The False Idea of Replacement Theology

[Spiritual Israelite]

You misquoted me. There are no more natural branches since the Cross.

I didn't change anything you said. I quoted your post exactly as you said it, so how could I have misquoted you? The natural branches Paul was talking represented physical descendants of the nation of Israel. They were cut off because of unbelief (because of rejecting Christ). Do you agree or disagree with that?

There is no more Israel period.

That is as false as false can be. You don't think the Israel of God exists anymore? Try telling that to Paul.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Tell me when exactly what Paul said here stopped being true. Clearly, the Israel of God existed when Paul wrote this, so tell me when it stopped existing.

You think Israel is still out there growing as a wild olive tree somewhere.

No, I do not. That is a lie. I've never said such a thing. The wild olive tree represents the tree that the Gentiles were on before they were grafted onto the good or cultivated olive tree that they are grafted into with Israelite believers.

Do you think it helps your case to make up lies about me? It doesn't. It only reveals that you are a liar.

 

[Arthur81]

"But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God." (Gal 6:14-16 RSV)

A Commentary based upon comparing scripture with scripture:
"The combination of peace and mercy in such close conjunction in a blessing occurs nowhere in Judaism, but it is partially found in Psa 85:10 (Psa 84:11 in the LXX) and in Isa 54:10. The latter is especially appropriate, ‘neither shall my covenant of peace be removed, says Yahweh Who has mercy on you.’
‘And (namely) on the Israel of God.’ Throughout his letter he has demonstrated that the old unbelieving Israel is finished with. Their rites no longer apply, their submission to the Law is now futile, they are no longer the true sons of Abraham or heirs of the promise made to him (Gal 3:18; Gal 3:28-29). They are the sons of the slave woman who is after the flesh (Gal 4:23), they are children of Hagar who have been brought into bondage (Gal 4:24). They are children of the old Jerusalem which is in bondage (Gal 4:25). They are as such to be cast out (Gal 4:30).
But now there is a new Israel. They are, like Isaac, the children of promise (Gal 4:28). They are the children of the free-woman (Gal 4:31). They are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise (Gal 3:29). They are adopted as sons and heirs of God (Gal 4:5-7). They are reckoned as righteous by faith, just as their father Abraham was (Gal 3:6-7). They have received the promise of the Spirit through faith (Gal 3:14). They are children of the new Jerusalem which is in Heaven (Gal 4:26). They are born after the Spirit (Gal 4:29). They are the new people of God. And they consist of believing ex-Jews and believing ex-Gentiles (Gal 3:28). They are ‘the congregation (church) of God’ (Gal 1:13), the Israel of God.
Thus Paul extends his blessing to cover not only the faithful among the Galatians ‘those (of you) as shall walk by this rule’ but also the faithful worldwide, the Israel of God’. The close connection with the new creation in the previous verse confirms this interpretation. They are the new creation, the new Israel.
Some suggest ‘the Israel of God’ means only believing Jews. But the whole of Galatians has rid them of the idea that Jews are different from Gentiles, and the lack of difference is what he has been at pains to point out (Gal 3:28). Would he now so distinguish believing Jews as the Israel of God separately from the believing Gentiles, thus again splitting ‘the one new man’ (Eph 2:15)? Especially as this last passage is summarizing what has gone before. It is inconceivable. The ‘Israel of God’ includes either all or none."
From Peter Pett - Galatians 6 - Pett's Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

"And when they arrived, they gathered the church together and declared all that God had done with them, and how he had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles...So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoeni′cia and Samar′ia, reporting the conversion of the Gentiles, and they gave great joy to all the brethren. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. (Acts 14:27; 15:3-4.)

The context of the following must be viewed by the preceding statements of the Gentiles were being brought into the church by faith.

"Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, as it is written, ‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up, that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who has made these things known from of old.’" (Acts 15:14-18 RSV) *This is clearly an OT prophecy applied to the church!

The apostle Peter described the church thus -
"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were no people but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy but now you have received mercy." (1Pet 2:9-10 RSV) *Those labels or names were applied to OT Israel, now applied to the church! From Ex. 19:6; Deut 7:6; Isa 61:6

You can't go wrong sticking to the explicit statements of God's word in context, and ignoring men's fanciful additions!

