The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[reformed1689]

Crack a lexicon, youre in serious need of one. Youre being influenced by your church not by the truth.

Bingo

 

[CovenantPromise]

Sooooooo, where does 2 Thess. 2:15 say that everything The Apostles taught will eventually be written down in Scripture??
Answer: It DOESN’T.

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."NO mention of an expiration date.

As for “contradicting” Scripture – Mary’s Immaculate Conception does NOT do this. She acknowledges that she was saved by God – so I’m NOT sure where you’re getting this from.

You seem to put the cart before the horse. I never said there was an expiration date . The apostles did speak and preach about Christ to their fold. That does not mean men can make NEW Oral Traditions WHICH CONTRADICT the apostles who wrote down what they spoke so that NO MAN can supersede their authority. Hence why they mention that people are to keep what they have received by speech or written word.

As I said ,that does not mean men can make NEW Oral traditions that are NOT supported by the WRITTEN word we have received . If it is NOT upheld by the written doctrine, THE FOUNDATION ,then it is heretical doctrine period! That word transcends time and has NO expiration date. To know if men speak according to the authority of the Holy Spirit , we are TOLD to test all spirits. And the scriptures are profitable for doctrine, correction, teaching and equipping a believer in righteousness.

Psalm 12:6
6The words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace, like gold purified sevenfold. 7You, O LORD, will keep us; You will forever guard us from this generation.…

Unfortunately , for you and the father-in-laws POWER BELONGS TO GOD. Hence, why Jacob had to flee to Canaan with his two brides (BUT ONE HOUSE) sanctified through Rachel who is the younger covenant in representation. He had to flee from his father-in-law's rage, who was not to have ANY authority over Jacob (ISRAEL) as far as replacing God's authority. That is what will happen today for the Elect of the New Covenant and those joined and united to Jacob from the Old. You keep with your laws in man made Tradition. I will stick with the ones from the apostles which are God's.

 

[CovenantPromise]

 

[CovenantPromise]

 

[CovenantPromise]

Love taking worship music from Joseph's coat of many colors.

Ephesians 5:
Children of Light
…18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to reckless indiscretion. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your hearts to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.…

Psalm 95:2
Let us enter His presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to Him in song.

Acts 16:25
About midnight, Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.

1 Corinthians 14:15
What then shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

1 Corinthians 14:26
What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church.

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song: "Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood You purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

God BLESS!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sanctification is complete when we are in Heaven.

Then you make God unjust. He requires double payment for some sins?

Agreed.
Because she is Kecharitomene at the Angel’s greeting - Mary’s sanctification was complete.

To be endowed with grace is ONE thing. You might say that your glass is being filled throughout your lifetime.
Mary is said to be full of grace – perfectly and completely. Therefore, her glass is FULL.
Since the Bible teaches that Mary’s glass is FULL – the endowment of grace has been completed.

1. The Scriptures teach that we are saved by God’s grace.
2. Therefore, to be “full of grace”, is to be saved.
3. Since she is “full of grace”, Mary is saved (Luke 1:28).
4. The Bible teaches that we need God’s grace to be holy and live a life free from sin.
5. Hence, to be “full of grace” is to be so holy that one is sinless.
6. So, Mary is holy and sinless.

Now that we've established her sinlessness - how about addressing post #1213 and Mary's role as Ark of the New Covenant??

Finally, as to redemption and our choosing to follow Christ – WHY does that require “double payment” for some sins??

 

[reformed1689]

Agreed.
Because she is Kecharitomene at the Angel’s greeting - Mary’s sanctification was complete.

You still have to prove that the word says what you claim, you have yet to meet that burden of proof.

Mary is said to be full of grace – perfectly and completely.

That is what the Catholic church says without basis.

Now that we've established her sinlessness - how about addressing post #1213 and Mary's role as Ark of the New Covenant??

We have not established sinlessness at all.

Finally, as to redemption and our choosing to follow Christ – WHY does that require “double payment” for some sins??

Not following your question here.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm not conflating anything. The post i made was in response to someone else regarding works. The unsaved cannot do works pleasing to God. The saved are created for good works.

And the notion ALL people on the planet are redeemed is a huge flaw in your theology. You can't be bought back AND not saved. And redemption does not mean 'paid the sins of everybody'. Crack a lexicon, youre in serious need of one. Youre being influenced by your church not by the truth. Jesus said in Mk 10:45 that He gave His life a ransom for many.....not everybody. If everybody had their sins paid for and by extension their certificate of debt nailed to the cross..Col 2:14, there would be zero people in hell. What kind of god do you have anyway, that redeems all mankind then still ends up throwing many into hell for eternity?

Lurkers, this is the folly of catholicism.

Ay, ay, ay – this is the tragedy of Protestantism.
Tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim that the Holy Spirit “led” them in their flawed interpretations. In YOUR case – the 16th century, man-made Calvinist abomination of Limited Atonement – the “L” of his “TULIP” debacle.

In one breath, you condemn my definition of “Redeemed” as paid for – and in the very next sentence, you ECHO my definition by referencing Col. 2:14.

1 Tim. 2:3-4 for states emphatically that God wills the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge pof the truth. Sadly – NOT all will choose to follow Him.

John 3:16 states explicitly that God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten son – and WHOEVER believes in him will have everlasting life – but NOT everyone will follow Him.

Mark 10:45 says that He gave His life as a ransom for MANY and not “ALL” because NOT all will choose to follow Him.

