The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

[farouk]

No.

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:


This is talking about unbelieving Jews and unbelieving Gentiles VS. the Church which is made up of believing Jews and Gentiles.

The church was first populated by believing Jews/Israel the 12 disciples.

But Jews and the church are not the same thing, either in fact and real life, or in Scripture interpretation.

 

[ewq1938]

But Jews and the church are not the same thing

When they follow Christ they are the church. It started with the 12 disciples. Gentiles that believe join the church that Israel started.

 

[farouk]

When they follow Christ they are the church. It started with the 12 disciples. Gentiles that believe join the church that Israel started.

As I see it, the church began in Acts 2 at Pentecost. People of Jewish and Gentile background converted to Christ. Israel did not start any church.

 

[ewq1938]

As I see it, the church began in Acts 2 at Pentecost.

You are wrong. The church GREW at Pentecost. It was members of the church that were there leading everything and speaking in multiple languages.

 

[farouk]

You are wrong. The church GREW at Pentecost. It was members of the church that were there leading everything and speaking in multiple languages.

The Holy Spirit came to indwell at the church's birthday at Pentecost.

I don't see in Scripture some Jewish Pentecost having happened at a separate event, starting some supposed entity such as a Jewish church.

 

[ewq1938]

The Holy Spirit came to indwell at the church's birthday at Pentecost.

That proves my point and disproves yours. A birthday means someone existed a year before. lol. You aren't good at debate.

 

[farouk]

That proves my point and disproves yours. A birthday means someone existed a year before. lol. You aren't good at debate.

By birthday I meant, when the church was born...

 

[Davy]

So says you. But the lexicons, the Vine's Dictionary, 2 Interlinear Bibles and multiple Bible commentators say otherwise. That is unless you have a Doctor of Divinity Degree to be shown then your interpretation is false and your manner in which you say

That thinking certainly is a bunch of baloney, as I already proved by two different usages of the Greek word naos in The New Testament; one for the spiritual temple in Heaven, and one for the literal physical temple in Jerusalem during Christ's 1st coming.

So trying to apply the "temple of God" phrase by Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 to be about Paul's 'spiritual temple' idea is a DOCTRINE OF DEVILS. And as usual, it takes abuse of the words of even a lot of those with divinity degrees to try and push such doctrines of the devil!

The spiritual temple with Christ Jesus as its Chief Cornerstone CANNOT BE CORRUPTED; not by any man nor spirit, nor devil. Even a little child can understand that JESUS CHRIST CANNOT BE CORRUPTED, and that... is what would have to happen for His spiritual temple to be corrupted!

So doctorate or no doctorate degree, a little child can understand that!

And you know what an 'expert' is? Well, the word is made up of two words, 'ex' which means 'used to be', and 'spert' which means 'a short spert of nothing'. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans in comparison to the SIMPLICITY that is God's Word!

Furthermore, it is NO mystery that Satan's little workers here on earth against Christ love to creep in among Christ's body, and get many degrees to appear like they can be trusted JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE UNIVERSITY DEGREES! I heard one preacher who had a doctorate from Vanderbilt University Seminary, and all he preached one Sunday was how we need to adopt little children from overseas and bring them here to the U.S.! He never even quoted one single verse from God's Word that day! He only PUSHED a political correctness agenda from men's doctrines!!! So that's what I think about a lot of the doctors out there with divinity degrees!

 

[covenantee]

And you know what an 'expert' is? Well, the word is made up of two words, 'ex' which means 'used to be', and 'spert' which means 'a short spert of nothing'.

Provide a link to the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of "spert". I'm curious.

 

[Davy]

Provide a link to the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of "spert". I'm curious.

Do your own... homework.

And that includes using a simple Strong's Exhaustive Concordance about the Greek word 'naos' as to HOW it was used in The New Testament!

 

[Davy]

Just so you know, Brethren in Christ that are interested...

The doctrine of men idea that the "temple of God" phrase which Apostle Paul used below is about Christ's spiritual temple, has a certain purpose in those men's false doctrines...

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

Apostle Paul is pointing directly to a certain false one there that is to come, and sit in that "temple of God", proclaiming himself as God, and over all that is even called God, or that is worshiped.

That false one represents the pseudo-Christ that Lord Jesus warned is to come at the end of this world, per the Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture. It is the "another beast", the 2nd beast of Revelation 13 that Apostle John warned will work those great signs and miracles, and even raining fire down from heaven to the earth in sight of men.

Now we KNOW... Christ's spiritual temple CANNOT be that "temple of God" Paul is pointing to, because Christ is the Chief Cornerstone of the spiritual temple idea, of which His Apostles and prophets make up the base foundation, and those who remain faithful in Christ as lively stones in it. If that spiritual temple could be corrupted, then it would mean Christ Jesus Himself could be corrupted! And who would propose such an idea? A devil crept in unawares among those deceived that believe such a LIE.

The "temple of God" Paul was pointing is about a NEW PHYSICAL TEMPLE FOR THE END of this world built by the orthodox unbelieving JEWS, in TODAY'S JERUSALEM, on earth. Those Jews already have the materials ready to build it! And when the prophesied pseudo-Messiah shows up, well just you wait and see!

