The False vs True Gift Of Tongues

[amigo de christo]

The hour of upmost darkness and great deception has risen .
And to convince the folks that it cometh of GOD it will use the name of JESUS CHRIST .
Marvel not that this can be done . For even in the days of the apostels
there were voices that preached another jesus , another gospel and they did it using HIS NAME
and under the guise they were of the church . Beware the voice of the god who has come in its own name
and it is merging all to find common ground with all .
It uses the word love but as a tool to decieve .
It uses many words but does so as a tool to decieve .
IN THE BIBLE is left us GOOD INSTRUCTION . LEARN IT and take heed unto .
Embrace and love the truth which was left for us to learn in the scriptures
and put together by the first men who did so , so as we could have that instruction
throughout the ages Till THE LORD DO COME .
Learn it well and test all men , any voice , anything against that doctrine . The days grow short
and the hour is very late and in an instant shall the judgement and wrath of GOD and of the Lamb
fall upon this wicked generation . Do not be caught on the wrong ark .
Do not enter into the all inclusive social ark , for though it is huge and appears well built
and though many do enter into it , IT WILL NOT SURVIVE the WRATH OF GOD AND OF THE LAMB .
There is but one way , JESUS CHRIST and we had better learn HIM well . learn that bible my dear friends

 

[amigo de christo]

There is a generation which sees itself as RIGHT in its own eyes .
There is a generation which has thrown out a buoy into the ocean
and it hollers unto the drowning victims come to and grab a hold of this buoy and ye shall not sink .
And there are the lambs who holler out unto the seas
and say Grab not that bouy for it is filled with holes and cannot keep one afloat .
And they throw out the true bouy that can float and can weather even the greatest of storms .
And the voice of the pied piper says to its victims , THERE is no need to grab a hold of that other buoy
that is exclusive
come and grab a hold of this other buoy which i offer for its very broad and it can hold many .
And as the lambs warn them DO NOT grab hold of the buoy that sinks ,
it can be heard by the many , these are haters that do not love
But i tell us all its the inclusive bouy and its pied piper that has no love .
Imagine if a child was drowning and you saw TWO bouys .
One had holes on the other side and could not keep that child afloat
and the other one was perfect and could keep the child afloat .
WHICH ONE YOU GONNA CONVINCE THE CHILD to grab ahold of , the one that sinks or the one that floats .
SO PREACH JESUS CHRIST and the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM , cause all else SINKS .

 

[Karl Peters]

Sitting under JESUS CHRIST is of upmost dire and total importance .
but again many who are being led of the flesh , are sitting under another jesus they are calling christ .
GET in the holy book inspired by GOD . For many , and i do mean many , are being led of another
who has come in its own name but its using the name of GOD and of CHRIST to decieve the flocks within .

If you ask for Jesus Christ do you get Jesus Christ???

Did you, even you, read the Bible?

Luke 11:11 “Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?

An early symbol for Jesus Christ was a fish, and they had their reasons, because what does the above verse mean?

Luke 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

So you told you that if you asked for Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God and God (See Jn 1:1), and only God is good, that you are going to get something evil??

That is not believing in Jesus Christ, that is doubting in Jesus Christ, and thus God!!!

That happens because you don't actually seek Him by faith - meaning that He is indeed there with you to be found near you, because He sent His Holy Spirit to you!!

But if you doubt that you can find Him you seek Him then how are you going to hear from Him?

 

[amigo de christo]

If you ask for Jesus Christ do you get Jesus Christ???

Did you, even you, read the Bible?

Luke 11:11 “Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?

An early symbol for Jesus Christ was a fish, and they had their reasons, because what does the above verse mean?

Luke 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

So you told you that if you asked for Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God and God (See Jn 1:1), and only God is good, that you are going to get something evil??

That is not believing in Jesus Christ, that is doubting in Jesus Christ, and thus God!!!

That happens because you don't actually seek Him by faith - meaning that He is indeed there with you to be found near you, because He sent His Holy Spirit to you!!

But if you doubt that you can find Him you seek Him then how are you going to hear from Him?

many ask for a jesus christ that serves their own hearts desires .
Believing it to be JESUS THE CHRIST when in fact
its doctrines are contrary to THE JESUS CHRIST and HIS DOCTRINE .
Let that be a lesson for all . ITS examination TIME .
IS the JESUS CHRIST we know , love and embrace
THE SAME JESUS CHRIST made mention of in the bible ,
OR be it another jesus . For that answer i suggest SOME BIBLE READING and FAST TOO .
cause many many and many are following another jesus and quite frankly IT WONT save them .

 

[The Learner]

OK - how do you test them???



Some of the things said seem to be wise, but are they?

Look - we are supposed to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and that needs to mean we walk and talk with Him!! So we speaks to Him and He speaks to us! But do we do that?????

In the Scriptures we find that we are to take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ? But what does that mean??

Do we believe we can just talk with Him, and listen to what He says to us??

Religious people!!!

If you really know Jesus Christ you hear from Him via His Holy Spirit. So if you want to know what is being said in tongues, you just ask Him and listen!! Is that 'testing' the 'unknown languages'???

