The error of the Pharisee
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We have also added and subtracted.
We have added that our salvation is certainly to glory, no matter what we do.
We have subtracted the warnings given that if we are unfaithful servants we will be cut off from the vine.
We have added that our salvation is certainly to glory, no matter what we do.
We have subtracted the warnings given that if we are unfaithful servants we will be cut off from the vine.
Robbie
New Member
He actually says that us not abiding in Him is the reason we don't bare fruit... to abide means to stay, contiinue, to have a relationship with... it doesn't mean to try and be good enough for God... and I'll never abide in anything for salvation other than Him... especially not the filthy rags of my works... so you're the one making it say something it doesn't say... and by doing so denying Him in the process... because once again it's all about Him... and you keep adding yourself into the equation.
Robbie
New Member
There's no arrogance in denying yourself and placing faith in your salvation completely in Christ... arrogance, ego and pride is putting faith in self...
And since when was believing Jesus spiritual arrogance or a sin?
John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
And since when was believing Jesus spiritual arrogance or a sin?
John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
Yes. Thinking that somehow being born again means we don't have to keep moving forward and bear fruit is the same mistake. We are to do the good works prepared in advance and be faithful in those.
Acts 9 tells us of the story of Ananias. One day, praying in his closet, the Lord tells him 'go to a street called Straight, you will find a man named Saul, restore his vision'!
The Holy Spirit is like the wind, and the ones led of the Spirit also. No one knows where they come from and where they go. It is impossible to abide in Christ and yet not move (spiritually) and grow. The Spirit is somewhere, and we are there with him. Then he moves. We must follow him to abide in him!
And that is true, only that doesn't imply that the one who comes cannot decide to leave or not follow. When we come, he accepts us, but we can still deny him after.
Robbie
New Member
And how do we leave Him? How do we become estranged from Him?
This is the writer of Galatians opinion...
Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
This is the writer of Galatians opinion...
Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5
[sup]5[/sup] For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope (not assurance!) of righteousness by faith. [sup]6[/sup] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Yes, faith has to work, that avails to something. (Faith without works is dead)
[sup]16[/sup] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. [sup]17[/sup] For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. [sup]18[/sup] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
How are we not under the law?
[sup]22[/sup] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [sup]23[/sup] gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
If we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law against us. So what does it come down to? Walking in the Spirit. Yes, it matters that we do that.
[sup]24[/sup] And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [sup]25[/sup] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
We have been made alive in the Spirit, now our responsability is to walk by that Spirit.
[sup]5[/sup] For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope (not assurance!) of righteousness by faith. [sup]6[/sup] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Yes, faith has to work, that avails to something. (Faith without works is dead)
[sup]16[/sup] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. [sup]17[/sup] For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. [sup]18[/sup] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
How are we not under the law?
[sup]22[/sup] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [sup]23[/sup] gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
If we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law against us. So what does it come down to? Walking in the Spirit. Yes, it matters that we do that.
[sup]24[/sup] And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [sup]25[/sup] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
We have been made alive in the Spirit, now our responsability is to walk by that Spirit.
Robbie
New Member
How are we estranged from Christ? By thinking we're justified by keeping the Law...
How do we have righteousness? By faith in Him... He's our righteousness.
Why do we have faith working through Love? Because our faith is in Him first loving us with His perfect Love and He demonstrated that by paying the price for our sins on the cross... sanctifying us by His blood... and the one who's forgiven much loves much.
And of course there is no law against doing right... that doesn't change the fact that keeping the law that's against what's wrong isn't what saves us... and if we try and save ourselves by keeping that law we've fallen from grace... so there's no law against doing right... that doesn't change the fact that if you think you're saved by keeping the law you're a stranger to Christ.
And yes... my flesh and all it's passions and desires are hanging on the cross with Jesus... all glory to Him for taking care of that for me!!!
You can't even hear what that says because you read it with the eyes of pride... you make it all about you... and that's why you come out of it with legalism... and a curse... without assurance of salvation... because by trying to be justified by the law you've become estranged from Christ.
How do we have righteousness? By faith in Him... He's our righteousness.
Why do we have faith working through Love? Because our faith is in Him first loving us with His perfect Love and He demonstrated that by paying the price for our sins on the cross... sanctifying us by His blood... and the one who's forgiven much loves much.
And of course there is no law against doing right... that doesn't change the fact that keeping the law that's against what's wrong isn't what saves us... and if we try and save ourselves by keeping that law we've fallen from grace... so there's no law against doing right... that doesn't change the fact that if you think you're saved by keeping the law you're a stranger to Christ.
