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The Explanation Of Speaking In Tongues

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Jimmy Engle, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    You know what TexUs I am going to surprise you and tell you that you are right! Again.... I cannot defend the guy...But this is sadly true for most TV evangelists. David Cerrello spends a good amount of time asking for money and then builds a $2,000,000 house there in South Carolina.

    http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2009/07/03/david-cerullo-builds-mansion-while-ministry-suffers/


    It's hard to follow people in general in this Laodicean church age. I would love to get behind God's man in prayer and in finance. Even a lot of local preachers treat their position as a career move instead of a ministry.
     
  2. TexUs

    TexUs New Member

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    Isn't that the truth.

    I'm not discounting education by any means but the advent of seminary and "Hey, this piece of paper says I'm legit" - hasn't helped that point at all.
    Neither have the many churches that bought into that nonsense. (Go ahead, read some of the "looking for pastor" ads, it'll list a seminary graduate and not much else).
     
  3. Foreigner

    Foreigner New Member

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    I heard a senior pastor marvel at the fact that the junior pastors only felt "called" to move to different cities that paid more and offered greater benefits.
     
  4. TexUs

    TexUs New Member

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    Yeah.

    Again, it's both sides. The pastors do that.

    But the churches hiring them don't do their work, either.

    Buddy of mine spoke at a youth conference one time and after speaking (for 40 minutes) they offered him a head pastorship job.
    The Bible says they must be:
    Above reproach
    Husband of but one wife
    Sober Minded
    Self Controlled
    Respectable
    Hospitable
    Able to Teach
    Not a Drunkard
    Not Violent but Gentle
    Not Quarrelsome
    Not a Lover of Money
    Manage his household well
    Keep his children submissive
    Not be a recent convert
    Good reputation

    How many of those points (Most people don't realize the Bible actually contains these qualifications) did the church that offered him that job after 40 minutes of speaking did they actually verify? "Able to Teach"??? Well, congratulations but you missed a dozen more items.
     
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    I have a couple of degrees and have noticed that my professors do not come to work in luxury cars. As a matter of fact their cars are kind of beat up looking. The reason why is because the professor's treasure is not in material things but in his profession. He would rather come up with some significant scientific discovery rather than win a million dollars in the lottery.

    A Christians treasures ought not be on the things of this earth... But in the good he does here on earth. Not even because of heavenly rewards but it is because that is where is passion is.

    Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him? - Isaiah 40:13

    Regarding the Baptism who am I to judge the amount of Spirit in a Christian's heart? I will say however that the parable of the lost coins fits our time well...

    Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? - Luke 15:8

    and knowest not that thou art... - Revelation 3:17

    I believe the ten pieces of silver are represented of the value of spiritual things in our life. The issue with Laodicea I believe is that they have lost the coins... "And knowest not" that they have lost the coins. In which any Pentecostal worth his weight in salt will tell you that there are issues with folks who fail to possess the things they profess! If we profess to have the Holy Spirit lets walk in its wonderful and glorious light and energy!
     
  6. TexUs

    TexUs New Member

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    Or, in reality, it's because a very large chunk of their paycheck is going toward paying off their PHD.

     
  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    I'm not oneness Pentecostal... The Pentecostals that came down the Methodist church line aren't either. There are Pentecostal branches that believe that you are not saved unless you are filled with the Holy Ghost. But the Church of God, Pentecostal Holiness, Congregational Holiness, and Assembly of God denominations, that which came down the Methodist line, believe the Baptism of the Holy Spirit can be attained with the speaking of tongues when you come to a place where you are ready for it. The people that I know that are oneness Pentecostal have very little E / c2 (Warmth, love, faith, hope, and charity). Oneness Pentecostals believe that unless you speak in tongues you have not been filled with the Holy Ghost and thus are going to hell.

    So we have the Methodist doctrine...

    Justification - Acquiring of faith
    Salvation - The sinners prayer
    Sanctification - A sweet spirit
    Baptism in the Holy Spirit - With the speaking of tongues (for our empowerment)

    Doctrines of the Holy Ghost and Speaking of Tongues - Smith Wigglesworth

    For sixteen years Smith Wigglesworth preached that he had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when in fact he had only received the anointing of the spirit. He explains that it was though he was on the outside of the Garden of Eden looking in. But after he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it was as though he had regained access to the Garden of Eden, with the Holy Spirit serving as the fiery sword keeping evil out while he tasted of the good of the Lord. Smith Wigglesworth believed that there were three variations of tongues:

