The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation

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CharismaticLady

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Israel is the natural branch, and yes, is able to be re-grafted into the tree.

That is true. So many believe that Israel has no hope. They will be re-grafted into the Church, not a different entity as those in the Church today, but the same one.

But you are refusing to believe it was the Gentiles that are grafted in who are Christians. And seeing as no new Gentiles will be saved during the GT, they were already Christians before the GT ever started! And as far as your previous post about God's kids, these Gentile Christians will not be suffering what the world is suffering; they will be martyred for their faith.
 
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marks

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And as far as your previous post about God's kids, these Gentile Christians will not be suffering what the world is suffering; they will be martyred for their faith.
What I'm saying is if you believe the church will participate in the goings on of the 70th week of Daniel, there is no reason to think they would all be dead before the final 3.5 years of greatest tribulation, and that being the case, there is every reason to think that these locusts from the pit with stings like a scorpion that torment for 5 months wishing you were dead, trying to die, but you can't, that this will happen to God's spirit children, the church.

The first woe. The third woe is Satan cast down to the earth, which brings the abomination of desolation, and the beginning of the great tribulation.

Much love!
 

Dcopymope

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Something worth noting here is that there is no verse in the Bible in which Mystery Babylon is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

That is another Big Clue that God saved her in the end.

Then there is this...

Revelation 19:8
"And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints"


If the Bride was 'Pure from the beginning', she wouldn't have needed to be clothed with Righteousness.

It's obvious from the verse above that the Bride was *unrighteous* but was *saved* via the Mercy and Grace of God.

Thus the Bride was formerly Mystery Babylon and was given the name New Jerusalem.

There is your Red Pill for the day.

:D

Yep, in fact, it doesn't say that any particular nation gets tossed in the fire, only Satan, and whoever isn't listed in the book of life. The nations themselves still exist in the new heaven and earth. And yes, verses like Rev 19:8 is the bigger clue. If the woman had anything to do with the "church", the "saints", John wouldn't be calling those saints "whores" to start with.

(Revelation 21:24-27) "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. {25} And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. {26} And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. {27} And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."
 

CharismaticLady

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Is that so?

Yes, that is so. The Jews have a partial blindness on the UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles come into the Church - then all Israel will be saved.

Once the Antichrist is revealed that is the point at which that fullness of the Gentiles is complete, then all those Gentiles that did not accept Christ will have a strong delusion placed upon them so they will blindly follow the Antichrist. Therefore, all the martyrs from every nation were already Christians and never had a strong delusion placed on them.
 

marks

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Do you deny willfully overlooking the obvious?
Right.

You'll need to be a little more on point and a little less obnoxious if you want me to discuss this with you.

I'm not here to receive insults or to give a personal defense of how it is that I'm not being intellectually dishonest.

Much love!
 

marks

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Yes, that is so. The Jews have a partial blindness on the UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles come into the Church - then all Israel will be saved.

Once the Antichrist is revealed that is the point at which that fullness of the Gentiles is complete, then all those Gentiles that did not accept Christ will have a strong delusion placed upon them so they will blindly follow the Antichrist. Therefore, all the martyrs from every nation were already Christians and never had a strong delusion placed on them.
Let's go to the Scriptures on this. Please post the verses that to you teach there will be no gentile believers during the 70th week.

Much love!
 

Stranger

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Very true, hard for some to see that. But here is Daniel broken down by the relevant chapters on wiki which lays it out in a pretty straightforward fashion...
Daniel 2
The second chapter of the Book of Daniel tells how Daniel interpreted a dream of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. The king saw a gigantic statue made of four metals, from its gold head to its feet of mingled iron and clay; as he watched, a stone "not cut by human hands" destroyed the statue and became a mountain filling the whole world. Daniel explained to the king that the statue represented four successive kingdoms beginning with Babylon, while the stone and mountain signified a kingdom established by God which would never be destroyed nor given to another people. The historicist interpretation of the dream identifies the four empires as the Babylonian (the head), Medo-Persian (arms and shoulders), Greek (thighs and legs), and Roman (the feet) empires. The period starts with the gold head personified by King Nebuchadnezzar, then the next one of the silver is Medo-Persia, with the brass is Greece, and with iron or Rome which deteriorate all the way to being poorly mixed with clay. This line lasts until the Kingdom of God replaces and destroys it.[43]

"Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." Daniel 2:31-35 (Authorized Version 1611)

As the Roman Empire evolved into the so-called Holy Roman Empire, the part that was never part of the Babylonian, Persian or Grecian empires, became Italy, Austria, Switzerland, France, the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Luxemburg, Belgium, Spain, and Portugal.[43]

Daniel 7
The seventh chapter of the Book of Daniel tells of Daniel's vision of four world-kingdoms replaced by the kingdom of God. Four beasts come out of the sea, an angelic guide interprets the beasts as kingdoms and kings, the last of whom will make war on the "holy ones" of God, but he will be destroyed and the "holy ones" will be given eternal dominion. The historicist views of Daniel concern prophecies about the forces of evil viewed to have occurred as the four kingdoms of the image of Daniel 2, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome.[44] Each kingdom had the symbol of an animal (beast), and the last beast of Daniel is considered to be the pagan Rome and the Papacy which goes till Christ comes again.

The territory ruled by the 10 horns (ten kings) that grow out of this last beast, are the same European kingdoms that rose up from the ruins of the Roman empire, the mixture of iron and clay from the image of Daniel 2. Historian Niccolò Machiavelli lists the ten successor kingdoms to the Roman Empire in Western Europe as the Heruli, Suevi, Burgundians, Huns, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks, and Anglo-Saxons. The prophecy says 3 were uprooted and history shows the Heruli were in 493; the Vandals in 534, and the Ostrogoths in 553.[45]

"In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things." Daniel 7:1-8 (Authorized Version 1611)

When Daniel looked at the horns, another little horn came up after three of the first horns had been plucked up. The Papacy arose at this time and was given status as a temporal (King/Bishop) by Charlemagne, and held political and spiritual power until the French Revolution.[44]

Daniel 8
The eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel tells of Daniel's vision of a two-horned ram destroyed by a one-horned goat followed by the history of the "little horn". The Historicist interpretations and most scholars read it as the transition from the Persian to the Greek era with the coming power after them.

"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great. And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.." Daniel 8:3-10 (Authorized Version 1611)

Historicist and other scholars applied Daniel's little horn as symbolizing the Papacy. This was also the leading view of the Reformers, that the Roman Catholic Church the “Empire of the Youngest Horn"[46] of Daniel 8...Historicist interpretations of the Book of Daniel - Wikipedia

You and I are not in agreement. So, don't try and create a post that makes others think we are.

Stranger
 

Enoch111

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Let's go to the Scriptures on this. Please post the verses that to you teach there will be no gentile believers during the 70th week.
No one can say that there will be no Gentile believers at that time. But relatively few will be saved. From what we see in Revelation 11 Moses and Elijah will be preaching to the whole world, although primarily to unsaved Jews (see Malachi). Since the whole world will witness the martyrdom of these prophets and rejoice wickedly in that, it follows that the whole world heard them preach and was tormented.

And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. (Rev 11:9,10)
 

CharismaticLady

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Let's go to the Scriptures on this. Please post the verses that to you teach there will be no gentile believers during the 70th week.

Much love!

Romans 11:25-26
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
Revelation 7:13-14
Revelation 12:13-17
 

Stranger

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Sorry I agreed with your post, I quess that's not allowed...

Your statement that we agree is deceptive. We don't agree. You say you agree then give large amounts of information from wiki that really had nothing to do with my post.

The 7 year Tribulation period is not a false doctrine as you claim. The Dispensational method of interpreting the Bible is a valid, and I believe the correct method to interpret the Bible. Darby and Scofield were used by God to develop the Dispensational doctrine, which had been believed in the past yet not formed into a systematic doctrine.

Just as the Trinity has always been in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. But was not established as a doctrine till the Church era.

So, in other words, we do not agree.

Stranger
 

Hobie

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Your statement that we agree is deceptive. We don't agree. You say you agree then give large amounts of information from wiki that really had nothing to do with my post.

The 7 year Tribulation period is not a false doctrine as you claim. The Dispensational method of interpreting the Bible is a valid, and I believe the correct method to interpret the Bible. Darby and Scofield were used by God to develop the Dispensational doctrine, which had been believed in the past yet not formed into a systematic doctrine.

Just as the Trinity has always been in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. But was not established as a doctrine till the Church era.

So, in other words, we do not agree.

Stranger
Ok, we disagree.
 
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