The Devil's work

[Mungo]

Read the rest of the verse.
You left some out.
See, all deceivers only post a part of a verse, and that way they can lie.
Isnt that right? You just did it.

The rest of the verse says....and """""" he who believes not.....shall be damned.""""

See that part, you left out? Its the main part, deceiver.

Its showing you that its the BELIEVING or NOT< that is the reason, you'll burn in the lake of fire, or will end up in Heaven.
Notice it says nothing about water baptism.
It only explains that NOT BELIEVING< is why you go to hell.

Water can't save you.
Water didnt die on the Cross, mungo.
If water could save you then we'd all be saved the first time we took a SHOWER< or a BATH, or got into a swimming pool.

So, be smarter.
Ok?

This is why God told you this, and notice there is no WATER in it..
Read it.

John 3:36

The second part does not negate the first part.
The second part is not the main part.
The first part which I quoted is the main part.
That is what Jesus tells us to do to be saved.
Belief and baptism are the normative way that Jesus gave us for our salvation.

If we take slightly more and include the previous verse we get a fuller picture.
Here Jesus is giving the apostles final instructions before he ascends to heaven.
"And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

In these words Jesus sets out the basic methodology our initial justification (salvation)
preach the gospel; believe the gospel; be baptised.

We can see these three steps in the Acts of the Apostles.

At Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40)
"But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words……Jesus of Nazareth, … you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death….Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ…." [preach]

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (believe)

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…..Then those who gladly received his word were baptized [be baptised)

Philip in Samaria (Acts 8:5-12)
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. [preach]
But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, [believe]
both men and women were baptized. [be baptised]

You can see exactly the same pattern with:
Philip with the Ethiopian (Acts 8:26-38)
Cornelius (Acts 10:34-48)
Lydia (Acts 16:13-15)
The Jailer (Acts 16:30-33)
12 men at Ephesus (Acts 19:1-5)

Note what Paul says (in reverse order) in Rom 5:10-15
For, “every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

We do that in baptism as Paul recounted when Ananias spoke to him "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’" (Acts 22:16)

But first
14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?

15 And how can men preach unless they are sent?

Preach - Believe - Be baptised.

 

[justbyfaith]

The legalist is the person who believes.

1. Water baptism is required for salvation
2. Works are required.

Notice this word...>"REQUIRED"... So, the Legalist places their REQUIREMENTS on God's Grace, which changes it from a Gift to a SELF EFFORT.

Let me show you this....

The Legalist will not believe or agree that the same that saved you keeps you saved.

So, when you are ready, explain this...

Explain why the Blood of Jesus that saved you, keeps you saved, forever, and this can never be changed....

Explain that, grailhunter, whenever you think you can..

I really think, @Behold, that you just need to break down and get water baptized in Jesus' Name; instead of arguing against the idea that it can save you; to the detriment of your own soul.

So, you are another "cult of mary" who believes that the city water supply has some part to play in the Blood Atonement?

Tell us exactly when that dying Thief on the Cross was water Baptized, as you say "it is required".
But you'll say that was a special case?

Go and read a NT.
Try the "Acts of the Apostles".
Notice that in every case, where you find salvation occurring, the water comes after the conversion.
Always.

You can be water baptized, and be hell bound.
You can also never be water baptized, and you will go to heaven.

Water plays NO ROLE in Redemption.
Zero.

You are partially correct; for water does not have any magical properties in it that can save a man.

What it is, is that going underneath the water is the only accurate symbol of being buried and risen with Christ.

In being water baptized, we identify with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection; and this is a confession of Jesus before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8 for information as to whether this might or might not be salvational).

In 1 Peter 3:20-21, we are told that it is the symbol of baptism that saves us.

So, it is not what the symbol represents that saves us...it is the symbol itself.

Identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, is perfectly represented as a symbol, in water baptism. And it is this symbol that doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21).

Not the water; but what going underneath the water represents...and the representation that is made as a confession of Jesus Christ before men (again, Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

And where does Paul say that the Bible is THE final authority?

2 Timothy 3:16-17.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Agreed and you got this.
Did Christ baptize anyone? What does that mean? Did Christ say to be baptized? Act 2:38...You know that Luke was a disciple of Paul...right.

Galatians 3:26-27 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Roman 6:3-4
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Something as fundamental as Baptism....really? Satan is a schemer, he will approach the scriptures from any angle that he thinks he can twist and confuse. And so will his appointed. @Behold is dancing to Satan's fiddle....do not fall for his lies!