Maybe it is just talking with the Lord about what is going on??

YEAH - tongues was designed to get the "believer" to just talk with the Lord about what is going on!! But the 'Religious people' - those people going after evil spirits that make is about the things of God instead of God (religion)- start saying and getting concerned over so many things!!! They are quote "Believers" but they don't just talk to their Lord who is always with them to talk to them!!

So it comes across "You have to test the spirits!!" - when it should just come across "well - I just talk to the Lord about it."

So for me - when the Holy Spirit hits me with that fire inside that causes me to speak in "tongues", I just ask, "What's up Lord?"

Is that "testing the spirits"? Perhaps that is just walking and talking with the Lord? Is there not something written about seek and you shall find?? Who about something about when you ask for something good you are not going to get something bad? Anything in your Bible on that??

And if perchance I happen to hear someone else at church speaking in "tongues" can I not just do the same things and ask my Lord Jesus Christ something like: "Do I need to know anything about that Sir?" and then listen to what He tells me?

However - If I really think that there is something wrong and it is from the devil instead of the Holy Spirit (and that is not mentioned in the Bible, but just in case) I can test the spirits - but does the person saying to test the spirits even know how the Scriptures explain to do that?

It so easy and simple - but only if you actually believe in Him who is always with you and again can just walk and talk with Him - to test the spirits you simply see if they can or will tell you that Jesus Christ came in the flesh - That is you speak to that spirit and say, "Confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh", and listen - right? And that takes what - perhaps a second or two?

1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

But instead we have some big long post that show that we are not actually just walking and talking with the Lord by faith but are fearing the devil!!!

It is that same story of the servant of the prophet is concerned because he sees the enemy all around the city, but can't see the army of God in their chariots of fire around all of them? So it is written that with their ears they barely hear and with their eyes they don't see!

2Kings 16: 6,7 Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was circling the city. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”
So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”
Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

And that is basically what this thread is all about!

We have some 'attendants' of the man of God (Jesus Christ) and they are fearful of the enemy, and that because they don't see what is around them, but just the enemy! So their eyes are not yet opened to see that there are more with us than against us! So we need to test the spirits, right? Or maybe we just need to open our eyes and ears to the Lord our God Jesus Christ???

Basic way to tell if something is true.
1) It is done in a orderly matter, not everyone talking at once like on the view.
2) Is it in line with Scripture as mainstream Christians understand the Bible.
3) Discernment and Wisdom.

 

[The Learner]

Correct . any langauge sounds like gibbersh and sounds to those who know not that langauge .
But the key about true tongues is this .
IF one were to do as did the apostels , say they were given tongues
the rejecters would hear but sounds
and yet to those who did hear they would hear it as though it were in their own langauge .
That is right . That means if one were speaking in tongues
and a spanish man , a german man , a french man were there , THEY WOULD HEAR it as though it were in their own langauge .
and yet ITS A HEAVENLY TONGUE given that can only be heard and recieved by those
whose ears are opened to hear it . This does not often at all occur within churches. usually
when it occurs in a church one would be speaking it and then another might just be given the interpretation .
On the day of pentecost , it was heard and it was real .
But reader , DO BE warned we do have us a false Spirit and false spirits at work as well .
YE SHALL KNOW THEM by their fruits and always remember that the SPIRIT of GOD does not act unseeminly .
IT aint gonna have folks wriggling around and acting like animals .
Just watch out and be on gaurd . FOR TWO THINGS .
the first let none be decieved by dreams visions , words , interpreations , tongues and etc
TEST ALLL
and second , beware that one does not speak against the true speaking of tongues . FOR THAT WOULD BE
THE SPIRIT ITSELF at work . SO the SAFE THING is to TEST THE PERSON , their message
against the biblical truth . IF IT DONT ADD UP , DONT HEED IT .

My exerence and that of linquists, most tongues have no language structure.

Matthew 6:7
ESV “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.

NIV And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

 

[The Learner]

"Biblical Truth"?? You mean like the Scriptures????

You then mean: 1 Jn 4:1-3 ??

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."

Or do you actually mean you understanding of what you read, instead of actually testing the spirits like the you are told to do it in the Scriptures?????

Apparently not!!

It amazes me - we have a very specific "test" to use in the Bible - but when I talk to Christians it is rare to actually find anyone who has actually used that test!!

What I find is that Christians want to think if what they hear doesn't match up with their personal think, then it is not from God!!

The problem with that is that the Bible explains that His thoughts are not your thoughts!!! Did we not read that?

In Isaiah we find that we are supposed to reason with Him - and if anyone does go and reason with Him they will find out that His thoughts are not their thoughts!! Yet it is that reasoning with Him that causes us to learn from Him and stop leaning on our own understanding - but who wants that, right? We want to think what we want to think and because of our pride and our failure to actually repent of our ways, we just keep going back to our thinking - as if our thinking is better that the Lord's and as if we can out think the devil who has been around a lot longer that you and I!

And so most Christians don't seem to seek Him often, and sadly that lack of practice winds up making us dull of hearing, it makes us inadequate to teach others, and it also makes us poor at discernment of spirits!

