The Age of God’s Grace

[Vengle]

The power of the carnal nature leads one into sin. The power of life in Christ (grace) leads us into the perfect will of God so that we cannot sin.

The gnostic heresy that John fought so hard to expose claims that we sin in the flesh but we are perfect in the Spirit...so that it is no longer OUR responsibility. That is a doctrine from hell of course.

Jesus didn't sin...and neither will His followers who are empowered by Him.

Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I like your post and agree with almost all of it but for one small detail.

Have you noticed that nowhere is the phrase "carnal nature" used in scripture? But instead it speaks of the "carnal mind" or just says “carnal”?

I like your post Episkopos but for the statement, "The power of the carnal nature leads one into sin." That word “nature” is what is confusing everyone.

Actually the problem is that our carnal self has no real power but imaginary power to the mind of one puffed up with pride.

Being powerless apart from God it is left to be easily, as Paul said, "sold under sin". It has no real power of its own to prevent it for it is designed to depend on God for its power. We can see that in verses such as 2 Corinthians 10: 4 where it shows how we have to get our power.

The word “carnal” is sarx. Ponder what Strong’s says about it:
“probably from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), “

But then Strong’s goes astray of its true meaning as he proceeds. There are no basis in the word’s roots to support his continued conclusion and it contradicts the previous definition he gave, saying:

“or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such)”

You see Strong’s erred into letting his beliefs influence him instead of sticking with the strict sense of the word. That just proves he is like us. :lol: And you will find derelicts in fancy clothing ( I say that lovingly you know :lol: ) that carry his err even further out of their pride in their beliefs and their intelligence. But it is not supported in its roots beyond the first definition he gave regardless of any man's pride saying differently.

Do you understand why sarx comes from the base of 4563 (saroo)?

Because the word “saroo” means “to brush off” or “broom”. sarx therefore merely refers to the superficial surface of a man. There is nothing about it to hold a nature of its own. It is just the shell of a man, as the broom sweeps the surface of things. Without God it is as nothing, having no real power of its own.

And all of their imagined intelligence cannot change that.

 

[RichardBurger]

Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

So the question is "how does one abide in Him."

To the religious mind we abide when we do not sin. (and yet the religious mind knows it sins)

Under grace we abide by placing our belief, faith, trust and confidence in His shed blood to pay for our sins as God has promised. In other words as long as we trust in the blood that was shed for us we abide "in Him."

 

[Episkopos]

So the question is "how does one abide in Him."

To the religious mind we abide when we do not sin. (and yet the religious mind knows it sins)

Under grace we abide by placing our belief, faith, trust and confidence in His shed blood to pay for our sins as God has promised. In other words as long as we trust in the blood that was shed for us we abide "in Him."

Actually when we abide in Him we are in a new power. We are filled to overflowing with His love and we experience the presence of God in a continual way. As such we cannot but do the perfect will of God. Grace is the keeping power of God that attaches us to His holy presence at all times.

I like your post and agree with almost all of it but for one small detail.

Have you noticed that nowhere is the phrase "carnal nature" used in scripture? But instead it speaks of the "carnal mind" or just says “carnal”?

I like your post Episkopos but for the statement, "The power of the carnal nature leads one into sin." That word “nature” is what is confusing everyone.

Actually the problem is that our carnal self has no real power but imaginary power to the mind of one puffed up with pride.

Being powerless apart from God it is left to be easily, as Paul said, "sold under sin". It has no real power of its own to prevent it for it is designed to depend on God for its power. We can see that in verses such as 2 Corinthians 10: 4 where it shows how we have to get our power.

The word “carnal” is sarx. Ponder what Strong’s says about it:
“probably from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), “

But then Strong’s goes astray of its true meaning as he proceeds. There are no basis in the word’s roots to support his continued conclusion and it contradicts the previous definition he gave, saying:

“or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such)”

You see Strong’s erred into letting his beliefs influence him instead of sticking with the strict sense of the word. That just proves he is like us. :lol: And you will find derelicts in fancy clothing ( I say that lovingly you know :lol: ) that carry his err even further out of their pride in their beliefs and their intelligence. But it is not supported in its roots beyond the first definition he gave regardless of any man's pride saying differently.

