The False Idea of Replacement Theology

[Timtofly]

LOL. You still don't get it. Have you ever actually read Romans 11? Yes or no? The branches were not cut off by way of death, they were cut off because of unbelief. They are the same individual Israelites that Paul said were blinded and had stumbled, but not beyond recovery. Paul said he hoped to lead some of them to salvation. Do you understand what I'm saying?


Where does Paul ever say anything about death cutting them off permanently? He never says anything like that in Romans 11.


Yes, they could. It says they were broken or cut off because of unbelief. How can unbelief cause someone to lose their natural ethnicity? That is ridiculous. They were cut off in a spiritual sense, not a natural, physical sense. They were not cut off as natural descendants of Israel, they were cut off from the kingdom of God and Spiritual Israel.


No, I'm not doing that at all. You have the worst reading comprehension skills of anyone I've ever seen. I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time with you since you misunderstand and misrepresent everything I say.

How can you call yourself Spiritual Israelite, if your point only applied to one generation in the first century? Do you understand your own point and Romans 11?

How can disobedience to God result in death and eternal separation from God? That is what being cut off means. Not that they lost their religion.

Their ethnicity was their covenant with God. That is why they were called Israel. They were physically and spiritually in a covenant with God. They had to offer physical sacrifices as a whole national economy centered around the tabernacle. The Law was physical just as much as it was spiritual. Even many returned several times a year to keep the feast days in Jerusalem, after being scattered around the empire.

You are the one that has concocted two Israels, one physical, and one spiritual. Do you think there is still a chance for those first century branches cut off to be grafted back in?

 

[Davy]

There were 3 southern tribes, and one neutral landless tribe (Levi), totally 4 non-northern tribes.

Benjamin, Judah, and Simeon (which was contained inside the boundary of Judah).
The Levites had no tribal land, they were set aside for temple and synagogue service.

There are no 10 lost tribes.
Myth like Bigfoot and the Bermuda Triangle.

Of course much of what you are saying is un-Biblical, and a false fabrication, even so false that it reveals you have a false agenda, and is NOT to be trusted.


Per 1 Kings 11, God gave TEN TRIBES to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim to rule over.

1 Kings 11:29-35
29 And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:
30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
32 (But he shall have one tribe for My servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel
33 Because that they have forsaken Me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in My ways, to do that which is right in Mine eyes, and to keep My statutes and My judgments, as did David his father.
34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David My servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept My commandments and my statutes:
35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.
KJV

When God gave TEN TRIBES to Jeroboam to reign over as KING OF ISRAEL, per 1 Kings 11 and 12, ONLY the tribes of Judah and Benjamin remained as the SOUTHERN KINGDOM OF JUDAH.

The Levites at that time were still in BOTH kingdoms, until... Jeroboam setup 2 gold calf idols in the northern lands among the ten northern tribes...

2 Chron 11:13-17
13 And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.
14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD:
15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.
16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.
KJV

The Levites among the ten northern tribes were not allowed to do their priestly duties among the ten northern tribes when Jeroboam setup those 2 calf idols in the north. So the Levites LEFT THE TEN TRIBES, and went south to join with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. And a small remnant of the ten northern tribes that refused the calf idols also... went south and joined with Judah, AS WRITTEN.

That meant...

1. the "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah" in the southern lands = tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and a remnant of the ten northern tribes, and the strangers living in those lands. These began to call themselves JEWS... which is derived from the sole tribe of Judah.

2. the "house of Israel", or "kingdom of Israel" in the northern lands = tribes of Ephraim, Manasseh, Gad, Dan, Zebulun, Napthali, Asher, Simeon, Reuben, Issachar. These have NEVER RETURNED to the holy lands, but were SCATTERED AMONG THE GENTILES as God promised He would do to Israel if they rebelled against Him per Deut.4 & 28.


So I don't know what to think of someone who would come here and tell obvious lies against God's written Word, for that kind of thing is of 'another spirit', and not from God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can you call yourself Spiritual Israelite, if your point only applied to one generation in the first century?

LOL! Do you ever understand anything you read? That is not my point at all. I'm saying Spiritual Israel includes those who had faith back then, not that they are the only ones who are part of Spiritual Israel. All who have faith are part of Spiritual Israel. Paul said it is the children of God and children of the promise who make up Spiritual Israel. Are you a child of God and of the promise? If so, then you too are part of Spiritual Israel.

Do you understand your own point and Romans 11?

Of course I do. Do you ever understand anything anyone says? It sure doesn't seem like it.

How can disobedience to God result in death and eternal separation from God? That is what being cut off means. Not that they lost their religion.

