ScottA
Well-Known Member
KJV or NKJV...but there is much more that is written regarding the flesh (which is of the elements of the earth, and is to be dissolved).
The Day of The Lord, Wrong Timing Applied
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
^ The Sacrifice of Jesus, who was/is Eternal with the Father, before He was made to be flesh, is greater than any of us can fully understand.
Not only do we need Christ's sacrifice for the removal of our sin, but also our salvation and redemption from eternal death, but the Father also, who is a Spirit only, needed Him as such.
For without Jesus' sacrifice, God the Father, who is Holy above every name, cannot permanently dwell within us who are sinful.
Therefore, before the beginning of Creation, God the Father "brought forth Jesus" from out of Himself, whereby both agreed that Jesus was to be the Lamb of God, who is "the express [exact] image" of the Father. Hebrews 1:3. "I and my Father are one."
Not only do we need Christ's sacrifice for the removal of our sin, but also our salvation and redemption from eternal death, but the Father also, who is a Spirit only, needed Him as such.
For without Jesus' sacrifice, God the Father, who is Holy above every name, cannot permanently dwell within us who are sinful.
Therefore, before the beginning of Creation, God the Father "brought forth Jesus" from out of Himself, whereby both agreed that Jesus was to be the Lamb of God, who is "the express [exact] image" of the Father. Hebrews 1:3. "I and my Father are one."
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you just change the phenomenon of the fulness of the Gentiles to a coming of the Holy Spirit. Still not a coming of Christ.
The fulness of the Gentiles is the redemptive work of the Holy Spirit. Some would say to the whole world with no differential between Jew and Gentile. I am still not sure why you are fixated on 3 comings.
Jesus came once as Messiah. Jesus will come as King at the Second Coming. Daniel 9:25-26
Earburner
Well-Known Member
I can understand that concept, but I can't agree with it, because when Jesus comes from Heaven in flaming fire, in that same day, in a twinkling of an eye, we shall be changed, and be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, while the earth and the unsaved are being burned up in the LoF.
Luke 17:28-30, 1 Corinthians 52-52, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
So, for our immortality, our argument of what we will be changed into, is either going to be Spirit only, or both Spirit with flesh and bone.
Scripture reveals that Jesus Ascended into Heaven physically, having the ability to be both spirit and flesh and bone at will, and shall return in like manner.
I don't see it any other way.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
Is it not a coming of the Lord, to each who are born again of His Holy Spirit, whereby both the Father and the Son come INTO us, and permanently make their living place (abode) within us? John 14:23.
Either He has come unto you, or He has not yet come unto you, but if He has come, did you invite Him in? Revelation 3:20.
But, if you have NOT, then the latter part of Romans 8:8-9 will be applied to your situation, for not inviting Him into you, in the day when He did come to you.
As to the Jews, in Jesus' First coming, Jesus told them that their house was left unto them desolate, because they did not know the TIME of their visitation. (His coming).
Now, if you, I or anyone, have NOT heeded the coming of Jesus to us individually, we also will have NOT known the day of our visitation (His coming) to us also.
But, If you did invite Him in, then the KoG/KoH has come to you and into you, without your visual observation! Luke 27:20.
So, in conclusion:
If you have been given "the Comforter", then Jesus did come to you, and is now fulfilling His promise within you. John 14:8
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
You point out the difference between the spiritual and physical, and then turn around and cannot apply that understanding?
The coming of the Holy Spirit is spiritual.
The first coming and second coming are physical.
Is Jesus physically inside of you?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Do you also then not see us as being "crucified with Christ"...because that experience has not been fulfilled with you hanging on a cross?
At this point in time such a belief would be ridiculous...but it is no different, and what you do not now see is only "reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men"...that is, "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." For this same reason "blindness in part has [also] happened to Israel." All of which is past tense with the passing of the Last...whom was and is Christ. But I speak of heavenly things rather than worldly.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I recommend loosening that grip on the flesh, for what is instore is greater than what men have only imagined.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
No, He is not physically within me. And yes, I was spiritually crucified with Christ, and now that I have also spiritually risen with Christ, by being born again of His Holy Spirit, I am blessed, by having part in the first resurrection now, who is Christ. Revelation 20:5-6.
BUT,.....physically I am still in my mortal and corrupted body of flesh and blood, whereby at the moment, I can only be a partaker of the divine nature, being that of the first resurrection, who is Christ, in whom I am now having part in.
The fulness of my resurrection CANNOT take place, until He physically and visibly returns from Heaven.
Therefore, during God's Age of Grace, Jesus Himself is the fulfillment of His own words, of we who are now taking part in: "I am the resurrection", "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation".
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Now you are conflating the first resurrection, physical with the second birth, spiritual. I am still waiting for the physical, first resurrection out of this corruptible dead body. But I already embrace the second birth which is spiritual of the Holy Spirit.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
It's plain, simple truth, that has been over looked, neglected and hi-jacked by pharisaical church-ianity.
Unfortunately, their religious fabrication, of calling Jesus' physical return from heaven His second coming, has caused all of Christianity to be neglectful about the Day of Pentecost, the beginning of God's Age of Grace to all people, of which has been fulfilling Joel 3:14 directly, and in no other time shall it take place.