Do you understand why sarx comes from the base of 4563 (saroo)?

Because the word “saroo” means “to brush off” or “broom”. sarx therefore merely refers to the superficial surface of a man. There is nothing about it to hold a nature of its own. It is just the shell of a man, as the broom sweeps the surface of things. Without God it is as nothing, having no real power of its own.

And all of their imagined intelligence cannot change that.

Agree mostly as well!

The power of the sin nature can be felt when we get angry, jealous, envy, or fall deeply in love. All these powers are ours when we walk according to the old nature. Passion is a power that animates the fallen nature.

The cross destroys that old nature and the power it has on us in order to make us available to be led by the new nature in the Spirit.

Paul calls these...LAWS...

The law of sin and death...the old nature

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus...the new nature.

 

[Vengle]

Actually when we abide in Him we are in a new power. We are filled to overflowing with His love and we experience the presence of God in a continual way. As such we cannot but do the perfect will of God. Grace is the keeping power of God that attaches us to His holy presence at all times.

Amen Episkopos.

It is the power of God's love come to be in us because He loved us first.

We could relate many scriptures which show this and which show that if we really love him it translates to our always obeying him, but let's bring it down for a second to something almost everyone can relate to.

Young love. Look at the dedication of a young man and woman before their eyes have had a chance to see each others flaws.

They are inseparable. You cannot beat them apart with a stick. :lol: And all they think about is each other.

In this world because of the eventual disillusion we most all experience we have told ourselves that is a false love.

But it is not. It is just that our lack of experience ruins it. We will not find those flaws in God and his Son and that love will remain strong and just as binding always once we have really achieved that level of love.

How is that "in him"?

That kind of love binds two as one.

Just as in the two become one flesh (or, are supposed to anyway) in marriage.

If you have noticed, there are places where it speaks of Christ in us and places where it speaks of us in Christ.

What is that?

That is the two become one flesh as in marriage, I in her and she in me.

She is as my body and her body is as mine.

 

[RichardBurger]

I just explained all of that in another thread.

And I have rejected your explaination.

This that I am saying now is not that explanation I gave, but what you are believing makes Paul's words contradict themselves in places. You just do not realize it.

And you don not realize that I see no contradiction in Paul's writting because I do not blend the sciptures to fit a theology.

What I did explain in that other thread is that that very statement ("For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.") is true even of the man who begins as perfect but then turns to ignoring God. (Even as with Adam and Eve.)

No man BEGINS as perfect.

All it takes to make that so is for a man to ignore God and seek to do good based upon his own level of knowledge and wisdom.

Even for a perfect man who suddenly chooses to ignore God, Jeremiah 10:23 is true.

There are no perfect people in the flesh.

Fulness of humility would see that. Fulness of humility would never have a man seeking to be like God in that manner.

Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever..."

The question is, 'Are you humble enough to learn this? Or, will you cling to the attitude of Adam (thinking you can be like God someday with a new body) so that it prevents you from seeing?

I am the one on this, and other threads, that states we living in a body with a sinful nature can never make that bidy perfect by works of not sinning. Your writing in the above is rubbish

1. Will you continue to blame it all on your body rather than on your attitude?

2. Or will you accept that it will always be true that only one is good and that one is God and all that is good comes from him?

1. will you accept the fact that you live in a body that has a sinful nature and that that sinful body can not make itself un-sinful?

2a. I have never said otherwise.

James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.'

Even Jesus rejected being called good and he was perfect: Luke 18:19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."

Do you get that the point is that there can be no good apart from God for he is the standard for what is good and bad and not you yourself?

I am not the one that is claiming to be good.