 

[Freedm]

Its a bit hard to figure out just what people believe on the issue of who are Gods people today.
But New Testament teaching is irrefutable: ONLY those who have come to God through the Lord Jesus are saved and become the true people of God. Matthew 5:14
Ethnicity has nothing to do with Salvation and becoming a true Israelite of God. Ephesians 2:11-18

But God does have a secret, it will be mainly descendants of Jacob who will make up the majority of Gods people during the end times. For now we cannot know who are actual descendants according to Gods criteria, only He knows. Amos 9:9

It's simple really and there should be no argument about it, however there are many who choose to believe that the Jews have an inside track and will all be redeemed by the time Jesus Returns, That this theory has no Bible support and many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise, is ignored and prophesies like Zechariah 12:11-15 is assumed to mean all the Jewish people, instead of just a remnant, as Paul says. Romans 9:27

Can you explain please where you get the idea that "it will be mainly descendants of Jacob who will make up the majority of God's people".

 

[Davy]

Can you explain please where you get the idea that "it will be mainly descendants of Jacob who will make up the majority of God's people".

Right, God through His Old Testament prophets revealed early on that His Salvation Plan is for believing Gentiles also.

 

[Timtofly]

You interpret scripture using your supposed understanding of eastern culture. I interpret scripture with scripture. I think everyone here knows which approach is better.

The Bible is eastern culture.

 

[Timtofly]

No, I do not. That is a lie. I've never said such a thing. The wild olive tree represents the tree that the Gentiles were on before they were grafted onto the good or cultivated olive tree that they are grafted into with Israelite believers.

So a separate natural tree from Christ?

"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved."

You still don't get the part about being cut off. You think it only applies to one generation. You don't even get the part ethnic Israel was naturally born into the tree. Why did you even request this response?

Clearly, the Israel of God existed when Paul wrote this, so tell me when it stopped existing.

The Israel of God started when God gave the name to Jacob. It has not stopped existing. It just no longer produces natural branches. It will soon, when Israel is born in a day. Do you think Israel will just stop being a reality on earth at the Second Coming?

So only one Israel. Not a physical Israel and a spiritual Israel that you all keep defining with human understanding.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So a separate natural tree from Christ?

The natural tree doesn't represent Christ, it represents His kingdom. Have you ever actually read Romans 11? I don't get the sense that you have. Christ is the root of the olive tree, not the olive tree itself. Just like He is the chief cornerstone of the church, but not the church itself (Ephesians 2:19-22).

Romans 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Isaiah 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.

Romans 15:12 And again, Isaiah says, “The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; in him the Gentiles will hope.”

"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved."

You understand that the wild olive tree is a separate olive tree and is the one "which is wild by nature" and represents the Gentiles, right?

You still don't get the part about being cut off. You think it only applies to one generation.

Paul was clearly referring to the unbelieving Israelites of his day as having been cut off. They are the same ones that he said had been blinded and had stumbled but not beyond recovery. And he said he hoped to lead some of them to salvation. That is clearly indicated in Romans 11 if you would actually read it.

Later, Paul said that Gentile believers could be cut off as well if they didn't continue to have faith.

Romans 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

One of us is actually reading Romans 11 and referring to it as the basis of our understanding and one of us is not doing that at all. Can you tell which is which? I'm sure everyone else who might be reading this can.

You don't even get the part ethnic Israel was naturally born into the tree. Why did you even request this response?

I didn't say otherwise, but once Christ came then it was all about whether someone had faith or not. Those who didn't were cut off. Paul plainly stated that the ones who were cut off were cut off "because of unbelief".

The Israel of God started when God gave the name to Jacob. It has not stopped existing. It just no longer produces natural branches. It will soon, when Israel is born in a day. Do you think Israel will just stop being a reality on earth at the Second Coming?

So only one Israel. Not a physical Israel and a spiritual Israel that you all keep defining with human understanding.

No, it's your human understanding that is preventing you from understanding spiritual things such as Spiritual Israel.

 

[Timtofly]

The natural tree doesn't represent Christ, it represents His kingdom. Have you ever actually read Romans 11? I don't get the sense that you have. Christ is the root of the olive tree, not the olive tree itself. Just like He is the chief cornerstone of the church, but not the church itself (Ephesians 2:19-22).

