The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[Taken]

453 years later and you can't stop complaining about it.

Myth 3: A person can “buy forgiveness” with indulgences.
The definition of indulgences presupposes that forgiveness has already taken place: “An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven” (Indulgentarium Doctrina 1, emphasis added). Indulgences in no way forgive sins. They deal only with punishments left after sins have been forgiven.

Myth 4: Indulgences were invented as a means for the Church to raise money.
Indulgences developed from reflection on the sacrament of reconciliation. They are a way of shortening the penance of sacramental discipline and were in use centuries before money-related problems appeared.

Myths about Indulgences

 

[BreadOfLife]

Funny how you Catholics think. LOL

Thanks for sharing, if YOU HEAR something repeated over and over, YOU are likely to Believe it....pretty sure that is a highly effective method the Catholics USE in their teaching....Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, prayers. from a young age, Daily.

Rightly so...a heathen...
Repeat, Repeat, Repeat...

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as theheathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Luther was excommunicated and called a heretic For NOT recanting his claims.

And FYI the door swung both ways as the pope himself had some choice unflattering comments about Luther.

Luther didn't add to Scripture.
In CONTEXT, Luther Disagreed that Faith WITHOUT Works Is sufficient to receive Salvation.

Rom 3:28 is one verifying Scripture.

Rom 3:28
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

In CONTEXT, Catholics teach Faith AND Works are necessary to Receive Salvation.

In CONTEXT, Luther speaking to a Catholics claim...by Luther saying Faith Alone...was excluding and saying Without Works a man Could receive Salvation...

Scripture is clear....

A mans reasonable service is repentance, belief and heartfelt commitment...To receive from the Lord a Conversion, and at the Lords return, what the Lord sees is a Converted man.

Works? Nada.

Rom 12
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Works?? Are NOT parts of a requirement to receive Salvation.

Works Are within the category of Rewards, NOT Salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken

Your entire rant would make Joseph Goebbels proud.
"Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth" . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

yet highly unlikely.

Correct. selling of indulgences had occurred and were banned...but yet the practice somewhat continued...THEN flourished .... due to circumstances of debt in the Vatican, Alberts debt and the desire to raise money for the construction of a new st Peters Church and grand artworks.

Banning DID NOT eradicate selling of indulgences.
Outlawing of selling indulgences occurred 50 years after Luthers challenge.

Something was going on in that 50 years...during construction phase, paying for artworks, relieving the popes debts, receiving Alberts debts.
Your theory works out as Luther being the bad guy for exposing the Sales And Tetzel being the bad guy for selling the indulgences...
Yet the money From the sales got passed along to Albert and the Vatican...

Do you think the "Rotten Apples" included The archbishop Albert and pope LeoX ?

50 years after the fact? Continued construction and buying artworks with corrupt funds ...bother you?

Glory to God,
Taken

Are you really this dense - or are you being purposely obtuse? How many times and how many different exampled do you need to be shown??
Let me explain this to you in terms that you can understand - hopefully . . .

You are the CEO of a worldwide company and one of the things your company is involved with is a charity. Let's make it, Cancer Research, since you couldn't understand the "Toys for Tots" analogy.
One of your offices in Munich is collecting donations dishonestly, by promising people things that the company does not endorse - so you deal with that office and discipline them. Then you find out that this has been going on in a few other offices. Finally, you've had enough and you cancel the entire donation program.
The company will still give to the Cancer Research charity - but will not collect donations.

NOW - set that company back 500-600 years and take away postal service, telephones, television, radio, internet, social media, etc. and see how long this process would take.

Hopefully, you understand better now - but I'm NOT holding my breath . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Rightly so...a heathen...
Repeat, Repeat, Repeat...

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Glory to God,
Taken

Repetitious prayers are "forbidden" in Scripture??
Since when??

- In Matt. 26:44, our Lord himself prayed the EXACT SAME PRAYER three times in the Garden of Gethsemane after the Last Supper.

- In the Parable of the Determined Widow in Luke 18:-87, Jesus emphatically states that God hears those who keep petitioning him in sincere faith: “Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night? Will he be slow to answer them? I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily.”