The solution is then to repent our ways, conclusions, and so forth, and actually seek the Lord our God Jesus Christ to reason and thus listen to Him!!

If you seek Jesus Christ you will find Him because it is written that all those who seek find and things like if you ask for something good He is not going to give you something bad, - and that according to the Scriptures. But if you hear a spiritual voice suddenly when you didn't seek the Lord, then you should test the spirits according to the test that is actually in the Bible which I posted above. And then you need to start seeking Him more and more so that you start taking more and more of your thoughts captive to Jesus Christ, as opposed to just leaning on your own understanding. And as you practice that more and more you become better at understanding what is going on around you, so you will still test the spirit according to the Bible and will also seeking our Lord and reason with Him more and more, and you get better and better at understanding that there are more with you than against you. You learn more and what you wind up learning is that you need our Lord, especially considering all that is going on around us!

So then, concerning the actual topic on this thread - you will seek the Lord whenever tongues come on you, and usually when you also hear others speaking in tongues. And what you find is that the Holy Spirit is almost always, or always, because I can't think of a time when I or someone I heard speaking in tongues was not hearing the Holy Spirit. Yet I still have lots of people/ Christians who question whether that was from the devil! So who were they listening to????

Do you not even understand that since the Bible explains that we are to seek the gifts, it is not the devil that is trying to get us to seek the gifts, including the gifts of tongues? Did you test the spirits like actually told to do? Did you even go reason back and forth with our Lord Jesus Christ? He does want you testing the spirits, and how it is written, but that so that you will learn to listen with your spiritual ears, right?

The text you quoted John was dealing with the gnostics.

1 John 4:3
Another spirit refuses to say this about Jesus. That spirit is not from God. This is the spirit of the enemy of Christ. You have heard that the enemy of Christ is coming, and now he is already in the world.

1 John 5:6

God Told Us About His Son​

Jesus Christ is the one who came. He came with water and with blood. He did not come by water only. No, Jesus came by both water and blood. And the Spirit tells us that this is true. The Spirit is the truth.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Also, I John 1:8-10 gnostics deny that sin exists, today Christian Science is a good example of gnostism.

 

[The Learner]

Yes - but what is prayer??

Is it a religious thing or simply a conversation with your friend and Lord Jesus Christ??

I understand that the Lord teaches us with parables and saying, but we are not really "lambs" but people, and prayer is not some religious thing but a conversation with your Friend, right? Or is it?

Many of us in the Winter-Spring going into Summer Park revivals, ask both Jesus and the Holy
Spirit to pray with us. Romans 8

 

[The Learner]

My thinking is that hose who "talk in tongues" are either:

1) acting on a falsely taught expectation that doesn't exist

2) wanting to draw attention to themselves

3) believing that the babbling, as if it were a special code, brings them closer to God. The tongues of the Bible were just various foreign dialects, not a mass mumbling of inane ramblings.

 

[The Learner]

The "dire importance" is to be put on knowing the Lord Jesus Christ personally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And that is where so many Christians get it wrong!!
This statement be very very true indeed .
So lets examine WHY , the why behind it all .
Many sit under men who might teach some bible , but they indoctrinate their own teachings into it .
Meaning certain denominational teachings .
And now for the why many do this . Many want an interpretation of the bible to suit what their own carnal mind
wants and wanted to believe .
Example . prosperity gospel , social inclusive gospel , universalism and so on
THE scrips they use as a means to justify their own hearts desires and thus to them it means exactly
what THEY WANTED IT TO SAY OR MEAN .
Rather than simply reading the truth for themselves , desiring to know GOD
to know truth and let the SPIRIT reveal the understanding to them
THEY rather take and bend and twist the scrips to fit what they WANTED , what they desired
what they Beleived was truth .
THEY use their own hearts desires to recreate what the scrips are saying
and not rather just learning from GOD , letting the Spirit simply reveal truth to them .
Its dire important folks get into the bible for themselves .
PLUS and this be a huge plus , If one has not truly been drawn to CHRIST
they wont grasp the whole of the truth . THUS the DIRE MESSAGE first and foremost
should be REPENT TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST and GET IN THEM BIBLES TO LEARN HIM .
Have you ever noticed we got us a lot of different versions of jesus and differing and contradicting ideas
THEY CANNOT ALLL BE RIGHT my friend .
THE SURE WAY to KNOW is to Get learned in the scrips .
THERE are also many , like new age , like many within christendom itself
that truly believe they are hearing from GOD
and yet the god they think , the spirit they think is speaking to them
Well know and understand why it is i did not captilze the word god or spirit .
Many folks are getting decieved by voices and thoughts THEY THINK are coming from GOD .
when in truth its but deceptoin cloaked with partial truths to lead them far away FROM GOD , HIS CHRIST .
If any cometh , even a thought , or an angel or any
and that person or even thought or etc speaketh contrary to the biblical Christ , his teachings , the aposetls teachings
I GOT REAL BAD NEWS . IT AINT COMING FROM GOD , CHRIST , OR THE SPIRIT .

 

[The Learner]

Does this not sound exactly like you?

