The Battle of Armageddon

[ewq1938]

Revelation chapter 20 and psalm chapter 37 to document, the wicked follow satan into lake of fire at end of millennium.

Revelation chapter 16 . Armageddon happens at the end of the 6th trump. Jesus returns 7th trump.

Armageddon happens after the 7th trump, starting with the beast's army arriving at Armageddon in the 6th vial. Armageddon does not happen in the 6th trump.

 

[strepho]

End of the 6th trump leading into 7th trump is armeggeden.
Jesus arrives 7th trump to establish His kingdom.

Satan as antichrist will gather them at armeggeden. Jesus will establish his kingdom at the 7th trump.

I didn't clarify earlier.

 

[Jay Ross]

Wrong. There are 7 mountains/hills of the beast. They are represented as heads not horns. There are also ten horns the entire time, not at any point are there only 7.



No, it isn't. Yours is. You confuse hills and horns in the above quote which is the most simplistic error possible.

It would appear to me that you have ring fenced the OT and the NT such that you see no similarities between the two testaments and as such you have come to the wrong conclusions.

The ten horns are also described as ten kings. Or perhaps you have not seen this.

I can only suggest to you that you have comes to the wrong conclusions and any defence on your part of those conclusion will not change the context of the Scriptures on this subject matter.

Shalom

 

[strepho]

Armageddon happens after the 7th trump, starting with the beast's army arriving at Armageddon in the 6th vial. Armageddon does not happen in the 6th trump.

I made my reply above. Satan as antichrist gathers armys to armeggeden at end of 6th trump.
Jesus will establish his kingdom at the 7th trump.
I'm not going to debate or argue over this.
I moved on.

 

[ewq1938]

End of the 6th trump leading into 7th trump is armeggeden.
Jesus arrives 7th trump to establish His kingdom.

Satan as antichrist will gather them at armeggeden. Jesus will establish his kingdom at the 7th trump.

I didn't clarify earlier.

Armageddon happens after the 7th trump not before it.

 

[ewq1938]

It would appear to me that you have ring fenced the OT and the NT such that you see no similarities between the two testaments and as such you have come to the wrong conclusions.

The ten horns are also described as ten kings. Or perhaps you have not seen this.

Everyone knows that. I have corrected you several times. You haven't corrected me on anything. I just want to set the record straight on that.

 

[ewq1938]

I made my reply above. Satan as antichrist gathers armys to armeggeden at end of 6th trump.

No, that happens during the 6th vial. The 6th trumps ends with the two prophets dead, then resurrecting and shortly after the 7th trump sounds. Armageddon does not happen anywhere during the 6th trump.

 

[Jay Ross]

Everyone knows that. I have corrected you several times. You haven't corrected me on anything. I just want to set the record straight on that.

No not everybody knows as you claim. Sadly, I cannot find a big enough sledgehammer with a long enough handle to be able to swing it from where I live to dong you on your head to get through your thick skull that you are in error.

I am happy to be proved wrong, but your apologies have not been able to do so, thus far.

Good day now.

 

[Hobie]

This is pretty much how I understand things. The 7th plague is the last plague as told in Rev 15:1. I would like to emphasize the gathering of the nations in verse 16 above, the voices thunders and lightnings with an earthquake in verse 18, the hail in verse 21, and the fact that these things are specifically the wrath of God; as these things/this last plague is repeated 6 times in chapters 6-19 of the Revelation.

1) Rev 6:14b-17
14...every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Earthquake)
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; (Gathering)
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Wrath)

2) Rev 8:5 "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake." (voices, thunderings, lightnings, earthquake)

3) Rev 11:18-19
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Wrath, Gathering)
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (lightnings, voices, thunderings, earthquake, hail)

4) Rev 14:19-20
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Wrath)
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. (Gathering)

5) These are the Rev 16 verses above

6) Rev 19:15-19
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Wrath)
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. (Gathering)

I assume the falling mountains and the hail are the winepress used on the gathering.

