The Day of The Lord, Wrong Timing Applied

[Earburner]

I understand Amil wanting to hijack Revelation 20:4 and call it something it is not.

The first resurrection, first death, and first birth are all physical. One has to physically exist to be part of reality. The second birth, second death are spiritual, of a spiritual nature.

This Amil view of Revelation 20 that does away with a future reign of Christ on earth, and declares it indefinite instead of literal, has nothing to do with Pentecost, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Those resurrected in Revelation 20:4 were physically beheaded, not spiritually beheaded. Their resurrection was physical back to a physical body with a head attached. The first resurrection of Jesus was physical, from a physical tomb, then Jesus ascended physically with the OT redeemed. Then Jesus appeared to many that same day. Later Jesus again physically ascended into heaven. The place we cannot see because we are spiritually blind, even though spiritually born of the Holy Spirit. We still have to crucify Adam's nature on a daily basis, because we have a temporal corruptible physical body.

Unless you plan on being beheaded instead of taking the mark of the beast, Revelation 20:4 has nothing whatsoever to do with you. And those humans are the blessed ones. Once you are physically changed out of this corruption into incorruption, you will be blessed as well.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment [of Eternal Life] was given unto them
[1 John 5:12-13].....
A vision of the Age of God's Grace (aka the Church age), being all the Saints during:
1. Jesus First coming in flesh,
2. His Second Coming in the Spirit,
3. His Third coming in Immortality and flaming fire.

......and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded [martyred] for the testimony of Jesus, and [martyred] for the word of God, and [martyred] such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a [figurative] thousand years. 1 Peter 2:5-10
[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The Church, during all three of Jesus' comings:
1. The Early church,
2. The Reformation church,
3. The End time church.
All the Saints, during the length of their life times, reigned WITH Christ, as ambassadors in His stead, during the Age of God's Grace, the figurative 1000 years.

 

[Timtofly]

And there you are, trying to explain a physical 1000 year KoG on earth to come, while throwing away the Day of Pentecost, the KoG (Jesus Himself), who is STILL Coming to us, without observation, during God's Age of Grace.

Because God is going to demonstrate the Day of The Lord as how perfect it can be. Humans without sin reigning over their families as they should have done in the Garden of Eden. You know, Adam's family on earth, without sin, death, nor decay?

 

[Earburner]

Because God is going to demonstrate the Day of The Lord as how perfect it can be. Humans without sin reigning over their families as they should have done in the Garden of Eden. You know, Adam's family on earth, without sin, death, nor decay?

I am going to be very direct. Though the NWO is attempting to remodel and refurbish this old global earth, it will never happen, even if Jesus came to be here for another 1000 years. Why?
Biblical prophesy says it is going to be destroyed and dissolved.

Nor shall there be a NEW global earth to take it's place. Why?
We, who are NEW creatures, are the NEW Earth, and Jesus Himself is our NEW Heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

I am going to be very direct. Though the NWO is attempting to remodel and refurbish this old global earth, it will never happen, even if Jesus came to be here for another 1000 years. Why?
Biblical prophesy says it is going to be destroyed and dissolved.

Nor shall there be a NEW global earth to take it's place. Why?
We, who are NEW creatures, are the NEW Earth, and Jesus Himself is our NEW Heaven.

That is all great metaphysically.

Jesus will create a new earth and the angels will return as a new set of stars in the sky, but to deny this current reality has 1,000 years left, is about the same as those living in 22 BC denying Jesus would come and set up a NT church. We are still on earth 2000 years later.

Jesus will still be reigning on earth 1,000 years from now, despite the naysayers.

 

[Earburner]

You point out the difference between the spiritual and physical, and then turn around and cannot apply that understanding?

The coming of the Holy Spirit is spiritual.

The first coming and second coming are physical.

Is Jesus physically inside of you?

Whether you realize it or not, you just agreed with me and Jesus.
Your words, (biblically corrected):
"The (second) coming of the Holy Spirit is spiritual.
Luke 17:20
The first coming and (third) coming are physical."

Luke 17:20 sets the correct order of the Lord's "comings", of which pharisaical church-inanity has NO understanding of whatsoever, nor do they want to. Pentecost is just a past historical event to them.

