The End of the Mosaic Age

[face2face]

That's what 1260 days and 42 months add up to. That is using Hebrew months as 30 days.




All chapters of the bible have the same enemy. They are always against God and satan is ultimately the main cause of this.

You don't know then.
The Bible reveals many enemies through history...you just need to know when in History Rev 11 took place.

 

[face2face]

It would help if you read my post before responding. I never mentioned some future 3.5 years. I mentioned the intra-Advent period. It seems like Preterists are so obsessed with Titus and AD70 that they see them as the apex of history. This is frankly ridiculous. No wonder you do not want to discuss the biblical reality.

We have already proven the context to the Olivet Prophecy is the events leading up to and including AD70. Maybe you are late in the discussion and havn't familirsied yourself with the posts thus far.

Christ and the New Testament writers only recognize two overriding ages in their teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.”

According to who? You? "last days" leading up to the day of slaughter was the immediate judgement on Jerusalem and it's rebellious people.

The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). See also Romans 2:4 and 2 Timothy 2:10. This shows that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14).

Here is the verse you referenced:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Your assumption is typical of futurist thinking - lets ignore the present Roman Empire to which the Gospel was being preached into - rather lets apply this verse to 2000 + years into the future, ignoring the original intended audience.

Col 1:6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world (Roman World)—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.

“diroumene” = Roman habitable

Romans 10:16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?

Try interpreting the text with the first audience in mind - Jesus' ministry was relevant to those listening to him!

I'm yet to hear you speak with first person context or historical context.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Cont...

Matthew 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet

AD 41 Caligula orders erection of his image in the temple
AD 54-68 Empire convulsed with contentions for leadership (Nero, Galba, Otho, Vittluis)
AD 62 Clash of Jews and Syrians in Ceaserea
AD 60 Uprise against Jews in Alexandria
AD 62-66 Beginning of Jewish revolt against Romans. Zealots and Sicarri

It's interesting that the Futurist would have Jesus speaking of events that were so far in the future that none of his words held any relevance to their age. This is why the Revelation is lost on them because they cannot interpret in a Continuous Historical method. Take all the Lord’s words in the Olivet Prophecy - all of them are given with history in mind - look at the above! Believers at that time would be without excuse in not heeding the Lord’s warnings to get out of Jerusalem. Many believers did, but most remained and perished.

F2F

 

[WPM]

We have already proven the context to the Olivet Prophecy is the events leading up to and including AD70. Maybe you are late in the discussion and havn't familirsied yourself with the posts thus far.


According to who? You? "last days" leading up to the day of slaughter was the immediate judgement on Jerusalem and it's rebellious people.


Here is the verse you referenced:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Your assumption is typical of futurist thinking - lets ignore the present Roman Empire to which the Gospel was being preached into - rather lets apply this verse to 2000 + years into the future, ignoring the original intended audience.

Col 1:6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world (Roman World)—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.

“diroumene” = Roman habitable

Romans 10:16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?

Try interpreting the text with the first audience in mind - Jesus' ministry was relevant to those listening to him!

I'm yet to hear you speak with first person context or historical context.

F2F

Yea right! The only thing you have proven is that you are a master of avoidance and your focus and inspiration is in the wrong place. You could not even address the evidence in my post.

Objective (and enlightened) Christians see the focus of Scripture as Christ and His 2 Advents. AD70 is completely secondary. It is simply the final visible consequence of the cross. It is the removal of the already defunct old covenant arrangement. Why would that be the focus of the NT? AD70 is not even the end of the old covenant. You cannot grasp that with your unbiblical unhealthy and misguided obsession with Titus and that year. It is impossible to interact with Full Preterists. That is because that view is heresy.

 

[WPM]

Cont...

Matthew 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet

AD 41 Caligula orders erection of his image in the temple
AD 54-68 Empire convulsed with contentions for leadership (Nero, Galba, Otho, Vittluis)
AD 62 Clash of Jews and Syrians in Ceaserea
AD 60 Uprise against Jews in Alexandria
AD 62-66 Beginning of Jewish revolt against Romans. Zealots and Sicarri

It's interesting that the Futurist would have Jesus speaking of events that were so far in the future that none of his words held any relevance to their age. This is why the Revelation is lost on them because they cannot interpret in a Continuous Historical method. Take all the Lord’s words in the Olivet Prophecy - all of them are given with history in mind - look at the above! Believers at that time would be without excuse in not heeding the Lord’s warnings to get out of Jerusalem. Many believers did, but most remained and perished.

F2F

Christ spoke about 2 events in Matthew 24. The disciples asked Him to explain those 2 events, and when they would happen. Christ answered those 2 questions about 2 events.

Many Bible students (including Preterists and Premillennialists) dive into Matthew 24 without recognizing the intro to Christ's comments in Matthew 23. There He talks about 2 events - AD70 and His climactic return at the end of time.

Jesus said in Matthew 23:37–39: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

Jesus, first of all, speaks about the destruction of the temple in AD70, as a result of Israel's unbelief. He then talks about a future climactic day in the future when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Here were two key events that would happen in the then future. The disciples were obviously inquisitive as to when these would happen. They then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words. Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “Tell us, when shall these things be?”
2. “and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end (sunteleías, meaning completion, or consummation) of the world (age)?”

