The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

[DNB]

The worst exegetes? John 1 flat out says Jesus is God. It cannot be interpreted any other way unless you simply refuse to believe what the Bible says. The Trinity, not the word, but the concept, is CLEARLY evident in both Old and New Testaments. Yes I am dogmatic on this! If you don't acknowledge the Trinity you do not know God. If you do not know God, you are not saved. Period. You need to fall on your knees and seek God immediately!

I've made my position clear, 1689, and why. They are sound, reasonable and Biblical arguments. I've addressed John 1 in a former post (antanaclasis - Christ's pre-eminency, not pre-existence).
On the contrary 1689, I don't believe that you are saved. You have denied the Son, i.e. you won't accept him unless he's God, ...which defies the whole principle of son and all its implications, in regard to redemption and Messiahship. Thus, in the end, you have made a mockery of both God's ontology, and His soteriology.
You can't even understand what you just concluded, ...and you dare to call such a disposition as piety and faith, ...a complete bastardization of the words.

 

[reformed1689]

I've made my position clear, 1689, and why. They are sound, reasonable and Biblical arguments. I've addressed John 1 in a former post (antanaclasis - Christ's pre-eminency, not pre-existence).
On the contrary 1689, I don't believe that you are saved. You have denied the Son, i.e. you won't accept him unless he's God, ...which defies the whole principle of son and all its implications, in regard to redemption and Messiahship. Thus, in the end, you have made a mockery of both God's ontology, and His soteriology.
You can't even understand, what you just concluded, ...and you dare to call such a disposition as piety and faith, ...a complete bastardization of the words.

Heresy

 

[rockytopva]

We are supposed to be family here... Please go easy on fellow members and spare us the hate filled words.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

We are supposed to be family here... Please go easy on fellow members and spare us the hate filled words.

Matthew 16:16-18 King James Version (KJV) 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Walter

 

[reformed1689]

We are supposed to be family here... Please go easy on fellow members and spare us the hate filled words.

There is a difference between hate-filled and speaking truth. And I don't think anyone is under the delusion here that everyone is family, they most certainly are not.

 

[DNB]

Heresy

Eisegete!

 

[DNB]

We are supposed to be family here... Please go easy on fellow members and spare us the hate filled words.

...not sure if you were referring to the discussion between @reformed1689 and myself? If so, I didn't take any offense, i totally appreciate 1689's frankness and honesty, and would both expect and desire no less.
...excuse me btw, if that wasn't your focus, ....and thanks all the same, if it was?

 

[reformed1689]

Eisegete!

It's pretty hard to read into the text Jesus is God when the chapter flat out says it.

 

[rockytopva]

...not sure if you were referring to the discussion between @reformed1689 and myself? If so, I didn't take any offense, i totally appreciate 1689's frankness and honesty, and would both expect and desire no less.
...excuse me btw, if that wasn't your focus, ....and thanks all the same, if it was?

As long as we don't leave with hard feelings.

 

[DNB]

It's pretty hard to read into the text Jesus is God when the chapter flat out says it.

Because the concept of a god-man is such an implausible and antithetical concept, we are forced to extrapolate a more profound meaning to the text. This is elementary hermeneutics. I have opted to render the passage using a literary convention called antanaclasis, and believe that the harmonization in that context, is entirely more plausible, and ultimately, glorious to God.

 

[DNB]

As long as we don't leave with hard feelings.

Not with @reformed1689 , he's serious and studied enough (despite being wrong), that I trust that he's acting sincere, and in defense of what he believes to be the truth. My opinion anyhow...
I can appreciate your concern though, in many other cases. Thanks all the same for the vigilance!

 

[reformed1689]

Because the concept of a god-man is such an implausible and antithetical concept

Why? Why is it implausible and antithetical? You have to establish that is you not imposing something on the text.

 

[reformed1689]

Not with @reformed1689 , he's serious and studied enough (despite being wrong), that I trust that he's acting sincere, and in defense of what he believes to be the truth. My opinion anyhow...
I can appreciate your concern though, in many other cases. Thanks all the same for the vigilance!

Yes, I am serious. Not wrong, but definitely serious and defending the truth.

 

[Heart2Soul]

There is a difference between hate-filled and speaking truth. And I don't think anyone is under the delusion here that everyone is family, they most certainly are not.

No....truth spoken in judgment of others is not truth. It is mixed with the evil intent of pride....Truth mixed with false pride then becomes corrupted and does not bring freedom to the one your speaking to.
The Truth sets us free if we are able to receive it. Those who are are taught different doctrines hold their doctrines as truth just as much as you do. Be angry and sin not.

 

[DNB]

Why? Why is it implausible and antithetical? You have to establish that is you not imposing something on the text.

It is extensively sad that I need to explain this, seriously!
Everything that defines divinity, is antithetical to what defines humanity.
One is transcendent, the other corporeal.
One is immortal, the other mortal.
One is aseitic, the other has no control over their existence.
One is fallible, the other infallible.
One is omnipresent, the other is circumscribed in space and time.
One is holy, the other corruptible.
...
Thus, the natures and ontologies are not compatible. You cannot have such a dichotomy of diametrically opposed attributes, within one entity.
Please, 1689, you get this part, right?
Please tell me that you are not going to dismiss these fundamental and unavoidable implausibilities?

 

[DNB]

Yes, I am serious. Not wrong, but definitely serious and defending the truth.

...perceived truth!

 

[Dcopymope]

We are supposed to be family here... Please go easy on fellow members and spare us the hate filled words.

We are only "family" in your own imaginations.

 

[reformed1689]

No....truth spoken in judgment of others is not truth. It is mixed with the evil intent of pride....Truth mixed with false pride then becomes corrupted and does not bring freedom to the one your speaking to.
The Truth sets us free if we are able to receive it. Those who are are taught different doctrines hold their doctrines as truth just as much as you do. Be angry and sin not.

Patently false.

 

[reformed1689]

...perceived truth!

Written truth.

 

[reformed1689]

It is extensively sad that I need to explain this, seriously!
Everything that defines divinity, is antithetical to what defines humanity.
One is transcendent, the other corporeal.
One is immortal, the other mortal.
One is aseitic, the other has no control over their existence.
One is fallible, the other infallible.
One is omnipresent, the other is circumscribed in space and time.
One is holy, the other corruptible.
...
Thus, the natures and ontologies are not compatible. You cannot have such a dichotomy of diametrically opposed attributes, within one entity.
Please, 1689, you get this part, right?
Please tell me that you are not going to dismiss these fundamental and unavoidable implausibilities?

So you limit God then. That he cannot take on humanity as well? Are you saying he cannot do something that he clearly did? Are you God?