You are still not getting the point. Do you think there has been another olive tree with natural branches, besides the one branches were cut from? Did the branches cut off really start another tree just to keep a tree going, since you claim ethnic Israel kept going, and the original tree was not Christ but their "kingdom".

My point is that not only were branches cut off, but the tree stopped having natural branches period. There was no more Israel or "kingdom" as you put it.

Now all the branches are wild, but somehow you think there is still a natural Israel out there still producing branches to be grafted into this natural tree whose root is Jesus.

My point has always been all the branches cut off remained cut off until grafted back in.

Not all of Israel is Israel. But there will not be an Israel, nor natural branches until blindness has been removed. The only Israel are the natural branches grafted back in. Because they are now Israel again.

How do you view those natural branches or do you call them wild? They cannot start out on the tree, to be cut off. They are no longer natural, because of blindness. But blindness in part, so not born natural and not born wild. They do need to be grafted in, or will die not part of the tree.

 

[Keraz]

Can you explain please where you get the idea that "it will be mainly descendants of Jacob who will make up the majority of God's people".

God's Promises to the Patriarchs.
Their descendants will inherit the holy Land.

The peoples descended from the ten Northern tribes, the ones who Jesus came to save, Matthew 15:25, who are still scattered around the world; people from every tribe, race, nation and language. The Christian peoples.
All of them who revolt and rebel, including the Jews, will not enter the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 35:8-10, Romans 9:24-26

 

[Davy]

God's Promises to the Patriarchs.
Their descendants will inherit the holy Land.

The peoples descended from the ten Northern tribes, the ones who Jesus came to save, Matthew 15:25, who are still scattered around the world; people from every tribe, race, nation and language. The Christian peoples.
All of them who revolt and rebel, including the Jews, will not enter the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 35:8-10, Romans 9:24-26

You obviously have not read Isaiah 54.

 

[Keraz]

Isaiah 54:1 Sing, barren woman, who never bore a child, Shout for joy, you who have never been in labour, for the deserted wife will have more children that she who has a husband.
This verse refers to the Israelites – the 10 Northern tribes, then Judah, both divorced and exiled from God for their sins, but now ‘a vast multitude’. Isaiah 50:1, Jeremiah 3:8-9, Malachi 2:10-11, Ezekiel 36:10-11.

Isaiah 54:2-3 Enlarge your space, spread out right and left, your descendants will dispossess nations and will inhabit cities now desolate.
The Israelites, now including every faithful Christian: will go to live in all of the holy Land, they will take over neighbouring areas and will live in their abandoned houses. Zechariah 10:8-10, Micah 7:11, Ezekiel 36:24-28, Amos 9:12, Zephaniah 3:19-20.]

Isaiah 54:4-6 Fear not, you will not be put to shame or disgrace. It is time to forget the shame of your younger days and the reproach of your casting off, for your husband is your Maker, His name is Y’hovah. The Holy One of Israel is your redeemer, He acknowledges you as his possession again, once cast off and heartbroken.
His people, the Christian Israelites of God, can look forward to their redemption and restoration to their heritage. Amos 9:13-15, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 14:1-2

Isaiah 54:7-8 I forsook you for a passing moment, but with tender affection, I shall bring you home again. In an upsurge of anger, I hid My face from you, but now, I shall give you never failing love, says the Lord; your Redeemer.

a passing moment – 1000s of years of Israel’s exile [ a 1000 years is as a day to God) Soon to migrate to their true homeland. Isaiah 35:1-10, Zephaniah 3:17, Micah 3:6-8.

Isaiah 54:9-10 This to Me, is like when I swore to never again flood the earth, so now I swear to you – to never again be angry or rebuke you. My love will never fail and My covenant of peace will never be shaken.
Wonderful promises of blessings to His people, those who love and serve Him. Micah 7:19, Hosea 14:4-7, Ezekiel 37:26-27

Isaiah 54:11-12 Storm battered city, distressed and desolate, now I shall rebuild you with the finest materials.
Jerusalem – and all Israel- rebuilt and regenerated after the destruction caused by the Lords Day of vengeance and wrath. Joel 1:19-20, Amos 9:11, Ezekiel 36:8-12

Isaiah 54:13-17 Your children will be instructed by the Lord, they will enjoy great prosperity. They will have nothing to fear. If anyone tries to attack you, they will die [Ezekiel 38 & 39 & Joel 2:20] No weapon will prevail against you and any accuser will be refuted. These benefits are enjoyed by the servants of the Lord, their victory comes from Me. Reference; REB, some verses abridged.

