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"The Antichrist" teaching is a myth

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by truthsearcher, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

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    Keeps it interesting don't you think?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Keeps it interesting don't you think?
    LOL yeah when we cant find enough to argue about today we can pick up on yesterdays [​IMG]At least you can claim you didnt start it:)
     
  3. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

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    Amen to that........innocent I tell you, innocent...so lets argue whos first? Anybody?
     
  4. ncsojourner

    ncsojourner New Member

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    The son of perdition Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down it. (Job 1:6-7) And so it was with Satan to roam the earth, till Christ was led to the wilderness to be tempted by Satan in the book of Matthew chapter 4. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matthew 4:10) This is when Satan left and was bound in heaven till this day, and will remain till his return as Anti-Christ. But, his spirit still roams the earth at the present time. So what are some of the titles of Satan, and what is the fate of his future? We can start back in the Old Testament book of Ezekiel, when the Lord came to him and said: Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God. (Ezekiel 28:2) This prince of Tyrus is a type to describe Satan. The Lord would go on to explain: Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. (Ezekiel 28:6-8) Satan has his sentence already, and his sentence is death. Satan is the only one sentenced to death at this time because of his disobedience to God in the first earth age, when he drew one third of the angels with him causing God to destroy that first dispensation or the first earth age. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (II Peter 3:5-6) Reference: (Three Earth Ages) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12) We all have a chance, even the fallen angels, but Satan is lost, for he is the son of perdition. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (II Thessalonians 2:3-4) There is a great falling away from the church at this time, as people still search for the truth instead of tradition. An soon Satan will appear as anti-Christ for a short time when Michael and his angels boots him out of heaven and down to earth. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast with him. (Revelation 12:7-9) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Revelation 12:12) When Satan and his band of angels arrive in person, their time is short and their wrath will be great to those without the seal of God. That great old serpent the dragon, called Satan the son of perdition deceiver of the world whose spirit roams from city to city and country to country will have his short time again down on earth. Then his total destruction will follow. He was alive but isn't now. And yet, soon he will come up out of the bottomless pit and go to eternal destruction; and the people of earth, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life before the world began, will be dumbfounded at his reappearance after being dead. (Revelation 17:8) This is after Satan has been bound in chains for 1,000 years in the bottomless pit, the millennium period, then he is released for a short time. (Reference: Revelation 20:1-6) When the thousand years end, Satan will be let out of his prison. (Revelation 20:7) He will make war with God's people and will deceive even more, but God will intervene and Satan will not prevail. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10) So what ever name you may know him by: Satan, Lucifer, The Serpent, The Dragon or the Devil. He is all the same and is the Son of Perdition, the only one to perish or sentenced to death at this time. So, do not fear Satan but revere the Lord. Christ would best explain in the book of Matthew: Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)http://www.goodnewsministry.com/topics.htm
    son of perdition JUDAS ISCARIOTJohn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3Gary
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    ridicoulous unless you can prove that Christ didnt die for all mens sins and Judas repented for his sins so if you are right guess that makes God a liar in your bookgreat doctrine you have thereMat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,furthermore sense Christ had to die for our sins I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Judas was predetermined to do this thing by God himself though this is not said in scripture It must have been known to Godso the fact he would condemn Judas to eternal damnation for bring about a predetermined thing is notin the chachter of God I believe thats exactly why we are told he repented and if one repents they are forgiven
     
  6. ncsojourner

    ncsojourner New Member

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    ridicoulous unless you can prove that Christ didnt die for all mens sins and Judas repented for his sins so if you are right guess that makes God a liar in your bookgreat doctrine you have thereMat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,furthermore sense Christ had to die for our sins I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Judas was predetermined to do this thing by God himself though this is not said in scripture It must have been known to Godso the fact he would condemn Judas to eternal damnation for bring about a predetermined thing is notin the chachter of God I believe thats exactly why we are told he repented and if one repents they are forgiven
    I will answer the last one first. Are not the wicked predetermined by God All Mighty? Please tell me if the following people are saved also? Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. If they are not predetermined I don't know what is!What about Pharaoh? Who hardened Pharaoh's heart? Is Pharaoh saved?Exodus 7:13-14 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. 14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go. cf. Gen 7:22;8:15, 19; 9:12; 10:1, 20, 27; 11:10; 14:8;John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. cf. Is 6:9, 10; 29:10, 13; Mt 13:15; Acts 28:27; What about them? Are they saved?Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. cf. Mark 14:21Sure doesn't sound like salvation to me. "I believe thats exactly why we are told he repented and if one repents they are forgiven." True. If one repents after he sins God forgives. Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.Matthew 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.Mind telling me how Judas repented from breaking the sixth commandment?"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." "Identity Crisis," The Jewish Almanac, compiled and edited by Richard Siegel and Carl Rheins (New York, NY: Bantam Books, 0-553-01265-7, 1980) p. 3.Gary
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I dont know what book you read but in mine only one has been condemed to die is Satan. are there tares? that will do wicked, yes, can they repent? YUP right up till their very last breath. thats what my bible says
     