Pharisaical church-ianity (the tares) wants to avoid and ignore the TRUE second coming, and therefore loves to preach/teach the historical Jesus,** causing their congregations to follow after THEIR order, of how to worship God. They all have some sort of outward show of religious processions and dogma to follow, thinking that they are "following" Jesus by "doing" such things.
John 4[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
** 1 Corinthians 2:5.
EDIT: maybe by the following words of Jesus, it will give you a better understanding of what has been going on and is going on, with the visible churches, aka "church-ianity":
KJV Matthew 24[5] For many shall come in my name, saying, [that] I am [the] Christ; and shall deceive many.
YES! The deception is that close, as the parable of "the wheat and the tares" so aptly describes.
We need not worry about the few, who say that they themselves ARE the Christ. They are plain as day, and are well known of.

 

[Earburner]

That is all great metaphysically.

Jesus will create a new earth and the angels will return as a new set of stars in the sky, but to deny this current reality has 1,000 years left, is about the same as those living in 22 BC denying Jesus would come and set up a NT church. We are still on earth 2000 years later.

Jesus will still be reigning on earth 1,000 years from now, despite the naysayers.

Jesus, Paul and Peter are "naysayers".
Since that really is the case, their testimony alone, should tell us that WE should not follow after "church-ianity's" "guidance" and their scholarly Bible College teachings. 1 Corinthians 5:2.
John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is COME, he will guide you into ALL truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Therefore, only through the mind of Christ within us, will anyone understand what Jesus means (His interpretation) of KJV Revelation 20[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Timtofly]

Whether you realize it or not, you just agreed with me and Jesus.
Your words, (biblically corrected):
"The (second) coming of the Holy Spirit is spiritual.
Luke 17:20
The first coming and (third) coming are physical."

Luke 17:20 sets the correct order of the Lord's "comings", of which pharisaical church-inanity has NO understanding of whatsoever, nor do they want to. Pentecost is just a past historical event to them.

Pharisaical church-ianity (the tares) wants to avoid and ignore the TRUE second coming, and therefore loves to preach/teach the historical Jesus,** causing their congregations to follow after THEIR order, of how to worship God. They all have some sort of outward show of religious processions and dogma to follow, thinking that they are "following" Jesus by "doing" such things.
John 4[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
** 1 Corinthians 2:5.
EDIT: maybe by the following words of Jesus, it will give you a better understanding of what has been going on and is going on, with the visible churches, aka "church-ianity":
KJV Matthew 24[5] For many shall come in my name, saying, [that] I am [the] Christ; and shall deceive many.
YES! The deception is that close, as the parable of "the wheat and the tares" so aptly describes.
We need not worry about the few, who say that they themselves ARE the Christ. They are plain as day, and are well known of.

The first coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentacost is not the Second Coming of Jesus in the physical to the Mount of Olives.

I already pointed out there were way more appearances on earth of the Lord, than just your limited 3.

You are the one claiming the coming of the Holy Spirit is a coming of Christ. That verse applies to your claims more than my claims. I am not here to point out all the false claims of humanity for the last 6,000 years about claims of gods on earth.

Jesus, Paul and Peter are "naysayers".

You are going to have to prove these 3 deny Jesus will be ruling on earth 1,000 years from now. All I see is plenty of online posters denying that point. Do they have accounts on this forum?

 

[Earburner]

The first coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentacost is not the Second Coming of Jesus in the physical to the Mount of Olives.

I already pointed out there were way more appearances on earth of the Lord, than just your limited 3.

You are the one claiming the coming of the Holy Spirit is a coming of Christ. That verse applies to your claims more than my claims. I am not here to point out all the false claims of humanity for the last 6,000 years about claims of gods on earth.


You are going to have to prove these 3 deny Jesus will be ruling on earth 1,000 years from now. All I see is plenty of online posters denying that point. Do they have accounts on this forum?

Just in this thread alone, I have shown numerous times, that NONE of the Gospels or Epistles prove anything of a literal 1000 year reign of the KoG ON the earth, AFTER Jesus is revealed from heaven, in all His Glory of immortality.

 

[Earburner]

The first coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentacost is not the Second Coming of Jesus in the physical to the Mount of Olives.