His faithful Christian people, living in peace and security, in all of the holy Land, will fulfil all the promises made to the Patriarchs. They will be ‘a Light to the nations ‘ and will send out 144,000 missionaries to spread the gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Isaiah 66:19, and Luke 10:1-19 – is the precursor for them.
Ref: logostelos.info

 

[Davy]

Isaiah 54:1 Sing, barren woman, who never bore a child, Shout for joy, you who have never been in labour, for the deserted wife will have more children that she who has a husband.
This verse refers to the Israelites – the 10 Northern tribes, then Judah, both divorced and exiled from God for their sins, but now ‘a vast multitude’. Isaiah 50:1, Jeremiah 3:8-9, Malachi 2:10-11, Ezekiel 36:10-11.

Isaiah 54:2-3 Enlarge your space, spread out right and left, your descendants will dispossess nations and will inhabit cities now desolate.
The Israelites, now including every faithful Christian: will go to live in all of the holy Land, they will take over neighbouring areas and will live in their abandoned houses. Zechariah 10:8-10, Micah 7:11, Ezekiel 36:24-28, Amos 9:12, Zephaniah 3:19-20.]

There's your problem, you are reading the idea of "nations" as being Israelites when it is pointing to Gentile nations.

Isa 54:2-3
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
KJV

Isa 54:3
3 For thou shalt pass on to the right hand, and to the left: and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and shall inhabit the desolate cities.
Douay-Rheims

Isa 54:3
3 For thou shalt spread abroad on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall possess the nations, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
ASV

Isa 54:3
3 For you will spread abroad to the right and to the left,
and your offspring will possess the nations
and will people the desolate cities.
ESV

Isa 54:3
3 For I will make wide your limits on the right hand and on the left; and your seed will take the nations for a heritage, and make the waste towns full of people.
BBE

Isa 54:3-4
3 for you will spread out to the right and to the left. And your descendants will be heir to the nations, and they will inhabit desolate towns.
The Lexham English Bible, Fourth Edition

Isa 54:3
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
Webster

 

[Reddsta]

There is NO such thing as 'Replacement Theology', period.

PROOF that God's Birthright Promises and Blessings first given through Abraham, have become part of Christ's Church via The Gospel of Jesus Christ:

First maybe we should work from a simple defined understanding of “Replacement Theology” even a basic understanding would help. It seemed to me that there was some very good godly input in this forum that was overshadowed by the inability of some to learn how to “discuss” the scripture and come to truth and agreement. The Body of Christ is not exemplified in that manner…therefore truth is distorted.

I understand that among those who hold as true this “Replacement Theology” there is some variance…however it seems that the primary tenet’s…though it seems to vary among its scholars is…this a is “basic working definition” as I understand it.

• ”that the church is the current instrument through which God is working in this age”
• “God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel “as the institution for the administration of divine blessing to the world.”

I broke them down into A & B for simplicity…”A” can be said to be correct according to Paul.

“To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.” (Eph 3:8-10 NASB)​

So…there is no problem with theory “A”…it does not have to me any more complicated than that. Perhaps defining what constitutes the “church” would help…this then…may flesh out tenet “B?”

The “church, body of Christ, temple of God, saints, family of God, sons of God etc” exist in the invisible kingdom of God in both heaven and on earth…Paul says in Romans 14:17

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, [temporal] but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.”[Spiritual]​

The Lord Himself said…

"The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." (Luke 17:20-21 NASB)​

It is a spiritual kingdom…not a temporal or earthly kingdom and the citizens of this “spiritual kingdom” are themselves “unique spiritual members” of the Body of Christ. Yahshua told Nicodemus,

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." ​

So unless one is “born again” by faith in Yahshua Christ as God manifest in the flesh…the kingdom of God remains invisible…and then He told Nicodemus…

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”​

Now He says…when one “can see” the kingdom of God…one must be born of water & Spirit to “enter” the kingdom that is invisible to anyone not “born again.”

