The creation of Eve

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KBCid

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ok i do not mean "non-inspired story" or "fiction" or any of those things ok. It is as inspired as it gets imo; distilled, concentrated truth, learned over generations, and passed down in story form. The first 5 of the Decalogue are acknowledged to be much older than Moses, too. Probably pre-Hammurabi even.

Ah, I am corrected. Sorry for my error.

There are many theories about the Decalogue origin but, one must understand that in any society there will be laws to promote a peaceful existence. finding similarities in laws among other cultures that predated Moses should be expected.
When you question whether Moses was the first author of the Decalogue as written in scripture you would of necessity also be questioning the new testament and Christ's references to Moses as the author such as this one;
John 5:46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
 

bbyrd009

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Ah, I am corrected. Sorry for my error.

There are many theories about the Decalogue origin but, one must understand that in any society there will be laws to promote a peaceful existence. finding similarities in laws among other cultures that predated Moses should be expected.
When you question whether Moses was the first author of the Decalogue as written in scripture you would of necessity also be questioning the new testament and Christ's references to Moses as the author such as this one;
John 5:46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
hmm. Might seem that way, but i perceive Moses more as a type of Christ in that context anyway, and while i might hesitate to demand that any "truth" is being stated by me, it seems pretty compelling that Commandments 1-5 are about as old as Babylon. I don't think this invalidates Moses, even if maybe my understanding of "inspired" is a little different from yours right now. If anything, imo it kind of humanizes, or makes the concepts more accessible to all, or whatever.

after all, the Church is made up of those who do our Father's will; if that is true, then whomever made up 1-5 (surely arrived at by general consensus, over generations) were also "inspired" to do so, even though that is not how we are encouraged to define "inspired" today, we are told to look for magic tricks there i guess.
 

VictoryinJesus

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A small note I can pass on here is that the translation of tsela to mean rib is an error. In most every other place it is used tsela means side. You can see this in the reference given in Strong's concordance here; Strong's Hebrew: 6763. צְלָעֹת (tsela) -- rib, side
Thank you. Very interesting.

Obviously, I don't have the answer to your question and I am reaching. Understanding flesh is important to me right now since the Spirit is revealing things pertaining to fleshhooks, the leviathan, and dragons. Scripture says Man and beast of the field and fowls of the air were made from the ground. And Adam received the breath of life and became a living soul. Yet beast and fowls have the breath of life also. Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

I get that the first Adam was male and female and that "she" the female part was taken out of Adam's (side/abdominal chamber), shaped and then brought to Adam as a helpmeet. It is the word "instead" that keeps throwing me. Is the word "instead" in the original Hebrew text or is it "beneath"? Instead means something different: for example: Genesis 4:5 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

We do not know what the creation and the garden looked like before the serpent and sin entered. Scripture says "flesh and bone" inherit the Kingdom. Flesh and blood do not. Flesh must have been "it is good" before sin. Otherwise it(flesh) would have not been in the garden. Why does Job say "Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews." Why both skin and flesh? What is flesh? Since it (flesh) along with bone inherits the kingdom. Scriptures says (after sin) life is not in the flesh, life is in the blood. Christ's blood.

Why does God say "And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years."


I have prayed over these questions and, strangely, the Spirit gave John 1:14 as the answer: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word (the Lord) became flesh for us.
How does this fit the (type) of Adam (the first)

Why did Satan want Moses bones? Why was meat(flesh) not eaten until after Noah(right before God) entered the Ark? (Genesis 9: 2-4)
Why was it only green herb eaten before Noah entered the ark and the flood waters came destroying all flesh that was not within the ark? Why does scripture say "Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness? (Psalm 74: 14) and (Isaiah 27: 1) In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish the leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he (the LORD) shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

I am sorry. You seem to already have the answers. Or say you do.
 
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KBCid

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The creation of Eve was an aside, as is the world.

I'm surprised to see you denigrate such an important part of God's creation. I know that such a reality is not the case.
 

ScottA

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I'm surprised to see you denigrate such an important part of God's creation. I know that such a reality is not the case.
No denigration intended. Just the measure that God has place upon it: "fallen", "lower", "lost", etc., not to be confused with any declaration of His glory...heaven forbid, the image of manifestation is not equal to or greater than that which is on high.

How do you know?
 

KBCid

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No denigration intended. Just the measure that God has place upon it: "fallen", "lower", "lost", etc., not to be confused with any declaration of His glory...heaven forbid, the image of manifestation is not equal to or greater than that which is on high.
How do you know?