John 14[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Luke 17[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with [visual] observation:
Revelation 3[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Edit:
Romans 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
And you want to speak about spiritual things? For one who claims to do so, you should be readily embracing what I said about "the first resurrection" in Revelation 20:5-6. BUT, if you side step the reality of Pentecost being Jesus' second coming to us, being without observation, of course you won't understand.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
I am applying that understanding, but you are not hearing it at the moment.
So, when Jesus said that the KoG COMES, without visual observation, is that not about the KoG that CAME TO you, myself and billions of others?
Luke 17[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God [KoG] cometh not with [visual] observation:
I asked you previously, so here it is again:
Who is the KoG??
Try this for a clue:
Matthew 21[43] Therefore say I unto you [Jews], The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
See also 1 Peter 2:9
Who is that "nation", that HAS BEEN receiving the KoG, that DID COME TO THEM?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Paul has no issues pointing out a future coming after Pentecost. The point of a physical appearance. You are still avoiding the point. The Cross was the end of a physical age. Those in Paradise are currently like the angels, no procreation.
But the physical Second Coming is to set up a physical kingdom. No one can change the last 1992 years from a spiritual kingdom back into a physical kingdom. So your point is meaningless because at the Second Coming, that spiritual kingdom will be brought to an end and finalized.
So you trying to make Pentecost a third physical kingdom is the very point you try to refute as being pharisaical. There will be 2 physical comings, and Pentecost was a spiritual kingdom.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
I understand Amil wanting to hijack Revelation 20:4 and call it something it is not.
The first resurrection, first death, and first birth are all physical. One has to physically exist to be part of reality. The second birth, second death are spiritual, of a spiritual nature.
This Amil view of Revelation 20 that does away with a future reign of Christ on earth, and declares it indefinite instead of literal, has nothing to do with Pentecost, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Those resurrected in Revelation 20:4 were physically beheaded, not spiritually beheaded. Their resurrection was physical back to a physical body with a head attached. The first resurrection of Jesus was physical, from a physical tomb, then Jesus ascended physically with the OT redeemed. Then Jesus appeared to many that same day. Later Jesus again physically ascended into heaven. The place we cannot see because we are spiritually blind, even though spiritually born of the Holy Spirit. We still have to crucify Adam's nature on a daily basis, because we have a temporal corruptible physical body.
Unless you plan on being beheaded instead of taking the mark of the beast, Revelation 20:4 has nothing whatsoever to do with you. And those humans are the blessed ones. Once you are physically changed out of this corruption into incorruption, you will be blessed as well.
Why don't you go and hi-jack someone else's thread. You can't stay on this thread's topic even five seconds.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
I do agree!!
I agree, but to a different point. Yes, "that spiritual kingdom will be brought to an end and finalized",
BUT.... in THAT day of His Third coming in the fulness of His Glorious Immortality.
1. In the flesh- First coming,
to Israel, to invite the Jews first, to take part in God's Gift of salvation, through Christ's First resurrection.
Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 15:24-26, Luke 17:25,
Matthew 21:43, 1 Peter 2:9.
2. In the Spirit- Second coming,
to all the world, for to invite ALL to take part in God's Gift of salvation, through Christ's First resurrection.
Acts 2:16-22, (Joel 2:27-29, Joel 3:12-14), John 4:35, Luke 10:2, Matthew 13:30, Luke 17:20-21.
John 14:13-20.
3. In His Immortality- Third coming,
to REDEEM all who ARE blessed and holy, who DID take part in Christ's First resurrection, and to destroy all who DID NOT take part in Christ's First resurrection.
> In His Third time coming, HE will VISIBLY DESCEND from Heaven.
It will be a simultaneous event of the redemption of His saints, and the destruction for all others. KJV Luke 17:28-30, 1 Corinthians 15:50-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
Romans 8:8-9.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
Davy, I am not here to offend you or anyone, I am only out to speak HIS truth, and NOT what men like to say, or want to hear.
Don't you know that I am talking about the MILLENNIUM, aka "the valley of decision" (Pentecost to present)??
I am showing the correct timing of The Day of the Lord, which will suddenly be here, because He is going to "cut short" the Age of His Grace. Romans 9:28. Joel 3:14
So, what I have been saying, does fit with the title of your thread:
"The Day of The Lord, Wrong Timing Applied".
So in essence, I am staying on topic, right here:
1Cor.2[5] That your faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Amillennial thinking about the Grace of God towards man being indefinite is a false accusation. I SHOWED you Romans 9:28.
And there you are, trying to explain a physical 1000 year KoG on earth to come, while throwing away the Day of Pentecost, the KoG (Jesus Himself), who is STILL Coming to us, without observation, during God's Age of Grace.
If no one in all the world had received the Spirit of Christ, before His third and final coming, ALL would be destroyed. Romans 8:8-9
There is NO future reign of Christ on earth, with us ruling OVER anyone, who is of flesh and blood!!
Please consider this: your viewpoint is allowing people with the "mark of the beast" to be in a KoG on earth, by your belief system!
You better think fast, because that situation of the MoB, is only a couple to a few years away, whereby all Born again Christians (the wheat) will be persecuted and some put to death, aka the great tribulation. Joel 2[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
[32] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
> The Sun (true light) symbolizes the Grace of God gone dark (ended)
The Moon (reflected light) symbolizes "the body of Christ", being all we that shall be persecuted and/or killed, in the time of great tribulation, for refusing the MoB.
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