The Fear of the Lord

[Episkopos]

Greetings to my fellow Board members.

We are told by Peter, after having visited Cornelius the centurion and his oikos, that God accepts people from the nations along this criteria.


Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him.

This is the minimum requirement for salvation from people of every nation, tribe and tongue. It is acceptance by God...not that God is well-pleased or even pleased with these...that standard of which is by faith.

So then just as the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom so is it also the beginning of salvation.

Prov. 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

God is a righteous judge. They who work righteousness and fear the Lord are doing what is humanly possible to be accepted with God.

So then to please God takes a lot...it takes faith...but to be saved requires the fear of the Lord.

The fear of the Lord remains the main criteria for a basic salvation.

Now some may say that we no longer need the fear of the Lord. But this is not true. There are doctrines circulating around these days that would make us foolish rather than be wise.

Does faith negate the fear of the Lord?

No...as we shall see.

 

[Episkopos]

Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase.

God continued to increase the church. He raised it to a new level. Was the fear of the Lord done away with? NO. God built on it. He edified on it.

So then on our part it was the fear of the Lord...and He added in the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

How do we get that extra dimension from God? This is by adding faith to the fear of the Lord.

That's the way of real advancement.

But we can try comforting ourselves by doing away with the fear of God....in which case we don't need His comfort. But it is His presence that comforts us. Why leave God out?

We need to receive God as He is...not as we want Him to be. And the presence of God is terror! Yet also unfathomable love.

It is both. The true God must be received in both.

The enemy can come to us as an angel of light...but there is something missing. He can speak nice things, complimentary things...things that build us up....but in the wrong part of us. In our flesh.

But the presence of God causes dread so that you tremble in fear. That is who He is.

 

[lforrest]

Can you comprehend the depths of God's love? No?
Then can you comprehend his wrath against those who kill, abuse, and worse those that try to separate him from those he loves? That is a very dreadful position.
I think that's why Jesus warned us to settle it on the way.

 

[Episkopos]

There are they who say that we are saved by...Jesus plus nothing"...as if God wanted us to relax our way into the kingdom. These are they who are overly afraid of "works".

But nobody is saved in a vacuum. We are ALWAYS doing works...whether they be works of the flesh or the Spirit. It is really just one or the other. So there is no such thing as "Jesus plus nothing." It is either Jesus plus the works of the flesh....to an eternal loss. Or else Jesus plus the life in the Spirit which leads to eternal rewards.

And we are not saved to do our own thing. That would mean we would be saved IN our sins rather than away from them.

Salvation is not meant to serve us and our desires...but to serve God and His will. So in many ways mankind has been trying to wrestle the purpose of salvation away from God and onto ourselves. This is the work of the enemy of our souls.

We are not being saved to "do nothing" but to be conformed to both the death and life of Jesus Christ who created us. We were created in the image of God...and we are being restored to THAT image. To be holy as God is holy.

We were created for good works. Don't always be stuck in beginning mode and what saves one initially. If someone saves you from drowning by pulling you out of the water by the hair....you don't need to always keep having your hair pulled to remain "saved."


There is a life IN the Spirit to be lived for the redeemed of the Lord. And it is quite the opposite of "doing nothing." The one who does nothing is like the servant who buried his talent and lost what he thought he had.


We are to bear fruit. Not by human effort...but through allowing God's life to take over what we used to call our own. It is His life lived through us that makes for a fruit that lasts.

But we will each be judged by our works...what we have done with what we have been given. Those who have received grace will be expected to have produced an abundant fruit. To whom much is given, more will be expected.

 

[Episkopos]

Now some would say...Isn't salvation based on repentance and faith but without the fear of the Lord?

But I see the fear of the Lord covering both belief and repentance. One cannot fear someone they don't believe in. And if someone truly fears the Lord...repentance is likely to follow.

I am looking at this from a bible-wide perspective. Trying to avoid a formulaic bias that would seem to negate other parts of the bible.


Look at the wise virgins. Were they not accepted whereas the foolish ones rejected? And compare that with Proverbs and the benefits of wisdom that are stressed there.

It is the fear of God that keeps us from evil so often. What I see in the modern church is a tendency towards assurance of salvation but in a way that negates the fear of the Lord. So by putting the fear of the Lord back into the right perspective the truth is brought back into more of a semblance of balance.

God is love. But He is also fearsome and His judgments are very different to ours. So we can only look to Him for what is right and what is sure.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are they who say that we are saved by...Jesus plus nothing"...as if God wanted us to relax our way into the kingdom. These are they who are overly afraid of "works".