Nowhere do I suggest or say anything about sitting "under men" -but you bring it up! Just like you brought up

"the dire importance of reading the bible"

So when I point out:



You have to think about it and admit that is true:



And bring up: "Many sit under men who might teach some bible"

Here is what you fail to realize - your thinking ""the dire importance of reading the bible" - shows you are one of those men, but you don't realize it.

The Lord had preachers bring a message from Him, but they are men!! Again, those people who wrote the Bible were men!!

The message they brought was that the Lord Jesus Christ exists and is with us to talk to us! That was there message! Yet people make the writings of those men to be God talking to them - so they didn't get the message! And that is why some men write things like ""the dire importance of reading the bible", and ""Many sit under men who might teach some bible".

It is not a crime to listen to a person, a man. Yet righteousness is obtain by seeking the Lord and listening to Him, so that you do what He personally asks you to do. The first thing He personally asked me to do was "Read Your Bible". He also asks me to go to church at times. He had me open and run a Christian bookstore for a couple of years, where I not only sold but also gave away Bible, as He told me to do!

So I don't care if you or anyone else sits "under a man", but I do care the people get to know the King of Kings and Lord or Lords, Jesus Christ personally!!!

I mean: is there not a pastor at the church the Lord asks me to go to - of course there is and I sit there like the Lord asks me to do! And He has asked me to do different ministries that are run by others also going to that church. So I sit there also and the Lord asks me to respect and listen to them, and to be part of the team He has put together.

So why should I have any problem with sitting under other men, so long as the King has told me to do so!!

Indeed, He also sends me angels who watch over me and minister to me also. And you know what? - He asks me to work with them too!!

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

And I can tell you that the Lord expects me to respect them also! They are in fact better as ministering that any person (pastor, preacher) that I have ever come across! And they too will tell you to listen to the Lord Jesus Christ, and even demo it for you.

The Lord once sent me 40 angels and told me to figure out their names. Their names turned out to represent the kind of ministry are purpose they had. Like Jesus means 'God's Salvation' so too their names told you about them. For example, Juda (Praise) was in the front of the group. I kind of like Josh (humor) which is like Isaac (laughter). So I listened to them, because the Lord sent them to me to minister to me, just like the above verse explains. Yet they all heard from the Lord personally themselves, and were better at it than any person I have come to know.

So again, the point, the message if you will, is that we are to all know Jesus Christ personally, and that means listening to Him personally yourself. And don't you know that He is almost certainly going to have you read your Bible at times and go to church to "sit under" both men and angels at times?

So why are you thinking and writing things like:

"the dire importance of reading the bible", and ""Many sit under men who might teach some bible". and then try and tell me:



I am not - I am just saying that we need to seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him! That is it! That is my message!

I may point out that the gift of tongues was design to get people to "seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him" - because it is and pointing that out enforces "seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him".

I may correct people to think reading the Bible is the thing of "dire importance", because the thing of "dire importance" is seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him.

I may even point out that thinking "tongues" is some false way the devil deceives us it wrong and 'why', but even that is to point out that tongues was design to get us to think about seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him! The devil does not want you doing that, so why is the devil going to get Christians speaking in a language they don't understanding - that is just going to get them seeking Jesus Christ and what He has to say - at least it will if they think about it!

So I wind up writing long posts - not because the message I have is not short and simple, eg "Seek Jesus Christ and listen to him", but because His people simply do not want to listen to Him!!!! Yet He wants the to and we need to!!

Ps 81:13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me,
That Israel would walk in My ways!

When and if you ever start really listening to Him, you will find out that the above verse is how He really truly feels!!!

The verse should probably read:

OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH, that My people would listen to Me!!!!!!

People should read the Bible and people should go to church and sit listening to pastors and preachers - but the one important thing is seeking Him and listening to Him by faith!! And by doing that I know that He tells me to read my Bible and go to church at times. He also tells me to go to the store and gas station at times. He also tells me to work with and listen to the angels He sends to minister to me at times. He will even guide my steps, telling me when to turn to the right or to the left. And as far as this thread is concerned, He will have me speaking in tongues at times, and if I asked about it He will talk to me about it. He can and has sometimes cause my speaking or singing in tongues to turn instantly into speaking or singing in English/American, yet sometimes He just tell me that He has me praying on a general topic, like giving a blessing. That to is an interpretation. We don't always need to know every last detail of what is being said, do we?

So again, the important thing is to seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him... and if He tells you to open up your Bible, do it. If He tells you to sit under some man at church, do that! So it is not me who is worried about so many things, I only try to worry about seeking Him and listening to Him. Now that does mean that I am not a man too. I don't even seek Him and listen to Him as much as I should. I usually only hear Him a dozen different times a day.

