The Born again : Not workers of iniquity.

[quietthinker]

The "worker of iniquity".... the idea here is....to live in sin because you have no other lifestyle, or no other way to exist.
This is the unbeliever, the non-born again..

Notice the word "iniquity".......so, that is the word "sin", or = a sinner..

So the context is.....a worker, or a lifestyle of a SINNER....... = A sinner is not born again.

A born again person, is not a sinner, they are a SAINT......they have left the realm of the natural and are born again into God's Spirit, and in Him, "in Christ"...= there is no iniquity found.
See, when God looks at a child of God, He only sees His Righteousness that they have become as "the gift of Righteousness".
God will never see you any other way, if you are born again.

If you are not, then you are here ... John 3:36

So, this is why when a Christian behaves badly, .. Paul says we are committing : "works of the Flesh".

Well, works of the flesh are SIN, if you are a sinner......and a sinner is defined as someone who is under the dominion of the law, which is defining their deeds, their carnal lifestyle as "sinner". = They are NOT Born again.

This does not apply to someone who is born again, as all their SIN is on Jesus, who became their/ our sin and died.... which is full payment due US.
Saint, the reason you will only meet God as your Father, is because Jesus's blood, death and resurrection, this Blood Atonement, has made you eternally forgiven which is why God is able to give you the "New Birth", into Himself....."God is A Spirit". and you were birthed into the Spirit of God by the Holy Spirit, which is to become "one with God"....>"in Christ"....>"made righteous"..
This is : Born again.

So, only an unbeliever can live in iniquity, as its only an unbeliever who can be defined by the law, as a SINNER.

WE, the born again, can't be defined by the Law, as it has no power or dominion over us anymore, in God's perspective, and that is why Romans 4:8. and 2 Corinthians 5:19 were put in the NT for you by Paul.
Study...
The Born again are defined by "under GRACE".....and this dominion of Grace eternally defines the born again, as "in Christ", "justified by faith", having "The Gift of Righteousness".
So, if you are born again, and are not just water baptized and very religious.......and are returned to your old carnal habits, then you are as Paul defines...."committing works of the flesh", and are categorized as a "backslider".., and probably your faith is stone cold, dormant, and your discipleship is defined by James as "dead faith".
See, an unbeliever can't be defined as backslidden, as they have never had the born again experience to begin with...
But a believer can be defined as a backslider., even to the point of being "fallen from Grace" and having a "shipwrecked faith".
And remember, "dead faith" is not related to being born again, as being born again has already been completed.
So, "dead faith" only has to do with walking the walk of discipleship, that is separate from Salvation that God has given you as "the Gift of Salvation" that is proven by the fact that you are born again.

Saint, hear me now.....= being born again, is the only real proof of Salvation, as "fruit" can be faked.
The Devil's ministers fake having spiritual fruit 24/7.
They do it on Forums, they do it in Pulpits, and they do it as Preachers, Ministers, ect.
You have to learn how to hear a deceiver, or you will be led into deception by them and they will ruin your faith, and have you trying to keep yourself saved.

So what is the difference between a sinner sinning and a believer committing works of the flesh?
First, the unbeliever is under the law and the born again CHRISTian is "Under Grace".
Also, the sinner is going to hell.
The born again Believer is not.

Another difference is, that God is going to deal with the wayward child of God, according to Hebrews 12:6, and this does not happen to an unbeliever.
What happens to them, is that they "reap what they sow"..."be sure your sin will find you out".....only.

You ramble on about being 'born again' as if you have a privileged window or that others have some control over it. How foolish! Do you not understand that God is its author and instigator.....and that not because ones works qualify them?

 

[Behold]

Only AFTER Christ comes to a person and prepares their heart with the Spirit will they make a confession of faith. Christ determines when that time will be for each person who has ever lived.

No verse in any bible teaches what you just posted.

The only thing that has an "appointment" is your Death.

Hebrews 9:27

 

[Behold]

You ramble on about being 'born again' as if you have a privileged window or that others have some control over it. How foolish! Do you not understand that God is its author and instigator.....and that not because one's works qualify them?

You are full of opinion, and ive noticed, based on your posts.

I think that you have a point of view that is Calvinist, and not related to Paul's Gospel.
How do i know? Its because you just taught Calvinism.........which is..... "God is the author and instigator".
Had you said that Christ is the Author and Finisher, then that is different, as that is Jesus's finished sacrifice and our faith that He finishes.

So, without Free Will, there is no way to believe.

Is believing a work?
No, as what happens in your heart is not a work, its a belief.