    • The initial tongues giving upon baptism.
    • The tongues spoken in prayer not meant to be interpreted.
    • The tongues given out with a purpose of being interpreted to your native language.
    Smith Wigglesworth reminds his audience that since he left their presence, they do not know what he has done. He may have lost anointing or favor with God. He might be like people who have lived holy lives, preached sanctification, and their initial tongues were helpful; but they are now in a backslidden condition… A life not worthy of the language… Something got in the way. They have kept their language, but have lost their zeal and fire. Therefore Smith Wigglesworth Re-emphasizes…

    • Go two days without growing… You have lost your vision!
    • Go a week without growing… You are a backslider!
    Smith Wigglesworth encourages people to grow daily into the kingdom. He said that he would rather hear Christians who knew not the power of God, but were growing; than hear people who received the fullness of the power of God, and were now self-satisfied. But of course he would rather hear those who knew the power of God, and kept their experience updated. Smith Wigglesworth also reemphasizes that, like the apostles, he did very little for the kingdom of God before he got the Holy Ghost... with the speaking in tongues... in a Pentecostal Church.

    Smith Wigglesworth also emphasizes that the Giver is to be received before the gifts. Salvation always precedes sanctification, and sanctification will always precede the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification prepares the body for the Holy Spirit, and when the body is rightly prepared for the Holy Spirit, and then it is the work of Jesus to baptize with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then makes Jesus king in your life; you regard him as Lord and Master over all things, and you become submissive to him in all things. You are not afraid to say, “You are mine! I love you!”


    Discernment, Sanctification, and Deception
    Smith Wigglesworth, like his earlier Methodist mentors, believed discernment and sanctification as something that sweetens the spirit up, making people more spiritual and loving. His wife once testified that she knew Smith was sanctified when he quit complaining about his food. Wigglesworth states that we are sanctified so that nothing hinders us in the manifestation of the Glory of God. In this way we are robbed of all pride, evil, and freely led of the Spirit. Evil thoughts come from the unclean believer, the man who is not entirely sanctified.


    Concerning discernment Wigglesworth states, “Most people think they have discernment; but if they would turn their discernment on themselves for twelve months, they would never want to ‘discern’ again. The gift of discernment is not criticism. I am satisfied that in Pentecostal circles today, our paramount need is more perfect love. I have found many notable people in the world whom I know personally, who have gotten to running another person down and finding fault. They are always fault finding and judging people outright. God save us from criticism! When we are pure in heart we only think about pure things.”

    The difference between those being led by the Holy Spirit and those who are deceived by Satan is joy, gladness, and a good countenance instead of sadness, sorrow, and depression. Jesus comes with joy into the soul and lifts you higher and higher, it is the spirit who gives light. When satanic power begins to rule; then there is weariness, then people’s faces are like a tragedy, and then their eyes glare as though they have passed through a terrible trial. You are always right to test the spirits (1 John 4:1), if not you will be sure to be caught napping.
     
  8. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    Speaking in toungues can be the "toungue of angels" or the "toungue of man". Either way, it's another language. The Bible says we should pray for understanding if we have the gift. Obviously not everyone who has this gift knows what they're saying.

    There's also etiquite that should be followed.

    Speaking in tounges has it's time and place an purpose.
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    Agreed! It's almost a private thing between you and God. The Apostle Paul said that he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than those at Corinth. Yet while he was in church he would rather speak in a way that is civilized, decent, and in order!
     
  10. Anastacia

    Anastacia New Member

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    I read everything you wrote here about Wigglesworth's beliefs, and I just don't recognize anything as being from the word of God, except for one scripture quoted.
     
  11. australia

    australia New Member

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    Apostle Paul was simply multilingual; more so than those at Corinth.
     
  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Don't you mean your opinion of what the scriptures say?
     
  13. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    It's kinda like the path of John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress...

    Justification - The faith to make it out of the City of Destruction....
    The slough of despond - Brought about by religious melancholy
    Legalities mountain - Brought about by religions that dwell on the Old Testament
    Beelzebub castle - Satan's last effort to intimidate those seeking salvation
    Salvation - At the Wicket Gate
    Sanctification - Begins at the Porters House where the pilgrim gets godly counseling
    The Cross - The burdens and the weights fall off when the pilgrim understands the meaning of the cross.
    Difficulty Hill - Difficult trials for the new believer
    The Arbor - Can loose your spiritual good's in life's comfort zones if one is not careful!
    The Baptism in the Holy Ghost - At the Porters House - Also met with
    Discretion, Piety, Prudence, and Charity.
    Valley of Humiliation - Time for some testing
    Valley of the Shadow of Death - Time to battle with the devil!
    The Religious Giants - Avoiding the evils of the religious giants.
    Befriending Faithful - Befriending those of like faith help the journey along the way!
    Vanity Fair - Time to take that mature Christian walk of yours and witness to the world!
    Plain of Ease / Lucre Hill - Can get bogged down and unprofitable real fast here! Keep going mate!
    Giant Despair / Doubting Castle - Remember the promises of God are the keys that open the door!
    The Enchanted Ground - The Devil will try to vex you intellectually to make the wrong decisions.
    Beulah Land - Mature Christians faith shines brightly day and night! Has a good glimpse of the Celestial City from here!
    Oh My! On My! Sweet Beulah Land! With my light (faith, hope, charity) and energy (motivation) I will shout home from here!
    The Great River - Symbolic of death.
    Celestial City - The place of perfect light and energy.

