The Elect?

[Mjh29]

Absolutely. That is precisely what the Bible says.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Jn 6:51)

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Heb 2:9)

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:5,6)

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 Jn 2:1,2)

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isa 53:6)

The question you should be asking yourself is "When did I stop believing God and chose to believe the lies of men?"

So Christ died for every sin of every man. Ok, so then why do some go to heaven, and others do not?

 

[CoreIssue]

A simple yes or no would suffice. Did Christ die for every sin of every man?

Not playing your game.

Do you have everyone starting at a differing condition? All outside of Christ are condemned; John 3:18; and all are under wrath; Ephesians 2:3. That's the condition.

God elects some to salvation according to his plan and purpose; Ephesians 1:11; Romans 8:28; 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

What you are arguing is that God chose you because you did something, and favored you because you did something. Favor is grace, and God's grace is unmerited, yet you have yourself meriting grace because of something you've done and God being you do it then because of what you did God saves you. That is not grace, and that is not a gift, it is a meritorious reward based on what you did.

All men fell. Right now mankind justly receives wrath, which is God removing his restraint on mankind, and society is spiralling out of control. He is just in allowing this. Right? He owes man nothing. Right?

God rightly can exercise justice on every single person. As judge he owes no man an opportunity for salvation. By his grace he has exercised mercy on whom he wills; note Exodus 33:19ff; Romans 9:16; Romans 12:1ff. Those who die in their sins receive his justice, and that is neither unjust, or injustice, he owes them nothing.

Therefore we should fear God in his Sovereign execution of justice or mercy, as none are deserving of the latter. All are deserving of the former and are owed nothing. He elects based on nothing in us, and there is nothing good in any of us for him to elect us. He elects according to his plan and purpose. Some judge God as unjust for all this. They need to be very careful here in charging God with such foolishness; Romans 9:27.

Once achieving accountability, everyone is lost sinner.

Unlike you I believe everyone has free will to repent.

The majority do not repent.

There is also a large group as shown by those standing before the white throne judgment that think they are saved but are not. They tried to on salvation or stake it on a false gospel.

Salvation is not or owed. It is offered out of love but forced on no one and withheld from no one.

As for me to be very careful here your theology since it doesn't matter. All were either chosen for heaven or hell. One can never gain or lose either once God decided.

 

[CoreIssue]

You're arguing using persons in the state of conversion and harmony to try and prove the condition between being lost before God. You're making category errors and conflating things.

Still waiting for you to prove your case with scripture. Your point on familial relationship in the church falls short of how God saves since that is everone in their converted state, not a state of lostness and in need of salvation.

You're dodging. Prove your case with Scripture. We already have, we're waiting on you.

The fact remains the same by your theology you being on here trying to convince people is a total waste of time.

 

[CoreIssue]

Calvinists believe that their doctrine of God's sovereignty brings glory to God, when it is the exact opposite.

The deeper and more serious issue is that Reformed Theology brings division to Christians unnecessarily. The Reformers literally slaughtered thousands of Anabaptists because their doctrine was different. If Calvinists were in control today, no doubt there would be purges and pogroms against non-Calvinists. And then we had the Calvinistic Dutch supporting and encouraging the German Nazis while they mass murdered Dutch Jews.

Agree. My point remains the same. The God Calvinism completely arbitrary.

 

[Mjh29]

Not playing your game.


Once achieving accountability, everyone is lost sinner.

Unlike you I believe everyone has free will to repent.

The majority do not repent.

There is also a large group as shown by those standing before the white throne judgment that think they are saved but are not. They tried to on salvation or stake it on a false gospel.

Salvation is not or owed. It is offered out of love but forced on no one and withheld from no one.

As for me to be very careful here your theology since it doesn't matter. All were either chosen for heaven or hell. One can never gain or lose either once God decided.

Not playing my game.... But of course you start a thread calling us a cult, so we all have to play yours. You may be the god of your salvation, but that power does not translate into the reality. You want answers, you have to answer questions. It's called actually having a discussion.

 

[Mjh29]

The fact remains the same by your theology you being on here trying to convince people is a total waste of time.

Ah, so the moment you can't answer a question, you claim you're "Not playing this game" and retreat back to your baseless and factless accusations.

 

[Enoch111]

So Christ died for every sin of every man. Ok, so then why do some go to heaven, and others do not?

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:19-21).

