The error of the Pharisee

[jiggyfly]

What I have noticed about the 'love instead of Bible' crowd is how they defend living in sin consistently, eternal security, judging others, pointing fingers... Ah the love

And judging Bible believers.

Who have you noticed living in sin consistently, ducky?
There are some here who seem to possess that characteristic of pointing fingers and flaming but Iv'e not noticed it in the group you mentioned.

 

[Prentis]

Darling I hate to disagree...but we are not worthy of His sacrifice and never will be worthy of the cross...We are assured eternity with the Lord Jesus Christ once we accept Him as our Lord and Savior...All we have to do is believe in Him, not ourselves, trust Him to transform us to His likeness, cause sugar we sure can't do it on our own or by striving to become worthy..We are worthy because He is Worthy, and as long as He lives in me..I am Worthy...but not by working for it, but by believing Him and His Word....

I half agree! :) It is because it is him who lives in us, and it is by his power. But by HIS power, we are to become worthy.

Colossians 1:10
that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2 Thessalonians 1:11
Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,

We have received so much grace, and if we do not respond worthily and bear fruit, we will be cut off. The Lord is loving and patient to teach us, of course we are not born knowing how. But we do need to learn and to fear the Lord. Otherwise we'll need to ignore half the scriptures!

 

[Robbie]

Those are great scriptures Prentis... and heck ya... He died for our sins... He became our salvation... of course we want to please Him... but that has nothing to do with salvation...

Wanting to do right for Jesus because of His love for us has nothing to do with trying to stand before God in our own righteousness... or thinking we need to add something to the blood of Jesus to make it effective for our salvation.

So you're mistaken... and what is it that makes you think it's about you other than your pride?

 

[Prentis]

What about the parable of the ten virgins? What about the parable of the talents?

I concede your point; those people are saved. They do not taste the second death. But they are saved to eternal shame.

It's not about me. But what 'me' does certainly matters. I'm not God's favorite, and if I deny him before men (in word or simply deed) he will deny me before the Father. How can we think that, after God has given us so much, somehow we aren't expected to do more?

It would be crazy to think that somehow we are God's favorites and we can just sit around. Salvation from death is received to the man who believes yes, but whether he will be raised again for eternal shame or eternal glory remains to be seen.

What, we don't have a race to run?

 

[Robbie]

That's good enough for me Prentis... know you're saved... have assurance because of Christ alone... and yes... live your life to please Him... give up your life for Him and He'll hook you up with a life that's way better... live to please Him... He's worthy of that since He died for you on the cross... since it's because of Him that you're saved.

But don't ever think for a second that you have anything to do with your salvation other than whether you receive the free gift or reject it...

This is the place of humility where you will truly abide in Him because you know that no matter how good or bad you are... you have no salvation apart from Him...

This is what will keep you humble and out of the snare of the devil... where pride wont puff you up... and where you won't start looking down your nose at others because you realize there's no one on this planet that you're better than... because without Christ we're all under the same condemnation... this humble relationship with our savior is what bares fruit to the world...

Love ya buddy...

 

[goodshepard55]

Darling Prentis...God loves us all the same...He does have favorites..we all are His favorites...He does not love one more than the other...Love is God...The Word tells us all that we have the eternal life...Not shame or eternal glory...We have eternal life in Christ Jesus...

John 3:

15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Right there in the Word....whoever believes in Him has eternal life...Don't have to do anything but believe

 

[Prentis]

Darling Prentis...God loves us all the same...He does have favorites..we all are His favorites...He does not love one more than the other...Love is God...The Word tells us all that we have the eternal life...Not shame or eternal glory...We have eternal life in Christ Jesus...

John 3:

15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Right there in the Word....whoever believes in Him has eternal life...Don't have to do anything but believe

Yes, God loves all. And yet he tells us some wil die in the pit, and some will go to eternal shame, then how can you say that his love simply means we are saved 'no matter what'?

So does that contradict the scripture that says 'he who loves me will obey my commandments' and 'faith without works is dead'?

Guys and gals, I love you, but you use one verse and interpret it in such a way that it makes another verse false. I know you'll disagree on that. But then why can you never explain these scriptures in a way that doesn't brush them aside, but puts the onus on their meaning?

That's good enough for me Prentis... know you're saved... have assurance because of Christ alone... and yes... live your life to please Him... give up your life for Him and He'll hook you up with a life that's way better... live to please Him... He's worthy of that since He died for you on the cross... since it's because of Him that you're saved.

But don't ever think for a second that you have anything to do with your salvation other than whether you receive the free gift or reject it...

This is the place of humility where you will truly abide in Him because you know that no matter how good or bad you are... you have no salvation apart from Him...

This is what will keep you humble and out of the snare of the devil... where pride wont puff you up... and where you won't start looking down your nose at others because you realize there's no one on this planet that you're better than... because without Christ we're all under the same condemnation... this humble relationship with our savior is what bares fruit to the world...

Love ya buddy...

