The concept of existence and perfection

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Paul's warning rings down clear through the centuries.

Colossians 2:8
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Indeed, so you should probably stop heeding those who you heed. I agree with you 100%

 

[Paul Christensen]

You know, Ima take this into the other gear. What scripture does God use? what bible verses does he use?

Jesus is God so He would use the same ones.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Jesus is God so He would use the same ones.

He was god and was with God. Sorry nope, you can't be a being and then be physically near that same being. Impossibility. So reanswer

 

[charity]

On existence and perfection
The aim of this paper is to describe the concept of perfect as it pertains to humans. We will start by considering this question: what are christians growing to become. The concept of growth is undeniably there when it comes to a person’s walk with Christ, but is there an end to this growth? Indeed, there is. The end of the growth is what is required to meet the demand that creates a bar one can grow to. The demand in question is God’s demand that all men be perfect and sinless. Therefore, humans are growing towards perfection.

However, if humans were perfect in self then they would be equivalent with Jesus, and God only has one son. Therefore, Christ is an environment in which a perfect being can exist. That way, there can be a perfect being who exists on a lower level of self than Christ. This means that being is not Christ’s equal and that God still only has one son.

A concrete value for this being is unknown, but it is set apart from the rest of creation. All of creation is simulated to be like this being since God demands perfection from all. God maintains ranking though by gaging how much simulation is required for each being to reach perfection in this level of self. The less simulation one requires, the closer to real they are and the more they are acknowledged. However, the real thing is far, far greater than even the closest simulation. So any being who is real on this level of self is far, far greater than any of the other beings on this level of self. In fact, the gap is so wide that using Job as a unit of measure when it comes to the greatness of such a being is an insult to that being. This being is what is known as the image of Christ, the thing all Christians are growing towards.

This is the end of the concept of perfection and existence.

'For whom He did foreknow, He also did pre-destinate
to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
(Romans 8:29)

Hello Ronald,

David said, 'As for me, I will behold Thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness.' (Psalm17:15): and that is the desire of all who have come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and Lord:- to bear His likeness, isn't it?

David expected to bear the Lord's likeness in resurrection. The Lord, Himself, also spoke of His resurrection in Luke 13:32 in terms of - 'being perfected', saying:- '... the third day I shall be perfected'. Only in resurrection will we be perfected, when this mortal will have put on immortality, and this corruption put on incorruption (1 Corinthians 15:53-54).

'Beloved, now are we the sons of God,
and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when He shall appear,
we shall be like him; for we shall see Him as He is.
And every man that hath this hope in him
purifieth himself, even as He is pure.'
(1 John 3:2)

Praise God!

* We are His workmanship.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

'For whom He did foreknow, He also did pre-destinate
to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
(Romans 8:29)

Hello Ronald,

David said, 'As for me, I will behold Thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness.' (Psalm17:15): and that is the desire of all who have come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and Lord:- to bear His likeness, isn't it?

David expected to bear the Lord's likeness in resurrection. The Lord, Himself, also spoke of His resurrection in Luke 13:32 in terms of - 'being perfected', saying:- '... the third day I shall be perfected'. Only in resurrection will we be perfected, when this mortal will have put on immortality, and this corruption put on incorruption (1 Corinthians 15:53-54).

'Beloved, now are we the sons of God,
and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when He shall appear,
we shall be like him; for we shall see Him as He is.
And every man that hath this hope in him
purifieth himself, even as He is pure.'
(1 John 3:2)

Praise God!

* We are His workmanship.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yeah, no. The concept of self obviously flew over your head. Before we go on, tell me what it is. If you don't understand it, you'll never understand what is going on.

 

[DNB]

You just failed when you thought my words were my own

You're deluded Ronald!

 

[Paul Christensen]

You're deluded Ronald!

"There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death" (Proverbs 14:12).

 

[DNB]

"There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death" (Proverbs 14:12).

True, ....but this is a bit more esoteric. His arrogance is the most incriminating factor, to the point that the stupidity and nonsense is just a by-product of his pretense.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

On existence and perfection

The aim of this paper is to describe the concept of perfect as it pertains to humans. We will start by considering this question: what are christians growing to become.The concept of growth is undeniably there when it comes to a person’s walk with Christ, but is there an end to this growth? Indeed, there is. The end of the growth is what is required to meet the demand that creates a bar one can grow to. The demand in question is God’s demand that all men be perfect and sinless. Therefore, humans are growing towards perfection.