Well said. It is our duty as Christians to expose those in service to Satan. Keep up the good work.
Eternity is a long time for him to dance with that fiddler. Make sure as best as you,we, can that it is a solo performance.
God grant he does not lead anyone to follow him in his efforts here. Amen.

Lastly, Jesus and his disciples did baptize people.
When the savior with the good news baptized and taught baptism, those who teach against baptism are not following the words not example of Christ.
Bible Gateway passage: John 3 - New English Translation


Bible Gateway passage: John 4 - New English Translation
Now when Jesus[a] knew that the Pharisees had heard that he[c] was winning[d] and baptizing more disciples than John...

The next verse in parentheses claims Jesus was not baptizing. That's not scripture, that is a parenthetical writing style lending opinion. While John 3 proves Jesus and his disciples were baptizing. As does verse 3 in John 4.

It makes no sense for the scribe to interject (Jesus wasn't baptizing). Jesus led by example. He demonstrated the truth of the Gospel message even when conquering the flesh,grave, and resurrecting. But he wouldn't baptize people after teaching the importance of baptism in salvation? After we're told he and his disciples went about baptizing...but then he didn't? Riiiiight.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well said. It is our duty as Christians to expose those in service to Satan. Keep up the good work.
Eternity is a long time for him to dance with that fiddler. Make sure as best as you,we, can that it is a solo performance.
God grant he does not lead anyone to follow him in his efforts here. Amen.

He is a danger to souls....how many guests do we have on here everyday? New Christians at risk.
If you look at the other threads like once saved always saved....the Tares....he is absolutely intent on leading people astray.
He works at misrepresenting the Bible. From here on out anyone that talks to him should tell him to repeat. All this giving him good scriptures is of no interest to him. Just tell him to repent.

 

[Amazed@grace]

He is a danger to souls....how many guests do we have on here everyday? New Christians at risk.
If you look at the other threads like once saved always saved....the Tares....he is absolutely intent on leading people astray.
He works at misrepresenting the Bible. From here on out anyone that talks to him should tell him to repeat. All this giving him good scriptures is of no interest to him. Just tell him to repent.

After all this time here he doesn't know The Truth? Does repentance even mean anything to one intent on leading people to damnation? Satan has his disciples to you know.

 

[Grailhunter]

After all this time here he doesn't know The Truth? Does repentance even mean anything to one intent on leading people to damnation? Satan has his disciples to you know.

Absolutely right.
Good people have tried to help him, but all it has done has given him a forum to preach his evil heresy.
Best to just tell him to repent....no reason for people to dirty good scriptures on his account.

 

[justbyfaith]

You just lied again.
And this is probably because you dont read the bible at all, justbyfaith.

But if you do compare the KJV with the Douay Rheims, you'll note that the water cult bible, (Doauy Rheims) says this..

"""""Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be BORN AGAIN of water """""


The KJV says this..." Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water""""


So, the "cult of mary" bible LIE is that you are BORN AGAIN of water, which is your false belief.

Real Christians know that we are not born again of water, as the lying Douay Rheims, teaches, but rather we are born again by God's Spirit.
NO WATER.

The evidence that you have presented in your post in order to substantiate your point of view, actually substantiates mine.

Do you really think that people are so blind that they will accept your statements as gospel truth when the evidence is right in front of them that what you are saying is false?

That is like when the liberal news media reports "peaceful protests" when there are fires raging behind them.

No one is going to buy it.

 

[justbyfaith]

In 1 Corinthians 1, we find Paul saying that he wasn't called to baptize but to preach the gospel.

In the same context, we find that Paul did baptize three people in Corinth...Stephanas, Crispus, and Gaius.

So, does the fact that Paul wasn't called to baptize mean that baptism isn't a requirement?

We might think so if it weren't for the fact that a bunch of people were baptized in Corinth during Paul's ministry (Acts of the Apostles 18:8).

I consider that Paul took the same practice as concerning baptism as did Jesus in John 4:1-2...

He baptized a few who would then do all the baptizing for him.

 

[Mungo]

2 Timothy 3:16-17.

That doesn't say that the Bible is the final authority.
It says
All scripture is inspired by God agreed
and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, profitable, absolutely.
that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. Yes, but that doesn't say it is the final authority. It doesn't say that scripture is enough, just that we would be incomplete without it. It doesn't rule out needing other things to be complete.