1 Corinthians 11:1-2 New International Version (NIV)Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

Ephesians 4:11-16

Easy-to-Read Version

​

11 And that same Christ gave these gifts to people: He made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to care for and teach God’s people.[a] 12 Christ gave these gifts to prepare God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger. 13 This work must continue until we are all joined together in what we believe and in what we know about the Son of God. Our goal is to become like a full-grown man—to look just like Christ and have all his perfection.
14 Then we will no longer be like babies. We will not be people who are always changing like a ship that the waves carry one way and then another. We will not be influenced by every new teaching we hear from people who are trying to deceive us—those who make clever plans and use every kind of trick to fool others into following the wrong way. 15 No, we will speak the truth with love. We will grow to be like Christ in every way. He is the head, 16 and the whole body depends on him. All the parts of the body are joined and held together, with each part doing its own work. This causes the whole body to grow and to be stronger in love.
Read full chapter

The Vital Habits of the Local Church - Grace Church Greeley

Ephesians 4:11-16 50 years of grace. That’s a remarkable milestone for, for, any people in any church. And, certainly, God has shown his kindness to this church, which we’re going to be able to celebrate more tonight. It was nine years ago when I first came to Grace Church. The people would ask...

gracegreeley.org

 

[The Learner]

rth

 

[amigo de christo]

rth

RTTH . RUN to the Hills for the leaders who lead this people are leading them far , far from GOD and HIS CHRIST .
its time to become spirtually BUF
as in BIBLE UP FRIENDS . cause far too many are getting decieved by wolves in wool .

 

[Karl Peters]

many ask for a jesus christ that serves their own hearts desires .
Believing it to be JESUS THE CHRIST when in fact
its doctrines are contrary to THE JESUS CHRIST and HIS DOCTRINE .
Let that be a lesson for all . ITS examination TIME .
IS the JESUS CHRIST we know , love and embrace
THE SAME JESUS CHRIST made mention of in the bible ,
OR be it another jesus . For that answer i suggest SOME BIBLE READING and FAST TOO .
cause many many and many are following another jesus and quite frankly IT WONT save them .

There is only one Jesus Christ!!!!!!!

There are many, even many people, who go by the name Jesus. Indeed, my daughter married a man in Spain whose name is Jesus. So it can happen that someone might look for a 'Jesus', which means God's salvation, in the spiritual realm who is not really God's salvation. The Christ is God's salvation!

Yet that is not even the big problem, but usually a brief mistake that can be made, but will be pointed out to the Christian if they then seek Jesus Christ. Which makes we wonder how it is you don't understand this. Did you not ever actually hear Him give you this teaching?

The bigger problem is pretending!!!

To get fame and recognition, people often "Pretend"!!

Now they would know and God would know, but they pretend because they think others won't find out. But the Holy Spirit testifies! They don't actually believe and understand that, because they don't really seek His voice and listen to Him, but it happens. Now I point people to Jesus the Christ, and that so they would listen to Him, and I do that for various reasons. The real important reason is the He tells me to, but I am for it for many other reasons also! If they do actually listen to Him, they won't write many of the things we read in this forum.

For example - If you really get to know Him you don't write, "THE JESUS CHRIST and HIS DOCTRINE"

You wouldn't right that if you really knew Him because He is not about "DOCTRINE", but about relationship! And you would not call Him "The Jesus Christ", simply because it doesn't make sense. A literal meaning would be "The God's Salvation Christ", which doesn't really make sense, and also I wouldn't write something like "THE JOHN DOE" when there is only one John Doe. There is only one Christ!!! How do you not even know that? A person would know that if they indeed listened to Him!! Indeed, should you not have even figured that out from just reading the Bible?

Ps 2:6,7 “But as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
“I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.

There is only One begotten, One Christ, One KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!

So what you really missed is the He is God the Son - and the significant of that!!

If you would have actually been seeking the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, you would have come to know that God, even Him, is above all things, and it is not even close!!

For example, when it is decided to get rid of that angle Lucifer, who fell, He the KING OF KINGS AND LOR OF LORDS, is going to just tell another single angel of no real significance to just pick up Satan throw him away, like some used bit of trash! He is not going to send some massive army of angels, that is for dealing with a massive force facing them. He is not even going to pick up the piece of trash, Satan, himself but just tell another angel to do it and it will be done!!

You just don't even understand the difference between God and everything else. You don't understand the authority of God, the power of God, the massive difference between God and His creation!! And so because of that you think that if someone seeks Jesus Christ they are not going to get Him, but find someone else!!!

I gave you the verses that proved you wrong, but you doubled down on that wrong thinking, because you just don't understand!! And angel, like say Michael might have a bit of trouble getting threw, but God never does!! Did you not even read how Jesus explain that He was always with us??

How about this verse:

Rev 3:19 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

You obviously don't believe in that verse, and that because you havn't let Him in so that you and Him talk with each other.

So have you read this verse?

Ps 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him, And their time of punishment would be forever.

That is the bigger problem. Many tend to do that. Still, there is hope for them, because it is also written:

2 Sam 22:45 “Foreigners pretend obedience to me; As soon as they hear, they obey me.

So now - if we apply all this to this thread - if a person then asked the Lord for the gift of tongues - as in:

1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

Is He going to give you a "gift of tongues" from the devil???

I covered this already! What did you read in the Bible, which you once wrote that knowing was of dire importance? Did I not already show you?

Luke 11:11 “Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?

Luke 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

The gift on tongues is a good gift, because God and only God is good and He sends His Holy Spirit with gifts for you personally!! But do you ask?

