The creation of Eve

[KBCid]

I asserted no such thing - you simply misunderstand [again].
And...it is not okay to counter one scripture against another. I quoted Jesus saying that his word "is spirit." My only assertion was that that is why we do not agree...because you are looking at the scriptures in word only, and not discerning them spiritually.
But if you want to go back and restate any points you have, I would be happy to discuss them with spiritual discernment.

No misunderstanding at all you do not read the words in your own words "You are reading the words, and I am not.".
If you are not reading the words and it is by words that God communicates with us then you have nothing of any value to contribute. You have shown again that you are not guided by the holy spirit / helper because the helpers mission as it is written in the words that you don't read;
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

See the holy spirit is a teacher of what you don't know and a reminder of the words that Christ spoke which of course were written down much of the time.
I would like to know how you can assert that I am not discerning spiritually? Do you think that my reference to Christ's words were intended by Christ to really mean his spiritual flesh and bones?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I have no problem discerning spiritually intended meaning. I also have no problem with believing the lord when he states and shows that he is not simply spirit but both flesh and bones that still bears the marks of the crucifixion.

I will not restate any of my points from a post that's only a few posts back. I have made all the relevant points that the spirit has put into my mind.

If you want to believe as Thomas did that the lord did not resurrect the body that he died in then you are just as surely denying that Christ has come in the flesh. We are dealing with very simple concepts here backed by a plethora of God's word and all I hear so far is denial.... denial of the plain word and denial of the spirit of that word.

 

[ScottA]

No misunderstanding at all you do not read the words in your own words "You are reading the words, and I am not.".

Before going further. Since you are not understanding me, I will explain:

When I said, "I am not reading the words." It is because we do not "read" in spirit, but "hear" and "see." But you, if you only read and do not hear or see, then we will not agree. And this much is apparent.

 

[KBCid]

y

Before going further. Since you are not understanding me, I will explain:

When I said, "I am not reading the words." It is because we do not "read" in spirit, but "hear" and "see." But you, if you only read and do not hear or see, then we will not agree. And this much is apparent.

Really? My entire OP is based on being able to go beyond the simplicity of the words you could read in Genesis to understand what the spirit shows is its higher meaning so, if you suddenly want to make a play for being able to hear and see what the spirit is saying and showing then by all means tell me, what does the spirit say or show you about God's higher meaning for why Eve was formed in the manner stated in Genesis?

I will repost this since it is from the beginning of this thread and it is the entire point of THIS THREAD;
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness....
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone...
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

There you go. If you want to play the "I see and hear only by the spirit" card here is your chance. God is giving us a message that can only be spiritually discerned when they created Eve.

If however, you cannot answer this then you can simply go back to not answering anything and just be an observer as you stated you would be when it was apparent you couldn't answer such questions upon your first attempt.

 

[bbyrd009]

yikes?

 

[ScottA]

y

Really? My entire OP is based on being able to go beyond the simplicity of the words you could read in Genesis to understand what the spirit shows is its higher meaning so, if you suddenly want to make a play for being able to hear and see what the spirit is saying and showing then by all means tell me, what does the spirit say or show you about God's higher meaning for why Eve was formed in the manner stated in Genesis?

I will repost this since it is from the beginning of this thread and it is the entire point of THIS THREAD;
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness....
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone...
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

There you go. If you want to play the "I see and hear only by the spirit" card here is your chance. God is giving us a message that can only be spiritually discerned when they created Eve.

If however, you cannot answer this then you can simply go back to not answering anything and just be an observer as you stated you would be when it was apparent you couldn't answer such questions upon your first attempt.

I have already answered...and it is you who plays a game. I will not be tempted. Satan, get behind me!

 

[KBCid]

I have already answered...and it is you who plays a game. I will not be tempted. Satan, get behind me!

I assumed that he was already behind you from the first interaction failure.
So please don't bother to post on this threads subject. You do not have the spiritually discerned answer and I am not going to give the correct answer. This thread is a test;

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You have already confessed that Christ is spirit only so you have failed the Christianity test.

 

[KBCid]

yikes?

Lol. what was to be expected?
Just in case you didn't grasp completely why ScottA has failed the Christianity test I will explain that which can be spiritually discerned but which should also be logically discerned.

If you were to read Christ's words here;

John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.

6Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9(They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

16Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). 17Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

24Now Thomas (also known as Didymusa ), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” 26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Mary was so happy to see Christ she did what most women do.... she tried to touch / hug him. So, notice what Christ says to her “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God". Christ would not be touched until he presented himself BODILY unblemished and pure before his Father. Ok? pretty clear right?
Now we scroll down the scripture to a week after Christ first visit where Doubting Thomas who said “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
and Christ says plainly “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” It is now ok to touch Christ because he has already presented himself to the Father and he has returned to his sheep.
Christ was still flesh and bone after he went to the Father and not a spirit and of course we have his own words to back up that discernment;

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

And just think this is supposed to be a milk rated understanding about Christ and the Father.

 

[bbyrd009]

Just in case you didn't grasp completely why ScottA has failed the Christianity test

that is a terrible thing to say about someone else just because they do not agree with you imo

I will explain that which can be spiritually discerned but which should also be logically discerned.

thanks anyway, no offense. But my explainer works fine

 

[KBCid]

that is a terrible thing to say about someone else just because they do not agree with you imo
thanks anyway, no offense. But my explainer works fine

So, you feel that we should not test the spirits? and if they fail should it not be stated as such?
Suppose that the same words were spoken to one of the apostles how would you suppose they would reply?

How do you feel about someone calling you satan when they don't agree with you

 

[bbyrd009]

So, you feel that we should not test the spirits?

wadr i don't think that means what you are trying to make it mean here, especially if it means that anyone who disagrees with you in all earnestness is nonetheless a target for your judgement. If you want to test a spirit, test the spirit in your signature perhaps. That is how one tests a spirit imo. (actually i feel you should be responding to the other part of the post tbh--the part you are ignoring right now)

How do you feel about someone calling you satan when they don't agree with you

bah, happens all the time, i don't pay it too much attention. Christ is Spirit i think, and i don't know, but if we are the Body of Christ i don't think Jesus can also still be embodied.

But it is just a working perspective, i certainly don't care if someone feels a literal Jesus is necessary for them to have faith; or prays to Jesus, for that matter. It isn't Scriptural to me, but then we are called to act from our own convictions, only.

 

[bbyrd009]

Just in case you didn't grasp completely why you have failed the Christianity test I will explain that which can be spiritually discerned but which should also be logically discerned.[/QUOTE] i mean how well would this be received by you?

this is what testing spirits means imo

 

[KBCid]

Just in case you didn't grasp completely why you have failed the Christianity test I will explain that which can be spiritually discerned but which should also be logically discerned.

i mean how well would this be received by you?
this is what testing spirits means imo[/QUOTE]

If I said that would be fine by me would you believe me?
As you have probably noticed by now I typically provide the scriptures that back what I am saying, if someone were to assert that I am wrong and provide the scriptural backing for how I am wrong then why should I be hateful toward them?
You are not happy with how I responded and we disagree on my method, I do not hold any hate and discontent with you because of this and I am fine with the simplicity of this interaction.

 

[bbyrd009]

So, you feel that we should not test the spirits? and if they fail should it not be stated as such?
Suppose that the same words were spoken to one of the apostles how would you suppose they would reply?

How do you feel about someone calling you satan when they don't agree with you

i think you have as much conviction in your position as anyone else does in theirs, me included, and notice how everyone has an interpretation of Scripture that they feels compels them to believe the way they do?

what other book can do this?

satan means adversary, as you well know; and i would like to suggest a definition of adversary based upon what we can observe in our forum interactions, which are not irl, and thus only the poorest measure of a man imo, a recitation of esoteric positions. Absolute statements about truth that are proved to be subjective when compared with other Scripture.

and it can be verified by the fact that you cannot state a single absolute doctrine or truth from Scripture.

the point being that with such a slight grasp of truth as we have, a mirror darkly, it is prolly better to not be failing anyone else as a Christian just out of self preservation lol. Even scientists can admit to only knowing <5% of what they know must exist ok

 

[ScottA]

I assumed that he was already behind you from the first interaction failure.
So please don't bother to post on this threads subject. You do not have the spiritually discerned answer and I am not going to give the correct answer. This thread is a test;

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You have already confessed that Christ is spirit only so you have failed the Christianity test.

You tempt the Lord God and show your own fear in one post, appearing to be an angel of light. But your time is limited. He who has an ear, let him hear.

 

[Helen]

Interesting huh?