Moreover scripture has no authority. It is authoritative, meaning true and reliable. But authority lies with people not books.
Jesus gave authority to his apostles not to a book. And you don't get any authority from the Bible.[/user]

 

[Behold]

This is what I said…..


Everything I said is true.

You've iied 2x now, grailhunter.

First you said that "everyone teaches Pauline Theology", and if that is true then the Pope will be very surprised, and so will the Jehovah's witness and the Mormons.
So, you said "everybody", and they dont, so, you are not only confused, but you are confident in your confusion, which makes you fooling for all to see.

Now, here is your reality chech, your commentary is short sighted and narrow minded, and is in fact, deceit.
Do i need some mormons and the pope and the cult of mary, and a few JW's to come to your house and prove they dont teach "Pauline Theology" to you?

And you have again said now of your deceit, that its "true".
So, now you lied 2x, regarding the same.
Will you do it a 3rd? Or will you do what most deceivers do, who are here on this Forum.
The go back and edit out their LIE, and then they change what they said.
Which will you do? both?
Will you now come and say...>"behold, i meant the people on this forum, ALL teach Pauline Theology".
So, will you try that TRICK, now, grailhunter?
If you do, you'll have lied again, as not all here even know what it is, and they certainly don't all preach it.

Here is an update for you, deceiver, not all preach Pauline Theology.
Believe it.
If they did, there would not be 40,000 denominations, that all disagree.
So, what does your "inner voice" and "heightened intuition" , tell you know?
Maybe you need another vision to help you understand what you're being taught?
What do you think?

As a matter of fact, most Christians could guess what that means, because they actually dont know what it means, but the Phrase, gives you a clue.
sure.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Absolutely right.
Good people have tried to help him, but all it has done has given him a forum to preach his evil heresy.
Best to just tell him to repent....no reason for people to dirty good scriptures on his account.

I wouldn't say it would be dirtying scriptures in the effort to repel intentional false leading of unaware readers toward his fiddler. Rather it is sound teaching that repels evil born from dark intent with the light and truth in God's word.

And Behold shall at the judgement seat of God himself answer for every word spoken.

While I think we owe it to new arrivals who may be seeking answers here to repel his false teachings that corrupt the word, with the truth of God's message as it is intended for their good. Not to deceive.

Telling him to repent can come later. Or at the end of the post that refutes his misleading doctrine.
His fate is his doing. With purpose and intent that one who corrupts the truth of the Gospel is both aware of what repentance means and yet demonstrates indifference as to what it will mean for them.

I think the priority should be for those Innocents who in reading him may follow his line of thought. It is they who, as seekers of the Gospel, need to know what repentance means as they look to enter into the faith in Christ.

In this world there are people working to go into damnation.
No matter what. When God's word is twisted to insure this happens by self identified teachers of that intention, I say, happy trails, to the teachers.

While doing my best to rob them of the students they hope to get to join them on that tide.

 

[Grailhunter]

.Stephanas, Crispus, and Gaius.

1st Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
Thank you, I was looking for this scripture
There ya go @Amazed@grace

 

[Grailhunter]

You've iied 2x now, grailhunter.

First you said that "everyone teaches Pauline Theology", and if that is true then the Pope will be very surprised, and so will the Jehovah's witness and the Mormons.
So, you said "everybody", and they dont, so, you are not only confused, but you are confident in your confusion, which makes you fooling for all to see.

Now, here is your reality chech, your commentary is short sighted and narrow minded, and is in fact, deceit.
Do i need some mormons and the pope and the cult of mary, and a few JW's to come to your house and prove they dont teach "Pauline Theology" to you?

And you have again said now of your deceit, that its "true".
So, now you lied 2x, regarding the same.
Will you do it a 3rd? Or will you do what most deceivers do, who are here on this Forum.
The go back and edit out their LIE, and then they change what they said.
Which will you do? both?
Will you now come and say...>"behold, i meant the people on this forum, ALL teach Pauline Theology".
So, will you try that TRICK, now, grailhunter?
If you do, you'll have lied again, as not all here even know what it is, and they certainly don't all preach it.

Here is an update for you, deceiver, not all preach Pauline Theology.
Believe it.
If they did, there would not be 40,000 denominations, that all disagree.
So, what does your "inner voice" and "heightened intuition" , tell you know?
Maybe you need another vision to help you understand what you're being taught?
What do you think?