LOL. You are clearly not even looking at Romans 11. Paul talked about the Israelites of his day being cut off because of unbelief and being blinded. He said they had stumbled, but not beyond recovery. He said in Romans 11:14 that he wanted to help save some of them. If being cut off results in eternal separation from God then why did Paul say he hoped to lead some of them to salvation? Why don't you try actually reading the text before commenting on it?

 

[Timtofly]

Paul talked about the Israelites of his day being cut off because of unbelief and being blinded.

Then you say something else, and that it applies to all time.

I pointed out Israel was cut off, many thousands of branches in 720 BC. Then you claim that only refers to Paul's generation, but spiritual Israel always existed.

I claimed that as well, and it was through their ethnicity until they were cut off. The point they were cut off removed them from their ethnicity as well, because their spiritual Israel is the same thing as their ethnic Israel because their whole economy and salvation was wrapped up in the Law.

After the Cross there was no more Israel because now all are in Christ and no longer bound by a Law that defined their ethnicity. They were ambassadors for God on earth as a called out nation. Now the church includes all nations on an individual level as ambassadors for God. You call that a spiritual nation, but it cannot be Israel nor is there any governmental structure nor economy one has to live by. We are in Christ the only head of state.

 

[DavidTaylor]

Of course much of what you are saying is un-Biblical, and a false fabrication, even so false that it reveals you have a false agenda, and is NOT to be trusted.​

So I don't know what to think of someone who would come here and tell obvious lies against God's written Word, for that kind of thing is of 'another spirit', and not from God.​

Thank you for the kind words, nice fruit you are bearing there! You completely nailed Colossians 3:12 with that reply!

btw, Peter found the lost tribes of Israel…and he gave them excellent advice!

Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and they said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.”

No lost tribes according to Peter, all of the house of Israel is found in Christ the good shepherd of all the lost sheep.

John 6:37 “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

 

[PinSeeker]

I pointed out Israel was cut off, many thousands of branches in 720 BC.

Are you really talking about when the Israelites were taken away into exile in Babylon? And postulating that's when Israel was cut off? My goodness... Okay, you know they returned just a few years later, 70, to be exact... But yet Paul, about eight centuries later, talks about them still being cut off... and the still-existing possibility of being cut off, too... right? And that's cut off from Christ, the true vine...

Then you claim that only refers to Paul's generation...

Don't think that was her claim, Timtofly, but merely what you (somehow) misperceive it to be. All she said was, "even in his day," which clearly implies that it refers to more than just his day.

The point they were cut off removed them from their ethnicity as well, because their spiritual Israel is the same thing as their ethnic Israel because their whole economy and salvation was wrapped up in the Law.

After the Cross there was no more Israel...

Then why does Paul talk about Israel as a present (then, and now by extension) reality, Timtofly? Wow.

because now all are in Christ and no longer bound by a Law that defined their ethnicity.

The Law "defined their ethnicity?" Ugh... The Law, Timtofly, was given to God's commonwealth of Israel ~ which was not then an earthly nation-state (nor it it now), and also even at that time included (as well as now includes) folks who were (are) not of God's Israel, even though among the Israelites and even ethnically the same.

Now the church includes all nations on an individual level as ambassadors for God. You call that a spiritual nation...

Well, those who have been called by God, who have been born again of the Holy Spirit, so, by definition a spiritual nation.

...but it cannot be Israel nor is there any governmental structure nor economy one has to live by. We are in Christ the only head of state.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Replacement theology is real. it is a false theology that states God gave the promises he gave to Israel (literally Abraham Isaac Jacob and all of their descendants) to the church

Gen 15:
12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now as for you, you shall [d]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces.
18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17:
4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Please note. God did not change and give this to the church. if he did. The church would be in Canaan right now and enjoying the benefits God promises israel.

 

[Keraz]

God did not change and give this to the church. if he did. The church would be in Canaan right now and enjoying the benefits God promises israel.

All of Gods Promises are to His faithful people, who are now; every true Christian, from every tribe, race nation and language. 1 Peter 2:10, Revelation 5:9-10
There is coming soon, are world changing disaster, which will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East region.
WE will go to live in all of the Promised Land; Psalms 107 and John sees us there. Revelation 7:9
WE will be there when Gog attacks us with huge army. The Lord will destroy them. Ezekiel 38 to 39
WE will be there when the leader of the world government makes a 7 year treaty of peace with us. Daniel 9:27

All of the Prophesies as described from Revelation 6:12 to Rev 19:10 will take place, then comes the glorious Return of King Jesus.
[Allegories will be easily seen for what they mean]

Anyone who believes in a Jewish redemption, simply has failed to read or understand how they will be punished and only a remnant will survive. Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27- +

