The Battle of Armageddon

[ewq1938]

God is already dwelling on this planet earth, by dwelling within the mortal earthen vessels of His born again Saints.

God the Father dwells in heaven but will leave heaven and dwell with man on Earth which is not happening yet.

 

[Earburner]

You make no sense. "will enter into eternity" does not match "no eternal existence". This is because these beliefs do not come from the bible, so they are confused and contradict all the time.

It's as plain as day. Every unsaved person who dies, stays dead for eternity, because they have no eternal existence of life within them of any kind.

 

[Earburner]

God the Father dwells in heaven but will leave heaven and dwell with man on Earth which is not happening yet.

God the Father dwells in Heaven, He dwells in Jesus, and now through Jesus (Rev. 3:20), He dwells within all born again Christians.
Are you saying that God the Father is not within you?
See John 14:17, 23.

 

[ewq1938]

God the Father dwells in Heaven, He dwells in Jesus, and now through Jesus, He dwells within all born again Christians.
Are you saying that God the Father is not within you?

God is in believers in a spiritual way only. God the Father and Jesus are in heaven in a literal sense. Are you saying that God the Father is not within you? (if you like to ask dumb questions then I will also)

 

[ewq1938]

It's as plain as day. Every unsaved person who dies, stays dead for eternity, because they have no eternal existence of life within them of any kind.

That is not "entering into eternity". Not one unsaved person "enters into eternity".

 

[Earburner]

That is not "entering into eternity". Not one unsaved person "enters into eternity".

Probably a wrong choice of words for your understanding, however I did clarify in post 103. Edit: 102

 

[Earburner]

God is in believers in a spiritual way only. God the Father and Jesus are in heaven in a literal sense. Are you saying that God the Father is not within you? (if you like to ask dumb questions then I will also)

Of course!! God the Father is a Spirit, and always will be a Spirit. That is why He manifested Himself through Jesus, His only begotten Son. Therefore, to see/perceive Jesus, is to see/perceive the Father. He is the express image of the Person of God the Father. Heb. 1:3

The ONLY way that God the Father CAN DWELL within us, is THROUGH Jesus!!!
That is WHY Jesus is the firstborn FROM the dead. God the Father, by Himself, cannot live/dwell within us without Jesus.
See Heb. 10:20; Rev. 3:20.

 

[Earburner]

That is not "entering into eternity". Not one unsaved person "enters into eternity".

Call it what you like, the fact is the unsaved dead shall remain dead for all eternity. They are not remembered by God, because "He never knew them". Mat. 7:22-23; Rom. 8:9.

 

[ewq1938]

Probably a wrong choice of words for your understanding

No, it was the wrong choice of words because it is wrong.

 

[ewq1938]

Of course!! God the Father is a Spirit, and always will be a Spirit.

He is not a spirit. You are confusing God the Father with God the Holy Spirit. Moses saw God the Father's form and hand etc and he wasn't the only one. Have you forgotten about the whole seeing his face and dying thing? Spirits don't have faces or hands.

 

[Hobie]

Earth where people will also live.

1Ch_23:25 For David said, The LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever:

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Psa_37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psa_37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psa_37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Mat_5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Job_19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

This is after the 1000 years when the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven...

 

[Hobie]

He is just one of the many ACs but there is coming a final one who will not be like the previous.

The Pope has not stopped..."On October 4, Pope Francis attended an act of idolatrous worship of the pagan goddess Pachamama. He allowed this worship to take place in the Vatican Gardens, thus desecrating the vicinity of the graves of the martyrs and of the church of the Apostle Peter. He participated in this act of idolatrous worship by blessing a wooden image of Pachamama. On October 7, the idol of Pachamama was placed in front of the main altar at St. Peter’s and then carried in procession to the Synod Hall. Pope Francis said prayers in a ceremony involving this image and then joined in this procession."...https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/francisclooney/blog/pope-amazon-and-pachamama

 

[Hobie]

Earth where people will also live.

1Ch_23:25 For David said, The LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever:

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Psa_37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psa_37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psa_37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Mat_5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Job_19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

You missed the part that gives it context...
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The saints are taken to heaven and then after the 1000 years come down in the New Jerusalem with Christ..

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[ewq1938]

You missed the part that gives it context...
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The saints are taken to heaven and then after the 1000 years come down in the New Jerusalem with Christ..

No, the saints live on Earth for the 1000 years. They left heaven with Christ at the second coming.

The thousand years is the rule with a rod of iron over the nations. It is not the length of a kingdom. The kingdom is eternal. Physically it is only in heaven at this time. It is here spiritually inside of believers now. It will be a physical reality after the second coming is completed.

Christ will exercise his Kingly authority on Earth when the 7th trump sounds:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The rod of iron reign only begins after Christ has come:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

The saint's reign will be on the Earth not from heaven:

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the EARTH.