But nobody is saved in a vacuum. We are ALWAYS doing works...whether they be works of the flesh or the Spirit. It is really just one or the other. So there is no such thing as "Jesus plus nothing." It is either Jesus plus the works of the flesh....to an eternal loss. Or else Jesus plus the life in the Spirit which leads to eternal rewards.

And we are not saved to do our own thing. That would mean we would be saved IN our sins rather than away from them.

Salvation is not meant to serve us and our desires...but to serve God and His will. So in many ways mankind has been trying to wrestle the purpose of salvation away from God and onto ourselves. This is the work of the enemy of our souls.

We are not being saved to "do nothing" but to be conformed to both the death and life of Jesus Christ who created us. We were created in the image of God...and we are being restored to THAT image. To be holy as God is holy.

We were created for good works. Don't always be stuck in beginning mode and what saves one initially. If someone saves you from drowning by pulling you out of the water by the hair....you don't need to always keep having your hair pulled to remain "saved."


There is a life IN the Spirit to be lived for the redeemed of the Lord. And it is quite the opposite of "doing nothing." The one who does nothing is like the servant who buried his talent and lost what he thought he had.


We are to bear fruit. Not by human effort...but through allowing God's life to take over what we used to call our own. It is His life lived through us that makes for a fruit that lasts.

But we will each be judged by our works...what we have done with what we have been given. Those who have received grace will be expected to have produced an abundant fruit. To whom much is given, more will be expected.

Very well said.
I understand this to be the obedience of faith.
We have faith and so we obey.
What are we obeying?
The works God wants us to do.
And ALL we do should be for God.

Colossians 3:23

 

[GodsGrace]

Now some would say...Isn't salvation based on repentance and faith but without the fear of the Lord?

But I see the fear of the Lord covering both belief and repentance. One cannot fear someone they don't believe in. And if someone truly fears the Lord...repentance is likely to follow.

I am looking at this from a bible-wide perspective. Trying to avoid a formulaic bias that would seem to negate other parts of the bible.


Look at the wise virgins. Were they not accepted whereas the foolish ones rejected? And compare that with Proverbs and the benefits of wisdom that are stressed there.

It is the fear of God that keeps us from evil so often. What I see in the modern church is a tendency towards assurance of salvation but in a way that negates the fear of the Lord. So by putting the fear of the Lord back into the right perspective the truth is brought back into more of a semblance of balance.

God is love. But He is also fearsome and His judgments are very different to ours. So we can only look to Him for what is right and what is sure.

You're right. Too many today speak about God's love as if that's all God is.
I like to remind them that God is love,,,
But He is also Just.

I don't quite see this the same as fear...
Justice is just the desire for everyone to have what they deserve....
God certainly will give to each according to his works/deeds.
Romans 2:6

I just don't feel any fear....
You feel fear?
Or do you mean a deep respect?
IOW, are you AFRAID of God?

 

[Episkopos]

You're right. Too many today speak about God's love as if that's all God is.
I like to remind them that God is love,,,
But He is also Just.

I don't quite see this the same as fear...
Justice is just the desire for everyone to have what they deserve....
God certainly will give to each according to his works/deeds.
Romans 2:6

I just don't feel any fear....
You feel fear?
Or do you mean a deep respect?
IOW, are you AFRAID of God?

Fear comes about by proximity to the living God. But that fear is offset by the attraction of love. So then there is both in an encounter with God.

But the fear of God also comes to us in the conviction of the Holy Spirit...that leads us to repentance.

Am I afraid of God? Both in love with and in fear of. <><

 

[GodsGrace]

Fear comes about by proximity to the living God. But that fear is offset by the attraction of love. So then there is both in an encounter with God.

But the fear of God also comes to us in the conviction of the Holy Spirit...that leads us to repentance.

Am I afraid of God? Both in love with and in fear of. <><

Interesting.
We each have such personal experiences.

I don't even remember if I CONSCIOUSLY repented...I mean the real meaning of repent. All I know is that I was shown something, and I knew right away that I wanted to follow God and not the enemy.

I had come to believe in a real spiritual world, and that a decision had to be made.
I guess that's repentance...but I wasn't aware of its name or what it was...but it turned out to be a turning toward God. Same thing.

 

[amadeus]

Now some would say...Isn't salvation based on repentance and faith but without the fear of the Lord?

But I see the fear of the Lord covering both belief and repentance. One cannot fear someone they don't believe in. And if someone truly fears the Lord...repentance is likely to follow.

