The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

[Phoneman777]

Ummmmm, YOU made the idiotic claim that the CATHOLIC CHURCH sold Indulgences.
Now, you are back-pedaling

I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't say the church "abused" anything. I said the church SANCTIONED the sale of ALL indulgences, and did NOTHING to stop Tetzel. They got behind Tetzel as surely as a catholic priest gets behind little boys

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't say the church "abused" anything. I said the church SANCTIONED the sale of ALL indulgences, and did NOTHING to stop Tetzel. They got behind Tetzel as surely as a catholic priest gets behind little boys

A MOUTHFUL of hypocrisy from a guy whose cult has gone molestation-crazy . . .

Abuse At SDA Boarding School? | We Represent 10+ SDA Victims‎

SDA Abuse - Crew Janci LLP: Sexual Abuse Attorneys

A Global Review Of Child Sex Abuse Cases In The Adventist Church

Finding Justice for Victims of Sexual Abuse in the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Seventh-day Adventist church sued over allegations of abuse in youth

Seventh Day Adventists and Sexual Child Abuse - SAGE Books

Lawsuit says Adventist church should've prevented teacher's sex abuse

Adventist Pastor Accused of Sexual Abuse in Office - Courthouse News

Woman claims Seventh Day Adventists failed to protect her from sex .


As for the CHURCH selling Indulgences - you can whine about it until the cows come home but you STILL haven't provided any proof, Einstein . . .

 

[prism]

The Council of Jerusalem appealed to Scripture to show the ROLE of the Gentiles.
They did NOT appeal to Scripture to come to their decision NOT to make binding on the Gentiles the dietary and ceremonial Laws. They relied on their GOD-GIVEN Authority, led by the Holy Spirit. They stated:
Acts 15:28
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements."

Those like me who gladly hold to Sola Scriptura also hold that The Holy Spirit works through His Word in His dealing with men. His Word came to the Jewish Prophets and Jewish Apostles for salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22).
You can add your Traditions, extra biblical doctrine etc., and be no different than other cults I have run into. As far as I and my family goes, we are sticking to the teachings of the Prophets and Apostles.

(1Ti 4:13 KJV) Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

(1Ti 4:16 KJV) Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I also don't know this H. White.
I think what the problem is,,,,generally,,,is that we don't like to hear more about a PERSON rather than about God, Jesus, Holy Ghost, scripture and this type of beliefs.

I tend to think that it IS kind of dangerous to be too attached to one person.
Of course, I'm talking and don't know who I'm talking about so take it with a grain of salt.

For instance, I like the Early Church Fathers. I find it very unwise to post them most of the time because I'm told they were uninspired...even though some of them were taught by an Apostle and it's THEM who put together the N.T.

Just writing to say what I think the problem is...
Not so much HER
as the importance given to her?

Ellen G. White was a FALSE prophetess and one of the founders of the SDA cult.
All it takes is ONE false prophecy to make a FALSE prophet.

Christ warned about such people . . .

Matt. 7:15-20
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.

So by their fruits you will know them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Those like me who gladly hold to Sola Scriptura also hold that The Holy Spirit works through His Word in His dealing with men. His Word came to the Jewish Prophets and Jewish Apostles for salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22).
You can add your Traditions, extra biblical doctrine etc., and be no different than other cults I have run into. As far as I and my family goes, we are sticking to the teachings of the Prophets and Apostles.

But you are rejecting the very Scriptures you CLAIM are your "ultimate" authority . . .

Matt 16:16-19
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, TELL THE CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Now, THAT, my friend is ULTIMATE AUTHORITY . . .

 

[brakelite]

A MOUTHFUL of hypocrisy from a guy whose cult has gone molestation-crazy . . .