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All of Gods Promises are to His faithful people, who are now; every true Christian, from every tribe, race nation and language. 1 Peter 2:10, Revelation 5:9-10
There is coming soon, are world changing disaster, which will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East region.
WE will go to live in all of the Promised Land; Psalms 107 and John sees us there. Revelation 7:9
WE will be there when Gog attacks us with huge army. The Lord will destroy them. Ezekiel 38 to 39
WE will be there when the leader of the world government makes a 7 year treaty of peace with us. Daniel 9:27

All of the Prophesies as described from Revelation 6:12 to Rev 19:10 will take place, then comes the glorious Return of King Jesus.
[Allegories will be easily seen for what they mean]

Anyone who believes in a Jewish redemption, simply has failed to read or understand how they will be punished and only a remnant will survive. Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27- +

God did not promise to all of the believing gentiles in the OT. Only to one nation.

so to say it is given to all saved people is just plain false

 

[PinSeeker]

Replacement theology is real. it is a false theology that states God gave the promises he gave to Israel (literally Abraham Isaac Jacob and all of their descendants) to the church

There is no "replacement." Even we Gentiles, believers of every tongue, tribe, and nation, are the true descendants of Abraham, Isaac (the child of the promise), and Jacob. The perceived replacement is itself a false dichotomy. As the writer of Hebrews says:

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." (Hebrews 1:1-2)​

God has one people, not two.

Gen 15:
12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now as for you, you shall [d]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces.
18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17:
4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Please note. God did not change and give this to the church. if he did. The church would be in Canaan right now and enjoying the benefits God promises israel.

"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)​

​

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..." (Romans 11:25-26)​

​

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion... He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us), who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time... you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ... you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy." (1 Peter 1:3-5; 1 Peter 2:5,9-10).​

There is no replacement. Paul, Peter, the author of Hebrews, the whole counsel of God says we are all on in Christ Jesus.

To God alone be the glory! (sola del Gloria)

Grace and peace!

 

[Timtofly]

Are you really talking about when the Israelites were taken away into exile in Babylon? And postulating that's when Israel was cut off? My goodness... Okay, you know they returned just a few years later, 70, to be exact... But yet Paul, about eight centuries later, talks about them still being cut off... and the still-existing possibility of being cut off, too... right? And that's cut off from Christ, the true vine...

No they did not. You are thinking of the Babylonian captivity over a hundred years later. Between 720 and 587, there was still the southern kingdom and a few more kings in Israel. No, Israel was scattered way before even the image of gold per Daniel 2 was even a reality.

You are wrong in thinking that there was no spiritual component to the Israel ethnicity. You see two Israels as well: physical and spiritual. If you claim there was an Israel recognized for those 800 years, it certainly would not be physical and about ethnicity. It would be about a spiritual relationship for individuals scattered across the earth. That would be removing the temple built or even Solomon's temple as the central point of the Law of Moses. That debate was already ongoing since Solomon died and the kingdom was split into two halves. But both kingdoms forsook God and worshipped idols. Even though there was revival of about every other king of Judah, it was not enough. They missed 70 Sabbaths. That is why they had 70 years of captivity.

Yes, my point was that even with God's longsuffering keeping ethnic Israel in place until 720BC, there was still on the part of Israel, wickedness and rebellion. Israel was never brought back to this day. At least not until 1948 when they have been returning, whether you accept that or not.

My point is that not very many were ever grafted back in, and being cut off did mean death and eternal separation from God. I have never made it about being corporate. Yet your implication puts it on a corporate level. You say even scattered around the earth, they are still corporate Israel. Which makes no sense, but ok?

I would not call that Israel at all. They may be ethnic offspring of Jacob, but certainly no longer ethnic Israel, no matter how much they want to be. They cannot be ethnic Israel until declared so by God.

"that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."

Is Israel all saved before, during, or after the fulness of the Gentiles?

Is Israel those of Jacob or the Gentiles?

Will the Deliverer save Jacob by turning away ungodliness? According to Paul that had not happened yet. Certainly it did not happen in 70AD. Paul was quoting from the OT. Paul did not say it was fulfilled. Paul was saying it was on hold until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. Paul did not say the fulness of the Gentiles was the saving of Israel. Israel would remain blind until the Second Coming. Israel would not be grafted in as individual branches until the Second Coming. Israel has not been Israel for a very long time. Hence not all of Israel are Israel.

 

[Timtofly]

"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)

This only applies to those grafted into the tree. Not the natural branches. You are not a natural branch. No one is today. Not even Jacob are natural branches since the Cross. We are not in Israel. We are in Christ. Ethnic Israel was at one time in Christ as natural branches, until a branch was cut off.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then you say something else, and that it applies to all time.

Don't put words in my mouth. The ones Paul talked about in particular were his fellow Israelites that were alive in his day. I didn't then say something else besides that. You are just not understanding what I'm saying because you have terrible reading comprehension skills.

I pointed out Israel was cut off, many thousands of branches in 720 BC.

