The Age of God’s Grace

[Prentis]

Persuaded enough to agree with James that Faith plus nothing equal dead.

James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Persuaded enough to have the necessary works without imagining the works just because they are required are what saves me.

Persuaded enough to not be fearful of works.

Right on brother!

Fear of obedience is fear of failure, and actually a LACK of faith in the mercy of God. To relieve their fears, men make a doctrine according to which if you just believe hard enough, you somehow are saved... They have a 'magic Jesus'.

Faith steps out in obedience, or at least an attempt to obey, trusting that God will have mercy on the one who is whole hearted, and trusting God to be merciful and teach one his ways.

 

[RichardBurger]

Persuaded enough to agree with James that Faith plus nothing equal dead.

James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Persuaded enough to have the necessary works without imagining the works just because they are required are what saves me.

Persuaded enough to not be fearful of works.

Is that all you've got, to quote a writing by James who was under the Law of Moses? So you do not believe James when he wrote James 1:1. You only believe what he wrote that puts us back under the law of works.

In case you haven't heard, Paul said we are no longer under the Law. We have been set free from the law of works.

In my case the works of Jesus on the cross are enough to save me from all my sins of the flesh.

Now, just because I do not believe I am made good by my works does not mean I do not have any. But I am not on this forum to set myself up as sinless as some are.

Matthew 6:1-4
6 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
NKJV

Matthew 6:16-18
16 "Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
NKJV

 

[Vengle]

Is that all you've got, to quote a writing by James who was under the Law of Moses? So you do not believe James when he wrote

James 1:1. You only believe what he wrote that puts us back under the law of works.

In case you haven't heard, Paul said we are no longer under the Law. We have been set free from the law of works.

In my case the works of Jesus on the cross are enough to save me from all my sins of the flesh.

Now, just because I do not believe I am made good by my works does not mean I do not have any. But I am not on this forum to set myself up as sinless as some are.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I need to be able to post more laughs admin !!!

You said it Richard and it is now there for all to see.

You honestly believe that James and Paul taught different gospels?

What you are saying would make James and Paul enemies for Paul would have seen James as an enemy to the gospel of Christ.

 

[veteran]

There's a fine line between Christ's Grace and being careful to maintain good works to prove our Faith on Him. None of us are saved by our own works, but only by Christ's Work on the cross. Doesn't mean we are not to have good works to reveal our Faith. As a matter of fact, when Jesus said for us to so let our 'light shine' before men, that is specifically about good works that reveal our Faith on Him.

Christ said He can forgive all manner of sin (except blasphemy against The Holy Spirit). The devil is taking advantage of the fine line between a believer with good works to show their Faith is not dead, and a believer like the unprofitable servant who Christ said will be cast to the "outer darkness" (Matt.25). Our Lord Jesus also warned us how every tree that doesn't bring forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire (Matt.3; John 15).

Christ also warned us how He will tell those of His servants that do 'iniquity' to get away from Him when He returns and they say to Him, "Lord, lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?" (Matthew 7:21-23).


So who do you think ideas come from that try to tell a believer it doesn't matter what kind of works they have, or whether they have any good works at all, that it cannot affect their Salvation once they've believed on Christ Jesus? It's the devil trying to get us to believe that.

 

[Episkopos]

Placing your belief, faith, trust and confidence in the work of God is all that is required under the gospel of grace. (Faith + nothing). The scripture tell us that we, the children of God, have already overcome our sins of the flesh by trusting in the shed blood. But you think it has to be obtained over time by our works.

In case you just can't see it, the scripture tells us what we do to overcome our sins of the flesh. It is our faith (believing in God's word [promises]). The children of God have already overcome their sins of the flesh when they became reconciled to God by faith in Jesus' blood shed on the cross. They accept it through faith. But that does not make their flesh sinless. It still has to die.

You are espousing gnosticism. We are truly made sinless by grace...so that the world declares us righteous and holy. Yes the world!!!! What we are is seen by every day people. Deluded people have an opinion of themselves that others do not share.
So it is with deluded "believers".

We actually cannot sin when we are under grace. We can't be stealing in God's presence!~~~~~

 

[lawrance]

Did the Jews fail because of there own good works.

Some i think can not understand the difference between 'their own good works' and someone doing a work in God ? a big difference i would say.

Your so called good works don't cut it at all, but it may not be a sin and then again in some ways a persons so called good works could happen to be a sinful thing.