As a matter of fact, most Christians could guess what that means, because they actually dont know what it means, but the Phrase, gives you a clue.
sure.

Repent from evil ways and words.

 

[Amazed@grace]

1st Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
Thank you, I was looking for this scripture
There ya go @Amazed@grace

Yes. Remember, I did not say Paul never baptized anyone.

 

[justbyfaith]

That doesn't say that the Bible is the final authority.
It says
All scripture is inspired by God agreed
and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, profitable, absolutely.
that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. Yes, but that doesn't say it is the final authority. It doesn't say that scripture is enough, just that we would be incomplete without it. It doesn't rule out needing other things to be complete.

Moreover scripture has no authority. It is authoritative, meaning true and reliable. But authority lies with people not books.
Jesus gave authority to his apostles not to a book. And you don't get any authority from the Bible.[/user]

I simply disagree with you.

I believe that the fact that all scripture is inspired of the Lord, makes it the final authority, over and above ex cathedra statements, and over and above the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Or will you do what most deceivers do, who are here on this Forum.
The go back and edit out their LIE, and then they change what they said.

If you are accusing me of doing that, that would be a false accusation.

I haven't seen anyone else do that here, either.

 

[Grailhunter]

I wouldn't say it would be dirtying scriptures in the effort to repel intentional false leading of unaware readers toward his fiddler. Rather it is sound teaching that repels evil born from dark intent with the light and truth in God's word.

And Behold shall at the judgement seat of God himself answer for every word spoken.

While I think we owe it to new arrivals who may be seeking answers here to repel his false teachings that corrupt the word, with the truth of God's message as it is intended for their good. Not to deceive.

Telling him to repent can come later. Or at the end of the post that refutes his misleading doctrine.
His fate is his doing. With purpose and intent that one who corrupts the truth of the Gospel is both aware of what repentance means and yet demonstrates indifference as to what it will mean for them.

I think the priority should be for those Innocents who in reading him may follow his line of thought. It is they who, as seekers of the Gospel, need to know what repentance means as they look to enter into the faith in Christ.

In this world there are people working to go into damnation.
No matter what. When God's word is twisted to insure this happens by self identified teachers of that intention, I say, happy trails, to the teachers.

While doing my best to rob them of the students they hope to get to join them on that tide.

As you wish of course.
As far as me....in the spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, I hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

 

[Behold]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]authority lies with people not books. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000].[/COLOR]

You teach awful theology.

First of all, its an insult to God, to low rate and denigrate the Bible, as you have, by lowering it to be no better then "books".

You call yourself a teacher, and a pastor, and yet you say the bible is no better then "books'.

Here is my reaction to that..

= SPIT.

Listen, Its like this...deceiver, with no authority other then your OPINIONS and your "cult of mary".
The word of God, is the Authority., and that's Final.
God said that He elevates His word above his NAME.
Notice this verse that you've never read..

""for thou God, hast magnified thy word above all thy name."""

Thats Psalm 138.
That is God's perspective on His word, that you deny has more authority than a person, and is just a "book".
So, think on that, Mr Water Baptism + Works is Salvation.
The word of God will be here, long after all your authorities have died and turned to dust.
The Word of God is The Truth, just as surely as Jesus is the Truth.

And also, you say that people are the Authority, and not the bible, Yet, God says that """"Jesus has ALL authority on Earth and in Heaven.""
So, there is your PEOPLE< authority.
That's one more verse you never read in that book you say is just a "book".

 

[justbyfaith]

Just playing the devil's advocate here...

@Behold, what do you say to the following passage?

1Co 4:18, Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.
1Co 4:19, But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
1Co 4:20, For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
1Co 4:21, What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

 

[Mungo]

I simply disagree with you.

I believe that the fact that all scripture is inspired of the Lord, makes it the final authority, over and above ex cathedra statements, and over and above the teachings of the Catholic Church.

The I think you do not understand the meaning of authority.
Jesus said “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" (Mt 28:18)
Can you show me from scripture where Jesus gave his authority to the Bible.

You can see from the following verses that he gave authority to the apostles
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" and then he said to them "and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Nothing about a book

 

[Behold]

Repent from evil ways and words.

I dont need to.

You said that "everyone teaches Pauline Theology", and i showed you that this is a lie.

Deal with your lie.
That's on you.