So the citizenry of the “spiritual kingdom of God” as of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on that Pentecost after the Lords ascension…are of the spiritual type…Paul concurs with the Lord Yahshua…”flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” yet men and women are entering into His kingdom every day on earth I would think. We are merely defining the “church” the Body of Christ in this context as on the earth…today.

This is not about ethnicity or nationality…it is no longer about “Jew or Gentile” though there is a remnant of people that “enter into the kingdom of God…from every tribe, tongue, people and nation.” Read how Paul states that the constituency of the kingdom of God on earth appears…

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.” (Gal 3:26-29 NASB)​

Those “clothed with Christ”…”born again…born of the water and Spirit” are Abraham’s descendants and heirs to the throne of God…just as God promised Abraham…this just seems so patently obvious. Was Abraham Jewish? How about Isaac?

Again in Colossians 3…

“have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.” (Col 3:10-11 NASB)​

Moving from “Jew or Gentile” via the indwelling of the Holy Spirit…is the incorporating of one into Christ…this is a transformation into a wholly and entirely different ethnicity or “race” if you will…“one new man”…one who had not been present on the earth in humanity until Christ Yahshua came.

It is in Christ as Paul states…that one becomes a son of God…earthly fleshly ethnicity and nationality no longer apply as the identity of the Spirit born son of God who is now spiritually living in their own kingdom called the kingdom of God…that is here on earth today as it is in heaven.

Similarly…Paul leaves no doubt as to the spiritual citizenship of the sons of God…

“However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.” (Rom 8:9 NASB)​

If one does not have the Spirit of Christ…they are not in Christ…those not in Christ from that initial outpouring of His Holy Spirit on that Pentecost…were/are either Jew or gentile…they are not a son of God…they are not in the Body of Christ…they are not in the kingdom of God…and they are not heirs to the throne of God…they were/are in the flesh.

This will likely ruffle some feathers…

“Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.” (2Co 5:16-17 NASB)​

“Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh” That is because once in the house of God…in Christ…the physical flesh and all of its attributes…color, size, language, gender, slave, free, nationality, ethnicity and on and on…are no longer how one is spiritually identified, known or discerned…no…it is by their Spirit that they are known. It is via spiritual discernment that a son of God is known and knows those who are sons of God.​

​

“even though we have known Christ according to the flesh” In the flesh our Lord Yahshua Christ was Jewish…He was recognized as a Jewish man by the Jews and gentiles alike…clearly.​

​

“ yet now we know Him in this way no longer” Paul is acknowledging that though He is not with us in His flesh…we still know Him…obviously…how? By the Spirit! That’s because He is no longer in the flesh, He is no longer a Jew…because in the spiritual kingdom of god…there is no distinction between Greek and Jew.​

​

“Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.” This new creature is the Holy Spirit filled sons of God who dwell in their own spiritual kingdom with their own King & Lord…Yahshua Christ who is upon the throne of God the Father.​

To be continued...

 

[Reddsta]

Continuing on...
So, with the promises God made to Abraham having been fulfilled…”a great nation”…speaking specifically about natural ethnic Israel…

​

“And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.” (Gen 12:2-3 NASB)​

And yet being fulfilled in Christ…

“and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” (Gen 22:16-18 NASB)​

“Not withheld your only son”…who does that remind you of? And then…“I will greatly multiply your seed…in your seed, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed”

Abraham was a man of faith toward God, he also received the honor and blessing that through his "natural seed, Isaac and Jacob ultimately Israel, which would produce Mary who is of Abrahams seed Israel" who would be the one in whom God the Father would choose to "plant His seed, " a " spiritual seed" as only "the" Father can do.

This is not a natural seed, not a human seed, not Abraham's seed, Abraham's seed ultimately brings forth the "Jewish woman" Mary, the mother who comes from "natural Israel." She became the "Jewish human" carrier of the "divine seed" of our God and Father. This fulfilled the second part of God's promise to Abraham. "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed."