See WTEW Bible Studies on YouTube for the full details. There is a chart that can be downloaded.

Very good, will look it up. Now notice how it refers to a gathering of two differing classes of people as well as spirits of evil against good.
There is a gathering and we see it is demon spirits which work miracles before the leaders of the earth and before the whole world and gather them for the battle against God.

Revelation 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

We see in the Bible what is a final separation of the righteous saints from the wicked, a gathering of the righteous for salvation and deliverance by Christ and His angels, and the gathering of the rebellious wicked to be slain when they fight at this battle. We see more description in Revelation 17 and 19.

Revelation 17:14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

We see a similar theme in Zephaniah when God's people are assembled in the day of the Lord.

Zephaniah 2:3
1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you.
3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

This battle of the day of the Lord is a development of Gods wrath on the rebellious wicked is presented under what is the symbolic name of Armageddon. The meaning of the word, as evident in the description of the battle itself, is not conclusive, except that all derivations of the word point to the general meaning of gathering or assembling. Let take a look..

Megiddo. This may be a possible reference to the ancient city of Megiddo with a Canaanite fortress at the foot of the Carmel range and was famous as a battlefield down through the centuries, and thus could be a place for "gathering" or "assembling" of armies for attack.

Mount of Megiddo. Here megiddo is assigned the meaning of "the place of God". Thus har (mountain) and megiddo ("place of God") would signify "mountain of the place of God," which makes it basically "the mount of the congregation," where God dwells in heaven.

We see it used in reference to where Lucifer, the devil, seeks to ascend or wants to gain, in Isaiah..

Isaiah 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

So we have evil spirits whose leader we know is Satan, assembling of the kings of the earth and the wicked, and as we see it is not necessarily a physical gathering of the armies of the world into one spot on earth, but a battle which involves them against the saints, and the Lord, the King of Kings, Jesus at the Second Coming.

Here is a good study to check out... Israel and Armageddon: Facts vs. Fiction - White Horse Media

 

[6 Stories]

Very good, will look it up. Now notice how it refers to a gathering of two differing classes of people as well as spirits of evil against good.
There is a gathering and we see it is demon spirits which work miracles before the leaders of the earth and before the whole world and gather them for the battle against God.

I'm a little confused. Are you referring to the Godly and ungodly as the 2 classes of people? The book of Daniel is very clear about the spiritual forces acted being the scenes in the battles of mankind.

Revelation 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The evil spirits gather the ungodly to a specific place because the evil spirits can't be everywhere. The gathering of the ungodly is specific to Israel.

Matt 13:30 30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

The bundles of tares are the ungodly armies that will form in Israel to fight against God. The wheat will be throughout the world until gathered to be with Jesus.

We see in the Bible what is a final separation of the righteous saints from the wicked, a gathering of the righteous for salvation and deliverance by Christ and His angels, and the gathering of the rebellious wicked to be slain when they fight at this battle. We see more description in Revelation 17 and 19.

Revelation 17:14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

In these passages, the righteous have already been gathered with Jesus at the time the unrighteous are slain.

We see a similar theme in Zephaniah when God's people are assembled in the day of the Lord.

Zephaniah 2:3
1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you.
3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

In verse 1, the nation of Israel is told to gather together. They will gather in Jerusalem.
Verse 3 applies to the rest of the world.

In Rev 11:2, Jerusalem will be in the hands of Gentiles for a final 42 months. At the end of those 42 months, in Rev 11:7-12, the world will see the death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven of the 2 witnesses. In Rev 11:13 7,000 are killed, which must consist of the ruling Gentiles whose time has ended. This is the time of Zech 12:6 "In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem."

This battle of the day of the Lord is a development of Gods wrath on the rebellious wicked is presented under what is the symbolic name of Armageddon. The meaning of the word, as evident in the description of the battle itself, is not conclusive, except that all derivations of the word point to the general meaning of gathering or assembling. Let take a look..