When Jesus was in the flesh, during His first coming, was God the Father in Him, doing the works?
Who did you think that the Holy Spirit is???
It most certainly and truly is Jesus' second coming.
John 14[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
It's God the Father and God the Son, together as One, just as they were before the creation of the world. Proverbs 8:22-32, John 14:23-24.

The Holy Spirit is NOT an additional Being of God, but rather the Godhead of God the Father and God the Son, in their original relationship, that man had never known of before, at all. John 17:5.
Together, they are the Holy Spirit.

 

[Earburner]

Are these two verses saying the same thing, or something different:
John.14[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Heb.13[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
> I see it as meaning the same thing.

 

[Timtofly]

Just in this thread alone, I have shown numerous times, that NONE of the Gospels or Epistles prove anything of a literal 1000 year reign of the KoG ON the earth, AFTER Jesus is revealed from heaven, in all His Glory of immortality.

None of the Gospels pointed out the church would still be here 1992 years after the Cross.

Not sure what your point is. Has it been 1992 years since the Cross?

 

[Earburner]

None of the Gospels pointed out the church would still be here 1992 years after the Cross.

Not sure what your point is. Has it been 1992 years since the Cross?

It's called the Age of God's Grace, the figurative 1000 years. There is nothing that will stop it's duration, except when the time comes that people no longer repent torwards God through Jesus. There is only one biblical event that will cause that, "The mark of the beast".
That is why Jesus said only His Father has the knowledge of when the end of the world would come for His Glorious return. It's only by God's Grace that the world and the earth continues to exist.
2Pet.3[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; [Joel 3:14 says that Day is near [always] in [during] the valley of decision [the Age of God's Grace] > because, He will cut short those days,....and now you know why it is that He will cut them short. Romans 9:28.

in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Timtofly]

It's called the Age of God's Grace, the figurative 1000 years. There is nothing that will stop it's duration, except when the time comes that people no longer repent torwards God through Jesus. There is only one biblical event that will cause that, "The mark of the beast".
That is why Jesus said only His Father has the knowledge of when the end of the world would come for His Glorious return. It's only by God's Grace that the world and the earth continues to exist.
2Pet.3[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; [Joel 3:14 says that Day is near [always] in [during] the valley of decision [the Age of God's Grace] > because, He will cut short those days,....and now you know why it is that He will cut them short. Romans 9:28.

in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

And Peter just explained what a day was with the Lord, yet you refuse the Day of the Lord according to Peter.

 

[Earburner]

And Peter just explained what a day was with the Lord, yet you refuse the Day of the Lord according to Peter.

And your thinking is?......1000 years equals exactly one day to God. Wrong!
You need to look at the KJV wording from the perspective of God's eternity.
2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one [earth] day is with the Lord AS [like] a thousand years, and a thousand years [is] AS [like] one [earth] day [with the Lord].
When you can correctly analyze those two concepts of time, in comparison to each other, you will realize that all that is being said there, is that God equates time from His eternity through a different principal, and not as we do through our mortality of life.

Iows, how He accounts time, is not according to a 24 hour earth day, and therefore is indeed relative to His Age of Grace, as shown in verse 9.
Indirectly, He is telling us that His Age of Grace has NO time limit on it, but there will be an end to it, which is based on the principal of man's repentance towards Him. Isaiah 55:8-9.
2 Peter 3
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness [wasting time]; but is longsuffering [purposely patient] to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
EDIT:
I repeat: There is only one biblical event that will cause the end of God's Age of Grace, "The mark of the beast".
Revelation 13[16] And he causeth ALL [people], both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

God's reaction to THAT event, is that it determines for Him that His Age of Grace has ended, and therefore He shall send Jesus on His third and final coming in flaming [blazing] fire.
Revelation 14[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,
If any man worship [be in compliance with] the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture [undiluted] into the cup of his indignation [anger, vengeance]; and he [the unsaved-Rom.8:9] shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence [visual sight] of the holy angels, and in the presence [visual sight] of the Lamb:

 

[Timtofly]

And your thinking is?......1000 years equals exactly one day to God. Wrong!
You need to look at the KJV wording from the perspective of God's eternity.
2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one [earth] day is with the Lord AS [like] a thousand years, and a thousand years [is] AS [like] one [earth] day [with the Lord].
When you can correctly analyze those two concepts of time, in comparison to each other, you will realize that all that is being said there, is that God equates time from His eternity through a different principal, and not as we do through our mortality of life.