However, if humans were perfect in self then they would be equivalent with Jesus, and God only has one son. Therefore, Christ is an environment in which a perfect being can exist. That way, there can be a perfect being who exists on a lower level of self than Christ. This means that being is not Christ’s equal and that God still only has one son.

A concrete value for this being is unknown, but it is set apart from the rest of creation. All of creation is simulated to be like this being since God demands perfection from all. God maintains ranking though by gaging how much simulation is required for each being to reach perfection in this level of self. The less simulation one requires, the closer to real they are and the more they are acknowledged. However, the real thing is far, far greater than even the closest simulation. So any being who is real on this level of self is far, far greater than any of the other beings on this level of self. In fact, the gap is so wide that using Job as a unit of measure when it comes to the greatness of such a being is an insult to that being. This being is what is known as the image of Christ, the thing all Christians are growing towards.

This is the end of the concept of perfection and existence.

not sure what you mean by perfect. What is the definition of perfect as it pertains to humans? What about perfect as it pertains to God? As in “be you perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.” That you may be called the children of God. Consider Ezra 7:19–20 (YLT): And the vessels that are given to thee, for the service of the house of thy God, make perfect before the God of Jerusalem;

“the vessels that are given to thee” “make perfect” for the service of the house of thy God ...whose house are you? Compare the vessels given for the house of God with all the verses where Christ spoke of those given Him of the Father. John 17:23-24 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (Matthew 20:23) ...but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Comparing all the different translations of that verse in Ezra is it: [those deliver] (no one can snatch them out of My hand) or is it make perfect those vessels of service to the house of God? is to deliver from evil and make perfect the same?

וּמָאנַיָּאדִּי־מִתְיַהֲבִין לָלְפָלְחָן בֵּיתאֱלָהָ הַשְׁלֵםקֳדָם אֱלָהּ יְרוּשְׁלֶם

7:19 ûmänaYä Diy-mit'yaháviyn läkh' l'fäl'chän Bëyt élähäkh' hash'lëm qódäm éläHy'rûsh'lem

7:19 The vessels 3984 also that x1768 are given 3052 z8727 thee for the service 6402 of the house 1005 of thy ´Éläh אֱלָה, 426[those] deliver 8000 z8680 thou before 6925 the ´Éläh אֱלָה 426 of Yærûšälaim יְרוּשָׁלִַם. 3390

וּשְׁאָר חַשְׁחוּתבֵּית אֱלָהָ דִּייִפֶּל־לָ לְמִנְתַּןתִּנְתֵּן מִן־בֵּית גִּנְזֵימַלְכָּא


Strong's Number 8000 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com

make those given to thee for the service of the house of thy God ...perfect (complete, sound, delivered from evil, delivered from death and sin) before the God of Jerusalem:

complete, (Colossians 2:10),
be finished (Hebrews 12:2), (Philippians 1:6)
be sound (2 Timothy 1:7), (Acts 3:16)And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
render in full...
deliver in full, (Matthew 6:13), (2 Timothy 4:18) (2 Corinthians 1:10)
put an end. (Hebrews 2:15) (Jeremiah 29:11)

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

You're deluded Ronald!

You condemn me for saying something like that, not whether it's right or wrong. Don't you see you're doing the same exact thing if you claim to speak truth? Truth by nature is the language of God, so if you speak it you speak his words rather than your own.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

True, ....but this is a bit more esoteric. His arrogance is the most incriminating factor, to the point that the stupidity and nonsense is just a by-product of his pretense.

Says the dude being as arrogant as me. Only difference is my pride is irghtfully founded whereas yours is a dillusion

 

[Paul Christensen]

You condemn me for saying something like that, not whether it's right or wrong. Don't you see you're doing the same exact thing if you claim to speak truth? Truth by nature is the language of God, so if you speak it you speak his words rather than your own.

I think that you could increase your credibility by actually adding something of your own belief and opinion in response to the others', instead of just running down what others are posting.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

not sure what you mean by perfect. What is the definition of perfect as it pertains to humans? What about perfect as it pertains to God? As in “be you perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.” That you may be called the children of God. Consider Ezra 7:19–20 (YLT): And the vessels that are given to thee, for the service of the house of thy God, make perfect before the God of Jerusalem;

“the vessels that are given to thee” “make perfect” for the service of the house of thy God ...whose house are you? Compare the vessels given for the house of God with all the verses where Christ spoke of those given Him of the Father. John 17:23-24 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (Matthew 20:23) ...but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Comparing all the different translations of that verse in Ezra is it: [those deliver] (no one can snatch them out of My hand) or is it make perfect those vessels of service to the house of God? is to deliver from evil and make perfect the same?