Megiddo. This may be a possible reference to the ancient city of Megiddo with a Canaanite fortress at the foot of the Carmel range and was famous as a battlefield down through the centuries, and thus could be a place for "gathering" or "assembling" of armies for attack.

Mount of Megiddo. Here megiddo is assigned the meaning of "the place of God". Thus har (mountain) and megiddo ("place of God") would signify "mountain of the place of God," which makes it basically "the mount of the congregation," where God dwells in heaven.

We see it used in reference to where Lucifer, the devil, seeks to ascend or wants to gain, in Isaiah..

Isaiah 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

So we have evil spirits whose leader we know is Satan, assembling of the kings of the earth and the wicked, and as we see it is not necessarily a physical gathering of the armies of the world into one spot on earth, but a battle which involves them against the saints, and the Lord, the King of Kings, Jesus at the Second Coming.

Just as the predictions of Jesus' first coming were literal, so will be the predictions of his return. The saints will have already been gathered from all over the earth to be with the Lord in the clouds, when the Lord fights the armies who have gathered in Israel. The final assembly is as follows:

The antichrist will lead in 200 million cavalry from the Euphrates River in the 6th trumpet. This army will defeat Israel and Egypt.

Dan 11:40-45
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Antichrist was going to go further into Africa, but tidings from the north and east change his plans. The north and east is a reference to the Gog/Magog peoples of Ez 38-39. Rosh, Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, and Togarmah from the north and Persia to the east. The countries which were about to be attacked by antichrist in Daniel, Ethiopia and Libya, also join forces with these kings.

However, instead of fighting each other, they team up to fight against God. These armies are described as bird food in Ezekiel and the Revelation. 1600 furlongs or 180 miles of dead bodies stacked to the horses bridles. 7 months to bury all of the dead. All in Israel!

Too many details to spiritualize Armageddon in my opinion.

Here is a good study to check out... Israel and Armageddon: Facts vs. Fiction - White Horse Media

Thanks, I will.

 

[Davy]

The Bible puts the Battle of Armageddon before the New Jerusalem comes down as Revelation is clear that is when the wicked meet their end in the Lake of Fire. So this can only be at the Second Coming, and you can see it is when the Seven Last Plagues fall from the description in Revelation, and they will come one after another which I think corresponds to the one hour (2 weeks prophetic time) the nations get with the Beast.

....

The battle of Armageddon that happens on the 7th Vial when Jesus comes has nothing to do with God's Great White Throne Judgment into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

 

[Davy]

Here is a good description..
"Armageddon Meaning
The actual word for “Armageddon” only appears once in the Bible (Revelation 16:16). Even though most of the New Testament is written in Greek, this comes from the Hebrew word which means, “Mount Megiddo", which may be the same with Har-megiddo; for the Hebrew word (rh) is read "Ar" by the Greeks; so the city Argarize is interpreted the mountain of the most High.

What Is the Battle of Armageddon?​

Revelation 16:16 - ""Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon." - describes what happens after God pours out the sixth bowl of wrath (one of the many plagues that permeates the Revelation narrative).

In this verse, John, the author of Revelation, writes about the gathering of earthly rulers and armies to a place called Armageddon. The word "Armageddon" is derived from the Hebrew "Har-Megiddo," and it is generally understood to be a symbolic location for a final, climactic battle.

The Battle of Armageddon is described in more detail in Revelation 19:11-21 (NIV), where it portrays a dramatic confrontation between the forces of good, led by Jesus Christ (the rider on a white horse), and the forces of evil, symbolically represented by the beast and the false prophet. The antichrist gathers “kings” in a placed called Armageddon. These kings, loyal to the antichrist, will gather their armies to wage war against the people of God. This battle results in the defeat of the enemies of God and the ultimate triumph of righteousness.