Iows, how He accounts time, is not according to a 24 hour earth day, which is indeed relative to His Age of Grace, as shown in verse 9.
Indirectly, He is telling us that His Age of Grace has NO time limit on it, but there will be an end to it, which is based on the principal of man's repentance towards Him. Isaiah 55:8-9.
2 Peter 3
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness [wasting time]; but is longsuffering [purposely patient] to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
EDIT:
I repeat: There is only one biblical event that will cause the end of God's Age of Grace, "The mark of the beast".
Revelation 13[16] And he causeth ALL [people], both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

God's reaction to THAT event, is that it determines for Him that His Age of Grace has ended, and therefore He shall send Jesus on His third and final coming in flaming fire.
Revelation 14[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,
If any man worship [be in compliance with] the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

But you have to add your bias to get it to fit. A day with the Lord is a symbolic time frame, not your biased 24 hour day.

The Day of the Lord is His 1,000 year rule on earth.

 

[Earburner]

But you have to add your bias to get it to fit. A day with the Lord is a symbolic time frame, not your biased 24 hour day.

The Day of the Lord is His 1,000 year rule on earth.

My "bias"??
I provided scripture with correct interpretations, with additional scriptures that thoroughly support it.
All of 2 Peter 3:8 is in direct relation to 3:9
Figuratively, no one can explain how a 24 hour earth day is like that of a 1000 earth years to the Lord, but one can figuratively explain how 1000 earth years is like that of a 24 hour earth day, to the Lord.
The whole understanding is a conundrum, purposely illustrated to not make sense to our fleshly mind, so that instead, we might perceive the meaning through the mind of Christ, according to Isaiah 55:8-9, John 16:13 and Zechariah 4:6.
The meaning of 2 Peter 3:8-9 is found in Joel 3:14.
We all are now, and have been, "in the valley of decision", aka the figurative 1000 years of God's Age of Grace through Jesus, of which has an abrupt end by His determination, through the lack of man's ability to repent towards God any longer.
The mark of the beast shall SURELY bring that about.

 

[Earburner]

If you look closely, you will see that the "a day/1000 year" conundrum has to do with this present Age of God's Grace, since Pentecost. Any other application is speculation.
So instead of flipping the truth of it, to make Revelation 20:2-9 into a doctrine of men, apply it to Revelation 20:2-9, just exactly how it is delivered in 2 Peter 3:8-9, and then, by the power of His resurrection (the very First), let the Lord bring it to you by His mind that is within you. John 16:13

 

[Timtofly]

My "bias"??
I provided scripture with correct interpretations, with additional scriptures that thoroughly support it.
All of 2 Peter 3:8 is in direct relation to 3:9
Figuratively, no one can explain how a 24 hour earth day is like that of a 1000 earth years to the Lord, but one can figuratively explain how 1000 earth years is like that of a 24 hour earth day, to the Lord.
The whole understanding is a conundrum, purposely illustrated to not make sense to our fleshly mind, so that instead, we might perceive the meaning through the mind of Christ, according to Isaiah 55:8-9, John 16:13 and Zechariah 4:6.
The meaning of 2 Peter 3:8-9 is found in Joel 3:14.
We all are now, and have been, "in the valley of decision", aka the figurative 1000 years of God's Age of Grace through Jesus, of which has an abrupt end by His determination, through the lack of man's ability to repent towards God any longer.
The mark of the beast shall SURELY bring that about.

You have not proven from Scripture we are in a figurative indefinite 1,000 year period. One may as well claim we are in the second day of the Lord since the Cross, 1992 years. At least that would make more sense. At 2030 we would start the 3rd Day of the Lord.

Saying this makes no sense:

no one can explain how a 24 hour earth day is like that of a 1000 earth years to the Lord,

The whole understanding is a conundrum, purposely illustrated to not make sense to our fleshly mind

No one is supposed to be comparing a literal day to a literal millennium. The figurative part is "Day with the Lord" or "the Lords Day". That is the whole point.