Good works are only just when in Christ, as it has noting to do with your self at all, least you boast.

What about all the different Churches that boast about giving food etc to other countries, is that not a work? yet they preach against good works ? do they not.

Praying = good works ?

If one came to you hungry and naked would you give him a scorpion and send him on his way or do you have a duty in Christ.

 

[RichardBurger]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I need to be able to post more laughs admin !!!

You said it Richard and it is now there for all to see.

You honestly believe that James and Paul taught different gospels?

What you are saying would make James and Paul enemies for Paul would have seen James as an enemy to the gospel of Christ.

Your idea of the gospel of Christ is based on grace blended with the gospel of the kingdom. These are two different gospels since the Gentiles were never promised a kingdom on this earth.

Yes, they taught different gospels. One was that Jesus was the promised Messiah and king for the Jews. AND HE WAS/IS. I have asked before, many times, for anyone to show me where, in scriptures, Jesus and the 12 reciended the Law of Moses and no one has ever done it. However, I can show that in Paul's letters the gospel that was given to Paul, by Jesus, did reciend the Law of Moses. Can you prove, by the sciptures that what I have said is false?

What you have said about my teaching puts Paul and James being enemies is true and I can back it up with scriptures.

Romans 11:28
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
NKJV --- Perhaps you missed this one in your studies.

Jesus and the 12 never taught that the Jews were no longer under the Law of Moses. It is obvious, in the scriptures, that the Jews were always trying to get those under grace back under the Law of Moses and they were enemies of the gospel of grace. Paul even said that anyone who preached a gospel other than the one he preached was to be accursed. In this age of God's grace no one can get into heaven except through Paul's gospel of grace. Those, today, that blend works in with grace are, according to Paul, accursed.

You are espousing gnosticism. We are truly made sinless by grace...so that the world declares us righteous and holy. Yes the world!!!! What we are is seen by every day people. Deluded people have an opinion of themselves that others do not share.
So it is with deluded "believers".

We actually cannot sin when we are under grace. We can't be stealing in God's presence!~~~~~

I have found that, to most, anyone who teaches something other than what they believe is teaching gnosticism. Men called Jesus a devil. So you don't bother me when you make accusations that are not true just to try and sllence what I write. God be the judge between you and I.

I am teaching the scriptures that most will not read as they are written. I am teaching the gospel of grace. I am not afraid of teaching the gospel of grace because it is the power of God for salvation in this age. God does not see us as sinners when we are "in Christ" but our sinful bodies still sin.

 

[Prentis]

God does not see us as sinners when we are "in Christ" but our sinful bodies still sin.

That is garbage.

[sup]3[/sup] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [sup]4[/sup] He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [sup]5[/sup] But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. [sup]6[/sup] He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

You are teaching what is not written, but twisted by men to their own destruction. Paul makes it clear in Romans 8 that the gospel frees us from the power of the the law of sin and death, the old nature. That is the gospel; Christ has come that we might be free, and walk by the law of the spirit and life.

 

[Vengle]

Your idea of the gospel of Christ is based on grace blended with the gospel of the kingdom. These are two different gospels since the Gentiles were never promised a kingdom on this earth.

Yes, they taught different gospels. One was that Jesus was the promised Messiah and king for the Jews. AND HE WAS/IS. I have asked before, many times, for anyone to show me where, in scriptures, Jesus and the 12 reciended the Law of Moses and no one has ever done it. However, I can show that in Paul's letters the gospel that was given to Paul, by Jesus, did reciend the Law of Moses. Can you prove, by the sciptures that what I have said is false?

What you have said about my teaching puts Paul and James being enemies is true and I can back it up with scriptures.

Romans 11:28
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
NKJV --- Perhaps you missed this one in your studies.

Jesus and the 12 never taught that the Jews were no longer under the Law of Moses. It is obvious, in the scriptures, that the Jews were always trying to get those under grace back under the Law of Moses and they were enemies of the gospel of grace. Paul even said that anyone who preached a gospel other than the one he preached was to be accursed. In this age of God's grace no one can get into heaven except through Paul's gospel of grace. Those, today, that blend works in with grace are, according to Paul, accursed.

Sorry if it seems like anyone is picking on you Richard. I for one am just playfully goading you I as I do my own flesh brothers.

That is an interesting perspective you give of Paul's words at Romans 11:28.

I do not agree with you that it is saying that about anyone other than those who were yet in blindness, however.