- In Luke 18:13, the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying, “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This was pleasing to God.

- We see in Rev. 4:8 that the angels pray the EXACT SAME PRAYER day and night without ceasing in the presence of almighty God, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.”

- Psalm 136 goes on for Twenty-Six verses in a row, repeating the EXACT SAME PRAYER, “God's love endures forever”.

- In Dan. 3:56-88 we read the EXACT SAME PRAYER for Thirty-Two verses, which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever.” This is far more repetitious than a decade of the Rosary.


Like I tell you ALL the time - don't just quote the Bible - LEARN what it means . . .

 

[Taken]

453 years later and you can't stop complaining about it.

Ha!
Big difference between a complaint and a historical event.
Are you "complaining" when you speak of Adam and Eve's having disobeyed God or speaking of a historical event that caused a great Division?

You making fun of the government making the sighted and hearing aware of deaf and blind people?

 

[Taken]

Your entire rant would make Joseph Goebbels proud.
"Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth" . . .

Apparently anything you repeat over and over BECOMES your truth even when it is false.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You are the CEO of a worldwide company ...

That is a lie.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Repetitious prayers are "forbidden" in Scripture??
Since when??

Why ask me about something I never said?

Like I tell you ALL the time - don't just quote the Bible - LEARN what it means . . .

The Word was heathen Not Forbidden...!!

LOL

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why ask me about something I never said?

The Word was heathen Not Forbidden...!!

LOL

Glory to God,
Taken

Soooooo, Jesus, who prayed repetitiously (Matt. 26:44) is a "heathen"??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Apparently anything you repeat over and over BECOMES your truth even when it is false.

Glory to God,
Taken

I see you've finally worn yourself out . . .

That is a lie.

Glory to God,
Taken

So, you couldn't handle that analogy either.

That's what I thought . . .

 

[CovenantPromise]

Repetitious prayers are "forbidden" in Scripture??
Since when??

- In Matt. 26:44, our Lord himself prayed the EXACT SAME PRAYER three times in the Garden of Gethsemane after the Last Supper.

- In the Parable of the Determined Widow in Luke 18:-87, Jesus emphatically states that God hears those who keep petitioning him in sincere faith: “Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night? Will he be slow to answer them? I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily.”

- In Luke 18:13, the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying, “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This was pleasing to God.

- We see in Rev. 4:8 that the angels pray the EXACT SAME PRAYER day and night without ceasing in the presence of almighty God, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.”

- Psalm 136 goes on for Twenty-Six verses in a row, repeating the EXACT SAME PRAYER, “God's love endures forever”.

- In Dan. 3:56-88 we read the EXACT SAME PRAYER for Thirty-Two verses, which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever.” This is far more repetitious than a decade of the Rosary.


Like I tell you ALL the time - don't just quote the Bible - LEARN what it means . . .

Matthew 6:
The Lord's Prayer
…6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.…

What is it to babble on like pagans? I think it is when it comes to prayer regarding ones own personal needs- stuff. It is clear that is the babbling Christ is speaking of. The prayer of repetitious glorifying of God is never wrong nor the repetitious prayer of repentance.

 

[Taken]

Soooooo, Jesus, who prayed repetitiously (Matt. 26:44) is a "heathen"??

You continue to be laughable.

I posted:

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

You come back AS IF, "you understood" the word "heathen" to mean "forbidden"... LOL

Then you added, I should not only read the words, but understand them...

LIKE YOU, LOL!

Then you WONDER, if I am saying Jesus was a heathen because He "repeated" a prayer.

LOL...yet again you fail to comprehend the understanding of the Scripture, and what Jesus was Teaching.

Try again, READING the Scripture!

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

VAIN repetitions !!

Obviously you have NO understanding of specific words or Scripture.

VAIN is about ones OWN SELF WORTH.

Jesus was (per his Usual) Teaching BY HIS OWN EXAMPLE!

Jesus SAID...
Matt 26:
[39]..as thy (the Father) wilt
[42]..thy (the Father) will be done
[44] ..same words (ie the Father)

Obviously you do not know the DIFFERENCE between a VAIN repetitious prayer of a heathen... and a prayer ACKNOWLEDGING the one praying ASKING THE FATHERS WILL BE DONE.