And not how it is written above "but especially that you may prophesy."

That means if you have gotten the gift of tongues, that language you don't understanding, then you should ask for the translation and to hear from the Word of God (Jesus Christ) in a language you do understand!!!

So it means seeking His voice and what He personally has to say to you - which is means a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - and not Jesus Christ and His Doctrine!!!

Indeed, do you really even understand what His "Doctrine" is?

It is covered in this verse:

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

and in this verse:

Mat 17:6 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

and in this verse:

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.

and in the verse I already gave you:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

or maybe you might like this verse:

Ps 81:13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me,
That Israel would walk in My ways!

I have explained often on this thread that "Tongues" was designed to get people to actually seek Him in words that they would understand! I mean if God has you speaking in a language you don't understand, are you not going to them seek Him to hear from Him and a language you do understand?? How could this not occur to you???

Yet even His people don't want to listen to Him, as can be seen above - “Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me."

Luke 11:9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

And you read something about believing in Jesus Christ in the Bible too, didn't you?

Yet we read that perhaps if we seek Jesus Christ we will not find THE JESUS CHRIST!

You can't support that with the scriptures, but you can write it. So who told you that? You didn't find a Jesus that is not the Christ, did you? There is something written about according to your faith - right?

Are you seeking Jesus Christ by faith or by doubt?

 

[amigo de christo]

There is only one Jesus Christ!!!!!!!

There are many, even many people, who go by the name Jesus. Indeed, my daughter married a man in Spain whose name is Jesus. So it can happen that someone might look for a 'Jesus', which means God's salvation, in the spiritual realm who is not really God's salvation. The Christ is God's salvation!

Yet that is not even the big problem, but usually a brief mistake that can be made, but will be pointed out to the Christian if they then seek Jesus Christ. Which makes we wonder how it is you don't understand this. Did you not ever actually hear Him give you this teaching?

The bigger problem is pretending!!!

To get fame and recognition, people often "Pretend"!!

Now they would know and God would know, but they pretend because they think others won't find out. But the Holy Spirit testifies! They don't actually believe and understand that, because they don't really seek His voice and listen to Him, but it happens. Now I point people to Jesus the Christ, and that so they would listen to Him, and I do that for various reasons. The real important reason is the He tells me to, but I am for it for many other reasons also! If they do actually listen to Him, they won't write many of the things we read in this forum.

For example - If you really get to know Him you don't write, "THE JESUS CHRIST and HIS DOCTRINE"

You wouldn't right that if you really knew Him because He is not about "DOCTRINE", but about relationship! And you would not call Him "The Jesus Christ", simply because it doesn't make sense. A literal meaning would be "The God's Salvation Christ", which doesn't really make sense, and also I wouldn't write something like "THE JOHN DOE" when there is only one John Doe. There is only one Christ!!! How do you not even know that? A person would know that if they indeed listened to Him!! Indeed, should you not have even figured that out from just reading the Bible?

Ps 2:6,7 “But as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
“I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.

There is only One begotten, One Christ, One KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!

So what you really missed is the He is God the Son - and the significant of that!!

If you would have actually been seeking the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, you would have come to know that God, even Him, is above all things, and it is not even close!!

For example, when it is decided to get rid of that angle Lucifer, who fell, He the KING OF KINGS AND LOR OF LORDS, is going to just tell another single angel of no real significance to just pick up Satan throw him away, like some used bit of trash! He is not going to send some massive army of angels, that is for dealing with a massive force facing them. He is not even going to pick up the piece of trash, Satan, himself but just tell another angel to do it and it will be done!!

You just don't even understand the difference between God and everything else. You don't understand the authority of God, the power of God, the massive difference between God and His creation!! And so because of that you think that if someone seeks Jesus Christ they are not going to get Him, but find someone else!!!

I gave you the verses that proved you wrong, but you doubled down on that wrong thinking, because you just don't understand!! And angel, like say Michael might have a bit of trouble getting threw, but God never does!! Did you not even read how Jesus explain that He was always with us??

How about this verse:

Rev 3:19 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

You obviously don't believe in that verse, and that because you havn't let Him in so that you and Him talk with each other.

So have you read this verse?

Ps 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him, And their time of punishment would be forever.

That is the bigger problem. Many tend to do that. Still, there is hope for them, because it is also written:

2 Sam 22:45 “Foreigners pretend obedience to me; As soon as they hear, they obey me.

So now - if we apply all this to this thread - if a person then asked the Lord for the gift of tongues - as in:

1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

Is He going to give you a "gift of tongues" from the devil???

I covered this already! What did you read in the Bible, which you once wrote that knowing was of dire importance? Did I not already show you?

Luke 11:11 “Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?

Luke 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

The gift on tongues is a good gift, because God and only God is good and He sends His Holy Spirit with gifts for you personally!! But do you ask?

And not how it is written above "but especially that you may prophesy."

That means if you have gotten the gift of tongues, that language you don't understanding, then you should ask for the translation and to hear from the Word of God (Jesus Christ) in a language you do understand!!!