If you do then you finally understand why there is no good in you or of you and never will be and you are beginning to think like Paul.

Even Jesus rejected seeing himself as the standard for what is good.

I have never claimed to be good in the flesh. That is why I can not understand where you are comimg from. -- About Paul, Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles and he is the one we are to listen to.

Romans 3:9-22
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God's Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
NKJV

You can defame me all you want by indicationg things that are not true but my faith is in the work of God on the cross. My faith in His work has made my spirit to be righteous "in Him." --- not in my flesh. One day I will put off this body of sin and will be given a new body like Christ's that will never sin and will live forever. That is the promise of God to all that will trust in His work on the cross.

 

[Vengle]

Richard, Richard, Richard.

OK.

 

[Vengle]

Actually when we abide in Him we are in a new power. We are filled to overflowing with His love and we experience the presence of God in a continual way. As such we cannot but do the perfect will of God. Grace is the keeping power of God that attaches us to His holy presence at all times.



Agree mostly as well!

The power of the sin nature can be felt when we get angry, jealous, envy, or fall deeply in love. All these powers are ours when we walk according to the old nature. Passion is a power that animates the fallen nature.

The cross destroys that old nature and the power it has on us in order to make us available to be led by the new nature in the Spirit.

Paul calls these...LAWS...

The law of sin and death...the old nature

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus...the new nature.

The problem with using the word “carnal nature” is that men confuse it as being a fixed defiant intelligence of the flesh and they equate “sin nature” as interchangeable with it. But actually “sin nature is not a phrase found in scripture, either.

Things can be spoken of as having a nature if that nature was not so often confused with meaning some sort of empowering intelligence. A nature often merely means a quality.

The nature of water is that it is wet. The nature of wine is its sweetness or dryness, even its bitterness to the human palate and taste. The nature of hot peppers is that they are hot. And because they are hot they have an effect upon us. The nature of sin is that it is addictive and harmful. That is because sin is based in ignorance and ignorance keeps repeating the same mistakes as it is drawn to the sin as though a comfort when the comfort of God is absent.

We are designed to be reflections of God’s glory. He must glorify us. Our own glory is vanity. We are really but an empty vessel apart from Him but for the fact that err quickly begins to fill us.

Err, (sin), like alcohol has an addictive nature or quality. And it is the nature of sin that reels us in as its slave. We are not that nature. That nature belongs to sin even as it belongs to alcohol. We are not our illness and our illness is not us. But we yield to that nature without God is in control of our vessel. We are just a vessel and whatever we submit ourselves to we are its slave to be filled by it as it pleases.

I am sensing too much flesh in this thread and some are taking offense by that flesh. That is how we as mere vessels become enslaved to sin. (Not you Episkopos)

 

[Episkopos]

The problem with using the word “carnal nature” is that men confuse it as being a fixed defiant intelligence of the flesh and they equate “sin nature” as interchangeable with it. But actually “sin nature is not a phrase found in scripture, either.

Things can be spoken of as having a nature if that nature was not so often confused with meaning some sort of empowering intelligence. A nature often merely means a quality.

The nature of water is that it is wet. The nature of wine is its sweetness or dryness, even its bitterness to the human palate and taste. The nature of hot peppers is that they are hot. And because they are hot they have an effect upon us. The nature of sin is that it is addictive and harmful. That is because sin is based in ignorance and ignorance keeps repeating the same mistakes as it is drawn to the sin as though a comfort when the comfort of God is absent.

We are designed to be reflections of God’s glory. He must glorify us. Our own glory is vanity. We are really but an empty vessel apart from Him but for the fact that err quickly begins to fill us.

Err, (sin), like alcohol has an addictive nature or quality. And it is the nature of sin that reels us in as its slave. We are not that nature. That nature belongs to sin even as it belongs to alcohol. We are not our illness and our illness is not us. But we yield to that nature without God is in control of our vessel. We are just a vessel and whatever we submit ourselves to we are its slave to be filled by it as it pleases.