We see hints of this war in Revelation 16:14 and in Revelation 20:7-9, where Satan gathers enemies from the four corners of the earth (in essence, everywhere). They’ll surround the camp of the Christians, but fire from heaven will consume them."

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/e...attle-of-armageddon-meaning-significance.html

The word for "Armageddon" in Revelation 16:16 comes from Hebrew Megiddo, a place in the holy land where several battles were fought back in Bible history. The idea of the word actually has to do with the gathering and surrounding of the northern armies against Jerusalem on the last day of this present world.

There's several Bible references to that future event on the last day of this world when God will pour out His cup of wrath consuming fire upon them, thus also ending this present world...

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
KJV

Ezek 38:14-16
14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when My people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
16 And thou shalt come up against My people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against My land, that the heathen may know Me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
KJV

Joel 3:1-2
3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted My land.
KJV

Joel 3:9-14
9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
KJV

 

[Hobie]

The battle of Armageddon that happens on the 7th Vial when Jesus comes has nothing to do with God's Great White Throne Judgment into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

Well it does happen then at the Second Coming, but it has its final end when the wicked are brought up in the resurrection of damnation after the 1000 years as you see in Revelation 20.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

So Satan again deceives them basically taking up right from the battle at the Second Coming and convinces them to continue with the war against God by attacking the New Jerusalem. (If you were in a middle of a battle and got slain then brought back to life even if after 1000 years,, it would seem as you were just knocked out and you wake up and you have your leader/Satan still there, you just continue the battle)

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This is the lake of fire or second death where the wicked, and Satan and his angels meet there end.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Hobie]

This is pretty much how I understand things. The 7th plague is the last plague as told in Rev 15:1. I would like to emphasize the gathering of the nations in verse 16 above, the voices thunders and lightnings with an earthquake in verse 18, the hail in verse 21, and the fact that these things are specifically the wrath of God; as these things/this last plague is repeated 6 times in chapters 6-19 of the Revelation.

1) Rev 6:14b-17
14...every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Earthquake)
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; (Gathering)
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Wrath)

2) Rev 8:5 "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake." (voices, thunderings, lightnings, earthquake)

3) Rev 11:18-19
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Wrath, Gathering)
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (lightnings, voices, thunderings, earthquake, hail)

4) Rev 14:19-20
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Wrath)
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. (Gathering)

5) These are the Rev 16 verses above

6) Rev 19:15-19
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Wrath)
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. (Gathering)

I assume the falling mountains and the hail are the winepress used on the gathering.

See WTEW Bible Studies on YouTube for the full details. There is a chart that can be downloaded.

I think this is what you were talking about ...

 

[PinSeeker]

The battle is between God and the nations of the earth, so it has nothing to do with the first or second or 1948 or 9/11, as it is at the Second Coming that we see this great battle. Satan attempts to unite all nations at war against God so it will be everything they have against Him but they will fail...

Agree, to this point. The battle is spiritual ~ which many seem to think lessens its magnitude, but the reality is quite the opposite. And it is now, although it will be very much ramped up near the end... after Israel is complete ~ the fullness of the Gentiles brought in and the partial hardening on Israel now removed... and when Satan is "loosed for a little while."

...Christ will then take His saints to heaven and leave the wicked slain. Its that simple..

Christ will have returned, and, all in very short order, so much so as to be considered one big event, the second (general this time) resurrection will happen, and "all who are in the tombs will hear (Christ Jesus's) voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29), the final Judgment (Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 25:31-46; Revelation 20:11-15) will take place ~ executed by Christ, of course ~ the wicked will depart obediently into eternal judgment/punishment (which is the second ~ final, permanent ~ death), and the new heaven and new earth will finally be a consummated reality. "Every tear shall be wiped from our eyes" (Isaiah 25:8, Revelation 21:4), and "the ransomed of the LORD will return and come to Zion with singing; everlasting joy shall be upon (our) heads; (we) shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away" (Isaiah 35:10).