Second coming:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The verb RULE here is in the future tense so it happens after the events of Armageddon are completed.

After the second coming:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


All these prove a literal kingdom with Christ and his saints physically here on the Earth literally ruling over human beings of various nations.

 

[Hobie]

Armageddon is not found in Rev 20. Armageddon happens at the second coming and is a place where the armies of the beast meet the army of Christ from heaven. The armies are led by satan, the beast and false prophet. The beast's army is slain by Christ with a symbolic sword. This is before the thousand years.

In Rev 20 satan (not the beast or the beast's army) goes and raises a fresh army and takes them not to Armageddon (a valley 66 miles from Jerusalem) but takes them to Jerusalem and they do not meet Christ or his army or any army at all. This army is led by satan alone because the beast and false prophet were cast into the LOF long ago at the battle of Armageddon. They are killed by God the Father who rains fire down upon them. This happens after the thousand years.

True, but then after the thousand years he tries to continue the fight when the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven as the wicked again join him as they are brought up in the second resurrection. But its the one that leads to damnation as they meet their end at the Lake of Fire..

 

[ewq1938]

True, but then after the thousand years he tries to continue the fight when the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven

No, he doesn't. Satan is in the LOF when NJ descends from heaven. The army surrounding Jerusalem in Rev 20 is old Jerusalem. NJ doesn't come until the NHNE which is after all have been cast into the LOF.

as the wicked again join him as they are brought up in the second resurrection. B

That rebellion/army is before the second resurrection. Those people have to die the first death before they are resurrected to face the judgment of the second death which doesn't happen until after God rains fire down to kill that entire army. After that is the second resurrection which is all of the unsaved of all time, not just a very large army. Those who come from hell, death and the sea is after that army is killed.

 

[Douggg]

When discussing Armageddon we must consider the beginning and the conclusion.



The beginning of the Armageddon event is in Revelation 16:13-16 as the kings of the earth begin assembling their armies at Armageddon, a location in Israel, to prepare to make war on Jesus.

The reason for their action is that the world sees the sign of the Son of Man in heaven - sickle in hand, prepared to carry out judgment on the wicked who will have been persecuting the great tribulation saints.

That appearance of Jesus in heaven will terrify the kings of the earth, and all of the wicked. And it will take the convincing of Satan, and the beast-king, and the false prophet - that the kings of earth should make war on Jesus to keep the judgment from taking place.

So the kings of the earth gather their armies at Armageddon in preparation to make war on Jesus.

Between when the sign of the Son of Man in heaven first appears - til Jesus descending to earth will be 45 days. i.e the 1290 days - 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12.

The conclusion of the Armageddon gathering is in Revelation 19:19 at Jesus's Second Coming.


19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[Earburner]

The Bible puts the Battle of Armageddon before the New Jerusalem comes down as Revelation is clear that is when the wicked meet their end in the Lake of Fire. So this can only be at the Second Coming, and you can see it is when the Seven Last Plagues fall from the description in Revelation, and they will come one after another which I think corresponds to the one hour (2 weeks prophetic time) the nations get with the Beast.

Revelation 17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Revelation 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Revelation 18:17
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Revelation 16:1-21
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

If you will notice,
1. WW3 will take place, soon.
2. Immediately after that war, the "MoB" will be implemented/caused by the [UN], the Image of the 10H Beast.
The 10H Beast itself had evolved into a Global Economic Empire.
3. The seven last plagues take place in short duration.
4. The visible, Glorious return of Jesus, in which simultaneously, the Saints are resurrected, as the battle of Amageddon takes place.

 

[ewq1938]

If you will notice,
1. WW3 will take place, soon.
2. Immediately after that war, the "MoB" will be implemented/caused by the [UN], the Image of the 10H Beast.

Where is that supposed world war you speak of in the Rev narrative?


Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


The implication here is that no war against the beast is possible because it is too powerful.


Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The only war mentioned at all is a war against Christians, first mentioned in the last verse of Rev 12. This is not WW3, nor a war against nations etc. This is teh treat tribulation Christ spoke of.



Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
The Second Beast
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


No WW3 is described.

 

[Earburner]

Where is that supposed world war you speak of in the Rev narrative?


Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


The implication here is that no war against the beast is possible because it is too powerful.


Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The only war mentioned at all is a war against Christians, first mentioned in the last verse of Rev 12. This is not WW3, nor a war against nations etc. This is teh treat tribulation Christ spoke of.



Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
The Second Beast
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


No WW3 is described.

Rev. 9:13-21

1. WW3 will take place, soon.
2. Immediately after that war, the "MoB" will be implemented/caused by the [UN], the Image of the 10H Beast.
The 10H Beast itself had evolved into a Global Economic Empire.
3. The seven last plagues take place in short duration.
4. The visible, Glorious return of Jesus, in which simultaneously, the Saints are resurrected, as the battle of Amageddon takes place.