I am sensing too much flesh in this thread and some are taking offense by that flesh. That is how we as mere vessels become enslaved to sin. (Not you Episkopos)

The sin nature is like a corrupted operating system that keeps crashing.

The new nature in Christ is an upgrade that skypes God and the brethren and needs never crash at all!

 

[Vengle]

The sin nature is like a corrupted operating system that keeps crashing.

The new nature in Christ is an upgrade that skypes God and the brethren and needs never crash at all!

That describes it perfectly !!!

 

[Vengle]

I apologize to you Richard.

I see what you saw.

It is because I have a tendency to use the word "you" when I should be saying "we".

I did not mean to make you think I was directly impugning you personally.

We are all in this trap of sin together and as Episkopos said it is like a defective form of law that trips us up like bad programming.

I like the way he made that so simple. I got to remember that !!!

I also need to remember to say "we" instead of "you" as I do apply all that I say to myself equally.

 

[7angels]

i have a question for you all. what is grace? does everyone have grace? how does grace work? it seems to me that God gave us all grace but not everyone walks in grace. so what is the prerequisite to allow grace to run free in my life?

 

[Vengle]

i have a question for you all. what is grace? does everyone have grace? how does grace work? it seems to me that God gave us all grace but not everyone walks in grace. so what is the prerequisite to allow grace to run free in my life?

Grace is primarily a verb denoting action just as love is the principally a verb denoting action in both the OT and the NT.

How do we know God's love?

That is also how we learn to show God's grace.

When we are told to forgive each other and to bear each others sins that is love motivating us to show grace after the example of God.

I should add that the grace is really in how we treat them after forgiving them. Grace is akin to undeserved kindness, for which reason some Bible translation use "undeserved kindness" instead of the word "grace".

God's grace allows the wicked to share and benefit from the same rain and fruitful harvests of the field that the righteous benefit from.

Grace is not meant to be a permanent thing but to allow time for the recovery of the one requiring undeserved kindness.

What might make that confusing is that we often speak of a host of a dinner party being a gracious host. But yet it denotes that the host showed a temporary kindness that made all feel welcome and cared for though that host did not really have to go that far. And because they do not really have to go that far we tend to measure the degree of a host's graciousness, noting that some are more gracious than others.

 

[Episkopos]

i have a question for you all. what is grace? does everyone have grace? how does grace work? it seems to me that God gave us all grace but not everyone walks in grace. so what is the prerequisite to allow grace to run free in my life?

Grace is the keeping power of God. It can be "passive" or "active".

Passive grace means God is watching out for us...protecting us from harm and leading us in the right way.

Active grace is the walk in resurrection power where we are actually abiding in Christ. No sin is found there. We are walking exactly as Jesus in His power.

 

[RichardBurger]

(All verses taken from the NKJV)

Romans 11:25
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Romans 16:25
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.

1 Corinthians 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Note that there are different ages.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed —
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Note that the sinful flesh (corruptible) must be changed to incorruption.

Ephesians 1:7-10
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth — in Him.

Note that we are living in the dispensation of the fullness of the times.

Ephesians 3:1-5
3 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles —
2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),
5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:

This means exactly what it says.

Colossians 1:25-27
25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God,
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 2:2-3
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

All the above is dismissed by the modern Christian Church which says the teachings of the kingdom gospel is the same and we should place more
credence in what Jesus said to the Jews than what Paul says to the Gentiles.

God's grace for this age is shown in the teachings of the mystery, Paul's gospel

 

[Vengle]

Different ages all connected to a common goal and purpose.

It is no different than if my goal and purpose is to build a house.

I dedicate all my efforts the first month to preparing the foundation. The second month I might be ready to dedicate my effort toward creating the framing for the first floor, perhaps the third month I will concentrate on the framing of the second floor and the fourth month the framing for the roof.