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Davy]

Well it does happen then at the Second Coming, but it has its final end when the wicked are brought up in the resurrection of damnation after the 1000 years as you see in Revelation 20.

Still, the battle of Armageddon has nothing to do with the destruction of the wicked after the Rev.20 "thousand years". So even a small pointer to it, like your are 'trying'... to do, does not work. God's consuming fire will end this present world on the day of Christ's return, on the "day of the Lord" as per Peter in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

The Gog-Magog destruction by God's fire at the end of the Rev.20 "thousand years" is a destruction upon Satan's host army that he leads upon earth against the Millennial "camp of the saints", which is ON earth, and represents Christ's elect as that camp. We know this Gog-Magog destruction is also separate from the Ezekiel 38-39 Gog-Magog destruction because Jerusalem at the end of this 'present' world on the day of Jesus' coming is when the Ezekiel 38 one will happen, with the nation alignment given going up against the orthodox UNBELIEVING JEWS at Jerusalem, on the last day of this world. So just by noticing, as written, just who Satan leads his host armies against, determines the time for each.

 

[Hobie]

I'm a little confused. Are you referring to the Godly and ungodly as the 2 classes of people? The book of Daniel is very clear about the spiritual forces acted being the scenes in the battles of mankind.

The evil spirits gather the ungodly to a specific place because the evil spirits can't be everywhere. The gathering of the ungodly is specific to Israel.

Matt 13:30 30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

The bundles of tares are the ungodly armies that will form in Israel to fight against God. The wheat will be throughout the world until gathered to be with Jesus.

In these passages, the righteous have already been gathered with Jesus at the time the unrighteous are slain.

In verse 1, the nation of Israel is told to gather together. They will gather in Jerusalem.
Verse 3 applies to the rest of the world.

In Rev 11:2, Jerusalem will be in the hands of Gentiles for a final 42 months. At the end of those 42 months, in Rev 11:7-12, the world will see the death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven of the 2 witnesses. In Rev 11:13 7,000 are killed, which must consist of the ruling Gentiles whose time has ended. This is the time of Zech 12:6 "In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem."

Just as the predictions of Jesus' first coming were literal, so will be the predictions of his return. The saints will have already been gathered from all over the earth to be with the Lord in the clouds, when the Lord fights the armies who have gathered in Israel. The final assembly is as follows:

The antichrist will lead in 200 million cavalry from the Euphrates River in the 6th trumpet. This army will defeat Israel and Egypt.

Dan 11:40-45
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Antichrist was going to go further into Africa, but tidings from the north and east change his plans. The north and east is a reference to the Gog/Magog peoples of Ez 38-39. Rosh, Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, and Togarmah from the north and Persia to the east. The countries which were about to be attacked by antichrist in Daniel, Ethiopia and Libya, also join forces with these kings.

However, instead of fighting each other, they team up to fight against God. These armies are described as bird food in Ezekiel and the Revelation. 1600 furlongs or 180 miles of dead bodies stacked to the horses bridles. 7 months to bury all of the dead. All in Israel!

Too many details to spiritualize Armageddon in my opinion.


Thanks, I will.

Satan with his angels will get the wicked and fight against Christ at the Second Coming where he resurrects the saints in the first resurrection, and Christ will prevail and with the saints in hand will take them to heaven where they will live and reign with Christ for the 1000 years.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

After the 1000 years going over the judgement they will come back in the New Jerusalem and thats where you see the second resurrection or the "resurrection of damnation" where the wicked come up and Satan will again try to deceive them and attack the city, but get destroyed.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

We see the two resurrections that Christ refers to and in other text..

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Hobie]

Here is a great explanation on this...
"..in Revelation 16:16. The Word says, "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." For a fact, there is no literal "place" anywhere on earth bearing this exact name. It's true, there is a valley north of Jerusalem which was called "Megiddo" (Judges 5:19) in Bible days. It was a place where the armies of Israel met foreign enemies in bloody battles. Because "Megiddo" sounds like "Armageddon," millions assume this same place will be the location of a final showdown against the Jews. But is this correct?