What God created was not fallen or lower or lost when it occurred.
Your insinuation here is that God did not create perfection.
Do you believe that God would inhabit a less than perfect temple?
The body of man was created to be the temple of both our spirit and God's and at its inception man was perfect and God dwelled within them.

How do I know? Because If man was not created perfect then he could never attain to this command;
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Nor could Abram have attained the command in his time;
Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Nor the Israelites in their time;
Deut 18:13 You shall be perfect with the LORD your God.

God is love and he will not demand what is impossible to achieve and he made these statements in both the old and new testaments so, if you wish to assert that anything or body that God made through Christ was less than perfection then you are denying God's perfection.
 

KBCid

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Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Here is an interesting point that I was given understanding of and since you have referenced Noah's ark I can pass on this truth and
at the same time you will be able to see just how powerfull God's veil is over the minds of men.
You know how the world / man has interpreted the ark story about the animals to mean that every animal type in existence was stuffed into the
ark right? You would actually be hard pressed to find anyone who does not interpret those scriptures to have that meaning.
I will provide the reference scriptures that go along with the one you referenced so you can see what I will be talking about;

Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of
every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his
female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 For yet seven
days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy
from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

At the beginning of God's interaction with Noah you will notice that God specifically states "Come thou and all thy house into the ark".
Notice carefully that in our english God is saying "come Noah AND all YOUR HOUSEHOLD into the ark". God did not reference the worlds
assortment of animals. God defined specifically that it was Noah and anything contained within or inclusive of his household that would be
gathered in the ark. Since no one alive or dead has provided any information about the extent of Noah's animal ownership we can safely assume
that God provided the proper space within the design of the ark to contain those clean and unclean animals that Noah personally owned.
Now does this make sense to you or do you feel an overpowering urge to deny what I am saying?
 

Dcopymope

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Can anyone provide an answer for why Eve was created in the manner that is written in Genesis.

If I was God, the assurance that the human race can reproduce after their own kind would be one good reason, DNA. Another good reason, is in knowing that the rib can actually regenerate on its own like the tail of a salamander after a few months. This has been known for a long time and is also why the rib bone is often used in cranial surgery. God could have regenerated his rib himself, but the fact that he chose to use the one bone he obviously would have known would naturally regenerate is definitely more than a mere coincidence.

Source: We can regenerate! Researchers reveal our ribs regrow if damaged - and say the same could be true for our entire skeleton | Daily Mail Online
 

ScottA

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What God created was not fallen or lower or lost when it occurred.
Your insinuation here is that God did not create perfection.
Do you believe that God would inhabit a less than perfect temple?
The body of man was created to be the temple of both our spirit and God's and at its inception man was perfect and God dwelled within them.
You are leaving out "the rest of the story." Even so, the fall was "in the beginning", and the rest of history (His story) is about the need for salvation from our wicked selves. Granted, the overall plan of God is perfect...in spite of our downfall, and the fact that we are not perfect.

As for God inhabiting a less than perfect temple: He does not. But that is not to say we are perfect, but rather that we are a new creation - but not in the flesh, only in the spirit. The temple that is being built, is spirit, and not in the world, but in the kingdom.
How do I know? Because If man was not created perfect then he could never attain to this command;
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Nor could Abram have attained the command in his time;
Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Nor the Israelites in their time;
Deut 18:13 You shall be perfect with the LORD your God.

God is love and he will not demand what is impossible to achieve and he made these statements in both the old and new testaments so, if you wish to assert that anything or body that God made through Christ was less than perfection then you are denying God's perfection.
What is impossible among men, is possible with God. But you have not represented the means by which we, or Abraham, or Israel, shall be perfect: that is "in Christ" having been "born again of the spirit of God."

"The flesh profits nothing."
 
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bbyrd009

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The creation of Eve was an aside, as is the world.
but it is also intrinsic; i mean you can't ignore the personal lessons available by interpreting A&E (bearing murder as a firstborn son, etc) as reflections of our divided nature imo. And "the world" as just the result of that.
 

ScottA

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but it is also intrinsic; i mean you can't ignore the personal lessons available by interpreting A&E (bearing murder as a firstborn son, etc) as reflections of our divided nature imo. And "the world" as just the result of that.
Nonetheless, the world is removed from God, not of the kingdom...a creation sent outside, put away. It is then up to the Husband to come for her.
 