Then I dedicate the fifth month and maybe even into the six month to covering the exterior walls and the roof.

And so forth and so on until my goal and purpose is realized, accomplished, finished.

You do so complicate things unnecessarily. :lol:

 

[RichardBurger]

Different ages all connected to a common goal and purpose.

It is no different than if my goal and purpose is to build a house.

I dedicate all my efforts the first month to preparing the foundation. The second month I might be ready to dedicate my effort toward creating the framing for the first floor, perhaps the third month I will concentrate on the framing of the second floor and the fourth month the framing for the roof.

Then I dedicate the fifth month and maybe even into the six month to covering the exterior walls and the roof.

And so forth and so on until my goal and purpose is realized, accomplished, finished.

You do so complicate things unnecessarily. :lol:

So it is unnecessary to understand the gospel that saves in this age of God's grace.

What I believe will send me, either to heaven or to hell.

I will believe the gospel that Jesus gave to Paul for those that will believe it.

To believe in the gospel of the kingdom for the Jews will not save anyone in this age. Nor will the BLENDING of both the gospel of the kingdom for the Jews and the gospel of grace for all of mankind save anyone in this age of grace. A person must "rightly divide the word of truth."

The scriptures plainly tell us that Paul's gospel of the grace of God is for this age.

 

[Episkopos]

So it is unnecessary to understand the gospel that saves in this age of God's grace.

What I believe will send me, either to heaven or to hell.

I will believe the gospel that Jesus gave to Paul for those that will believe it.

To believe in the gospel of the kingdom for the Jews will not save anyone in this age. Nor will the BLENDING of both the gospel of the kingdom for the Jews and the gospel of grace for all of mankind save anyone in this age of grace. A person must "rightly divide the word of truth."

The scriptures plainly tell us that Paul's gospel of the grace of God is for this age.

Do we just receive and believe in a radical statement like Jesus dying for us...or do we believe the radical message of the gospel to a point where we believe through Christ we can do anything...like overcome sin?

Is God looking to be believed or is He looking for an active faith that believes in the power of God to do things NOW!

 

[Vengle]

Do we just receive and believe in a radical statement like Jesus dying for us...or do we believe the radical message of the gospel to a point where we believe through Christ we can do anything...like overcome sin?

Is God looking to be believed or is He looking for an active faith that believes in the power of God to do things NOW!

That statement is so meat for pondering that I hate to say anything which might draw attention away from meditating upon it.

But I would sure like to know what Richard thinks the quality of God was that recognized the faith of men like as Abel, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham before that Old Law was given when these men where as dead in Adam on the very 24 hour day that Adam sinned.

That faith we are clearly told was credited to them as righteousness.

Perhaps Richard thinks that was not based upon Christ and upon Christ's ransom as today.

But the most important promise that Abraham put faith in was the promise of that seed who is Jesus.

Abel believed in the same promised seed as shown at Genesis 3:15, and so did Enoch and Noah.

God's love is the birth source of God's grace. And God's love provided that grace based upon that seed of promise from the beginning of Creation just as today. thus Jesus is referred to as "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

God entered the period which focused on the Law of sin and death only as a means to wake up more than just those few like as Abel, Enoch, Noah and Abraham. It is not that His grace was not there or He would not have cared to wake them up to their need of Christ. And it took grace born of love else he would have just destroyed them.

The only difference now in this age is that now that sin has been shown up to be what it is in this world God is able with us to focus more completely upon His provisions of grace which do the actual saving of us rather than just the exposing of our sin.

Richard is proof that it is hazardous too hold too tightly to what we believe for it then only blinds us from seeing more.


I will now say something that will rock some:

If we remain in the "O wretched man that I am" state we have not moved on from the Old Covenant into the New.

That Law's purpose was to convict us in our hearts of sin and prove to us that we were wretched on our own thus leading us to the power to no longer be wretched in Christ.