Get it now??
Don’t just quote Scripture. LEARN what it means . . .

 

[Taken]

And the point you keep missing because of your heresy is that, although He was human, Jesus lived a PERFECT life.

HUMANS don't live a perfect Life.
HUMANS Require a Savior to Become PERFECT-ED.

Jesus Did NOT require a Savior.
Gods ONLY Begotten Son WAS NOT a HUMAN.
God IS Spirit.
The Son of God IS Spirit.
Spirit IS the POWER of God.

Are you completely Unaware, God has the POWER to "APPEAR" in the Likeness AS His own Created Angels and own Created earthy men?

Do you seriously think God "changes" INTO His own Created Angels or His own Created earthly men?

Scripture Clearly informs you...
God DOES NOT CHANGE.

It is earthy people God is INFORMING, HOW TO "Change".

And IF and WHEN an earthy man "changes", he DOES NOT BECOME God...any more than God BECOMES Created man.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

A pew-filler, hopefully on his way to surrendering to Christ.

Really? A Pew-filler. Pfft!

He is called a Christian, and it hinges on following the Word, but not have committed to the word.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CovenantPromise]

Sooooooo, where does 2 Thess. 2:15 say that everything The Apostles taught will eventually be written down in Scripture??
Answer: It DOESN’T.

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."NO mention of an expiration date.

As for “contradicting” Scripture – Mary’s Immaculate Conception does NOT do this. She acknowledges that she was saved by God – so I’m NOT sure where you’re getting this from.

Do you have scriptures? YES , how else would there be ANY assemblies? As for obedience to them well....THAT IS ANOTHER THING.

 

[Nondenom40]

Ay, ay, ay – this is the tragedy of Protestantism.
Tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim that the Holy Spirit “led” them in their flawed interpretations. In YOUR case – the 16th century, man-made Calvinist abomination of Limited Atonement – the “L” of his “TULIP” debacle.

I've never claimed to be a calvinist. I never brought up limited atonement. I responded to your whacked idea that all the earth is redeemed, with scripture. And your response is a rant against calvinism?? Too funny. Instead of hurling insults how about simply addressing the issues?

In one breath, you condemn my definition of “Redeemed” as paid for – and in the very next sentence, you ECHO my definition by referencing Col. 2:14.

A. You didn't give a definition, you gave your opinion, which is quite wrong.
B. Paul in Col 2 was not speaking of the entire human race.
C. Context isn't the friend of catholics.

1 Tim. 2:3-4 for states emphatically that God wills the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge pof the truth. Sadly – NOT all will choose to follow Him.

John 3:16 states explicitly that God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten son – and WHOEVER believes in him will have everlasting life – but NOT everyone will follow Him.

Mark 10:45 says that He gave His life as a ransom for MANY and not “ALL” because NOT all will choose to follow Him.

Get it now??
Don’t just quote Scripture. LEARN what it means . . .

You just destroyed your own argument. Thanks. If redemption meant ALL are purchased then all the verses you just quoted would be moot because ALL would be in heaven. Do a word study before you come out here and embarrass yourself with the obvious lack of knowledge you presume to have. Writing in BOLD CAPS is no substitute for learning.

 

[Ezra]

HOW is my view "heretical"??

how is it not ? you alone are the BIGGEST HERETIC in this forum . your bread is the same as the leaven of the pharisees .. your doctrine is so far out there.i have doubts you ever seeing home plate

 

[Taken]

Obviously not Christian if they are NOT SAVED and well being born again is called becoming Christian,

Did you ever notice it was men who did NOT follow after Christ, who called men who DID follow after Christ....Christians?

Did you ever notice People follow after Christ, call themselves Christians and then reject Christ and claim the USED to be a Christian?

I do not agree with you.
I believe "Christians" are followers of the Word of God.
I believe Jesus was clear that "Converted", is the most correct term, and Permanent, whereas the term Christian, a person can be one and then not.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ezra]

I know

I want to know why HE thinks that having followed Jesus for His entire ministry was required of Matthias.

the 2 amigos amigo 1 amigo 2

 

[Ezra]

Did you ever notice People follow after Christ, call themselves Christians and then reject Christ and claim the USED to be a Christian?

the young man at the hospital was asked are you a christian? yes i been a catholic all my life. he couldn't even pray

 

[CovenantPromise]

Did you ever notice it was men who did NOT follow after Christ, who called men who DID follow after Christ....Christians?

Did you ever notice People follow after Christ, call themselves Christians and then reject Christ and claim the USED to be a Christian?

I do not agree with you.
I believe "Christians" are followers of the Word of God.
I believe Jesus was clear that "Converted", is the most correct term, and Permanent, whereas the term Christian, a person can be one and then not.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CovenantPromise]

Let me translate in a straightforward way TAKEN ( does that mean taken away by sin?)
Christ means -Anointed One
Meshiach means- Christ in Hebrew
BOTH=Anointed One
One who follows and abides in Christ is a Christian -Anointed One of Christ, GET THE PICTURE?

 

[Taken]

the young man at the hospital was asked are you a christian? yes i been a catholic all my life. he couldn't even pray

I asked a guy once if he was a Christian, he said, no, he was a Catholic. I asked when did he become Catholic. He said he was born Catholic. LOL

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ezra]

I asked when did he become Catholic. He said he was born Catholic. LOL

that is the most important thing to them catholic