This is what is meant in Genesis 3 “And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.”(Gen 3:15 NASB)

She followed suit by bringing forth a "spiritual Son, Yahshua." He is from the seed of God His Father, God as a Spirit fathered Him." Yahshua’s connection to Abraham seed is, as a "womb" as in Mary's, not as the seed of Abraham. Women do not have a seed in and of themselves, they are the carrier of the seed which originates in man and in this case it was not a man, it was God our Father. It was not a man who conceived a child in the womb of Mary the woman and mother so, Christ the Son of God…the seed of God via the woman who will bruise the serpents head.

So…back to the OP “Replacement Theory”…as I have understood its most basic premise

• ”that the church is the current instrument through which God is working in this age”
• “God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel “as the institution for the administration of divine blessing to the world.”

“A” should stand on its own here…the scripture declares that very truth.

“B” by definition…in regards to that element of a “restored national Israel” that is to “administer divine blessing to the world” in the future…would apparently create a way to the Father other than Yahshua.

Christ Yahshua took the kingdom of His Father from the flesh…natural…national Israel to an eternal…spiritual nation on earth and in heaven…Israel was always a “type or shadow” of the true spiritual nation…known as the “kingdom of God in which Body of Christ lives.” God planned it this way before He even set the created heavens and earth into place.

The only thing coming out of any nation into eternity with Christ are His sons…the sons of God…that includes Israel of which there will be a remnant of those in Christ…for He is the only way to the Father…there is no other provision. The covenant with Abraham is fulfilled in the way Paul stated in Galatians 3…

The “Replacement Theory” if I understand it...is a mixture of lies and truth…like all doctrines of demons.

Redd...

 

[Freedm]

I agree with everything you said, except that I've never heard that your "B" is a part of what people call replacement theology.

• “God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel “as the institution for the administration of divine blessing to the world.”

That sounds more like it belongs in dispensational theology.

 

[Reddsta]

I agree with everything you said, except that I've never heard that your "B" is a part of what people call replacement theology.

• “God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel “as the institution for the administration of divine blessing to the world.”

That sounds more like it belongs in dispensational theology.

Greetings Freedm...nice to "meet" you.

You are right...yet I have found that it is not uncommon to encounter this dispensational thinking with those who claim to profess "Replacement Theology" much has been written about it...it may be more common than is realized...perhaps?

Redd...

 

[covenantee]

"Replacement theology" and "dispensational theology" are far more ideology than theology.

 

[Davy]

First maybe we should work from a simple defined understanding of “Replacement Theology” even a basic understanding would help. It seemed to me that there was some very good godly input in this forum that was overshadowed by the inability of some to learn how to “discuss” the scripture and come to truth and agreement. The Body of Christ is not exemplified in that manner…therefore truth is distorted.

The distorting of the Truth is by those who want to call God's promises and covenants to Israel NOT... having continued through The New Covenant Jesus Christ, with their using false terms like "Replacement Theology", which there is no such idea but in the minds mostly of Jews who think their sacred 'chosen' territory is being trampled upon by believing Gentiles..

I have shown direct Bible Scripture to that very effect of how God's promises and covenants to Israel follows The New Covenant Jesus Christ and those who believe on Him, and those like you want to call that Scripture evidence "distorted"??


Nothing you can say (even with your long posts you hope others read), can change what God prophesied about His Church under His Son Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:10-13
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV

Paul is saying in the above, that the believing Gentiles, who at one time were without Christ, and thus aliens (strangers) from the "commonwealth of Israel", and as strangers from God's covenants and promises, then had no hope and were without God while in the world.

But NOW, under Christ Jesus (per The New Covenant Church), these same GENTILES who were before "far off" (i.e., separated from God's covenants and promises), ARE NOW MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. And that means CHRIST'S CHURCH.

That ALSO means... any Jew that REJECTS Jesus Christ and The New Covenant, are now CUT OFF from God's covenants and promises. This because God's covenants and promises continues ONLY through The New Covenant, and those who believe on JESUS CHRIST! It's as simple as that.

 

[Reddsta]

The distorting of the Truth is by those who want to call God's promises and covenants to Israel NOT... having continued through The New Covenant Jesus Christ, with their using false terms like "Replacement Theology", which there is no such idea but in the minds mostly of Jews who think their sacred 'chosen' territory is being trampled upon by believing Gentiles..

I have shown direct Bible Scripture to that very effect of how God's promises and covenants to Israel follows The New Covenant Jesus Christ and those who believe on Him, and those like you want to call that Scripture evidence "distorted"??