That is not what Paul was referring to. He said that the ones who were cut off were the same ones he said were blinded, had stumbled, but not beyond recovery, and he hoped to lead some of them to salvation. Just read Romans 11:11-14 and you can see that.

Then you claim that only refers to Paul's generation, but spiritual Israel always existed.

I didn't say that Spiritual Israel only refers to Paul's generation. I'm saying that the ones who he said had been cut off and were blinded were his fellow Israelites of his generation. Just read Romans 11 and you can see that. Are you trying to figure this all out without even actually reading what Paul wrote or something?

I claimed that as well, and it was through their ethnicity until they were cut off.

Who exactly do you believe Paul was saying were cut off and when do you believe they were cut off? Do you believe the ones who were cut off are the same ones that Paul said were blinded and had stumbled, but not beyond recovery?

The point they were cut off removed them from their ethnicity as well, because their spiritual Israel is the same thing as their ethnic Israel because their whole economy and salvation was wrapped up in the Law.

This is as nonsensical as it gets. They were not cut off from their ethnicity. That's ludicrous. You don't get cut off from your ethnicity because of unbelief.

After the Cross there was no more Israel because now all are in Christ and no longer bound by a Law that defined their ethnicity.

You need to start actually reading scripture instead of making things up in your imagination.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

You say there was no more Israel after the cross. Yet, after the cross, Paul said he was an Israelite in the sense of being physically descended from Abraham and physically being "of the tribe of Benjamin". He was not speaking of spiritual Israel there. So, you are blatantly contradicting Paul by saying there was no more Israel after the cross.

They were ambassadors for God on earth as a called out nation. Now the church includes all nations on an individual level as ambassadors for God. You call that a spiritual nation, but it cannot be Israel nor is there any governmental structure nor economy one has to live by. We are in Christ the only head of state.

Spiritual Israel is the called out nation. It's the "holy nation" that Peter references in 1 Peter 2:9. Surely, he was not referring to the unholy physical nation of Israel there.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is no "replacement." Even we Gentiles, believers of every tongue, tribe, and nation, are the true descendants of Abraham, Isaac (the child of the promise), and Jacob. The perceived replacement is itself a false dichotomy. As the writer of Hebrews says:

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." (Hebrews 1:1-2)​

God has one people, not two.

"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)​

​

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..." (Romans 11:25-26)​

​

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion... He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us), who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time... you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ... you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy." (1 Peter 1:3-5; 1 Peter 2:5,9-10).​

There is no replacement. Paul, Peter, the author of Hebrews, the whole counsel of God says we are all on in Christ Jesus.

To God alone be the glory! (sola del Gloria)

Grace and peace!

Exactly. Well said. People foolishly accuse those of us who see it the way you described here as promoting replacement theology even though we don't believe anyone has been replaced. It was God's plan from the beginning to include Gentile believers as "fellowheirs" of His promises (Ephesians 3:1-6).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This only applies to those grafted into the tree.

Yes, exactly. Do you not think you are grafted into the tree?

Not the natural branches. You are not a natural branch. No one is today. Not even Jacob are natural branches since the Cross. We are not in Israel. We are in Christ. Ethnic Israel was at one time in Christ as natural branches, until a branch was cut off.

Where does it say a branch (singular) was cut off? It doesn't. It says branches (plural) were cut off. Stop changing scripture.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God did not promise to all of the believing gentiles in the OT. Only to one nation.

so to say it is given to all saved people is just plain false

Have you never read this:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That believing Gentiles would be "fellowheirs" of God's promises with believing Jews was a mystery in Old Testament times, but was revealed in New Testament times. Come join us in the New Testament era and learn about what Paul taught.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you really talking about when the Israelites were taken away into exile in Babylon? And postulating that's when Israel was cut off? My goodness...

Yep, that's what he's talking about alright. I'm trying to get him to actually read Romans 11 so that he can actually see what it's about, but it appears he'd rather just make things up without reading it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Is this the Jewish section?
Can you point me back to the Christian section?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Have you never read this:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That believing Gentiles would be "fellowheirs" of God's promises with believing Jews was a mystery in Old Testament times, but was revealed in New Testament times. Come join us in the New Testament era and learn about what Paul taught.

Yes I do

But that is not the promise given to israel. the land..

Israel was promised land, But they could also be saved, many of them were, Many of them rejected.

they get a twofold gift. Even abraham desired the greater gift. But that does nto negate the first gift God gave him, here on earth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yep, that's what he's talking about alright. I'm trying to get him to actually read Romans 11 so that he can actually see what it's about, but it appears he'd rather just make things up without reading it.

Nope this is not what he (me) is talking about!!

Matt 23: 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

this is when they were cut off..

you both show you do not understand what I believe so how can you know I am wrong?