See, God would not qualify Salvation as "without works" and then require Faith, if faith was a work.

 

[quietthinker]

I think that you have a point of view that is Calvinist, and not related to Paul's Gospel.
How do i know? Its because you just taught Calvinism.........which is..... "God is the author and instigator".
That denies Free Will,, and without Free Will, there is no way to believe.

Is believing a work?
No, as what happens in your heart is not a work, its a belief.

See, God would not qualify Salvation as "without works" and then require Faith, if faith was a work.

Jesus asked Nicco if he knew where the wind comes from and where it's going. His question tells the hearer (if he/she can hear) that it is God's activity......and just as you can feel the wind, so anyone born of the Spirit is recognisable.......one doesn't need a list of qualifications dictated by another.

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul taught it differently, different nomenclature, but its the same anti-chist spirit.

He taught it like this..

""""So it is no wonder that the Devil's servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve.""""

So, that is John's anti-Christ spirit, at work.

44,000 Denominations are a part of that work, but, not all local assemblies are demonized.
But they are shown to. be, according to : Luke 11:35 and Galatians 1:8

The SPIRIT of ANTI CHRIST DENIES JESUS as the CHRIST .
its all over the all inclusive delusion . That spirit has not been sleeping , its taken many captive in its many path deception .
But i am here to stand against it . And to remind all , YE MUST BELIEVE , YE MUST HAVE FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS
or , OR ITS ALL VAIN PEROID . aint no saved buddists just cause they came together and had some unity
aint no saved muslims just cause they joined with THE RCC and all did good works under the delusion .
FAITH IN CHRIST saves . ALL else is vain . AND I am gonna SOUND THIS OUT till my final breath .

 

[Behold]

Jesus asked Nicco if he knew where the wind comes from and where it's going. His question tells the hearer (if he/she can hear) that it is God's activity......and just as you can feel the wind, so anyone born of the Spirit is recognisable.......one doesn't need a list of qualifications dictated by another.

The only Qualification that God will accept to accept you, is the Cross of Christ.
Through The Cross of Christ is where God joins man, and man becomes a New Creation, "in Christ".

 

[quietthinker]

The SPIRIT of ANTI CHRIST DENIES JESUS as the CHRIST .
its all over the all inclusive delusion . That spirit has not been sleeping , its taken many captive in its many path deception .
But i am here to stand against it . And to remind all , YE MUST BELIEVE , YE MUST HAVE FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS
or , OR ITS ALL VAIN PEROID . aint no saved buddists just cause they came together and had some unity
aint no saved muslims just cause they joined with THE RCC and all did good works under the delusion .
FAITH IN CHRIST saves . ALL else is vain . AND I am gonna SOUND THIS OUT till my final breath .

Reserving judgement as to who is saved and who is not is wisdom.
Dishing out judgement as to who is saved and who is not is foolishness.
The day of great surprises will reveal all in its own time!

 

[amigo de christo]

Reserving judgement as to who is saved and who is not is wisdom.
Dishing out judgement as to who is saved and who is not is foolishness.
The day of great surprises will reveal all in its own time!

Then let us quoate JESUS own words . It will be worse for those who rejected HIM on the day of judgment
than it ER was for even sodom . Cant deny those words .
HE who believes and is baptized shall be saved ,
he who believes not shall be damned .
Cant deny those words . My advice is , IF WE CLAIM to LOVE PEOPLE , THEN PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THEM
cause ONLY JESUS can save them . YEA , i say LOVE THEM and Preach JESUS TO THEM . dont offer up some false hope
cause false hope cannot save . BUT I KNOW JESUS CAN .

 

[quietthinker]

The only Qualification that God will accept to accept you, is the Cross of Christ.
Through The Cross of Christ is where God joins man, and man becomes a New Creation, "in Christ".

God is love. Will you put parameters on God's love? Will you tell him who he can save and who he can't as a result of your limited understanding?

 

[amigo de christo]

God is love. Will you put parameters on God's love? Will you tell him who he can save and who he can't as a result of your limited understanding?

GOD IS LOVE and HE HIMSELF has already put the PARAMETER on who can be saved . BELIEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST
GOD has already chosen HOW to save the world , EMBRACE THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST . cause all else is vain .
GOD has already PREDETERMINED . and nothing man can say can alter what GOD has spoken
AND HE HAS SPOKEN THROUGH THE SON . now HEED HIM and LEARN HIM WELL .