Again, as you have been told numerous times, YOU are not my teacher, so stop VAINLY REPEATING over and over, YOU are the forum teacher!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I see you've finally worn yourself out . . .

So, you couldn't handle that analogy either.

That's what I thought . . .

Your so called anology began with a flat out lie...no need for me to continue reading or consider anything past your lie. That simple.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matthew 6:
The Lord's Prayer
…6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.…

What is it to babble on like pagans? I think it is when it comes to prayer regarding ones own personal needs- stuff. It is clear that is the babbling Christ is speaking of. The prayer of repetitious glorifying of God is never wrong nor the repetitious prayer of repentance.

Actually, in context - Baal worshipers at that time used to babble out loud trying to conjure up their god. We read about them in 1 Kings 18:26-29, where the pagan prophets on Mount Carmel tried to invoke Baal all day long, repeatedly calling on his name and performing ritual dances.

This may be what Jesus was referring top.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You continue to be laughable.

I posted:

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

You come back AS IF, "you understood" the word "heathen" to mean "forbidden"... LOL

Then you added, I should not only read the words, but understand them...

LIKE YOU, LOL!

Then you WONDER, if I am saying Jesus was a heathen because He "repeated" a prayer.

LOL...yet again you fail to comprehend the understanding of the Scripture, and what Jesus was Teaching.

Try again, READING the Scripture!

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

VAIN repetitions !!

Obviously you have NO understanding of specific words or Scripture.

VAIN is about ones OWN SELF WORTH.

Jesus was (per his Usual) Teaching BY HIS OWN EXAMPLE!

Jesus SAID...
Matt 26:
[39]..as thy (the Father) wilt
[42]..thy (the Father) will be done
[44] ..same words (ie the Father)

Obviously you do not know the DIFFERENCE between a VAIN repetitious prayer of a heathen... and a prayer ACKNOWLEDGING the one praying ASKING THE FATHERS WILL BE DONE.

Again, as you have been told numerous times, YOU are not my teacher, so stop VAINLY REPEATING over and over, YOU are the forum teacher!

Glory to God,
Taken

Jesus prayed repetitiously (Matt. 26:44).
The Angels in Heaven pray repetitiously (Rev. 4:8).
Catholics pray repetitiously.

NO difference, Einstein . . .

 

[CovenantPromise]

Actually, in context - Baal worshipers at that time used to babble out loud trying to conjure up their god. We read about them in 1 Kings 18:26-29, where the pagan prophets on Mount Carmel tried to invoke Baal all day long, repeatedly calling on his name and performing ritual dances.

This may be what Jesus was referring top.

Informative thank you. Babble: talk rapidly and continuously in a foolish, excited, or incomprehensible way. Obviously we do not need to do that. God Bless!

 

[Taken]

Jesus prayed repetitiously (Matt. 26:44).
The Angels in Heaven pray repetitiously (Rev. 4:8).
Catholics pray repetitiously.

NO difference, Einstein . . .

There is always a difference between Carnal Understanding and Spiritual Understanding. You repeatedly attempt to argue a point with your Carnal Understanding which is of no interest to me.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is always a difference between Carnal Understanding and Spiritual Understanding. You repeatedly attempt to argue a point with your Carnal Understanding which is of no interest to me.

Glory to God,
Taken

ONE more time:
Jesus prayed repetitiously (Matt. 26:44).
The Angels in Heaven pray repetitiously (Rev. 4:8).
Catholics pray repetitiously.

NO difference, Einstein . . .

 

[Taken]

ONE more time.

Only one more time when trying to stress repetitiveness?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[epostle]

Only one more time when trying to stress repetitiveness?

Glory to God,
Taken

Nobody is stressing repetitiveness, we are defending good repetitious prayer from people who don't know their Bible. Jesus condemned VANITY associated with repetitious prayer. not repetitious prayer in itself. Those who condemn good repetitious prayer dichotomize it with bad repetitious prayer and they do that out of VANITY and ignorance of Scripture.

Psalm 136 – in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.

Dan. 3:35-66 – the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.