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The Case Against the Trinity

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Wrangler, Feb 14, 2021.

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  1. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they entirely overlook the main fundaments of any hermeneutical process - one cannot be dogmatic about any doctrine, unless there are substantial amount of didactic, explicit and prophetical (verified by a NT author) verses to substantiate their position.
     
  2. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    I am not the one going around and claiming I have just one verse my friend,

    look in the mirror at how you and your buddy talk to people. Look inside, I am also not the one angry, but that is all I have witnessed from your posts,

    remember when you point the finger you always have three pointing back at you

    When you DISCUSS the word, you discuss. Openly, mocking and belittling people who do not agree with you is not christlike,

    anyway, I leave you with your belief, you have shown you have no desire to discuss anything, just push your view, any thread that is open in this way is an irrelevant thread,
     
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  3. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    See here we go. We do this we do that.

    dude, your pride is deep. You act like people have not studied this before, this crap that because we donot believe as you do we have not studied is for the birds,

    I will leave this thread and not waste my time anymore, you have exposed your true purpose, good day sir
     
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  4. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    Well the word trinity does not appear in the Bible but the fact there are three persons who make up teh one God is found in Genesis -Revelatoin
     
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  5. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    Different terms in teh original with differing meanings. so no we are not begotten of God like Jesus was begotten in the flesh.

    but you must remember he is the eternal son of God! Just HIs humanity was made but not who He has been for all eternity.
     
  6. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God;
    and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
    In this was manifested the love of God toward us,
    because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world,
    that we might live through Him. Herein is love,
    not that we loved God, but that He loved us,
    and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.'

    (1 John 4:7)

    Hello @justbyfaith,

    There is only one 'Begotten' Son of God, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. Believers are not 'begotten' of God, for we are 'begotten' naturally by our parents. No! Believers are given the spirit of adoption ( Romans 8:15 ), whereby they can call the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 'Father' ( Ephesians 1:5 ). The adoption becomes ours at the resurrection from the dead ( Romans 8:23 ).

    Angels are called 'sons of God' because they were created by Him, but they were not 'begotten' but 'made'. Hence this distinction is made.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  7. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    only begotten = monogenēs

    single of its kind, only

    1. used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)

    2. used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
     
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  8. Ronald David Bruno

    Ronald David Bruno Well-Known Member

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    Ask yourself, are you insults on this forum examples of the fruit of the Spirit, such as love, kindness, gentleness, patience, self control? You are calling all of us babbling fools. Doesn't scripture warn against this:
    "... whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire!" Matthew 5:22

    You know, the Pharisees accused Jesus of performing miracles by Satan's power, and in essence accused Jesus of being demon possessed, or an agent of Satan, come to deliver lies and deceive. More so, this implication would suggest that they thought everything from Jesus was a lie, evil and from the power of Satan. This power was from God, His truth was from God, His miracles were from God and so he condemned them and said that blaspheming against the Holy Spirit was the unpardonable sin.
    You are claiming that this doctrine is from Satan. However, if we are correct, if this doctrine is from God, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit in saying that it is from Satan. And that is the unpardonable sin. You better be sure you are correct, because 95% of all Christianity believes in the Triune God. Judgment is certainly coming.

    What is love if it is without a relationship? If you live on an island by yourself, other than loving and caring for yourself, how could you demonstrate love outside yourself? Doesn't love require expression outside of oneself? Without a relationship, love loses it's meaning, doesn't it? So prior to God's creation, and the creation of angels, was God, love? You are implying that He was alone, by Himself. How could He be love? How could He have a relationship and express His love in that relationship, if He was alone? Doesn't it make more sense that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit existed as ONE God. Communing with each other, communicating with each other in a perfect union, a loving relationship. This is all conjecture of course, but don't we see that the expression of love always requires a relationship in life? In marriage, two become one and then their union adds another, a child. Family of 3 = 1 family. God created light, but isn't light composed of three primary colors? Water is composed of H20. If we examine an parts of an apple under a microscope, like the skin, the flesh and the seed, we see the cells of an apple in each part, all looking the same, yet somewhat different 3 parts = 1 apple. Of course these physical things are not exactly the same but they are examples of this tri-unity in life.
    Beyond scripture, I think that we see this tri-unity in many aspects of life, bur the best argument is in love. I think that because God is Love, to me it would seem difficult to imagine that He would be alone before creation, just loving himself and talking to Himself. Just a thought.
    Be careful with your words and know that it is apparent you will not convince any of us Trinitarians with your reasoning, so why not just keep it to yourself? Remember, "by their fruit you will know them". So examine the fruit of the Spirit, do these godly attributes reflect your life? Is God growing this fruit in you?
     