Abuse At SDA Boarding School? | We Represent 10+ SDA Victims‎

SDA Abuse - Crew Janci LLP: Sexual Abuse Attorneys

A Global Review Of Child Sex Abuse Cases In The Adventist Church

Finding Justice for Victims of Sexual Abuse in the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Seventh-day Adventist church sued over allegations of abuse in youth

Seventh Day Adventists and Sexual Child Abuse - SAGE Books

Lawsuit says Adventist church should've prevented teacher's sex abuse

Adventist Pastor Accused of Sexual Abuse in Office - Courthouse News

Woman claims Seventh Day Adventists failed to protect her from sex .


As for the CHURCH selling Indulgences - you can whine about it until the cows come home but you STILL haven't provided any proof, Einstein . . .

Theye is no excuse for child abuse of any category in any religious institution. Nor is there any excuse for not fully investigating complaints, carrying out proper procedure, and ensuring the proper authorities are notified and steps taken to protect survivors. No excuses.
I am personally responsible in my church for ensuring all volunteers and workers who are either on the board, or who have teaching or other roles with children are compliant, have undergone police checks, taken courses, and are vetted by us and the state to be fit for their roles. Yet even with the most stringent steps taken, they're are no guarantees because we are all human. But we do all we can to ensure our children, and the children of our neighbours and brothers and sisters in Christ are safe at all times.
In the royal Commission report in Australia 60 cases were reported as being linked to our church. That is totally unacceptable. And the church had taken serious steps to redress this...I am one of those steps. But let us also put certain numbers into perspective. In over the 4000 cases that the abuse was linked to a religious institution, while 60 of the cases were linked to the Adventist church, a church with an educational footprint second only in size and scope to the Catholic church, and a shopping reputation that attracts more students from other domains than Adventist, even Muslim, I think it pertinent to note that of the 4000 cases reported, 2500 were from Catholics. That is over 60%, I think for Catholicism a far more serious issue to deal with and cannot be dismissed as a few isolated cases from a few crook individuals who skipped through the system.
Don't get me wrong. I am not attempting to downplay the incidents that have, and without doubt do still occur in my church, as they do in every church... But the Catholic problem... Well... It is a problem.

 

[brakelite]

But you are rejecting the very Scriptures you CLAIM are your "ultimate" authority . . .

Matt 16:16-19
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, TELL THE CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Now, THAT, my friend is ULTIMATE AUTHORITY . . .

And by the way, several of those links were to law firms advertising their services to victims. Hardly a reliable source I would think. Their job is obviously to increase business, and the more they can use hyperbole etc to bolster their cause, the more business right?
But those cases they do cite... No excuse.
One of them said 500 cases in the US. That is terrible. The church should be doing better, and I believe that more recently there has been major moves in the church to deal with the issue.
Was there not a report from Philadelphia recently that investigated the problem within the Catholic church? Baltimore, and the area adjacent, is like a Catholic enclave within the US isn't it? What did that report uncover as to the extent just in that district of the abuse within the church there?

 

[GodsGrace]

Ellen G. White was a FALSE prophetess and one of the founders of the SDA cult.
All it takes is ONE false prophecy to make a FALSE prophet.

Christ warned about such people . . .

Matt. 7:15-20
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.

So by their fruits you will know them.

Thanks BoL.
I've just never read anything of hers and don't really plan to.
I do believe that there were to be no new revelations after Jesus.
Just clarification on the existing ones.

 

[prism]

But you are rejecting the very Scriptures you CLAIM are your "ultimate" authority . . .

Matt 16:16-19
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, TELL THE CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Now, THAT, my friend is ULTIMATE AUTHORITY . . .

And you just proved my point by resorting to Scripture 5 times in just one post. LOL. You are such a walking contradiction it's hard to have a coherent conversation with you.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Go for it SG, it is an open book and fits hand in glove with the book of Daniel. The time is upon us with events moving rapidly behind the scenes. God will direct and guide if the heart is willing.

I'll keep that in mind - I haven't read through the book of Daniel. The time does seem upon us, and after reading current events I think that God must come soon. We know that no country or civilization can continue the way ours has been.

