So His entire point of mentioning these stories was to confirm that they really happened?
The Bible
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So His entire point of mentioning these stories was to confirm that they really happened?
Hey, aspen. Let's use your logic.
The entire purpose of the Bible is to reveal God's glory. Therefore, now that we have the general purpose of the Bible, no study needed!
Wrong! The Bible is rich in human reactions to God's omnipotence. It is a study in the human condition. The OT gives us God's omnipotence and the 10 commandments and how we were separated from God in the first place - then God answers His own omnipotence with the example of His own Son - and then we received the HS to encourage us - it is really an amazing story. I find so much value in reading about how people related to an omnipotence God in the OT an NT
You really love to demand answers to your question, but fail to answer any of mine - why?
So then you don't believe Scripture is accurate and divinely inspired, which would also make God to be a liar.
You wonder why Ducky and others observe you having contempt for the Bible?
I do not believe it is literal - I believe it is accurate - every word that is in the Bible is supposed to be there. God is not the liar - people are merely human and reporting heavenly ideas through human eyes.
I know you like to equate a non-literal interpretation of the Bible with something sinister, but it is not accurate.
So either the idea the humans are penning is inspired or not- which is it?
If it's inspired it means it came from GOD'S MIND, not a human's- it is as it says it is.
If it's not inspired then... God help you.
so it is either right or wrong.....
I think you have a pretty high definition of inspired. I believe the Bible is inspired, and I gave my definition of inspired - every word in the Bible is supposed to be there
Selene
New Member
God is a just and merciful God. Those who go to Hell were put there by themselves. God is not vengeful or full of hateful wrath. He values human freedom and wants all of us to be with Him in His kingdom. However, there will be some of us who will reject God. There are some of us who love our sins more than God. There are some of us who are unrepentant and therefore will not and cannot be with God in Heaven. So, they are sent to Hell, not by God but by their own choice. God gave us a choice....Heaven or Hell.....Life or Death? We choose our own path. We can choose to be with God and say "Yes, God come into my life. I accept you as my Lord and Savior." Or we can choose to reject Him. Those who reject Him will be sent to Hell, but not because of God's wrath or vengence....but because they chose that path. God is love. He does not hate. God's real enemy is Satan, and He never killed His enemy. His enemy still lives. When the end of the world comes, Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Hell) along with his minions, but Satan will not die in Hell. Because Satan rejected God, God made a dwelling place for him, which is Hell. Hell was never made for men, but unrepentant men who rejected God will be sent there because that is where they chose to go.
The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah and the Great Flood is not to show that God is a vengeful God or a murderer. God is neither vengeful nor a murderer. The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah and the Great Flood are moral stories. It was written to show that God is a God of justice. It shows that the righteous and all those who obey Him will be saved while those who are unrighteous and wicked will not be saved. These stories and events were written to show God's justice. Hell exists. Those of you who say "well, what about the poor little children who died in the flood" are putting words into the story and only making God into a murderer when the original purpose of the story was to show that God is just.
In the same way, they are some people who do not like the "Hansel and Gretel" fairytale because those children killed the poor old witch by pushing her into the oven is also putting words into the story and making evil look good. They forget the main moral and purpose of the story, which is to teach that those who plot evil will lose and those who do not do evil will have victory and be saved. That is the moral of the story.
If a person finds himself/herself in Hell, it is not a result of God's anger or vengence toward that person for God loves all people and desires to save all of mankind. The person's presence in Hell is a result of the person's choice to be there because he/she rejected God and prefer to do his/her will rather than God's will.
To the people who wrote the Bible, it may seem that God is angry and vengeful toward the wicked simply because of the destruction they saw. The Bible was inspired by God, but that does not mean that God took away the person's limited knowledge as He inspired him to write the books. In other words, when God inspired men to write the Bible, God did not take away their limited human knowledge of the world around them. God used those human authors to get His message to mankind. He revealed Himself in the history of the Jewish people. And His was a message of love. But a lot of times, it is difficult to see that message of love behind the historical events. To find that message of love hidden in Israel's historical and violent past events, one needs the Holy Spirit...the same Holy Spirit that inspired the authors to write the message.