Again, love you bro. But you the scriptures never talk about assurance. They talk about hope... Christ in us, the HOPE of glory! You remain unable to explain these verses. I know you'll say I'm proud for saying this brother... But all I mean to say is 'here's the evidence, why is everyone dodging the bullet?'

[sup]1[/sup] Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. [sup]2[/sup] Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. [sup]3[/sup] But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.[sup][a][/sup] In fact, I do not even judge myself. [sup]4[/sup] For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. [sup]5[/sup] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

 

[Robbie]

It only sounds like we're making it false to you because we're balancing the scriptures you've taken out of context and twisted by making Christ the foundation of our understanding... so we're really just testifying that your interpretation of a sentence taken out of context is what's false... but actually understanding all scripture with Christ as the foundation and reading everything in context built on Him is how you truly understand scripture... you haven't been building on Him and that's why you don't feel assured of your salvation nor do you understand the scriptures...

But I thought you already agreed that your own righteousness has no relevance to your salvation?

So I thought you were going to start building on Him now?

 

[Prentis]

What I have presented you agrees with the scriptures you have presented me, yes, we have a free gift, that is that we are saved from our old life. Only I add, which is were we disagree, that if a servant is not faithful with this gift and does not run and bear fruit with it, he would be 'tied hand and foot and cast in outer darkness'.

You have not yet explained the scripture I gave you, but rather brush them away.

Build on him??? The way you talk, we don't have to do any building! ;) See what I'm getting at?

 

[Robbie]

What scripture? Provide it again... which one are you talking about...

And what do you mean the way I talk? You're full of it... just three post ago I wrote to you...

"live your life to please Him... give up your life for Him and He'll hook you up with a life that's way better... live to please Him... He's worthy of that since He died for you on the cross... since it's because of Him that you're saved."

That me telling you to build on Him... so quit baring false witness...

As far as whether that's what saves us... I agree with this...

For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Rewards has nothing to do with salvation...

So once again... your taking scriptures and adding to them or twisting them in order for them to support your false man made religion...

 

[Prentis]

I conceded that point to you, and gladly do it again! Salvation is received. But that just means you don't die.We get to live in outer darkness forever if we are unfaithful... Worth warning people, don't you think, and worth fearing ourselves! :huh: It was said of Judas that it would be better for him had he never been born. Living in outer darkness forever is NOT ok 'because atleast I'm not dead, even if I don't have rewards'.

 

[jiggyfly]

I conceded that point to you, and gladly do it again! Salvation is received. But that just means you don't die.We get to live in outer darkness forever if we are unfaithful... Worth warning people, don't you think, and worth fearing ourselves! :huh: It was said of Judas that it would be better for him had he never been born. Living in outer darkness forever is NOT ok 'because atleast I'm not dead, even if I don't have rewards'.

Prentis, do a word study on Hebrew word olam, and Greek words aion, and aionios.

 

[Robbie]

Outer darkness is death Prentis... separation from God is death... if you're saved you will not be in outer darkness...

The reason why the person was cast out into outer darkness is because He lived his life never coming to know God... and lived a life based on a false perception of who He is...

If he had known God he never would have accused God of being a hard man... notice what caused him to hide his talent? He was afraid of God... when you have a revelation of God's perfect Love it casts out fear... you can only come to that revelation through Christ alone...

So He wasn't saved because he never came to know God through Christ...

And yes... if we reject the only way to know the Father... and the only way to salvation... Jesus Christ... yes... we should fear God... and no... we're not assured of salvation...

What is it that causes you to try and know God or to be saved without Christ other than self reliance... which is direct result of pride... the same snare that caught the devil.

 

[Prentis]

I'm done guys... We're just going in circles... God bless you both! :)

 

[FHII]

I conceded that point to you, and gladly do it again! Salvation is received. But that just means you don't die.We get to live in outer darkness forever if we are unfaithful... Worth warning people, don't you think, and worth fearing ourselves! :huh: It was said of Judas that it would be better for him had he never been born. Living in outer darkness forever is NOT ok 'because atleast I'm not dead, even if I don't have rewards'.

So Prentis, where do you stand on this doctrine of love? I have a mixed feeling about you. I think you like it, but understand that doctrine and truth guide it. Do you hate that people -- especially preachers -- talk about it so much? I don't like it either, but I think it's an unpleasant topic that is a necessity. After all, Jesus talked about it.

Would you argee with me if I said that God doesn't love all people? You don't have to answer that right now. Just consider the question. Some other questions to consider: Did David love all people, and if he did, how? What did he pray about for them? What about Paul? Did he love all? That's a loaded question.

Here's a loaded question for not only Prentis, but for all. Do you really love your enemy? Form your answer now....

Did you form your answer? OK. Now I ask you.... WHo is your enemy? Mine is Satan.

Do you love Satan? Is he your real enemy? No. I don't love my enemy. Yikes, perhaps I'm not following this love doctrine.