So if anyone is yet wretched they have not moved along with God into the new age failing to understand its purpose.

 

[RichardBurger]

Do we just receive and believe in a radical statement like Jesus dying for us...or do we believe the radical message of the gospel to a point where we believe through Christ we can do anything...like overcome sin?

Is God looking to be believed or is He looking for an active faith that believes in the power of God to do things NOW!

Placing your belief, faith, trust and confidence in the work of God is all that is required under the gospel of grace. (Faith + nothing). The scripture tell us that we, the children of God, have already overcome our sins of the flesh by trusting in the shed blood. But you think it has to be obtained over time by our works.

In case you just can't see it, the scripture tells us what we do to overcome our sins of the flesh. It is our faith (believing in God's word [promises]). The children of God have already overcome their sins of the flesh when they became reconciled to God by faith in Jesus' blood shed on the cross. They accept it through faith. But that does not make their flesh sinless. It still has to die.

That statement is so meat for pondering that I hate to say anything which might draw attention away from meditating upon it.

But I would sure like to know what Richard thinks the quality of God was that recognized the faith of men like as Abel, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham before that Old Law was given when these men where as dead in Adam on the very 24 hour day that Adam sinned.

That faith we are clearly told was credited to them as righteousness.

Perhaps Richard thinks that was not based upon Christ and upon Christ's ransom as today.

But the most important promise that Abraham put faith in was the promise of that seed who is Jesus.

Abel believed in the same promised seed as shown at Genesis 3:15, and so did Enoch and Noah.

God's love is the birth source of God's grace. And God's love provided that grace based upon that seed of promise from the beginning of Creation just as today. thus Jesus is referred to as "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

God entered the period which focused on the Law of sin and death only as a means to wake up more than just those few like as Abel, Enoch, Noah and Abraham. It is not that His grace was not there or He would not have cared to wake them up to their need of Christ. And it took grace born of love else he would have just destroyed them.

The only difference now in this age is that now that sin has been shown up to be what it is in this world God is able with us to focus more completely upon His provisions of grace which do the actual saving of us rather than just the exposing of our sin.

Richard is proof that it is hazardous too hold too tightly to what we believe for it then only blinds us from seeing more.


I will now say something that will rock some:

If we remain in the "O wretched man that I am" state we have not moved on from the Old Covenant into the New.

That Law's purpose was to convict us in our hearts of sin and prove to us that we were wretched on our own thus leading us to the power to no longer be wretched in Christ.

So if anyone is yet wretched they have not moved along with God into the new age failing to understand its purpose.

A total preversion of what I have said and belief, therefore I see no need to say more than I have already said except for this. Those that think they are saved by their works over time are the ones that have no peace with God because they will never know if they have done enough good works to be saved. --- As for me I feel like Paul did when he wrote Romans

Romans 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
NKJV

Are you persuaded??? I am.

 

[Vengle]

Placing your belief, faith, trust and confidence in the work of God is all that is required under the gospel of grace. (Faith + nothing). The scripture tell us that we, the children of God, have already overcome our sins of the flesh by trusting in the shed blood. But you think it has to be obtained over time by our works.

In case you just can't see it, the scripture tells us what we do to overcome our sins of the flesh. It is our faith (believing in God's word [promises]). The children of God have already overcome their sins of the flesh when they became reconciled to God by faith in Jesus' blood shed on the cross. They accept it through faith. But that does not make their flesh sinless. It still has to die.



A total preversion of what I have said and belief, therefore I see no need to say more than I have already said except for this. Those that think they are saved by their works over time are the ones that have no peace with God because they will never know if they have done enough good works to be saved. --- As for me I feel like Paul did when he wrote Romans

Romans 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
NKJV

Are you persuaded??? I am.

Persuaded enough to agree with James that Faith plus nothing equal dead.

James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Persuaded enough to have the necessary works without imagining the works just because they are required are what saves me.

Persuaded enough to not be fearful of works.