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KBCid

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We do not know what the creation and the garden looked like before the serpent and sin entered. Scripture says "flesh and bone"
inherit the Kingdom. Flesh and blood do not. Flesh must have been "it is good" before sin. Otherwise it(flesh) would have not been
in the garden. Why does Job say "Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews." Why both skin
and flesh? What is flesh? Since it (flesh) along with bone inherits the kingdom. Scriptures says (after sin) life is not in the
flesh, life is in the blood. Christ's blood.
I am sorry. You seem to already have the answers. Or say you do.

In the beginning man existed in a perfect state just as his perfect creator made him. When sin entered the world the indwelling spirit of God left man and without that protection from corruption the flesh began to have errors that were passed on through reproduction. To this day our physical fleshly bodies suffer from a plethora of infirmities that are genetic defects amassed from thousands of years of the absence of God's healing / correcting presence.
When Christ came he was born of a woman who carried those same forms of fleshly errors as anyone else did and when he died his body suffered the same loss as any other man however, Christ was given the power by The Father to resurrect his body and change it from its defective genetic state to what it would have been had sin never occurred. This is why Mary and the apostles didn't immediately recognize him. His fleshly corrupt body had been resurrected into the body of flesh that God had intended it to be from the beginning.
When the chosen are resurrected they too will have their bodies changed into this same incorruptible state insured by the presence of God and Christ indwelling it.

As for me having answers..... I have prayed to be given understanding of God's word and I asked for that understanding to begin where his word does so that I might obey the direction of Christ to live by every word of the mouth of God but, as has been stated we are given line upon line bit by bit as we grow in knowledge about him. I have some very precious pearls that he has given me but there is much that I must still learn that has not yet been revealed.
I have nothing that you cannot have if you have a desire to turn from evil and a desire to learn the ways of God and pray to have him help you not only to gain understanding but to also fight the fleshly desires that satan assaults you with. You were created by the perfect God to be his image... you are minimally a god as it is written and God would love to have you become another of his sons.
 

KBCid

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As for God inhabiting a less than perfect temple: He does not. But that is not to say we are perfect, but rather that we are a new creation - but not in the flesh, only in the spirit. The temple that is being built, is spirit, and not in the world, but in the kingdom.that is "in Christ".... having been "born again of the spirit of God." "The flesh profits nothing."

Then you deny that Christ was resurrected as both flesh and spirit.
 
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Dcopymope

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Then you deny that Christ was resurrected as both flesh and spirit.

I agree, I don't recall scripture ever stating that our glorified bodies will be pure spirit. The flesh being made new by the spirit is how Paul actually described it. He said that our corruptible flesh will be made incorruptible by the spirit. Did the resurrected flesh of Jesus Christ "profit nothing"? What kind of half anused doctrine is this?
 

KBCid

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I agree, I don't recall scripture ever stating that our glorified bodies will be pure spirit. The flesh being made new by the spirit is how Paul actually described it. He said that our corruptible flesh will be made incorruptible by the spirit. Did the resurrected flesh of Jesus Christ "profit nothing"? What kind of half anused doctrine is this?

The traditions of man just keep on popping up and logic just seems to be falling away right along with the pure intent of God's word.
 
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bbyrd009

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Nonetheless, the world is removed from God, not of the kingdom...a creation sent outside, put away. It is then up to the Husband to come for her.
and at the same time we are the world, and believing that God loves you more for some reason than anything else in creation is dangerous and self centered imo
 
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KBCid

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As for God inhabiting a less than perfect temple: He does not. But that is not to say we are perfect, but rather that we are a new creation - but not in the flesh, only in the spirit. The temple that is being built, is spirit, and not in the world, but in the kingdom. "The flesh profits nothing."

I thought it may be wise to let Christ speak for himself about his flesh that you believe he doesn't have.

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them
.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

John 20:24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymusa], one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

This subject you have stumbled with is a very serious one. You have first belittled the importance of Eves creation and then you have erred in reference to one of the cornerstone understandings about Christ. I think you should re-examine the foundations of your understanding about God's word;

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
 
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ScottA

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Then you deny that Christ was resurrected as both flesh and spirit.
Absolutely! He is risen...meaning, transcended from the flesh to be the same as God the Father: God is spirit. But do not think of that as less, but more. Because, God is fully capable to manifest in any form...but to lower Himself again - never!
 
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aspen

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Absolutely! He is risen...meaning, transcended from the flesh to be the same as God the Father: God is spirit. But do not think of that as less, but more. Because, God is fully capable to manifest in any form...but to lower Himself again - never!

Jesus still has a body. He didn't escape his flesh - this is a gnostic concept