In the Old Testament, you will find stories saying that Israel was conquered by other nations because God punished them for their sins. Ancient Israel would often think that when they lose a battle with their enemy, it is because God has punished them for their sins. Today, we know that God loves us and that it is our sins that will lead to our destruction. This is why in the New Testament, Jesus tells us not to sin and to always turn to Him. When we give in to our greed, people will hate us and these people will seek our destruction. When we hate our neighbors, our neighbors will in turn seek revenge and do what they can to destroy us. In other words, God was not the one who was vengeful and destroyed us or punished us. When we choose to sin, we destroy ourselves. When we give in to drugs, the drugs will destroy our lives. When we give in to sin, we destroy ourselves because our sins lead to our destruction. And like any Father who loves His child, God has been saying all along since the Old Testament to follow Him and not to sin because it leads to death and destruction. God is not happy when we choose Hell. It has nothing to do with revenge or anger. He gives us what we choose.
The Bible says that it is only through Christ that we can know who the Father is. Well, we know that Christ has no sin; therefore, the Father also has no sin and will not commit any sins. God will not violate any of His moral commandments.
James 1:13 Never, when you have been tempted, say, 'God sent the temptation;; God cannot be tempted to do anything wrong, and He does not tempt anybody. Everyone who is tempted is attracted and seduced by his own wrong desires.
In Christ,
Selene
The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah and the Great Flood is not to show that God is a vengeful God or a murderer. God is neither vengeful nor a murderer. The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah and the Great Flood are moral stories. It was written to show that God is a God of justice. It shows that the righteous and all those who obey Him will be saved while those who are unrighteous and wicked will not be saved. These stories and events were written to show God's justice. Hell exists. Those of you who say "well, what about the poor little children who died in the flood" are putting words into the story and only making God into a murderer when the original purpose of the story was to show that God is just.
In the same way, they are some people who do not like the "Hansel and Gretel" fairytale because those children killed the poor old witch by pushing her into the oven is also putting words into the story and making evil look good. They forget the main moral and purpose of the story, which is to teach that those who plot evil will lose and those who do not do evil will have victory and be saved. That is the moral of the story.
If a person finds himself/herself in Hell, it is not a result of God's anger or vengence toward that person for God loves all people and desires to save all of mankind. The person's presence in Hell is a result of the person's choice to be there because he/she rejected God and prefer to do his/her will rather than God's will.
To the people who wrote the Bible, it may seem that God is angry and vengeful toward the wicked simply because of the destruction they saw. The Bible was inspired by God, but that does not mean that God took away the person's limited knowledge as He inspired him to write the books. In other words, when God inspired men to write the Bible, God did not take away their limited human knowledge of the world around them. God used those human authors to get His message to mankind. He revealed Himself in the history of the Jewish people. And His was a message of love. But a lot of times, it is difficult to see that message of love behind the historical events. To find that message of love hidden in Israel's historical and violent past events, one needs the Holy Spirit...the same Holy Spirit that inspired the authors to write the message.
In the Old Testament, you will find stories saying that Israel was conquered by other nations because God punished them for their sins. Ancient Israel would often think that when they lose a battle with their enemy, it is because God has punished them for their sins. Today, we know that God loves us and that it is our sins that will lead to our destruction. This is why in the New Testament, Jesus tells us not to sin and to always turn to Him. When we give in to our greed, people will hate us and these people will seek our destruction. When we hate our neighbors, our neighbors will in turn seek revenge and do what they can to destroy us. In other words, God was not the one who was vengeful and destroyed us or punished us. When we choose to sin, we destroy ourselves. When we give in to drugs, the drugs will destroy our lives. When we give in to sin, we destroy ourselves because our sins lead to our destruction. And like any Father who loves His child, God has been saying all along since the Old Testament to follow Him and not to sin because it leads to death and destruction. God is not happy when we choose Hell. It has nothing to do with revenge or anger. He gives us what we choose.
The Bible says that it is only through Christ that we can know who the Father is. Well, we know that Christ has no sin; therefore, the Father also has no sin and will not commit any sins. God will not violate any of His moral commandments.
James 1:13 Never, when you have been tempted, say, 'God sent the temptation;; God cannot be tempted to do anything wrong, and He does not tempt anybody. Everyone who is tempted is attracted and seduced by his own wrong desires.