I agree with Prentis in post #88

I believe what Prentis said is exactly what the following verses tell us:

Romans 8:11-12 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."

 

[Episkopos]

Your idea of the gospel of Christ is based on grace blended with the gospel of the kingdom. These are two different gospels since the Gentiles were never promised a kingdom on this earth.

Yes, they taught different gospels. One was that Jesus was the promised Messiah and king for the Jews. AND HE WAS/IS. I have asked before, many times, for anyone to show me where, in scriptures, Jesus and the 12 reciended the Law of Moses and no one has ever done it. However, I can show that in Paul's letters the gospel that was given to Paul, by Jesus, did reciend the Law of Moses. Can you prove, by the sciptures that what I have said is false?

What you have said about my teaching puts Paul and James being enemies is true and I can back it up with scriptures.

Romans 11:28
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
NKJV --- Perhaps you missed this one in your studies.

Jesus and the 12 never taught that the Jews were no longer under the Law of Moses. It is obvious, in the scriptures, that the Jews were always trying to get those under grace back under the Law of Moses and they were enemies of the gospel of grace. Paul even said that anyone who preached a gospel other than the one he preached was to be accursed. In this age of God's grace no one can get into heaven except through Paul's gospel of grace. Those, today, that blend works in with grace are, according to Paul, accursed.



I have found that, to most, anyone who teaches something other than what they believe is teaching gnosticism. Men called Jesus a devil. So you don't bother me when you make accusations that are not true just to try and sllence what I write. God be the judge between you and I.

I am teaching the scriptures that most will not read as they are written. I am teaching the gospel of grace. I am not afraid of teaching the gospel of grace because it is the power of God for salvation in this age. God does not see us as sinners when we are "in Christ" but our sinful bodies still sin.

Gnosticism states that one is saved by a certain knowledge...like a password that justifies us. Just say JESUS!!! ..then you can sin as you please.....and it doesn't count anymore. Gnosticism makes God into a Rumpelstilzkin who throws a fit if you don't get His name right....unfortunately many denoms portray God in this way.

Did the Jews fail because of there own good works.

Some i think can not understand the difference between 'their own good works' and someone doing a work in God ? a big difference i would say.

Your so called good works don't cut it at all, but it may not be a sin and then again in some ways a persons so called good works could happen to be a sinful thing.

Good works are only just when in Christ, as it has noting to do with your self at all, least you boast.

What about all the different Churches that boast about giving food etc to other countries, is that not a work? yet they preach against good works ? do they not.

Praying = good works ?

If one came to you hungry and naked would you give him a scorpion and send him on his way or do you have a duty in Christ.

Good works can be performed by anyone...even Samaritans. Only PERFECT works can be done in Christ.

 

[RichardBurger]

Gnosticism states that one is saved by a certain knowledge...like a password that justifies us. Just say JESUS!!! ..then you can sin as you please.....and it doesn't count anymore. Gnosticism makes God into a Rumpelstilzkin who throws a fit if you don't get His name right....unfortunately many denoms portray God in this way.

Good works can be performed by anyone...even Samaritans. Only PERFECT works can be done in Christ.

Since this was a reply to something I wrote I assume you are saying that what I write is gnosticism.

Yes, I am saved by a certain knowledge and that knowledge is that Jesus came to save sinners and I am a sinner in the flesh. That knowledge is that Jesus shed His blood on the cross to reconcile sinners to God under a message of grace Jesus gave Paul for me (us).

What is your knowledge?

 

[Episkopos]

Since this was a reply to something I wrote I assume you are saying that what I write is gnosticism.

Yes, I am saved by a certain knowledge and that knowledge is that Jesus came to save sinners and I am a sinner in the flesh. That knowledge is that Jesus shed His blood on the cross to reconcile sinners to God under a message of grace Jesus gave Paul for me (us).

What is your knowledge?

There is no saving knowledge. No gnosis or secret handshake will make your nature like God's.

We must actually know GOD as He is in the Spirit. We must abide in HIS life to have eternal life. We must have the same experience as Paul and other disciples to be able to fellowship with them.

 

[RichardBurger]

Sorry if it seems like anyone is picking on you Richard. I for one am just playfully goading you I as I do my own flesh brothers.

So you are hear to play games. Well you will answer to God for it. Playing with the emotions of others is not of God.

I do not agree with you that it is saying that about anyone other than those who were yet in blindness, however.