"Armageddon" represents the apex, the climax, the final battle in Revelation. Will it be a military battle in the Middle East?

Let's be consistent. Throughout Revelation, as shown above, we've seen Middle Eastern terms used in a Christ-centered, heavenly, spiritual sense. When it comes to "Armageddon," which is a term depicting the grand finale in the greatest apocalyptic book ever written, does it make sense for God's last book suddenly to shift gears away from its thematic focus by pinpointing a literal, local, high-tech, Middle East-based conflagration involving Russians, Chinese, Syrians, and literal Jews?

We don't have to guess. The answer is in the context surrounding Revelation 16:16. While it is outside the scope of this article to discuss the details, here are the main points:

1. The battle involves "the kings of the earth and of the whole world" (verse 14), which could not possibly fit inside the valley of Megiddo.

2. Revelation's focus is "the temple of heaven" (verse 17), not a supposedly soon-to-be-rebuilt Jewish Temple on earth.

3. The effects of Armageddon are global, far beyond the Middle East (verses 18-20).

4. The primary system identified as being destroyed at Armageddon is spiritual "Babylon" (verse 19), not Russia, China, or Syria.

In essence, "Armageddon" depicts the final battle between King Jesus and His heavenly armies (Rev. 19:11-19) against the worldwide forces of Satan and Mystery, Babylon. At the Second Coming the devil loses, and his global kingdom comes crashing down. Jesus doesn't need to nuke His foes, but only to use His "sharp two-edged sword" (Rev. 1:16; see also Rev. 19:15), which represents His Word of truth (Eph. 6:17). When Christ descends from the east He will deliver "Israel" from the clutches of "Babylon." But which Israel will He deliver? According to the thematic genius of the entire book of Revelation, it must be "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16) centered in Jesus Christ whose home is the new Jerusalem (Rev. 21:10).

The Middle East remains a powder keg. The U.S. struggle against Muslim radicals continues. And there's no earthly solution on the horizon. In the midst of such a high-tension environment, millions of America's conservative, politically active Christians believe God Himself is not only behind modern Israel, but that He will finally annihilate the enemies of the Jewish state at Armageddon, an idea forcefully proclaimed in the book Armageddon. Yet this doctrine is contrary to the New Testament.

Beyond this, I think the teaching actually is harmful, because it adds extra fuel to an already raging Arab fire. An America at war against terror doesn't need this!

A careful study of "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" shows that conservative Christianity's massive God-is-behind-modern-Israel theology is not true. Revelation's focus is not on "Israel after the flesh" (Israel One), but on "the Israel of God" (Israel Two) composed of both Jews and non-Jews (including Arabs), who are centered in Jesus Christ...."

 

[6 Stories]

Satan with his angels will get the wicked and fight against Christ at the Second Coming where he resurrects the saints in the first resurrection, and Christ will prevail and with the saints in hand will take them to heaven where they will live and reign with Christ for the 1000 years.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

After the 1000 years going over the judgement they will come back in the New Jerusalem and thats where you see the second resurrection or the "resurrection of damnation" where the wicked come up and Satan will again try to deceive them and attack the city, but get destroyed.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

We see the two resurrections that Christ refers to and in other text..

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Rev 20:6 " Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

I am with you on everything except the location of Jesus and his resurrected saints during the 1000 years. Jesus seems to deliver the earthly kingdom up to the Father only after there is no more death on earth, after the 1000 years.

1 Cor 15:
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Do you interpret 1 Cor 15:24 differently?

 

[6 Stories]

Here is a great explanation on this...
"..in Revelation 16:16. The Word says, "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." For a fact, there is no literal "place" anywhere on earth bearing this exact name. It's true, there is a valley north of Jerusalem which was called "Megiddo" (Judges 5:19) in Bible days. It was a place where the armies of Israel met foreign enemies in bloody battles. Because "Megiddo" sounds like "Armageddon," millions assume this same place will be the location of a final showdown against the Jews. But is this correct?