וּמָאנַיָּאדִּי־מִתְיַהֲבִין לָלְפָלְחָן בֵּיתאֱלָהָ הַשְׁלֵםקֳדָם אֱלָהּ יְרוּשְׁלֶם

7:19 ûmänaYä Diy-mit'yaháviyn läkh' l'fäl'chän Bëyt élähäkh' hash'lëm qódäm éläHy'rûsh'lem

7:19 The vessels 3984 also that x1768 are given 3052 z8727 thee for the service 6402 of the house 1005 of thy ´Éläh אֱלָה, 426[those] deliver 8000 z8680 thou before 6925 the ´Éläh אֱלָה 426 of Yærûšälaim יְרוּשָׁלִַם. 3390

וּשְׁאָר חַשְׁחוּתבֵּית אֱלָהָ דִּייִפֶּל־לָ לְמִנְתַּןתִּנְתֵּן מִן־בֵּית גִּנְזֵימַלְכָּא


Strong's Number 8000 Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com

make those given to thee for the service of the house of thy God ...perfect (complete, sound, delivered from evil, delivered from death and sin) before the God of Jerusalem:

complete, (Colossians 2:10),
be finished (Hebrews 12:2), (Philippians 1:6)
be sound (2 Timothy 1:7), (Acts 3:16)And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
render in full...
deliver in full, (Matthew 6:13), (2 Timothy 4:13) (2 Corinthians 1:10)
put an end. (Hebrews 2:15) (Jeremiah 29:11)

It's kind of funny how unwise this is. This arguement is flawed because you use the bible as the basis rather than the spirit. You take a part and call it the whole. In doing this you create a false spirit, so you don't even have a part of the truth anymore

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

I think that you could increase your credibility by actually adding something of your own belief and opinion in response to the others', instead of just running down what others are posting.

First off, it's not opinion it's fact. Truth is fact, not an opinion. Second, what use would it offer? You are all deaf and I have proven it by argueing with you profusely. You say I haven't, but that's because you see what you want to see. The only answer to this is force that God will deal you on that day. So drink and be merry for tommorow, on that day, you will die

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

"There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death" (Proverbs 14:12).

Stop quoting stuff you don't even understand. It's talking about you kid

 

[Paul Christensen]

First off, it's not opinion it's fact. Truth is fact, not an opinion. Second, what use would it offer? You are all deaf and I have proven it by argueing with you profusely. You say I haven't, but that's because you see what you want to see. The only answer to this is force that God will deal you on that day. So drink and be merry for tommorow, on that day, you will die

This reminds me of the book by the NZ author Barry Crump, entitled: "Bastards I Have Met". My dad wanted to write a book called that, but Barry Crump beat him to it. I get the impression that you think that everyone is a religious version of Barry Crump's description, "except you and me, and I'm not sure about you!"

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

This reminds me of the book by the NZ author Barry Crump, entitled: "Bastards I Have Met". My dad wanted to write a book called that, but Barry Crump beat him to it. I get the impression that you think that everyone is a religious version of Barry Crump's description, "except you and me, and I'm not sure about you!"

I speak the truth which means what I say is not my own by nature of the truth. So you just insulted God, great going!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Stop quoting stuff you don't even understand. It's talking about you kid

Why don't you just contribute something worthwhile instead of pouring out abuse on people on the forum? You won't like it if everyone put you on ignore, because that what will happen to you if you don't pull your head in and start posting worthwhile stuff.

"Pull you head in" is a good old New Zealand direct way of saying "stop being stupid by continuing to shoot yourself in the foot by posting stuff that better comes out of the backside of a horse!"

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Why don't you just contribute something worthwhile instead of pouring out abuse on people on the forum? You won't like it if everyone put you on ignore, because that what will happen to you if you don't pull your head in and start posting worthwhile stuff.

When there are stubborn people, they don't need reasoning but hard slaps to the head. The slaps, therefore, are useful

 

[Paul Christensen]

I speak the truth which means what I say is not my own by nature of the truth. So you just insulted God, great going!