I agree with Prentis in post #88

I believe what Prentis said is exactly what the following verses tell us:

Romans 8:11-12 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead ****shall**** also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."

What I see in Romans 8:11-12 is that God will quicken the mortal body of the child of God. I dont see it as the person doing the quickening by their works.

Since it says ****shall**** I read it as a future promised event. And because of this event we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If a person is worried about their sins of the flesh then they are living in the flesh.

 

[Episkopos]

So you are hear to play games. Well you will answer to God for it. Playing with the emotions of others is not of God.



What I see in Romans 8:11-12 is that God will quicken the mortal body of the child of God. I dont see it as the person doing the quickening by their works.

Since it says ****shall**** I read it as a future promised event. And because of this event we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If a person is worried about their sins of the flesh then they are living in the flesh.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[RichardBurger]

Stand still and trust in Jesus' shed blood on the cross and you will see His salvation.

When God's people (the Jews) stood at the Red Sea Moses did not say "go bulid boats." He said the following:

Exodus 14:11-14
11 Then they said to Moses, "Because there were no graves in Egypt, have you taken us away to die in the wilderness? Why have you so dealt with us, to bring us up out of Egypt?
12 Is this not the word that we told you in Egypt, saying, 'Let us alone that we may serve the Egyptians'? For it would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than that we should die in the wilderness."
13 And Moses said to the people,"Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more forever.
14 The Lord will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace."
NKJV

 

[Vengle]

So you are hear to play games. Well you will answer to God for it. Playing with the emotions of others is not of God.

Thank God that my speaking to you kindly was not dependent on your kindness.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Episkopos]

Stand still and trust in Jesus' shed blood on the cross and you will see His salvation.

When God's people (the Jews) stood at the Red Sea Moses did not say "go bulid boats." He said the following:

Exodus 14:11-14
11 Then they said to Moses, "Because there were no graves in Egypt, have you taken us away to die in the wilderness? Why have you so dealt with us, to bring us up out of Egypt?
12 Is this not the word that we told you in Egypt, saying, 'Let us alone that we may serve the Egyptians'? For it would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than that we should die in the wilderness."
13 And Moses said to the people,"Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more forever.
14 The Lord will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace."
NKJV

The bible speaks of a real salvation...today. You are talking of an eternal security based on a belief system.

Your disappointment is reserved for later who do not live IN faith today.

Besides being contented in yourself, what is the fruit (today) of your faith?

Grace gives us actual empowerment to miraculous experience...today.

 

[RichardBurger]

There is no saving knowledge. No gnosis or secret handshake will make your nature like God's.

We must actually know GOD as He is in the Spirit. We must abide in HIS life to have eternal life. We must have the same experience as Paul and other disciples to be able to fellowship with them.

And there is no works that a person can do to make that person righteous before God.

Thank God that my speaking to you kindly was not dependent on your kindness.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Playing a game with the scripture is not of God. Where did you tell me you are just playing a game?

I don't think God wants a person to play games with His words. I really don't think a person who is claiming to be like Christ will play games with His words in the scriptures.

Your game may send a person to Hell.

Your speaking to me with kindness is snake venom. It also shows who you are

 

[Episkopos]

And there is no works that a person can do to make that person righteous before God.

You are creating a false set of choices. The gospel is neither of your polemics. It is the POWER of life in Christ exhibited for the world to see and glorify God. Salvation needs to be seen today by the world. Otherwise we are not salt and light in this world but just more deluded religious fanciers of our own bright futures.

 

[RichardBurger]

The bible speaks of a real salvation...today. You are talking of an eternal security based on a belief system.

Your disappointment is reserved for later who do not live IN faith today.

Besides being contented in yourself, what is the fruit (today) of your faith?

Grace gives us actual empowerment to miraculous experience...today.

Yes, I have (experienced) salvation TODAY. It is not a salvation that I must earn over time by my works. Yes I am content in the work of Jesus on the cross that made me reconciled before God. I can rest in HIS work on the cross.

Your disppointment is reserved for the day you are separated from your flesh and God, because you trusted in your works and not the work of God on the cross. Works are not of grace.

Unlike you, I am totally convinced (persuaded) that my salvation is a gift from God because I believe Him; I believe the message of Grace.

You said "Grace gives us actual empowerment to miraculous experience...today." --- Yes He does, I have miraculous experienced His salvation by faith.

Hebrews 4:1-3 --- The Promise of Rest
1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,'" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

NKJV
Hebrews 4:10
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
NKJV