"Armageddon" represents the apex, the climax, the final battle in Revelation. Will it be a military battle in the Middle East?

Let's be consistent. Throughout Revelation, as shown above, we've seen Middle Eastern terms used in a Christ-centered, heavenly, spiritual sense. When it comes to "Armageddon," which is a term depicting the grand finale in the greatest apocalyptic book ever written, does it make sense for God's last book suddenly to shift gears away from its thematic focus by pinpointing a literal, local, high-tech, Middle East-based conflagration involving Russians, Chinese, Syrians, and literal Jews?

We don't have to guess. The answer is in the context surrounding Revelation 16:16. While it is outside the scope of this article to discuss the details, here are the main points:

1. The battle involves "the kings of the earth and of the whole world" (verse 14), which could not possibly fit inside the valley of Megiddo.

2. Revelation's focus is "the temple of heaven" (verse 17), not a supposedly soon-to-be-rebuilt Jewish Temple on earth.

3. The effects of Armageddon are global, far beyond the Middle East (verses 18-20).

4. The primary system identified as being destroyed at Armageddon is spiritual "Babylon" (verse 19), not Russia, China, or Syria.

In essence, "Armageddon" depicts the final battle between King Jesus and His heavenly armies (Rev. 19:11-19) against the worldwide forces of Satan and Mystery, Babylon. At the Second Coming the devil loses, and his global kingdom comes crashing down. Jesus doesn't need to nuke His foes, but only to use His "sharp two-edged sword" (Rev. 1:16; see also Rev. 19:15), which represents His Word of truth (Eph. 6:17). When Christ descends from the east He will deliver "Israel" from the clutches of "Babylon." But which Israel will He deliver? According to the thematic genius of the entire book of Revelation, it must be "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16) centered in Jesus Christ whose home is the new Jerusalem (Rev. 21:10).

The Middle East remains a powder keg. The U.S. struggle against Muslim radicals continues. And there's no earthly solution on the horizon. In the midst of such a high-tension environment, millions of America's conservative, politically active Christians believe God Himself is not only behind modern Israel, but that He will finally annihilate the enemies of the Jewish state at Armageddon, an idea forcefully proclaimed in the book Armageddon. Yet this doctrine is contrary to the New Testament.

Beyond this, I think the teaching actually is harmful, because it adds extra fuel to an already raging Arab fire. An America at war against terror doesn't need this!

A careful study of "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" shows that conservative Christianity's massive God-is-behind-modern-Israel theology is not true. Revelation's focus is not on "Israel after the flesh" (Israel One), but on "the Israel of God" (Israel Two) composed of both Jews and non-Jews (including Arabs), who are centered in Jesus Christ...."

Although there is a spiritual component to everything, there is also a matching physical component.

Israel rejected God - spiritual. As a result, God punished Israel physically for 70 years in Babylon.

Israel still largely rejected God and their 70-year punishment was multiplied according to the law by 7 or 490 years as stated in Daniel 9. In the future, Israel will fall again under the Power of the 'Prince of Rome - Spiritual' for 7 years. The first 3.5 of the 7 years will be through a 10-nation peace treaty with HQ in Rome - physical. Rome will be spiritual Babylon for 3.5 years. Then the 'Prince of Greece - Spiritual' will take over this Roman Empire for the last 3.5 years of Israel's punishment, the great tribulation. There will be a physical leader in Rome for 3.5 years. There will be a physical leader from the area of Seleucia/Syria/antichrist who will take over the Roman Empire and move the world capital from Rome to some other city. Spiritually, this new city, this new world capital, will still be Babylon.

These spiritual powers will guide physical armies to Israel as I set forth earlier.