So it means seeking His voice and what He personally has to say to you - which is means a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - and not Jesus Christ and His Doctrine!!!

Indeed, do you really even understand what His "Doctrine" is?

It is covered in this verse:

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

and in this verse:

Mat 17:6 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

and in this verse:

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.

and in the verse I already gave you:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

or maybe you might like this verse:

Ps 81:13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me,
That Israel would walk in My ways!

I have explained often on this thread that "Tongues" was designed to get people to actually seek Him in words that they would understand! I mean if God has you speaking in a language you don't understand, are you not going to them seek Him to hear from Him and a language you do understand?? How could this not occur to you???

Yet even His people don't want to listen to Him, as can be seen above - “Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me."

Luke 11:9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

And you read something about believing in Jesus Christ in the Bible too, didn't you?

Yet we read that perhaps if we seek Jesus Christ we will not find THE JESUS CHRIST!

You can't support that with the scriptures, but you can write it. So who told you that? You didn't find a Jesus that is not the Christ, did you? There is something written about according to your faith - right?

Are you seeking Jesus Christ by faith or by doubt?

THERE IS ONLY ONE JESUS CHRIST
thus any who preaches another jesus , THEY AINT Preaching THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST . many use HIS NAME dude .
MANY . the number so high that not i nor ten thousand men with me could count it in a day . IN A DAY .
NOW BIBLE UP . cause any version of JESUS CHRIST that is contrary to the teachings of JESUS CHRIST IN THE BIBLE
IS FALSE pard . Thanks for the oppurtunity for allowing me to explain . now HEED IT and open bible and stay in BIBLE .

 

[Karl Peters]

RTTH . RUN to the Hills for the leaders who lead this people are leading them far , far from GOD and HIS CHRIST .
its time to become spirtually BUF
as in BIBLE UP FRIENDS . cause far too many are getting decieved by wolves in wool .

Is there not something written about as you judge, so shall you be judged?

Jesus Chrisy said His sheep hear His voice, so what l leader are you talking about?

Are you saying seek Jesus Christ or Bible up?

Are you saying that Jesus Christ is there to talk to them and lead them or are you saying they need to lean on their own understanding of the Bible, forgetting that the Bible explains that Jesus Christ is there to talk to them, and that all those who seek find?

Have you not read:

Prov 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and turn away from evil.

Look at what you write!

You are not telling people to trust in the Lord with all their heart, but to doubt that He is there for them!
And you are telling them to lean on their own understanding of the Bible instead of actually acknowledging Him in all their ways!
So you are telling the to be wise in their own eyes instead of seeking Him!
And you are telling the to fear the Devil, instead of fearing the Lord and turning away from evil!

So then, does you judgement actually apply to you?

 

[amigo de christo]

Is there not something written about as you judge, so shall you be judged?

Jesus Chrisy said His sheep hear His voice, so what l leader are you talking about?

Are you saying seek Jesus Christ or Bible up?

Are you saying that Jesus Christ is there to talk to them and lead them or are you saying they need to lean on their own understanding of the Bible, forgetting that the Bible explains that Jesus Christ is there to talk to them, and that all those who seek find?

Have you not read:

Prov 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and turn away from evil.

Look at what you write!

You are not telling people to trust in the Lord with all their heart, but to doubt that He is there for them!
And you are telling them to lean on their own understanding of the Bible instead of actually acknowledging Him in all their ways!
So you are telling the to be wise in their own eyes instead of seeking Him!
And you are telling the to fear the Devil, instead of fearing the Lord and turning away from evil!

So then, does you judgement actually apply to you?

Prov 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and turn away from evil.
its not me telling folks to just trust in a voice they might think is JESUS .
Many are leaning upon their own understanding and yet that understanding , that voice they think is coming from GOD
or CHRIST or the SPIRIT , its contradicting the word and words of GOD . BIBLE UP my friend .
For there is a way which seemth right unto man , only it contradicts the truth of GOD , its end be the second death .
IF we say WE BELIEVE then its time to GET IN THE BIBLE and learn WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID and actually did
and actually taught . cause many do teach contrary and yet they all say they hear from GOD and the SPIRIT . IT AINT LOOKINGGOOD
karl . not at all . SO , allow me some parting words . ready for them . BIBLE UP .

 

[amigo de christo]

Two words for all believers .
BIBLE UP .
men be decieving and do test all against biblical GOD INSPIRED doctrine .

 

[Karl Peters]

There are people who fear the devil instead of the Lord, and we are told to not be that way. We do want to get wisdom, but Wisdom is a name for the Holy Spirit!! It is not our wisdom we are to seek, but rather God's wisdom and His sheep hear his voice - which is where we get understanding and knowledge!

Prov 2:1-7
My son, if you will receive my words
And treasure my commandments within you,
Make your ear attentive to wisdom,
Incline your heart to understanding;
For if you cry for discernment,
Lift your voice for understanding;
If you seek her as silver
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
Then you will discern the fear of the LORD
And discover the knowledge of God.
For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk in integrity,

You can read in the above that we are not fearing the devil, like the devil wants you to do. But we are fearing God and seek Him for the wisdom He has - and from His voice come the understanding and knowledge that we need. That would include the understanding you need concerning the Bible!!