ACTS 28
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

 

[Mjh29]

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:19-21).

ACTS 28
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

So, we go to heaven based on our belief, correct?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Not playing your game.


Once achieving accountability, everyone is lost sinner.

Unlike you I believe everyone has free will to repent.

The majority do not repent.

There is also a large group as shown by those standing before the white throne judgment that think they are saved but are not. They tried to on salvation or stake it on a false gospel.

Salvation is not or owed. It is offered out of love but forced on no one and withheld from no one.

As for me to be very careful here your theology since it doesn't matter. All were either chosen for heaven or hell. One can never gain or lose either once God decided.

Not even one Scripture, all you, all your thought, all your idea of what you deem fair. Sorry, that is purely subjective, not the Gospel, and not truth.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

The fact remains the same by your theology you being on here trying to convince people is a total waste of time.

Again, not one Scripture, all you, all your thoughts.

You've failed to prove your beliefs with Scripture. Not only this, you've totally avoided any offered you that prove my position is biblical. Furthermore you've offered no refutation of any Scripture given you. Not one.

By the way and for the record, it is not my job to convince people, God does that via his word. Secondly it is no waste of time as God will win whom he has chosen via the word we preach.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Ah, so the moment you can't answer a question, you claim you're "Not playing this game" and retreat back to your baseless and factless accusations.

Unfortunately it appears he is playing the games. He totally avoids addressing biblical answers and resorts to what he thinks, yet with zero Scripture.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

@CoreIssue

We've all been fair with you, and have given you biblically based answers. You've yet to accomplish the same. I'm certain we all care about you or we would not spend this much time and effort in Scripture to help you see our position is biblical, and proven so.

But the fact remains you are not looking at what we are saying, have not refuted it, and don't make a biblical case. We've attempted to get you to show us where in Romans 8 you came up with what is not in there, and you've made no attempt to prove it. It's because it's not there.

Many times we've tried to get you to answer biblically, and prove your position. Unfortunately you are unwilling and frankly unable to do so. So you resort to what you think and believe.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am trying to stay consistent to the scriptures as world does not mean all whoever lived in every instance. I am not deliberately or unintentionally trying to redefine anything.

3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;[Colossians 1]

Look at vs 6. Is everybody whoever lived bearing fruit and increasing? No. Not even everyone who was alive at that time had heard the gospel.

ah, ok. Well, you might be surprised, having gotten a definition of "gospel" the way we do...I would say v6 conflicts with your def, but I would ask Lex first, etc.

But this even comports with other Scripture, imo that is how the world is said to be "passing away" prolly, and I would be questioning my definitions first. Anyway, it doesn't say "everyone who ever lived" bore fruit, true, but even those who died bearing no fruit might be a lesson to the others, maybe, or something like that?

 

[bbyrd009]

Unfortunately it appears he is playing the games. He totally avoids addressing biblical answers and resorts to what he thinks, yet with zero Scripture.

look who's talking now eh
but hey Dave likes it
and death More Abundantly too tho i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Hilarious now to listen to wolves quote Scripture-

how was I ever fooled by this, I wonder?
Note the use of "we" to bolster the puke,
the "this is that, and that is this,"
just like Snoop Dogg says?

let the blind lead the blind

 

[SovereignGrace]

So you're saying there is a limit to how many God can choose to live.

It is that or he is choosing some to live and choosing some to die arbitrarily.

Which is it?

And do not give me this self glory claim. It still boils down to the two options stated.

I am not saying it, the Bible is. Your beef is not with me but the Bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

So, we go to heaven based on our belief, correct?

you're a warlock bro lol, be honest reading Scripture is literally painful for you huh

 

[bbyrd009]

So you're saying there is a limit to how many God can choose to live.

It is that or he is choosing some to live and choosing some to die arbitrarily.

Which is it?

And do not give me this self glory claim. It still boils down to the two options stated.

always a sign too I guess
but then you're seeking the Elysian Fields too huh

 

[bbyrd009]

If I ever need any spells though, I guess I know where to come

 

[SovereignGrace]

Hilarious now to listen to wolves quote Scripture-

how was I ever fooled by this, I wonder?
Note the use of "we" to bolster the puke,
the "this is that, and that is this,"
just like Snoop Dogg says?

let the blind lead the blind

Soooo...we’re wolves and blind leading the blind?

Bruh, you ain’t even worth my time. Toodles, noodles.