So WHO would try to and 'change' Paul's prophecy about that for the end? Here are some possibilities...

1. those still on the old doctrines of the Protestant Reformation. They believe the Antichrist for the end is about a Catholic Pope. So they treat that "temple of God" as the spiritual temple, with a Pope sitting over Christ's Church for the end, working falseness. But no, that Scripture ain't about no Pope. Their idea is a doctrine of men, not God's Word.

2. Jews who see no more need for a physical temple, so they are against any idea that God's Word points to another Jewish temple being built for the end. Those Jews simply are deceived about God's Word, not really heeding His Word on that. Thus theirs is another doctrine of men.

3. The "synagogue of Satan". They have every reason to try and change that "temple of God" into the spiritual temple idea, simply because they KNOW their king (the dragon) is coming to sit in that new Jewish temple to play Messiah, and thus deceive the whole world (except us, Christ's elect - see Rev.13:4-8)! So they do not want anyone understanding that Paul was pointing to an actual new physical temple built for the end of this world. Theirs is an actual doctrine from the devil himself.

BIBLICAL FACTS ABOUT IT:
1. in order to fulfill the "abomination of desolation" Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel for the end of this world, it requires... a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the abomination idol to be setup in (see end of Rev.13 about that idol).

2. in order for the coming pseudo-Messiah (as the "vile person") to create the "league" of Daniel 11, the old covenant must be started up again with animal sacrifices, and that also requires a temple to do those sacrifices with.

3. in order for that coming pseudo-Messiah to end... the daily sacrifice per the Daniel 11 Scripture, that old covenant for the orthodox Jews must be in place in Jerusalem again.

4. in Revelation 11:1-2, John is shown those who worship inside the temple, and it shows that it is a physical temple on earth, because the Gentiles are given its outer courts, and to tread the holy city Jerusalem for 42 months. And that happens within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing. Jesus comes after that on the 7th Trumpet per that same Chapter. Thus a new third temple IS... to be built for the end of this world, for the coming "great tribulation".

 

[covenantee]

Do your own... homework.

And that includes using a simple Strong's Exhaustive Concordance about the Greek word 'naos' as to HOW it was used in The New Testament!

"Spert" does not appear in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Ephesians 2:21-22
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

"eidóleion" physical:

1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

"hieros/hieron" physical:

1 Corinthians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[Moriah's Song]

By birthday I meant, when the church was born...

Actually, God's "church/God's people" began in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. The term "my people" occurs 841 times in scripture beginning in Genesis and ending in Revelation. This is a sampling of those 841 terms.

Gen 23:11..."No, my lord, hear me; I give you the field, and I give you the cave that is in it; in the presence of the sons of my people I give it to you;...."

Gen 41:40...you shall be over my house, and all my people shall order themselves as you command; only as regards the throne will I be greater than you."

Exo 3:7...Then the LORD said, "I have seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters; I know their sufferings,

Exo 3:10...Come, I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring forth my people, the sons of Israel, out of Egypt."

Exo 5:1...Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, 'Let my people go, that they may hold a feast to me in the wilderness.'"

Exo 6:7..."and I will take you for my people, and I will be your God; and you shall know that I am the LORD your God, who has brought you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

Exo 7:16...And you shall say to him, 'The LORD, the God of the Hebrews, sent me to you, saying, "Let my people go, that they may serve me in the wilderness; and behold, you have not yet obeyed."

Lev 26:12...And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be my people.

1Sa 9:16 - "Tomorrow about this time I will send to you a man from the land of Benjamin, and you shall anoint him to be prince over my people Israel.

2Sa 7:8 - Now therefore thus you shall say to my servant David, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, I took you from the pasture, from following the sheep, that you should be prince over my people Israel;

2Sa 7:11 - from the time that I appointed judges over my people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. Moreover the LORD declares to you that the LORD will make you a house.

Mat 2:6 - 'And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.'"

Act 7:34 - I have surely seen the ill-treatment of my people that are in Egypt and heard their groaning, and I have come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send you to Egypt.'

Rom 9:25 - As indeed he says in Hose'a, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'my beloved.'"

Rom 9:26 - "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

2Co 6:16 - What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 - This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Rev 18:4 - Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;​

 

[Moriah's Song]

That thinking certainly is a bunch of baloney, as I already proved by two different usages of the Greek word naos in The New Testament; one for the spiritual temple in Heaven, and one for the literal physical temple in Jerusalem during Christ's 1st coming.

You have not proved anything. "Naos" is always spiritually interpreted but dispensationalism corrupts it because it does not fit their pre-conceived ideas from the 1800's.

 

[amigo de christo]

But Jews and the church are not the same thing, either in fact and real life, or in Scripture interpretation.

The true church , the true children of GOD , are jews and gentiles WHO believe in the ONE WHOM GOD DID SEND .
JESUS CHRIST . THEY are the only ones of the TREE .
A jew is not even a true jew if he believes not in Christ . Now paul , a jew , even said that .
The reason i bring this up , IS TO LET ALL that draws breath know ONE SIMPLE TRUTH . NO JESUS , NO SALVATION .
NO JESUS , NO ETERNAL LIFE . YE must BELEIVE TO BE SAVED .