It's interesting to read about the fall of the Roman empire and we see all the same practices prior to Rome's fall as what is happening in America - and apparently beyond: military excesses, government corruption, mass migration, over-taxation. But I guess that being vexed can serve to drive us to Christ even more. It's just hard to watch because you look around at the destruction of all the things that you once knew that offered stability and nothing seems stable anymore.

 

[Soverign Grace]

There is only one other woman author in American history who has been published more than Ellen White - she is Alice A. Bailey, the occultist, channeller of "Dwal Khul" aka Satan, Luciferian "prophetess" of the New Age.

Sister White did absolutely nothing but point people back to the Bible and to place their faith solely in the Cross of Jesus Christ as our only hope for salvation - not Sabbath keeping, not works or any sort, not anything else.

Did A. A. Bailey do that? She, along with Joanna Southcott, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Edgar Cayce, H. P. Blavatsky, N. V. Peale, C. T. Russell, Pope Pius, Nostradamus, Aleister Crowley, and the rest of the "prophets" of that era did nothing but undermine the teachings of the Bible and point people away from Christ.

Steps to Christ, though small and easily read, is a giant among the Christian classics and if anyone would bother to read it, they'd immediately see that the all the negativity out there about this dear woman is the work of the enemy of souls who hates the Spirit of Prophecy.

I've noticed that as soon as I do something for God, like evangelizing, I get attacked. Satan seems to leave you alone if you're baking cookies for the church social, but start to invade his darkness and he turns his guns on you. So I could see where Satan would attack someone who is leading others to Christ.

It's interesting that I've been a vegetarian for many years - I love animals and eating them always seemed barbaric to me. I read that someone said that they "don't eat anything that has a face" so that's my guide - meat-eating grosses me. I can't even stand to smell it cooking. So my diet aligns with the beliefs of the 7 DA diet. I listened to a radio preacher years ago - "It is Written" and got a few cookbooks from them. I recently found Quinoa - a grain that is high in protein. There is a lot you can eat without resorting to meat.

I encourage others to leave Christian tracts around because years ago I had no one guiding me and I became the victim of the name it and claim it hucksters, but as I sought God I was grateful that I came across that booklet. I think that there are a lot of lost souls that you may reach just by leaving tracts around. And this world needs as much light permeating the darkness as possible. "The entrance of Your Word brings light..."

 

[Soverign Grace]

I imagine people in general think Jesus was a nice guy and they conjure up some image of peace and love and God forbid controversy.
They have done the same with the word love which is generally defined as what goes into their belly and what hangs off it.
I have come to learn that 'nice' and the word 'love' have morphed and become unrecognisable from their intent.
Nice has become an agreeable person without backbone who bends to the will of the majority. This is not the Jesus I read about in the scriptures neither is it his definition of love. The Jesus I read about is a man of grit, sharper than a samurai sword. He is nobody's fool. He treads a path of determined resolve calling the cultural majority to account. Long suffering for sure, gentle with the broken yet not giving the self important, self sufficient double tongued space to trap him. He is jealous for his Fathers Law and is prepared to die for it's integrity.
Yes, nice sucks!

Your observations are profound - "Nice has become an agreeable person without backbone who bends to the will of the majority." Everybody loves you when you go with the flow but when you speak the truth...that's when you get into trouble.

If we judged by the standards of the world, Christ would be a "troublemaker."

Matthew 10:34

“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”

 

[Triumph1300]

Nice blue colours.