Do you love your enemy? Sure, I don't like Robbie. Sure, I don't like Obama. Sure, I don't like the Pope. Sure, I don't like the Ne York Yankees. My enemy? Don't insult my enemy by suggesting they are he!

Because I hate my enemy with perfect hatred! Robbie, Obama, the Pope an the Yankees are imps compared to my real enemy. You are all like little mosiquoteos. Except maybe the Pope, who is leading many to hell -- Umm... I mean pergatory or some other place..... Cause the gospel of Love doesn't allow us to tell folks... You are damned.

 

[Prentis]

So Prentis, where do you stand on this doctrine of love? I have a mixed feeling about you. I think you like it, but understand that doctrine and truth guide it. Do you hate that people -- especially preachers -- talk about it so much? I don't like it either, but I think it's an unpleasant topic that is a necessity. After all, Jesus talked about it.

Would you argee with me if I said that God doesn't love all people? You don't have to answer that right now. Just consider the question. Some other questions to consider: Did David love all people, and if he did, how? What did he pray about for them? What about Paul? Did he love all? That's a loaded question.

Here's a loaded question for not only Prentis, but for all. Do you really love your enemy? Form your answer now....

Did you form your answer? OK. Now I ask you.... WHo is your enemy? Mine is Satan.

Do you love Satan? Is he your real enemy? No. I don't love my enemy. Yikes, perhaps I'm not following this love doctrine.

Do you love your enemy? Sure, I don't like Robbie. Sure, I don't like Obama. Sure, I don't like the Pope. Sure, I don't like the Ne York Yankees. My enemy? Don't insult my enemy by suggesting they are he!

Because I hate my enemy with perfect hatred! Robbie, Obama, the Pope an the Yankees are imps compared to my real enemy. You are all like little mosiquoteos. Except maybe the Pope, who is leading many to hell -- Umm... I mean pergatory or some other place..... Cause the gospel of Love doesn't allow us to tell folks... You are damned.

My understanding of it is this.

We cannot judge, and those who do not know Christ, we love, as he loved us. If God empowers, we preach the gospel. The Gospel speaks both of the love of God, that he would accept us if we turn to him, and also of the punishment that will come on the wicked. Both love without correction and correction without love are incomplete.

God is impartial, and so loves all in the sense that he gives all a chance, and he DOES want all to turn to him. But he is not pleased with all, that is certain, and he hates their deeds and what they do.

God says love your enemy, and do not resist him; if he slaps you on the cheek turn the other. But he also says resist the devil. We don't love the enemy of our souls, all that is in him is darkness. But men are just men like us, and we know they are deceived. Thus if they persecute us we cry 'forgive them Lord, they know not what they do'. We must love those who are alienated from God and do not know him. The devil, we do not speak haughtily against him, following Michael's example, but we do resist him, and allow him to have now ground on us. We must indeed hate what God hates.

We love men, as Christ loved all, and wishes for all to come to repentance. But we are to hate what God hates, like the deeds of the Nicolaitans. Did Jesus love the Pharisees when he turned over their tables? Yes. His heart wishes for all to come to him. But 'soft' love, the worlds definition of love is not his love. We must love God first, and hate what separates us from him. We must burn with zeal for the Lord's house.

 

[Robbie]

I don't hate you FHII... I've already dealt with your behavior so many times in my walk in different religious people...

There was a time when I was younger when I'd freak out and react... but God's worked on me a lot over the years in dealing with it all glory to Him...

Now I just kind of accept that's what the religious spirit works in people...

So no worries... and just so you know I literally LOL'd when you said you hated me, Obama, and the Pope... hahahahahahahaha... especially considering you don't even really know any of us...

 

[Duckybill]

Who have you noticed living in sin consistently, ducky?

Obviously Jiggy, those who defend living in sin. Why else would they defend living in sin?

There are some here who seem to possess that characteristic of pointing fingers and flaming but Iv'e not noticed it in the group you mentioned.

Hint: It's those who are trying to replace the Bible with phoney 'love'.

 

[Duckybill]

We seem to have 2 distinct groups here. Those who believe in obeying the NT and pleasing God, and those who have forsaken the NT for phoney love. The wheat and the tares.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Many of you 'Christians' are going to be rejected on Judgment Day. You can't say you weren't warned.

 

[Robbie]

It's about knowing Him Duckybill... the ones who didn't know Him were those He told to depart from Him... and if you really think you're even close to living up to His level of righteousness... which is the only righteousness that can enter into heaven based on works... that's just proof you don't know Him at all...

It's like someone who shoots in the 130s thinking they're almost as good a golfer as Tiger Woods... haha... it's obvious you don't know how good He really is...

And yeah... it is being divided into two groups...

Those who live by pride and think Christ is just an ingredient in them earning their own salvation which glorifies themselves... and those who have humbled themselves in the sight of the Lord and see themselves hung on the cross with Jesus and accept that He is their righteousness and give all the glory to Him...

I'm really stoked we all had this talk... talking about scripture and religion kind of clouds everything... but talking about Christ really shows where people are at...