Greetings Davy...

What I was referring to as "truth being distorted" was the fruit of the type of banter, bickering and what looks like "brother attacking brother" that was taking place on this forum. I read the whole thing before I got involved...what you quoted from me was a simple brotherly admonition to folks to remember how we are to treat one another.

In fact I was pointing out that these derisive attacks of another and their beliefs on these forums...similar to your approach to me in your response here...are not going to produce Christ and therefore are a dead work in need of repentance.

Davy...believe as you wish friend...that is the choice you have been given and how the Lord Yahshua expects you to live and act. Your behavior is to be attended with the "love one another as I have loved you" attitude.

This is how we love Him and each other and how the world will know who are His...it is by our love one to another.

Finally Davy...in light of the rather lengthy post I submitted concerning “Replacement Theology” my conclusion was this...The “Replacement Theory” is a mixture of lies and truth…like all doctrines of demons. The word "theory" seems to be a better fit for me.

Perhaps we agree...I am not sure...it is not clear to me and frankly...being in agreement with you on "this subject" Davy is just not of any real significance to me. In any case...how we treat one another is of far more value to the Lord Yahshua Christ than a proud display of knowledge served up on the end of a sharp unloving unfruitful rebuke.

Redd...

 

[rebuilder 454]

Just so you don't get the wrong idea, and to save you time reading this...

There is NO such thing as 'Replacement Theology', period.

Replacement Theology is a theory which some try to use against Christ's Church.

They came up with that theory because they are against any idea that God's Promises and Blessings migrated to Christ's Church.


PROOF that God's Birthright Promises and Blessings first given through Abraham, have become part of Christ's Church via The Gospel of Jesus Christ:

1. Back in the days of Solomon, God split the old nation of Israel into 2 separate kingdoms, because of Solomon allowing his many pagan wives to bring their idol worship in among Israel. 3 tribes in the lands of Judea-Jerusalem made up the "kingdom of Judah", and 10 tribes in the northern lands made up the "kingdom of Israel". (See 1 Kings 11 forward)

God gave Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim to be king over the northern ten tribes of Israel. The tribe of Ephraim was the larger among the ten tribes, and Solomon had previously set Jeroboam up as governor over the 10 northern tribes. This was strange, because God had before ordained the tribe of Judah to be the king tribe, and from Judah is where the line of kings down to king David and Solomon were descended from. Only king line from the tribe of Judah, and house of David, remained over the "kingdom of Judah" at Judea-Jerusalem. But Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim and kings from the ten tribes made up the line of kings over the "kingdom of Israel" made up of the ten northern tribes. And both kingdoms had war against each other.

Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim setup two gold calf idols in false worship among the northern ten tribes, so as to try and prevent the 10 tribes from going to down to Jerusalem to worship, and join sides with the "kingdom of Judah" (some of them did join with Judah). God eventually got fed up with that false worship, as the ten tribes allowed it to go on through many later kings over the northern 10 tribes. So God literally REMOVED all the ten northern tribes out of the land, captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes by the kings of Assyria (see 2 Kings 17). And in their place, the king of Assyria placed pagan foreigners from five provinces of Babylon, each of the five bringing their false gods and idols with them. These became the Samaritan Gentiles.

2. The ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel", also called the "house of Israel", never returned to the holy lands as a people. The Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said in his day the ten tribes were still beyond Euphrates, and were a great number, too many to be counted. Only the 3 tribed "house of Judah" (JEWS) remained in the holy land at Judea-Jerusalem in the south, as it still is to this day. The 10 tribes were not known as 'Jews' according to Josephus, as that title of 'Jew' he said was used by those who returned from Judah's later 70 years Babylon captivity (time of Daniel the prophet).

The 10 northern tribes of Israel, the majority of the children of Israel, were scattered among the Gentiles as God had promised He would do if they rebelled in following false worship (Deut.4 & 28). The 10 tribes then LOST their heritage as part of Israel. They became as Gentiles, living among the Gentiles, and forgetting knowledge of God's feast days, new moons, sabbaths, etc. The Jews of the "house of Judah" did not lose their heritage, but to this day have kept their heritage as part of old Israel, with God's feast days, new moons, sabbaths, etc. And God said this is what would happen via His prophet Hosea.