This proves that the disciples were enquiring about the realization of these two aforementioned days. They wanted to know about their fulfillment. Sadly, Preterists and Premillennialists each ignore the other's events relating to the past and the future. Both are therefore missing the context and meaning. The context proves that Israel will be forced to cry "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" at Christ's future "parousia," at "the end of the age.”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming. Jesus addresses the greatest event first. He talks about the trying events that will precede His glorious return, and then reassures: “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” This introductory part pertaining to the intra-Advent period relates to Matthew 24:4-14. Mark 13:5-13 and Luke 21:8-19 parallels.

Jesus then changes track and refers to the events that surround the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem in Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24.

Christ's shift to answering the second question (re the future second coming) comes in Matthew 24:23, Mark 13:21 and Luke 21:25. These are all parallel accounts. Our Lord describes events that will precede His return, and then speaks about that climactic event also. The detail re generation speaks that genea alive when He returns in power and glory. The subject in view continues until the end of each respective chapter.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:23-51: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai], but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

 

[face2face]

Jesus then changes track and refers to the events that surround the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem in Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24.

Christ's shift to answering the second question (re the future second coming) comes in Matthew 24:23, Mark 13:21 and Luke 21:25. These are all parallel accounts. Our Lord describes events that will precede His return, and then speaks about that climactic event also. The detail re generation speaks that genea alive when He returns in power and glory. The subject in view continues until the end of each respective chapter.

Lets deal with your "change track" theory.

Here is Matthew 24:22 (clearly still speaking of AD70!)

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

Did you know Nebuchadnezzars besieged on Jerusalem lasted for nearly 18 months! Read it in 2 Kings 25:1-4; Jeremiah 39:2, 52:6, Ezek 24:1.

This siege in AD70 was to last for 5-6 months!! “No flesh saved” estimates of slain range from 600,000 to 1.1 million! If this seige had continued throughout all the land the country could have been de-populated. But for the “Elect’s sake” Jewish Christians it was cut short!

Here is Matthew 24:23

At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.

(at that time is referring to events leading up to AD70 which the Lord has been providing! It's a continuation of thoght!)

Why?

“False prophets shall arise” - cp I John 4:1; 2 Pet 2:1; I Tim 4:1; 2 Thess 2:7 etc. even though they show “Great signs and wonders” - like Simon in Acts 8:9-11; Elymas in Acts 13:6. Also 2 Thess 2:9; Rev 13:13-14.

What you don't realise is this discourse is primarily for the believers in Jerusalem to heed the many speecific signs to get out before destruction comes.

So unfortunately, your own words and references support this OP, that these were the "last days" of Israels commonwealth and that the Lord provided them all the warnings to get out which as you know many did - a lot fleeing to Pella.

This is very different to the "thief coming in the night" of Revelation 16 which is our Olivet Prophecy concerning our age.

And if you wanted more proof you have verse 27

For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

The lightening of his judgements would be unmistakeble. And his (“Parousia”) with his “presence” as seen in the Roman armies.

He already gave you his teaching on this time in Matt 22:7

The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

And then there is the symbol of the eagles (Rome) in the next verse (V28) where the carcusses will be gathered there will the eagles be gathered.



A sense of irony their shields have both the wings of eagles and bolts of lightning!

All the signs were there if you have the impetus to look.

The answer to the second question relates to the first!

F2F

 

[ewq1938]

You don't know then.
The Bible reveals many enemies through history...you just need to know when in History Rev 11 took place.

Rev 11 is future. The two prophets have not been killed nor resurrected nor risen into heaven. Their 1260 days haven't even started yet.

It is said the greatest achievement the devil accomplished was convincing the world he didn't exist. The second was to convince some that prophecy has already happened so they won't be looking for an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period. Equally genius is how he convinced some of the other side, pre-trib futurists, that they will be gone so no worrying about an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period.

 

[face2face]

Rev 11 is future.

Revelation is continuous historical just like the prophecies in Daniel and Ezekiel!

The two prophets have not been killed nor resurrected nor risen into heaven. Their 1260 days haven't even started yet.

They have been and gone! We are living in Revelation 16!

It is said the greatest achievement the devil accomplished was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Who is the false accuser?
And where is this accuser in Revelation 11?

The second was to convince some that prophecy has already happened so they won't be looking for an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period.

So decieved is your understanding of the Revelation it hurts the eyes reading your posts.

Equally genius is how he convinced some of the other side, pre-trib futurists, that they will be gone so no worrying about an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period.

Giving credit to a being which doesnt exist - wow you place deception upon deception.

I will pre-empt your response to this reply and guess you will say the beast is your devil!

So predictable.....but please prove me wrong by actually identiying the beast system which is in the world today!

F2F

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation is continuous historical

No, it isn't.


It is said the greatest achievement the devil accomplished was convincing the world he didn't exist. The second was to convince some that prophecy has already happened so they won't be looking for an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period. Equally genius is how he convinced some of the other side, pre-trib futurists, that they will be gone so no worrying about an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period.

