I know you are itching to move the discussion on from what title must be given to Christ to inherit eternal life. For you don't want to acknowledge it do you. Once you tell me if biblically speaking a person must believe the title Son of God to be saved, I will answer your question
The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.
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No.
I do not believe you must believe THE TITLE to be saved....only in the Person Who IS GOD and thus you are being saved by the only being with the power to save...GOD.
EZEKIEL
JEREMIAH
ISAIAH
And I'm not itching to do anything.
Now please answer....
Is Jesus God?
Then you are denying what is written all over the NT. This discussion is pointless. You refuse to accept the words of Christ, Paul and John. I have nothing more to discuss with you.
However, I will answer your question before I go as I said I would
As Jesus said:
There is only one TRUE God, the Father
Jesus is His Son
Just as I thought.
You're a new generation Arian.
Please find a church that agrees with you.
The word CHRISTIAN should not be in its title.
You are a head theologist my friend, sorry but it is the truth. You refuse to accept the plain words of the bible, wishing instead to theologise in order to overturn them. By and large this is an internet thing, for those who love to theologise come on the internet,
At the tender age of 50 I first ventured onto internet debating websites. A thread had been started. ‘’Did Jesus claim to be God when he walked this earth’’ I very innocently left a comment ‘’No’’
I was immediately harrangued by someone as misleading people. I was stunned, in 40 years of going to various Trinitarian churches I had never heard any minister state Christ is God himself, let alone you must believe it to inherit eternal life. It is those who have made a god out of head theology that make a big deal out of it I’m afraid
So there you go, if you stand on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth you must attend a church that is not called christian
Stephen
You keep talking about me though you don't know me.
These discussions were had by the early Christians and They decided what Christianity is and is not.
It IS believing Jesus is God.
If He's just some guy we're lost in our sins.
But whatever you believe, Jesus will be your salvation.
It's just that your belief will dilute the Christian faith and you are misrepresenting it.
Well I know you refuse to accept the title for Christ to be saved that was stipulated by Christ, Paul and John.
And, because I stand on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth, I should go to a church not titled christian. I think that's enough to be getting on with
You don't get to decide what Christianiry is.
Many arians around here.
Yes, Christian denominations do Not agree with you.
God bless.
In all truth, I would not mind who agreed or disagreed with me, I am on far safer ground, than someone who refuses to accept the words of Christ, Paul and John in regard to the title you must give Christ to be saved. The Holy Spirit could never lead you to contradict the words of Christ. In Trinitarianism that would be God contradicting God, and the whole thing collapses.
Only your natural academic mind could lead you to refuse to accept the words of Christ in this regard
To be brutally honest GG you are still very much in love with the religious aspects of who is God and who is the Son, rather that actually knowing them in spirit and according to scripture.
Saying that YHWH does not have a Son and that the 'logos' is actually a person proves this point. It's a religious view you have and not a Biblical view. And there is a wide gulf between the two and they shall never ever meet.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we've got another problem.
See, Jesus Himself said that if you don't believe that He is God, you will die in your sins.
John 8:24
That's a tough one for you to overcome.
Maybe if you pull out all the stops, you can make a respectable attempt at countering it though.
Only catch is you have to use Scripture to counter plain Scripture. Yikes.
Good luck.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Because I have a human boss, that doesn't make me any less a human.
Because the Father has a greater rank than the Son, why would that make the Son any less God?
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” John8:24
Where's your problem?
Did you mean?
Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am! John8:58 I will assume you did. The I AM was what you were thinking of, as Jesus did not say in that verse, I am God Himself(the one true God)
I will use scripture here, however, should I assume you are a JW? No! even they would not refer to God himself as an angel
This is the same Moses they had rejected with the words, ‘Who made you ruler and judge?’ He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush Acts7:35
So, an angel uttered the words I AM from the bush. God spoke through the angel. As Jesus uttering the words I AM convinces you that means he is termed God Himself, I assume, for consistency the Angel is also God Himself. Therefore you would refer to God as an angel
You have a strange philosophy, you said I would have to get scripture to counter scripture, but you yourself tried to get scripture to counter scripture. Well, off you go then, over to you to do the same again:
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John17:3
Difference is, I have the plain statements, you don't, which is why you made your error. Seeking to counter the plain words of Christ is not advisable.
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Its a shame really, but you can never discuss this subject with people who insist you believe Christ is the one true God to inherit eternal life. They ignore the plainest of statements put before them, showing them to be in error, and only want to discuss there theologising of other verses. They will endlessly carry on like this, because, it is all about theologising from the academic mind. No matter Christ, Paul and John plain as day repeatedly state the title that must be believed concerning Christ to inherit eternal life, they revel in trying to overturn all those statements any way they can. An SDA member is now trying to do it, I have to smile, they are normally most insistent the literal letter is absolute(when it suits them) But not in this case it seems. The literal words of Christ, John and Paul are ignored, as they seek to overturn the numerous plainly written verses of what they stated on the subject.
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1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
As usual, it was me who started this thread re the Deity and Triune Godhead but things have escalated way out of control.
Shalom to you and family
J.
You seem a very reasonable person to explain things to. Yesterday, I initially chatted to someone, and asked them, if, a person believed the Holy Spirit fully dwelt in the perfect body of Christ, would that mean they could only see Christ as an ordinary man? This was not directly addressed. I also pointed out, that as Trinitarian theology believes the Holy Spirit is God Himself, there would then be no difference as to the essence of Christ, between believing that and trinitarian belief, the difference would simply be in the title given to Christ. In such circumstances, I do not believe there should be a problem at all. If a person considered Christ an ordinary man, that is very different, but he is not, and I do not believe that, and I am sure no others do either here. If the difference is only in the title of Christ, and not the essence of Christ, in my view, it is anti biblical to say believing in the name Son of God for salvation is not enough.
I would also add, though you and I may not give the same actual title to Christ, we much agree as to the message of salvation. We can only do that because the same Holy Spirit dwells in both of us. You cannot be as one, in unity of belief, in the message of the cross unless the Holy Spirit brings you to such unity. Anyone who is indwelt by the Spirit is in a saved state, and accepted by God.
I think sometimes, it is easy, on websites such as these to demand strict belief in dogma, with inflexibility concerning that. We all get things wrong at times, none are perfect in all knowledge, but God, in his great love for us allows for our mistakes
God Bless
I am in full agreement with you in everything you've explained @stephen64
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
This is the message of the cross, and the resurrection of Christ Jesus, indwelt, sealed by the Holy Spirit, to a lost and dying world my brother.
I am also a simple kind of man, still learning, yearning for unity among the brethren and have long since learned not to lean on my own understanding and that there is a way that seemeth right in the eyes of a man..in short, I concur with you and are in agreement with you, English is not my first language hence the misunderstanding and miscommunication.
I am also looking for edification, growing in the knowledge and understanding of our Lord Christ Jesus, to know Him more intimately, to be conformed to Him and in His image.
But alas, this is the Internet, people with various doctrines whereas the Scriptures says to...
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Shalom to you and family, and welcome to the forum.
J.
I think your english is excellent considering it is a second language. Thank you for your encouraging post
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