A person leaning on their own understanding of the Bible might wind up fearing the Devil instead of our Lord Jesus Christ! And that is why we read what we do on this thread!!

People ask the Lord for the gifts of the Holy Spirit and He sends His Holy Spirit with them. So the devout believers get the gift of tongues, but others think they are drunk with wine, because it is strange speaking in a language they can't understand. Yet the devout believers also get the interpretation, because that is also a gift of the Holy Spirit, but the non-believers think they are not actually hearing from God because they don't. And if you desire, thus ask, for the other gifts of the Spirit the Lord in His timing will also give them to you. All of them!! And that is because they were all design to get you to listen to the Lord more and more!!!

So we have the gift of tongues, (which get you to seek His voice), and so the gift of interpretation (to know what He is saying in your language), and a 'word of wisdom' which also requires you hear Him, and a word of knowledge which also requires you hear Him, and 'faith' which comes from hearing (Rom 10), gifts of healing which He does when we listen to Him (Ex 15:26), effecting of miracles which He does when we listen to Him and do what He asked, and prophecy which is acquired by listening to Him, distinguishing of spirits which we get by practicing listening (Heb 5:14 & Heb 1:14).

Ah, but there will always be those wanting you to doubt God!! The first words from that snake in the garden was "did God really say"! And that is what this thread is about!!

 

[Karl Peters]

Two words for all believers .
BIBLE UP .
men be decieving and do test all against biblical GOD INSPIRED doctrine .

HA - The Bible doesn't even tell you to test that way!!

It does say to read the Bible because for a number of reason, including for reproof!!

So the reproof is:

1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

And we should include the next verse also because some doubt that greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world!!

1 Jn 4:4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.

You seek God you find God! But to be sure if you are not then you ask and test the spirit who is talking to you according to what is actually written in the Bible - as copied above! You do not lean on your own understanding, like some want you to do!! That is what they mean by writing "BIBLE UP"

Jesus had to deal with them as we can read in the Bible:

Jn 5:39,40 “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. “But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

So indeed, read the Bible!! But the Bible tells you to seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him!!!

There are people, and have been, who read the sacred writings but they don't actually believe them!

Jn 5: 46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.
“But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Moses did not write to make it about his writings, but to tell people that the word was near them so they could find it in their mouths and in their hearts - and that is the Word of God we are preaching - but apparently not all preach that. Some are preaching Bible Up, and such things. But they don't even believe what they read!!

Deut 30:14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

So we are not preaching "Bible Up"!!! The Word of God we are preaching is "WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART".

That is where you find Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit bring His words to your spirit. That is how you really get to know Him personally!!

The first words He told me were, "Ready You Bible", but those were just the first three words!!! Him and I have been talking back and forth for well over 20 years now, and we talk everyday called Today!!

So some other things on this subject, that the Lord has told me personally are:

WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???

THE LIE IS “GOD DOESN’T TALK TO YOU!!!!” REMEMBER WHAT THE DEVIL SAID “DID GOD REALLY TELL YOU?” THAT IS THE LIE! THAT IS THE LIE BEING USED TODAY!

THERE ARE TWO MISTAKES YOU CAN MAKE; NOT TO BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS RIGHT, AND THE OTHERS IS TO NOT TO BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

A MAN THAT LISTENS TO GOD IS AS RARE AS DIAMONDS IN THE ROCK.

DON’T SAY YOU DID OR ARE DOING WHAT YOU THINK IS BEST, SAY YOU DID AND ARE DOING WHAT HE THINKS IS BEST. THAT WAY YOU WILL BE SEEKING HIM AT TIMES!

UNDERSTANDING IS UNDERSTANDING I AM UNDERSTANDING! UNDERSTAND?

THE SCRIPTURES ARE RIGHT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS. THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACT. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE, BUT THE WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE.

IT'S NOT EASY LISTENING TO A ROCK. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN VERY CLOSE!

THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS.

SHOULDN’T YOU HEAR FROM A MAN YOU’RE JUDGING WORTHY OF DEATH AND EXAMINE WHETHER THERE IS TRUTH IN WHAT HE SAYS. SO IT IS THAT I HAVE MADE HEARING FROM ME THE VERY THINGS THAT GIVES YOU ETERNAL LIFE.

The point is that Jesus Christ is the Word of God because His Father gave Him all things including the words of God. And the Holy Spirit takes those words from Him and gives them to our spirit if we are willing to seeking and hear from Him. That takes some faith but not much to get started. Yet that snake of old is telling people to doubt it!! So this thread is about how tongues is not from God when God gives that gift and you can and should talk to the Lord about it! So that snake comes back by trying to tell you that hearing from God is evil and from the devil, and that you are not worthy to hear from God - that same "did God really say" approach. And it is not hard to see who is fearing the devil instead of God and who is telling you to lean on your own understanding instead of seeking Jesus Christ personally!!

Still to help. let me just say seek Jesus Christ and you will find Him. The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit around, but He will talk to you and help you understand all things!