And yet God did not forget the 10 lost tribes, even though the world and the Jews lost them.

God brought the ten tribes through the wilderness, their migrating mainly to the west among the Gentiles. And there they would form the nations of Asia Minor and Europe, along with Gentiles. They took their false Baal worship with them there, as the many pagan worship styles in those new lands are revealed throughout the history of the western nations prior... to their accepting The Gospel of Jesus Christ on national scales.

When Lord Jesus and The Gospel was rejected by the Jews in Jerusalem, and Lord Jesus crucified, The Gospel then went to the Gentiles. And especially in Asia Minor and Europe The Gospel took root, eventually creating the western Christian nations of history.

Apostle Paul had thought to take The Gospel into the Far East Asian lands, but The Holy Spirit prevented him (Acts 16:6). That further confirms about where the majority of the ten tribes of Israel were scattered to, as Jesus said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel" (ten tribes).

What is little known though, is the majority of the 10 scattered tribes of Israel were among those western nations and helped form them in The Gospel. And there were scattered Jews also among them that began to convert to Jesus Christ and The Gospel. This is why Apostle James addresses all 12 tribes scattered abroad in James 1:1. Many of the Jews of the "house of Judah" were also scattered among the Gentiles from their own captivity to Babylon. Only a small remnant of Jews of the 3-tribe "house of Judah" actually returned to Jerusalem to rebuild Jerusalem and the 2nd temple (see Ezra 1 & 2). The majority of the "house of Judah" chose to stay in Babylon, because God had taken care of them there, and they had increased. But then they were later scattered like the ten tribes were.

So what the historical western Christian nations is about is God sending The Gospel to His chosen seed of Israel scattered there among the Gentiles. And then BOTH those of believing Israelites AND believing Gentiles, have become Christ's Church under Him and The New Covenant, which INCLUDE God's Birthright Promises and Blessings first given through Abraham.

All that is revealed from Bible Scripture (epsecially in the Books of Hosea and Isaiah), and is not a 'theory' from man. Especially in the Book of Isaiah, God promised His Salvation in Christ to the Gentiles also, and that they would be joined in His Promises. Apostle Paul actually repeated that too, in Ephesians 2 when he said the believing Gentile had become 'nigh' to the covenants and promises from God to Israel, and Paul even used the idea of the "commonwealth of Israel" under New Testament doctrine, to point to the believing Gentiles being joined in those promises to Israel. Moreover, in Galatians 3 and Romans 4, Apostle Paul even goes back to Abraham, and the promises God first gave Abraham, especially the Promise by Faith, which Paul showed even believing Gentiles have inherited WITH faithful Abraham.

So again, just WHO would be against all that, which is confirmed by God's written Word? and would come up with false monikers like "Replacement Theology"?

Deceived Jews, both orthodox unbelieving Jews especially, and those of them that have crept into Messianic congregations. That is most likely who would come up with ideas against God's Word about The Gospel going to the Gentiles also, with BOTH scattered Israelites of the 'seed' that believe on Jesus Christ, along with believing Gentiles, having become Christ's Church.

What those Bible Scriptures prove then, is that Christ's Church in no way means just a Gentile Church. There is no such thing. Christ's Church is ONLY about BOTH scattered Israelites and Gentiles, TOGETHER as ONE BODY in Christ Jesus. And since the 10 northern tribes of Israel made up the MAJORITY of the seed of the children of Israel, that means a MAJORITY of the "house of Israel" today are represented by Christ's Church.

Lord Jesus did say that He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel". He was pointing to this very thing, that once He was rejected at Jerusalem, The Gospel would then go to the scattered 10 tribes of the "house of Israel". And if you understand that the tribe of Ephraim was the head tribe over the 10 tribes of Israel, that is also why the Genesis 48 prophecy that Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations" would be fulfilled in those western Christian nations by The Gospel of Jesus Christ!

Op; "There is NO such thing as 'Replacement Theology', period.

Replacement Theology is a theory which some try to use against Christ's Church.

They came up with that theory because they are against any idea that God's Promises and Blessings migrated to Christ's Church."

tells us there is no such thing SMH

Then explains how he is replacement theology SMH