  8. ncsojourner

    ncsojourner New Member

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    I dont know what book you read but in mine only one has been condemed to die Satan are there tares? that will do wicked, yes, can they repent? YUP right up till their very last breath. thats what my bible says
    The fact remains that one can NOT repent of a sin until after said sin has been committed. God does NOT have a proxy system for repentance. Judas broke the sixth commandment by killing himself. One can NOT repent when they are dead. Judas could not and did not repent."This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians - that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible." Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser "Judaism and the Christian Predicament" (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1967) p. 59:Gary
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I never said Judas might not have been guilty of sin I said no where in scripture is anyone condemned to death of their soul but Satan. So what does Judas have to with? this is your assuming facts not in evidenceJohn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.son of perdition is Satan try googling names of Satan you might also look up what perdition means this is not Judas
     
  10. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

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    "This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians - that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible." Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser "Judaism and the Christian Predicament" (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1967) p. 59:
    Got a question for ya, Jesus was what?
     
  11. ncsojourner

    ncsojourner New Member

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    I never said Judas might not have been guilty of sin I said no where in scripture is anyone condemned to death of their soul but Satan. So what does Judas have to with? this is your assuming facts not in evidenceJohn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.son of perdition is Satan try googling names of Satan you might also look up what perdition means this is not Judas
    May be the idea came from this post of yours. ;[url="http://www.christianityboard.com/showthread.php?p=43746#post43746by:]http://www.christianityboard.com/showthrea...46#post43746by:[/url] kriss04-01-2008 05:35 PM --------------CUT-----------Why dont you show me scripture where is says Judas was condemned to eternal damnation Only one has been condemed to that fate and its Satan reguardless of what men tell you God says there is [email protected]@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@Not really interested in what men tell me unless it is from the word of God; it is taken in context, and, proper hermeneutics are being applied.You claim that the "son of perdition" found in John 17:12 is not Judas Iscariot but satan, and you all so claim that, "....no where in scripture is anyone condemned to death of their soul but Satan. One of us is incorrect. Let us see which positions are God's word.In John 17:12 we read, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled".Now, let us go to Acts 1:16-20, 25; and see what God's word has to say concerning, "....that the scripture might be fulfilled". If we can find where the scripture might be fulfilled maybe it will tell us who did the fulfilling, satan or Judas.Acts 1:16-20, 25 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.I wonder what the "....Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas...,"? Let's go back to Psalms and see what the Holy Ghost had to say concerning Judas. Psalms 109:6-19 says, Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office. 9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. 10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places. 11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour. 12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children. 13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out. 14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. 15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth. 16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart. 17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him. 18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones. 19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.Not only is Judas the son of perdition in John 17:12 he was also condemned to eternal damnation by the Holy Ghost. Here are a couple more verses that all so disprove your claim that no one other than satan is condemned to death of their soul.Deuteronomy 23:2-3 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. 3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: See Ne 13:1-3;Are those, spoken of in Deut 23:2-3 condemned to eternal damnation? What about the Edomites in Malachi 1:2-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. If you have any doubts about the Edomites NOT being condemned to eternaldamnation read all 21 vs of Obadiah and pay close attention to vs 18. If that isn't condemnation to eternal damnation I don't know what is!"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." "Identity Crisis," The Jewish Almanac, compiled and edited by Richard Siegel and Carl Rheins (New York, NY: Bantam Books, 0-553-01265-7, 1980) p. 3.Gary
     
  12. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    Most all of the top theologins agree that Judas inJohn 17:12 agree that Judas was called the son of peridition.
     