 

[quietthinker]

GOD IS LOVE and HE HIMSELF has already put the PARAMETER on who can be saved . BELIEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST
GOD has already chosen HOW to save the world , EMBRACE THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST . cause all else is vain .
GOD has already PREDETERMINED . and nothing man can say can alter what GOD has spoken
AND HE HAS SPOKEN THROUGH THE SON . now HEED HIM and LEARN HIM WELL .

Did Abraham understand who Jesus was ...or any of the Patriarch's or Matriarchs?.....did Samson? .....and who knows who else had a heart for God in the ancient world?
We are to tell the world good news, not our cut and dried all t's crossed and I's dotted self important understandings.

 

[FaithWillDo]

There is no verse in the NT that says the latter rains of the Spirit, is the Gospel.

So, again, i'll ask you..... You are talking Calvinism, with a twist... But as you keep referring to the ELECT...... How are the elect elected, according to your Theology?

Dear Behold,

Water is the spiritual symbol for the Holy Spirit. It is also commonly referred to as "Rain". The Early Rain describes certain aspects of the Holy Spirit (when it is given and in what measure). I refer to it has the Early Rain of the Spirit so that people can better understand what I am saying. However, adding "of the Spirit" is not necessary since "Rain" means the Holy Spirit.

Here are a few verses:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN; that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

The "Rain" in the above verse is speaking of the Latter Rain. It falls when the wheat (the Elect) is harvested. When it falls, the Elect believer will "perceive and see that your wickedness is great". This is referring to the time when the Man of Sin is revealed and the believer realizes that they are the Man of Sin.

1Kin 8:36 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give RAIN upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance.

Again, the "Rain" mentioned above is the Latter Rain. It is the "inheritance" which the Elect will receive. It is salvation.

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

The Nation of Israel received the Early Rain in "type". For that reason, the Jewish Elect only needed to receive the Latter Rain for salvation. It fell on them on the Day of Pentecost. For the Gentiles, they must travel the same path as the Jewish Elect. They must start at the beginning with the Early Rain and be called out from the world. During the time the "showers are withholden" (time between the Early and Latter Rain), the believer will be given a "whore's forehead" because they fornicate with Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ.

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN, whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.

Again, the "Rain" is referring to the Latter Rain. It confirms their inheritance.

Prov 16:15 In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter RAIN.

The King is Christ and His "light" is truth. His "favor" (blessing) falls upon the Elect has the Latter Rain.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former (Early) RAIN unto the earth.

"If we follow on to know the Lord", He shall come to us as the Early and Latter Rain.

As for the term "Elect":

I quoted you some of the verses on how the Elect are chosen in my previous post. God chose the Elect from the foundation of the world to satisfy His own purposes.

Consider these verses:

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election (Jewish Elect) hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1Thes 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God (Gentile Elect).

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

The "man of sin" is the "son of perdition"......that is a specific title given to the "Beast, the Anti-Christ."

All unbelievers are "anti-christ: as all Christ rejectors, are anti-Christ., but not all unbelievers are the "Son of perdition".

Dear Behold,
Judas is a "type" for the Man of Sin. We all become "Judas" after we are called out from the world and the spirit of anti-Christ enters us.

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Only believers with the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling them are an anti-Christ, false prophet, minister of Satan, wolves, Man of Sin and Seven Headed Beast with 10 Horns & Crowns. Those are all synonymous spiritual terms.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe,

Salvation is : Christ on the Cross.

John 3:16-17
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 12:32
John 14:6

So, your Gospel just denied the Cross, in public.

Galatians 1:8

Dear Behold,
To be saved, we must be "in Christ".

To be "in Christ" we must be given the Early and Latter Rain.

When we are "in Christ", we are crucified on the cross with Christ. This represents the death (penalty of sin) that we must pay to be saved. Our death comes from the judgment of Christ upon our carnal nature. It must be destroyed so that we can be governed by a new spiritual nature which comes from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Without the work of Christ on the cross, our salvation would not be possible.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Here is the best single verse of scripture which teaches the Gospel of Christ:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ gives us "life" from His work on the cross. He gives us a more abundant life by giving us the Early and Latter Rain so that we are born as a child of God and will never sin again. This is the work He is presently doing within His Elect and the work that He will do within the rest of mankind in the final age.

Joe

 

[mailmandan]

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[St. Joseph]

The "worker of iniquity".... the idea here is....to live in sin because you have no other lifestyle, or no other way to exist.
This is the unbeliever, the non-born again..

Notice the word "iniquity".......so, that is the word "sin", or = a sinner..