    From this book is the foundation of the Methodist / Pentecostal faith. Which also is full of scripture by the way.The characters in this book who had the brightest light (faith, hope, and charity) and energy (motivation, warmth) fared a lot better than those who did not.

    [font="arial][size="3"]The man therefore read it, and looking upon Evangelist very carefully, said, "Whither must I fly?" Then said Evangelist, (pointing with his finger over a very wide field,) "Do you see yonder wicket-gate?" Matt. 7:13,14. The man said, "No." Then said the other, "Do you see yonder shining light?" Psalm 119:105; 2 Pet. 1:19. He said, "I think I do." Then said Evangelist, "Keep that light in your eye, and go up directly thereto, so shalt thou see the gate; at which, when thou knockest, it shall be told thee what thou shalt do." So I saw in my dream that the man began to run. Now he had not run far from his own door when his wife and children, perceiving it, began to cry after him to return; but the man put his fingers in his ears, and ran on crying, Life! life! eternal life! Luke 14:26.

    I take great delight in this sort of thing. My apologies for not including scriptures along the way!



    [/size][/font][font="arial][size="3"] [/size][/font]
     
  14. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    I hope that I have been respectful of others beliefs. I don't expect people to believe the same way I do. I was also a die hard Baptist at one time so I can understand people not seeing scripture like I do...

    Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. - Matthew 13:52

    To me these things are the treasures of my household. If your treasures are different from mine pull them out and show me! I am always interested in learning new things regarding the Kingdom of Heaven!
     
  15. Anastacia

    Anastacia New Member

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    You say "I hope I have been respectful of others beliefs." It's not respectful at all when you post that a person who is really baptized in the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues. Saying falseness such as that is going against and denying the thousand and thousands of true believers to whom Jesus gave His Spirit. It is not biblical. And it is more serious than you and others with your beliefs seem to realize.
     
  16. revturmoil

    revturmoil New Member

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    How can that be when tongues is meant for unbelievers? And how can tongues be validated if someone speaks in a language that nobody understands?

    Every Pentecostal I know has a misunderstanding of tongues.

    My question is...

    How can the gift of tongues be legitimate if someone speaks and someone interprets if the hearers cannot validate that what was spoken is what was interpreted?
     
  17. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    All I can say is that I have experienced the things I have spoken about.
     
  18. revturmoil

    revturmoil New Member

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    How do you know your experience is authentic and how can you prove that it was?
     
  19. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. - Acts 19:6


    I know my experience is authentic because it happened way down deep within my heart. One of the big troubles I have with the charismatic movement is that they teach people how to praise the Lord and worship. No body taught this to me. The Holy Ghost came upon me. It was not the tongues that were important but the spiritual goods attained way down in the inside. So it is the fact that I am a changed creation that is proof. I felt that I gave God my old tattered spiritual garments and he gave me a robe of pure white! Like a white mantle! I can tell you when those men got the Holy Ghost in Acts 19:6 that they felt it in their spirit first and then spake in tongues and prophesied next!

    Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: - Revelation 3:17

    People today are spiritually poor. So what good is teaching tongues? Maybe it is because of the materialistic nature of our society that this blessing is no longer occurring. Back when our church began there were no TV sets. People would have prayer meetings at home, revivals would go for weeks and last into the wee hours of the morning. The Holy Spirit would speak through people. I as a teenager grabbed a hold of these things and held on tight! Going to church was very exciting for me.

    I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. - Revelation 3:18

    I do not council people to 'get the Holy Ghost' these days. I basically tell them to pray and find them a good church and fall in with the believers. I work with dear Baptist ladies and I never mention Pentecost to them. I know deep inside for true Pentecost to occur takes a total sell out from the things of the world. Prayer meetings, fasting, total commitment, a pure heart, bible reading are needed for this blessing to reoccur. If you want it there is a price to pay for it.

    I have no problem with the issues people have with me on this one as there are too many people who fail to possess the thing they profess.

    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. -Mark 16:17-18



    This blessing was not promised to only the Apostles but to everyone that believes!
     
  20. Anastacia

    Anastacia New Member

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    What does this statement from you have to do with what I said to you?

    This is what I said to you....

    Now, tell me, what does your personal experience have to do with telling others they haven't been baptized in the Holy Spirit because they don't speak in tongues?
     
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