I tend to think Paul is equating 'flesh' with the 'Old Man', we are called to overthrow......our ego is the ultimate idol if we allow it to rule over us. And it is a cruel overlord.

Amen to that! ( still endeavouring to get that job done! but I think it will be on my back until the end. )

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Notice carefully that in our english God is saying "come Noah AND all YOUR HOUSEHOLD into the ark".

I will not argue it. Of whose household are we?

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2 Cor. 5:1)

 

[KBCid]

i don't think that means what you are trying to make it mean here, especially if it means that anyone who disagrees with you in all earnestness is nonetheless a target for your judgement. If you want to test a spirit, test the spirit in your signature perhaps. That is how one tests a spirit imo..

According to scripture this is our instructions for what to do with those who cause divisions;

Rom.16:17-18: “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.”

divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. so how does one go about avoiding such a person on a internet site?
here is one of the things I said in #50 of this thread to ScottA;

"We should not get caught up in endless discussions. I am here to seek those who have the spirit of truth by asking a simple question. If you don't know the answer then it is not our time to connect."

simple and point blank. "We should not get caught up in endless discussions....it is not our time to connect"
Do you not agree that I followed the direction given from romans? I tried to end our interaction.
So where do we go when you clearly tell someone "it is not our time to connect" and they persist in connecting and also dishonor Christ and the biblical record by asserting Christ is simply a spirit?
virtually the word for word bible description of how to identify the spirit of anti-Christ.

actually i feel you should be responding to the other part of the post tbh--the part you are ignoring right now.

Could you quote what question I'm not answering pls.

bah, happens all the time, i don't pay it too much attention..

Lol. so it no big deal to call someone satan but it is not right to tell someone they are wrong and give them the scripture to back it.

Christ is Spirit i think, and i don't know, but if we are the Body of Christ i don't think Jesus can also still be embodied...
But it is just a working perspective, i certainly don't care if someone feels a literal Jesus is necessary for them to have faith; or prays to Jesus, for that matter. It isn't Scriptural to me, but then we are called to act from our own convictions, only.

Look at what Christ can do in his body of flesh even before his ascension;
John 1:46“Can anything good come from Nazareth?” Nathanael asked. “Come and see,” said Philip.
47When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, He said of him, “Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is no deceit.”
48“How do You know me?” Nathanael asked. Jesus replied, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the fig tree.”
49“Rabbi,” Nathanael answered, “You are the Son of God! You are King of Israel!”
50Jesus said to him, “Do you believe just because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than these.” 51Then He declared, “Truly, truly, I say to all of you that you will see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Cannot the Son of God inhabit a body of flesh and bone and also be within every saved believer.
I could also point out this scripture;
1 Tim 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

If the one mediator between man and God is a spirit then how does one rationalize the mediator being called a man? and no less than that man being Jesus Christ? You must admit that the scripture in multiple places points directly to Christ being a man and being our advocate with the father.

 

[KBCid]

I will not argue it. Of whose household are we?

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2 Cor. 5:1)

Was the earthy house of this tabernacle made with hands? no.
doesn't the body dissolve after death? yes.
aren't those who are saved going to be resurrected and be Just like Christ?
Christ told doubting Thomas in reference to his own body that a spirit does not possess flesh and bone.

So do we believe that Christ is spirit only or do we take Christ's word for it that a spirit is not just a spirit if they possess flesh and bone?

You will resurrect with a genetically relevant body however, it (your body) will be greatly improved and it will be inhabited by both Christ and the father as well as you.

 

[Helen]

I just wanted to say...I am following this thread closely ...even though not posting in it much .
Great and interesting thread.

 

[bbyrd009]

So where do we go when you clearly tell someone "it is not our time to connect" and they persist in connecting and also dishonor Christ and the biblical record by asserting Christ is simply a spirit?

well, just guessing here, you could examine this "clearly telling someone" anything, iow the position you put yourself in there, or you could even just go "ignore" if you wanted, how can one persist alone, without a reply?

I am assuming here that telling someone they are not a Christian would be taken as an insult, which i don't entirely get myself, as it seems to me that the first thing one should do if they seek Christ is to run from Christianity per se, but regardless.

You have stated your position @ "Jesus still embodied" from Scripture pretty clearly now, and while i personally do not agree with it, and suspect it even encourages Nehushtan worship, you obviously believe the pov is Scriptural, so what more is there to say? It might be at that point that we actually dishonor Christ the most!