The first six days of creation were literal days, then there was a Lord's Day. Earth was allowed to operate as created for 1,000 years.

Then in Exodus 20, God told Moses humans were to work 6 days, but the 7th was a day of rest. It has been almost 6 Lord's Days since Adam disobeyed and was told to till the ground by the sweat of his brow, labor.

So Amil have a bias that it is only an indefinite 1,000 time frame between 2 advents. A made up belief. Some people see time as a series of Lord's Days, and that each one will last 1,000 years. I am not saying Genesis 1 is figurative and should be another 6,000 years of time. God pointed out that He took 6 literal 24 hour days to create everything, and that He would not punish Adam's offspring longer than 6 of His Lord's Days.

You may think you have the mind of Christ with your "indefinite", but God is not about being indefinite as some are opinioned.

Joel 3:14

"Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision."

The Day of the Lord will start after this Second Coming chapter. The reign of Christ the King will last 1,000 years after that valley of decision. There is nothing in Joel about an indefinite time frame.

There will be no repentance available after the 6th Seal, Second Coming event.

 

[Earburner]

You have not proven from Scripture we are in a figurative indefinite 1,000 year period. One may as well claim we are in the second day of the Lord since the Cross, 1992 years. At least that would make more sense. At 2030 we would start the 3rd Day of the Lord.

Saying this makes no sense:


No one is supposed to be comparing a literal day to a literal millennium. The figurative part is "Day with the Lord" or "the Lords Day". That is the whole point.

The first six days of creation were literal days, then there was a Lord's Day. Earth was allowed to operate as created for 1,000 years.

Then in Exodus 20, God told Moses humans were to work 6 days, but the 7th was a day of rest. It has been almost 6 Lord's Days since Adam disobeyed and was told to till the ground by the sweat of his brow, labor.

So Amil have a bias that it is only an indefinite 1,000 time frame between 2 advents. A made up belief. Some people see time as a series of Lord's Days, and that each one will last 1,000 years. I am not saying Genesis 1 is figurative and should be another 6,000 years of time. God pointed out that He took 6 literal 24 hour days to create everything, and that He would not punish Adam's offspring longer than 6 of His Lord's Days.

You may think you have the mind of Christ with your "indefinite", but God is not about being indefinite as some are opinioned.

Joel 3:14

"Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision."

The Day of the Lord will start after this Second Coming chapter. The reign of Christ the King will last 1,000 years after that valley of decision. There is nothing in Joel about an indefinite time frame.

There will be no repentance available after the 6th Seal, Second Coming event.

The Age of God's Grace is a figurative 1000 year space of time, being open ended from the Day of Pentecost (actual second coming, without visual observation), UNTIL God the Father ALONE ends His Age of Grace. That will come to pass when "the mark of the beast" is implemented and mandated to all people, on a global scale.
2 Peter 3:8-9, Matthew 24:35-37.

"The Day of the Lord" begins** on Jesus third coming in flaming fire from Heaven. Romans 9:28
That Day is a simultaneous event. Luke 17:28-30.
1. for the Redemption of all His Saints,
2. and the destruction of all the unsaved.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

**EDIT: Sorry, let me clarify: the Day of the Lord begins and ENDS on Jesus' third coming in flaming fire from heaven.

 

[Earburner]

Let me share how much "church-ianity" is off course.
Here is a copy of my understanding of the Lord's Transfiguration, from the thread: "Who can give an answer?". Mark 9:1-8.
1. 500 years+/- had passed upto Jesus' first appearance.

2. Making images of people was against the 2nd commandment, therefore the three disciples had no visual memory of what Moses or Elijah looked like.

3. Malachi 3:16 explains that those who died, and were of faith from out of Israel, had their names written in "a book of Remembrance" before God. All of such were still waiting for "The Promise" of Eternal Life. They are figuratively seen in Revelation 6:9-11.

4. It would have been impossible for Moses and Elijah to appear alive, because no one could be living after death until after Jesus' first resurrection. Only He is the firstborn from the dead.

5. Jesus said in John.1[51] And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

My conclusion: in the transfiguration of Jesus, the disciples saw two angels talking with Jesus.