Both Theological positions are created by the devil to deceive.

 

[face2face]

No, it isn't.


It is said the greatest achievement the devil accomplished was convincing the world he didn't exist. The second was to convince some that prophecy has already happened so they won't be looking for an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period. Equally genius is how he convinced some of the other side, pre-trib futurists, that they will be gone so no worrying about an antichrist or false messiah to come for a GT period.

Both Theological positions are created by the devil to deceive.

Can you see your problem in these discussions? If everything is future, you have no roadmap to Christ's return! You cannot see the many visions scattered throughout the Revelation which gave those alive in that historical period hope and comfort. Each vision suggesting Christ was imminent. Let's make this easy on you. Take Revelation 6 - why Horses? What does the symbol represent? How did the early churches know it related to their times?

 

[face2face]

Matthew 24:7

The disciples would have been attentive to the signs of their times and each time one of these was presented, it would have strengthened their resolve to preach the Good News into the then known kingdoms of men (Roman Empire).

For nation will rise up in arms against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

There are recorded disturbances in Europe, Africa, Gaul, Parthia and severe “Famines” in the days of Claudius Caesar AD 37 – 41. Josephus
records one affecting Jerusalem Acts 11:28

One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)

This is what I love about the Word of God and the Continuous Historical method it uses in conveying prophecy...we have the Word of God which provides its own evidence - what does the Futurist have?

Did you know history also records numerous "Earthquakes” during the period between the crucifixion and AD 70 in Rome, Phrygia, Apamea, Crete, Achaiah, Syria, Macedonia.

The true disciples of the Lord (and the rebellious Jews) were given ample warning to get out of Jerusalem - many didnt listen and remain with the Zealots.

F2F

 

[ewq1938]

Can you see your problem in these discussions? If everything is future, you have no roadmap to Christ's return!

That would be the problem with thinking everything is already fulfilled.

You cannot see the many visions scattered throughout the Revelation which gave those alive in that historical period hope and comfort.

Prophecy is about the future, and often distant future like the AC, GT and the Coming. Believing they are fulfilled is like burning the road map.

Each vision suggesting Christ was imminent.

That's also false.

Let's make this easy on you. Take Revelation 6 - why Horses? What does the symbol represent?

Travel/something arriving or happening. It doesn't mean literal horse riding in the first century.

 

[face2face]

Prophecy is about the future, and often distant future like the AC, GT and the Coming. Believing they are fulfilled is like burning the road map.

Yes wonderful response!

For the first & second century believers imagine them reading the first verse!

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, Rev 1:1

Do you know what is awe inspiring about those words?

For every generation this "what must soon take place" applied.

I wonder if you have the wisdom to know why?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Anytime personal insults are used, it means you have lost the debate.

I'm waiting for you to start! Lets see how you handle the last post.
And saying if someone lacks a spiritual compass is far from a personal insult...I guess it depends on one sensitivities.
F2F

 

[ewq1938]

For the first & second century believers imagine them reading the first verse!

Imagine anyone reading a prophecy that was just written or spoken aloud back in the OT....many/most prophecies wouldn't happen in someone's lifetime.

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, Rev 1:1

Some would, but not all. There is another verse to consider:

Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Again, some things might happen soon (soonish like decades are "soon"?) and some might be very very far into the future which is the case for most of Rev.

Do you know what is awe inspiring about those words?

For every generation this "what must soon take place" applied.

Maybe this current generation might see them soon take place too!

I wonder if you have the wisdom to know why?

I wonder why people wonder.

 

[face2face]

Imagine anyone reading a prophecy that was just written or spoken aloud back in the OT....many/most prophecies wouldn't happen in someone's lifetime.

Many would! AD70 is a typical example though many foolishly resist.

Some would, but not all. There is another verse to consider:

Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Again, some things might happen soon (soonish like decades are "soon"?) and some might be very very far into the future which is the case for most of Rev.



Maybe this current generation might see them soon take place too!






I wonder why people wonder.

So, speak to the Historical context of the Four Horsemen which proceeds the letters to the Seven Churches.
What do the Horse periods represent?

 

[ewq1938]

So, speak to the Historical context of the Four Horsemen which proceeds the letters to the Seven Churches.

Contextually Christ opened the seals in the 1st century when he arrived in heaven but the seals provide info of future events, not events happening when the seals are opened.

What do the Horse periods represent?

They are future periods/events related to the GT. None of the events or periods are of the past.

 

[face2face]

Contextually Christ opened the seals in the 1st century when he arrived in heaven but the seals provide info of future events, not events happening when the seals are opened.



They are future periods/events related to the GT. None of the events or periods are of the past.

Very discriptive...it would be easy for you to say you dont know...but you were "hot" in your opening point!

 

[ewq1938]

it would be easy for you to say you dont know...

Even easier for you to. History is on my side because certain events are too unique and specific to have ever happened before.

 

[face2face]

Even easier for you to. History is on my side because certain events are too unique and specific to have ever happened before.

This is laughable as you are yet to provide one!