 

[Moriah's Song]

So trying to apply the "temple of God" phrase by Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 to be about Paul's 'spiritual temple' idea is a DOCTRINE OF DEVILS. And as usual, it takes abuse of the words of even a lot of those with divinity degrees to try and push such doctrines of the devil!

It is not I that is "abusing the word" NAOS spiritually; it is your lack of researching Strong's concordance, a Bible dictionary, an Interlinear Bible or a Lexicon that will verify the difference between "naos" and "hieron" when used in scripture either for the Holy of Holies inner sanctuary or the building that encloses the sanctuary. Picture the church you attend, (I assume you do anyway). That altar and the "sanctuary" areas where people sit would be referred to in the Greek as the "naos." But the building itself that encloses the sanctuary would be "hieron" in the Greek.

When Jesus died on the cross, the "curtain" of the inner sanctuary, (the Holy of Holies) was torn in two to communicate that sins are forgiven and there is no longer any barrier. Add to that, the tearing from top to bottom also indicates that God the Father opened the way Himself. You can come to God by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Any "temple" (hieron) that man builds does not mean that it will ever be sanctioned by God because it would be a contradiction to the very purpose of what was intended to be a "once and for all" opening the barriers between God and man. As Sam Storms put it, "reinstating sacrifices again would be an absolute abomination" to the Lord no matter what "label" man attaches to that false doctrine.

(Sam Storms was a theologian that was a devout dispensationalist who graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary. He had to write a thesis paper on Ephesians 2 but he could not get past the implications of that chapter because it clearly indicated that both Jews and Gentiles are now the body of Christ - his church.)

Therefore, there is no need for a temple because we are "God's temple on earth."

 

[Davy]

"Spert" does not appear in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Ephesians 2:21-22
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

"eidóleion" physical:

1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

"hieros/hieron" physical:

1 Corinthians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

WARNING BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

The above person is a DECEIVER. The above post has cherry-picked ONLY New Testament verses pointing to Apostle Paul's spiritual temple idea for the Greek word 'naos' (NT:3485), FALSELY TRYING to prove that it always means Paul's spiritual temple idea. IT DOES NOT.

Below are ALL New Testament Scriptures using that SAME GREEK word 'naos' (NT:3485), and below it is used about the PHYSICAL LITERAL STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM. And these below are just a few New Testament examples...

Matt 23:16
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
KJV

Matt 23:17
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
KJV

Matt 23:21
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
KJV

Matt 23:35
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
KJV

Matt 26:61
61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
KJV

Matt 27:5
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
KJV

Matt 27:51
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
KJV

 

[Davy]

You have not proved anything. "Naos" is always spiritually interpreted but dispensationalism corrupts it because it does not fit their pre-conceived ideas from the 1800's.

The Greek word 'naos' (NT:3485) is NOT ALWAYS TO BE INTERPRETED as a spiritual temple!

I have already given solid Biblical proof that Greek 'naos' is ALSO USED to point to the LITERAL STONE TEMPLE in Jerusalem, even with the renting of the veil inside the 2nd temple in Jerusalem when Jesus died on the cross!

 

[Davy]

It is not I that is "abusing the word" NAOS spiritually; it is you lack of researching Strong's concordance, a Bible dictionary, an Interlinear Bible or a Lexicon that will verify the difference between "naos" and "hieron" when used in scripture either for the Holy of Holies inner sanctuary or the building that encloses the sanctuary. Picture the church you attend, (I assume you do anyway). That altar and the "sanctuary" areas where people sit would be referred to in the Greek as the "naos." But the building itself that encloses the sanctuary would be "hieron" in the Greek.

I used The Englishman's Concordance. But I also have a Strong's, and many other Bible study tools!

 

[covenantee]

WARNING BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

The above person is a DECEIVER. The above post has cherry-picked ONLY New Testament verses pointing to Apostle Paul's spiritual temple idea for the Greek word 'naos' (NT:3485), FALSELY TRYING to proof that it always means Paul's spiritual temple idea. IT DOES NOT.

Below are ALL New Testament Scriptures using that SAME GREEK word 'naos' (NT:3485), and below it is used about the PHYSICAL LITERAL STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM. And these below are just a few New Testament examples...

Matt 23:16
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
KJV

Matt 23:17
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
KJV

Matt 23:21
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
KJV

Matt 23:35
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
KJV

Matt 26:61
61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
KJV

Matt 27:5
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
KJV

Matt 27:51
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
KJV

If Paul had intended 2 Thessalonians 2:4 to mean a physical temple, he would have referred to it as "eidóleion" or "hieros/hieron", as he did in the associated passages.

But he didn't. He described it as "naos", consistent with his spiritual temple references in each of the applicable preceding passages.

Paul understood the distinction between spiritual and physical temples.

You don't, because it requires spiritual discernment.

So stop imposing the carnalized fantasies and fallacies of your private interpretations upon the Word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit and recorded by Paul.