And yes... my flesh and all it's passions and desires are hanging on the cross with Jesus... all glory to Him for taking care of that for me!!!
You can't even hear what that says because you read it with the eyes of pride... you make it all about you... and that's why you come out of it with legalism... and a curse... without assurance of salvation... because by trying to be justified by the law you've become estranged from Christ.
So it's a lie when it says 'not the hearers of the law, but the doers of the law are justified'?
Jesus tells the rich young ruler to keep the law.
The wrong is not to keep the law, that is good, it is to justify oneself by the keeping of the law. Otherwise scripture is wrong when it says the doers of the law are justified. They are, but not by themselves, that would break the law, but by God.
We've been called to something more, though. Christ has given us a share in the new creation, that we might walk by the Spirit. If we are alive in the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Jesus tells the rich young ruler to keep the law.
The wrong is not to keep the law, that is good, it is to justify oneself by the keeping of the law. Otherwise scripture is wrong when it says the doers of the law are justified. They are, but not by themselves, that would break the law, but by God.
We've been called to something more, though. Christ has given us a share in the new creation, that we might walk by the Spirit. If we are alive in the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
I probably wrote that poorly my English skills have slipped since college. John 15:1 Jesus says I am the true vine and my father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch in me that does bear fruit he prunes. Obviously the Pharisees are not beneath producing fruit, but neither are they above being cut off. As John 15:6 states "if anyone does not remain in me he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are picked up thrown away in the fire and burned."
Robbie
New Member
By sin Robbie, I mean look at pastor Ted Haggard I'm not saying you are like that or anything, but the man was preaching antihomosexual christianity on Sunday and having meth induced gay sex on Monday. Im pretty sure that is about as fruitless as it gets. Ok that's a horrible example but maybe he was very spiritually lazy or slothful which is a deadly sin. From what I understand that kind of hippocrasy is what the Pharisees of that day were commiting. We see this in the catholic church all the time.
Robbie
New Member
Prentis,
Jesus said the Law wouldn't pass away until all was fulfilled... when He said, "It is Finished" it was fulfilled and it has passed away.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete.
Notice once again it's about Him being merciful to our unrighteousness? Notice how it's about Him not remembering our lawlessness?
It aint about you dude... and if you make it about you... you're estranged from Christ and you've fallen into the same snare as the devil.
It's all about Him... it's all His glory... you don't want to accept that... that's why you have no assurance..
Jesus said the Law wouldn't pass away until all was fulfilled... when He said, "It is Finished" it was fulfilled and it has passed away.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete.
Notice once again it's about Him being merciful to our unrighteousness? Notice how it's about Him not remembering our lawlessness?
It aint about you dude... and if you make it about you... you're estranged from Christ and you've fallen into the same snare as the devil.
It's all about Him... it's all His glory... you don't want to accept that... that's why you have no assurance..
Robbie
New Member
haha... I don't know Ted Haggard so I have nothing to say about him... but my belief is someone who struggles with sex and drug addiction would have a better chance of being protected from condemnation by Jesus when the religious dragged him out to be stoned to death... more so than condemned by Jesus...
lol well Jesus would never do such a thing so that is one way out of Jesus. Of course he was forgiven many times and warned by God and others to stop and refused to repent.
Robbie
New Member
Here's a good example :)
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.[sup][a][/sup] In fact, I do not even judge myself. [sup]4[/sup] For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord
Even though a man know nothing against himself, ie, he follows the law or believes the Lord, he cannot judge himself, because THEN he has broken the law and faith, because he has taken God's place over his life as judge.
It is an error possible both to the Pharisee, and the Christian.
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.[sup][a][/sup] In fact, I do not even judge myself. [sup]4[/sup] For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord
Even though a man know nothing against himself, ie, he follows the law or believes the Lord, he cannot judge himself, because THEN he has broken the law and faith, because he has taken God's place over his life as judge.
It is an error possible both to the Pharisee, and the Christian.
What I have noticed about the 'love instead of Bible' crowd is how they defend living in sin consistently, eternal security, judging others, pointing fingers... Ah the love
And judging Bible believers.
And judging Bible believers.
goodshepard55
New Member
Darling I hate to disagree...but we are not worthy of His sacrifice and never will be worthy of the cross...We are assured eternity with the Lord Jesus Christ once we accept Him as our Lord and Savior...All we have to do is believe in Him, not ourselves, trust Him to transform us to His likeness, cause sugar we sure can't do it on our own or by striving to become worthy..We are worthy because He is Worthy, and as long as He lives in me..I am Worthy...but not by working for it, but by believing Him and His Word....
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