not on earth at this point. Since Jesus and the angels are on the earth, the Second Coming already happened.
The 144k are the first to be redeemed and changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, after the 6th Seal. They are chosen by God, just like the original 12 were chosen to go every where on earth Jesus goes.
The children of the kingdom live on earth during the Day of the Lord, not the church.
Jesus is sitting on a throne in a temple in Jerusalem, after the 6th Seal. The sheep and goats are brought by the angels before that throne to be judged. Matthew 25:31-32
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
No, you did not. All the 144k are of Jacob. Same thing as with the 12 disciples. We are not talking about Jews. We are talking about the natural born offspring of Jacob, not the billions of others who have mixed blood, as if you don't think that a son can have a son can have a son, just like in Scripture. The 12 may have been Jews like many posters are Americans, but we are not talking about Adam's offspring. We are talking about Jacob's.
This is an event that has not happened yet. This is not the church, because this event takes place after the Second Coming, and after the church has been removed. These people are still alive on the earth after the Second Coming.
All your interpretation does it strip this event of the actual people being changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and applies meaningless thought to the last 6,000 years, even though these people never even existed 6,000 years ago. These people are not symbolic of any belief you may have. There is currently no distinction in the church. These 144k are not about the church. But when you symbolize and apply this event to the church, you contradict John's distinct point that these people are separate, literal humans about to go through the Trumpets and Thunders with Jesus in person on the earth. They are the firstfruits, who have to die, just like those under the alter, had to leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh behind in the dust. These are people on the earth, those under the alter are waiting for.
"they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
The 144k are the firstfruits. Then comes the sheep harvest, and then the wheat harvest. The 144k were souls stripped out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The sheep are souls stripped out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The wheat are more Gentiles stripped out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. These people are changed, but not part of the church waiting in heaven. These are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom.
People who reject the Day of the Lord, and a thousand year reign of Christ on a throne in a temple in Jerusalem, have to explain away these firstfruits, as pertaining to the last 6,000 years, instead of the Day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
There is no implication of the church at all. It is clearly about Jacob's offspring via 12 of Jacob's sons or grandsons.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The 144k have nothing to do with the past 2 millennia. They are the firstfruits of the Day of the Lord. So all that applies to a future 1,000 years.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, you obviously missed Christ's EXPLANATION of the parable of the tares of the field that He gave to His disciples, IN PRIVATE. Here it is again...
And EXPLANATION does NOT mean just another parable. The following is Lord Jesus EXPLAINING what His parable means... LITERALLY...
Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, "Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."
His disciples didn't understand that parable of the tares either in verses 24-30 when He first gave it. So they asked Him to EXPLAIN it. And He did, with the following...
37 He answered and said unto them, "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
That above was actually first revealed in Genesis 3:15 about the 2 different 'seeds'. And God said He would put enmity between those two seeds. One is the Seed of the symbolic Woman, the lineage from the man Adam through which Jesus would be born. The other 'seed' represents those ordained for this present world to serve Satan, like his elect. Jude 4 points to these as the "certain men crept in unawares". They represent the "tares" in Jesus' parable.
In Jeremiah 24, God singled out these "tares" also, about the basket of figs that were rotten that Jeremiah saw. They were so rotten they were "evil" he said.
Matth.13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Since Jesus showed in Rev.20 there will be a period of a "thousand years" that will happen prior to their "lake of fire" destruction, we are to keep that in mind here.
41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Jesus covers that in the next Matt.25 chapter about the separation between His sheep and the goats.
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Many do not consider that if they are cast to hell, for the future "thousand years", like the "outer darkness", that is where they will be "wailing and gnashing of teeth" (see about those cast to the "outer darkness" per Matt.8:12 and Matt.22:13; and Matt.25:30).
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV
Once the "tares" are finally destroyed in the future "lake of fire" AFTER Christ's "thousand years" reign, per Rev.20, that is when that will be in effect with God's new heavens and a new earth.
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