  13. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

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    "Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." "Identity Crisis," The Jewish Almanac, compiled and edited by Richard Siegel and Carl Rheins (New York, NY: Bantam Books, 0-553-01265-7, 1980) p. 3.
    :israel:I know where you would get 10 to 1 on that........
     
  14. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Most all of the top theologins agree that Judas inJohn 17:12 agree that Judas was called the son of peridition.
    crooner, I love you brother, but don't give me that. It's the proverbial "if all of the top theologians were jumping off the bridge, would you do it too?" scenario. Who are we following - the Word or men?None of the quoted verses confirm Judas as the son of perdition, or destruction.John 17:12
    While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
    Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14, there is clearly only one established as going to destruction. Otherwise, we have a serious contradiction here. The Word doesn't contradict.Are you aware at all of the Great White throne judgment, or do we just cast that out because it doesn't quite fit? Who is the one man already judged? It ain't Judas to use a little southern emphasis on that one.
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    The AntiChrist is coming back sooner than later. [​IMG]
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The state of Pertion is utter destruction for the ungodly Judas may have been alot of things in the opinion of some but he was not ungodly he was an apostel he repented, he was greatly grieved. Judas never knew they were going to kill Christ, they just wanted to question him because the Saducees and Pharasee's didnt like his teaching. Do you not see this was Gods plan now according to your way of thinking God is going to give this apostel the same sentence as Satan and his followers his repenting did no good even though he was a believer. Where does God teach this????In fact lets see what happened to Judas Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. We see here it was the son of Perdition Satan that entered into Judas so who betrayed Christ here Judas or Satan??
     
  17. Follower

    Follower Member

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    Judas may have been alot of things in the opinion of some but he was not ungodly he was an apostel he repented, he was greatly grieved.
    Judas committed one of the most wicked acts in all of history. If he were really repentant, he would have done everything he could to undo what he had done. But, instead he killed himself.
    Judas never knew they were going to kill Christ, they just wanted to question him because the Saducees and Pharasee's didnt like his teaching.
    No, no, no, Judas knew the Jews were trying to kill Jesus.
    Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. We see here it was the son of Perdition Satan that entered into Judas so who betrayed Christ here Judas or Satan??
    Jesus accused Judas of betrayal at the Last Supper. To be trite, that settles it.Judas was replaced. There's no biblical record of anyone else being replaced after death.John 17:12 obviously means Judas.
     
  18. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Judas committed one of the most wicked acts in all of history. If he were really repentant, he would have done everything he could to undo what he had done. But, instead he killed himself.No, no, no, Judas knew the Jews were trying to kill Jesus.Jesus accused Judas of betrayal at the Last Supper. To be trite, that settles it.Judas was replaced. There's no biblical record of anyone else being replaced after death.John 17:12 obviously means Judas.
    How do you figure he was found not guilty of anything by the Roman court it was the priests/ people who decided he was guilty When they were offered the murder or Christ be set free they chose JesusHow in the World could Judas have known that? How could anyone but God know what an unruly crowd would do ...you are speculating a fact not in evidenceHe did try to undo it but they would not listen it was his grief that overwhelmed him. And what part of Satan entered him are you not understanding ?? And where does it teach repentance does not count. Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, We have heard men's ideas and exaggerations of this story so long we do not even read without a preconceived notion.This was Gods plans being carried out..........Jesus had to die to save you and I .........God put this on evil deed.. on Satans head as Satans own evil plot ensured his own demise ... Judas was nothing but a tool to accomplish what had to occur..
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    ...Judas may have been alot of things in the opinion of some but he was not ungodly he was an apostel he repented, he was greatly grieved....
    Judas committed one of the most wicked acts in all of history. If he were really repentant, he would have done everything he could to undo what he had done. But, instead he killed himself.So you are making God a liar, and that is ONE thing I truly hate. You deny John 3:16, John 4:42, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10 Another thing, what is it about Judas not repenting? Oh Yea, he did repent. (Matthew 27:3) One more thing, what is it that is Judas did after he repented. ALL sins are forgivable. (Matthew 12:31, Luke 12:10)
     
  20. Follower

    Follower Member

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    Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
    FYI, the KJV phrase "repented himself" does not mean repented, it means remorse. He didn't repent to God.
     
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