In Christ,
Selene
They wrote what God told them to write.
You cannot say on one hand the words are there exactly as God intended them and on the other hand turn around and say that they are HUMAN words not accurate to God's intention.
Answer Ducky's question: do you believe Salvation is literal? Do you believe Christ literally died on the cross?
The amount of heresy and un-Christian garbage allowed to be promoted on this forum is absolutely astounding...
"Blasphemy will not be tolerated. This forum is intended for a Christian audience. Those who are not of the Christian faith are welcome to sign up but will be relegated to private forum discussion with staff members only. Any derogatory remarks about God (including the Son and Holy Spirit) will be removed. The same goes for remarks about Christianity. Do not hold the Bible to be the Word of God? We are not interested, then."
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
I'm surprised that any who consider themselves to be believing Christians would take such a low view of Scripture and inspiration in light of the preceding passage. Also, to define 'inspiration' as "every word in the Bible is supposed to be there" is subjective and without Biblical warrant. It's a blatant equivocation. The Biblical definition is seen quite readily in 2 Tim. 3:16 in bold type. We're told there that all Scripture is 'theopneustos,' that is literally, God-breathed.
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
I'm surprised that any who consider themselves to be believing Christians would take such a low view of Scripture and inspiration in light of the preceding passage. Also, to define 'inspiration' as "every word in the Bible is supposed to be there" is subjective and without Biblical warrant. It's a blatant equivocation. The Biblical definition is seen quite readily in 2 Tim. 3:16 in bold type. We're told there that all Scripture is 'theopneustos,' that is literally, God-breathed.
Inspiration is not the same as dictation. I have a relative that has cognitive deficits - sometimes I have to give her directions - she can follow follow directions, but interprets them in way I could never imagine. It doesn't matter to me because she gets the job done - it is just not in the manner I expected. God faced similar challenges - the difference is He knew exactly what He needed to do to get His point across and every word the author's would choose to write.
God chose to get His point across using human hands - there is nothing wrong with saying this, It is sort of like steering a boat - the turns will not be tight, but they will be effective.
The Bible is most certainly the Word of God - it is just not a direct recording. Your assessment of the information I choose to talk about and present on this forum is inaccurate and ignores the fact that I have been clear about rejecting your vengeful, wrathful image of God, not the God of the Bible.
God breathed does not mean dictated. I actually have a high view of scripture - I value every part of it - even the parts that are not literal. Nothing wrong with stories that affirm God's omnipotence, but may not have actually happened or happen to communicate a human understanding of God's intention. To interpret scripture as defining God rather than God defining scripture is the real danger. I do not fit God's character into scripture written by human hands - I use what I know to be true about His character to understand scripture; to do otherwise is to create a demigod who acts beyond His own definition of morality.
tomwebster
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- Dec 11, 2006
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So you can decide which parts of Scripture are literal or not. Then maybe the virgin birth is not literal, or the cross, or the resurrection. If only part of the Scriptures have value how can any of it be believed?
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
If Scripture says an event took place, who are you to deny it? This is pure subjectivity on your part.
This is a backwards and highly subjective approach to Scripture known as eisogesis. Reading your personal presuppositions and philosophical views into Scripture will only amount to creating God in your own sinful, rebellious image. Scripture should inform our view point, not the other way around.
It sounds like you are looking for security - I place my hope in Christ, not the Bible. However, I do believe all those things happened - if I did not believe in the resurrection I would not be a Christian.
Lets make it really simple, show me the proof, that the bible is Gods word, Jesus and the disciples reffered to the Ot, the Taurah as scripture not the new testament, and also can any show me where God was going to give us a book, that would cause so much divisoin amongst His people. According to Jesus, the only thing He ever gave us was the Holt Spirirt to teach us the truth, and even the disciples say, "the letter killeth, but the spirirt brings life", so are they wrong. Even Jesus said ( according to the bible), " The words that I speak are Spirirt and they are life", was He wrong to?? You seee like many, I dont see the completee bible as the inspired word of God, but yet I see a lot of truth in it, I guess you have to decide, who is the final authority " God ", or the Bible.
In His LOve
In His LOve
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