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  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    1Pe 1:3, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Hi @charity,

    I suppose that we will have to agree to disagree.

    Jesus went from being the only begotten to being the firstbegotten when other siblings came into the picture (Hebrews 1:6).
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Just know that if @DNB did commit the unpardonable sin, there is still 2 Samuel 14:14 and Acts of the Apostles 3:19 that can come into play...in that Jesus may offer him the equivalent of forgiveness.

    You are only hardening him in his stance, @Ronald David Bruno.

    If he committed the unpardonable sin, there is no redemption for him, correct? Why then would he change his pov in order to obtain redemption? For such a thing would be impossible.
     
  11. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    You definitely did say that all you need is one verse.
     
  12. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    I am merely saying that both cannot be right, and thus, one must be egregiously wrong in such a matter as this.
    I have stated my case, yes, with vehemence, as to why I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is not to be taken seriously, and ultimately, regarded with contempt.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  13. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @justbyfaith,

    Please be careful what you are saying, for you are handling the word of God concerning God's only Begotten Son. Consider the position you say you hold on this forum , and hold your tongue, for you are standing on holy ground.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that I am saying anything contrary to the holy scriptures, @charity.
     
  15. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    The doctrine of the trinity is offensive for the reasons that I cited, I am not casting abuse just for the sake of it, it truly offends me, ...again, for all the sound reasons that I gave.

    Yes, you are 100% correct, and I still believe that the doctrine is demonically inspired.

    Ronald, that is exactly my point, you trinitarians throw around these implausible philosophies, and it seems to enamor and seduce those that don't bother to think it through. How does one omniscient being or person, communicate to another omniscient person? What meaningful and sound dynamic could possibly take place between two all knowing minds, that can anticipate every single word that is going to proceed out of the other's mouth? Not only that, but why even initiate a question, statement or response to the other, when each one knows all things under the sun, past, present and future. What could one, in any reasonable and 'loving' sense, say to the other???

    Ronald, it's all insanity, ...again, for all the reasons that I enumerated in my initial post. I am not being unreasonable, I find it all to be putrid nonsense, from start to finish. The terms are not in the Bible, the redundancy in the godhead, the absurd dynamic in the atonement (God propitiating Himself), who does one pray to, not a single conversion took place employing a trinitarian formula, how can a son be eternal, what in the world is a god-man, etc...
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Jesus took on a finite human form when He descended to become the Son.

    He emptied Himself of some of the attributes of Deity in order to be able to come and die on the Cross.

    He became human.

    (for example, the Son is no longer Omniscient, since He has a finite, human mind; while the Spirit who dwells within Him remains Omniscient).
     
  17. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    The desperation to make such obviously absurd claims with no foundation is clearly seen by the lack of actual Biblical reference. The trinity is not in the Bible, not the word, not the idea - anywhere in the Bible.

    There are clear verses where Jesus said God is greater than he, that God raised him from the dead, that Jesus is going to his God. That is the only God. Jesus' God is God alone. This is what is stated 1,000's of times from Genesis to Revelation.


    Grace and peace be with you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus the Anointed.
    Philippians 1:2 (Voice)
     
  18. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    I've come to this conclusion also. Who is this 3rd 'person?' The fact that this '3rd person' is not God is that we pray FOR the Spirit but not TO the Spirit.

    Trinitarians cannot admit the simple truth; that the trinity is not in the Bible - not the word not the idea. No verse states that the nature of God is triune and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. Trinitarians such ignore this simple fact.
     
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is (True Trinity. (posts #1-#6)).
     
  20. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe there are countless incongruities in the doctrine. As you stated, in short, the Holy Spirit does receive a tenth of the glory and praise that the Father & Son do - no co-equality at all.
    And every where that it should state the triune nature of God, it doesn't i.e. psalms & doxologies of all the major characters of the Bible, those closest to God. Not one conversion in the NT cited a trinitarian formula. When Paul stipulates the requirements for the Atonement, he never says a 'god-man' is required, but the opposite, man for man (Romans 5).
    And, non of their leading proponents have ever been able to explain it.
     
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