 

[Triumph1300]

Love the blue.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Theye is no excuse for child abuse of any category in any religious institution. Nor is there any excuse for not fully investigating complaints, carrying out proper procedure, and ensuring the proper authorities are notified and steps taken to protect survivors. No excuses.
I am personally responsible in my church for ensuring all volunteers and workers who are either on the board, or who have teaching or other roles with children are compliant, have undergone police checks, taken courses, and are vetted by us and the state to be fit for their roles. Yet even with the most stringent steps taken, they're are no guarantees because we are all human. But we do all we can to ensure our children, and the children of our neighbours and brothers and sisters in Christ are safe at all times.
In the royal Commission report in Australia 60 cases were reported as being linked to our church. That is totally unacceptable. And the church had taken serious steps to redress this...I am one of those steps. But let us also put certain numbers into perspective. In over the 4000 cases that the abuse was linked to a religious institution, while 60 of the cases were linked to the Adventist church, a church with an educational footprint second only in size and scope to the Catholic church, and a shopping reputation that attracts more students from other domains than Adventist, even Muslim, I think it pertinent to note that of the 4000 cases reported, 2500 were from Catholics. That is over 60%, I think for Catholicism a far more serious issue to deal with and cannot be dismissed as a few isolated cases from a few crook individuals who skipped through the system.
Don't get me wrong. I am not attempting to downplay the incidents that have, and without doubt do still occur in my church, as they do in every church... But the Catholic problem... Well... It is a problem.

WRONG.

Those are cases where MONEY is being sought.
The fact of the matter is that the problem is almost non-existentin the Catholic Church of today. 95% or the charges were from over 20 years ago and beyond. Some as old as SEVENTY YEARS OLD.

The Catholic Church has taken stringent steps to prevent further incidences of abuse. And just as YOU are involved in this prevention in YOUR church – so am I in MY Church. We fingerprint everybody who is in ANY ministry that has ANYcontact with children. We give regular training to ALL of our clergy and lay ministers in touching safety – as well as the children, who are told to report anything unusual. The result is one of the SAFEST atmospheres for children among ANYreligious group OR public school system.

The fact is that the problem is FAR WORSE in the Protestant denominations and the public school system. BUT, because of the perceived wealth of the Catholic Church – we are the biggest target. There is simply no money involved in going after most Protestant sects.

You can read about ALL of this in the book, Pedophiles and Priests, by PROTESTANT author, Philip Jenkins.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You shoot yourself in the foot here Enoch. After saying 'It is very well supported by Scripture both in the OT and the NT.' you then cite other sources and the scriptures that are cited are not relevant. Calling the first day of the week the Lords Day is a deliberate misappropriation of the term no matter how many scriptural gymnastics are done using the removal of their context.

The basis of Sunday worship is none other than homage to the sun god. It is attempting to nullify the fourth commandment which identifies the creator. It is attempting to remove the glory due to God because of who he is ie, Creator.

The fourth commandment is his seal with its embodiment in the middle of the Commandments. If you don't think so then tell me how else one would identify the author of the ten commandments?

The seventh day Sabbath is no more Israel old covenant than is marriage or the the commandment to not covet or murder or steal etc.

I couldn't find where you posted about Daniel QT so I'm posting it here since you mentioned that Daniel fits with Revelations. I just read that archaeologists found a 1600 year old mosaic in Isael: Biblical Archaeologists Discover Stunning 1,600-Year Old Mosaic In Northern Israel Depicting End Times Prophecy From Book Of Daniel • Now The End Begins

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you just proved my point by resorting to Scripture 5 times in just one post. LOL. You are such a walking contradiction it's hard to have a coherent conversation with you.

No, I'm showing you that even the Scriptures disagree with you about Sola Scriptura . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thanks BoL.
I've just never read anything of hers and don't really plan to.
I do believe that there were to be no new revelations after Jesus.
Just clarification on the existing ones.

The only "revelation" in the writings if E.G. White is the she was a false teacher and prophet who duped a LOT of gullible people . . .

 

[prism]

No, I'm showing you that even the Scriptures disagree with you about Sola Scriptura . . .

What is your final authority here on earth?

 

[quietthinker]

The only "revelation" in the writings if E.G. White is the she was a false teacher and prophet who duped a LOT of gullible people . . .

Said from one who has obviously not read her.