So the context is.....a worker, or a lifestyle of a SINNER....... = A sinner is not born again.

A born again person, is not a sinner, they are a SAINT......they have left the realm of the natural and are born again into God's Spirit, and in Him, "in Christ"...= there is no iniquity found.
See, when God looks at a child of God, He only sees His Righteousness that they have become as "the gift of Righteousness".
God will never see you any other way, if you are born again.

If you are not, then you are here ... John 3:36

So, this is why when a Christian behaves badly, .. Paul says we are committing : "works of the Flesh".

Well, works of the flesh are SIN, if you are a sinner......and a sinner is defined as someone who is under the dominion of the law, which is defining their deeds, their carnal lifestyle as "sinner". = They are NOT Born again.

This does not apply to someone who is born again, as all their SIN is on Jesus, who became their/ our sin and died.... which is full payment due US.
Saint, the reason you will only meet God as your Father, is because Jesus's blood, death and resurrection, this Blood Atonement, has made you eternally forgiven which is why God is able to give you the "New Birth", into Himself....."God is A Spirit". and you were birthed into the Spirit of God by the Holy Spirit, which is to become "one with God"....>"in Christ"....>"made righteous"..
This is : Born again.

So, only an unbeliever can live in iniquity, as its only an unbeliever who can be defined by the law, as a SINNER.

WE, the born again, can't be defined by the Law, as it has no power or dominion over us anymore, in God's perspective, and that is why Romans 4:8. and 2 Corinthians 5:19 were put in the NT for you by Paul.
Study...
The Born again are defined by "under GRACE".....and this dominion of Grace eternally defines the born again, as "in Christ", "justified by faith", having "The Gift of Righteousness".
So, if you are born again, and are not just water baptized and very religious.......and are returned to your old carnal habits, then you are as Paul defines...."committing works of the flesh", and are categorized as a "backslider".., and probably your faith is stone cold, dormant, and your discipleship is defined by James as "dead faith".
See, an unbeliever can't be defined as backslidden, as they have never had the born again experience to begin with...
But a believer can be defined as a backslider., even to the point of being "fallen from Grace" and having a "shipwrecked faith".
And remember, "dead faith" is not related to being born again, as being born again has already been completed.
So, "dead faith" only has to do with walking the walk of discipleship, that is separate from Salvation that God has given you as "the Gift of Salvation" that is proven by the fact that you are born again.

Saint, hear me now.....= being born again, is the only real proof of Salvation, as "fruit" can be faked.
The Devil's ministers fake having spiritual fruit 24/7.
They do it on Forums, they do it in Pulpits, and they do it as Preachers, Ministers, ect.
You have to learn how to hear a deceiver, or you will be led into deception by them and they will ruin your faith, and have you trying to keep yourself saved.

So what is the difference between a sinner sinning and a believer committing works of the flesh?
First, the unbeliever is under the law and the born again CHRISTian is "Under Grace".
Also, the sinner is going to hell.
The born again Believer is not.

Another difference is, that God is going to deal with the wayward child of God, according to Hebrews 12:6, and this does not happen to an unbeliever.
What happens to them, is that they "reap what they sow"..."be sure your sin will find you out".....only.

You are under the thumb of your flesh nature as long as you are in this body. We are not perfect. We still commit sin,we just dont continue,or wallow in them. We ask for forgiveness and he cleans us up.

 

[St. Joseph]

Dear Behold,
To be saved, we must be "in Christ".

To be "in Christ" we must be given the Early and Latter Rain.

When we are "in Christ", we are crucified on the cross with Christ. This represents the death (penalty of sin) that we must pay to be saved. Our death comes from the judgment of Christ upon our carnal nature. It must be destroyed so that we can be governed by a new spiritual nature which comes from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Without the work of Christ on the cross, our salvation would not be possible.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Here is the best single verse of scripture which teaches the Gospel of Christ:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ gives us "life" from His work on the cross. He gives us a more abundant life by giving us the Early and Latter Rain so that we are born as a child of God and will never sin again. This is the work He is presently doing within His Elect and the work that He will do within the rest of mankind in the final age

"He who is without sin....." Is that you?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

We still commit sin,we just dont continue,or wallow in them.

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

We ask for forgiveness and he cleans us up.

How many times before it becomes a game?

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Galatians 6:7-8)

 

[mailmandan]

"He who is without sin....." Is that you?

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This person isn’t saved.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This one is saved, and as a result:

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin…” (1 John 3:9)

Such biblical illiteracy…