I am looking at this from a bible-wide perspective. Trying to avoid a formulaic bias that would seem to negate other parts of the bible.


Look at the wise virgins. Were they not accepted whereas the foolish ones rejected? And compare that with Proverbs and the benefits of wisdom that are stressed there.

It is the fear of God that keeps us from evil so often. What I see in the modern church is a tendency towards assurance of salvation but in a way that negates the fear of the Lord. So by putting the fear of the Lord back into the right perspective the truth is brought back into more of a semblance of balance.

God is love. But He is also fearsome and His judgments are very different to ours. So we can only look to Him for what is right and what is sure.

Indeed, to understand this we need to read and understand the OT as well as the NT. The same God was in the OT as the One we have in the NT. When a person sees them as being different probably he simply needs to get to know God better. God who loves that person will provide all necessary help...

 

[Episkopos]

Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Highminded? In the Greek it's a big long word that means arrogant or having a high opinion of one's ideas.

I see it as taking oneself too seriously. There are as many ways to do this as there are people. But this error in conduct follows certain trends that we can identify.

We all know people that see themselves as God's champions for truth. Bible thumpers. All doctrine, no love...no fear of the Lord. Not afraid to attack what they don't understand. Happy to judge from themselves. So there is an aggressive high minded tendency in some.​

But there is also the more passive kind...at least until provoked. These are they that judge others religiously. (not that the more aggressive kind don't also do the same). But for these it has to do with their own standing in mind. A haughty attitude with a more devotional twist. Paul said..

Rom. 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.

For some people this is very hard to fathom...seeing everything, as they do, from a very subjective way of thinking. For them this is about themselves not the Lord or others. The arrows all point inward to themselves.

A lack of humility is directly proportional to lack of fear of the Lord. To lack in this is to be very poorly off before the Lord. Even the smallest of encounters, gifts or blessings are likely to be taken the wrong way.

For the people who are ultimately rejected by God, it isn't what God did for them or to them or through them that determines their final standing...but how they received these or reacted to these. Do we allow our pride to be puffed up? Do we use a human reasoning to comfort ourselves to the point where we draw from a self-glorying? Do we defend ourselves when challenged? Are we easily offended or provoked?

We can be too quick to judge ourselves in a positive light...but we would be better to remain in the fear of the Lord and not to presume we are so righteous.

Did God speak through us? He also spoke through the mouth of a donkey.

So we ought to remember who we are without God. We are nothing.

 

[marks]

There are they who say that we are saved by...Jesus plus nothing"...as if God wanted us to relax our way into the kingdom. These are they who are overly afraid of "works".

Hi Episkopos,

You present the alternatives clearly, as "Jesus plus nothing", leaving then, "Jesus plus something". I maintain that salvation is by Jesus alone, by faith in Him. There is nothing mere and mortal man can add to the finished work of Christ.

But in saying that we are saved by Jesus plus nothing, this is not saying that I am "overly afraid of works". Where would that come from?

You are ascribing a negative emotional response, but this is a spiritual doctrine of salvation.

Now, I'm anticipating already your reply, "A doctrine does not save . . ." of course. But a doctrine is the description of a truth that does.

We are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Simple truth, simply expressed. The beauty of Scripture.

I have the Bible to tell me, and my feelings are irrelevant. It probably goes without saying that your disparaging comments do not accurately reflect me for one, and I'm pretty certain many others who believe the same way are not afraid of works.

Though if it's not from His Spirit, it's not righteousness, being our own works.

Does the insertion of comments about the character and motives of those who disagree improve or degrade the quality of a discussion about God, the Bible, and spiritual matters?

Much love!

 

[faithfulness]

Hebrews 5:7-10 King James Version (KJV)
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[Episkopos]

Hebrews 5:7-10
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Thank you faithfulness. If even Jesus feared the Lord...what does that say about us?

Jesus fulfilled ALL righteousness...in that He submitted to a baptism in His humanity...but He also feared in His humanity. Even Jesus.

Why?

To fulfill all righteousness. The standard of righteousness is to fear the Lord, and do rightly. As Peter also stated.

 

[Episkopos]

You present the alternatives clearly, as "Jesus plus nothing", leaving then, "Jesus plus something". I maintain that salvation is by Jesus alone, by faith in Him. There is nothing mere and mortal man can add to the finished work of Christ.

What does that mean? No one is finally saved until the end of their time...their race. So are you speaking of a religious salvation status? You know this doesn't exist but in the minds of religious men.

Salvation right now is to enter into Christ. It is freely given to they who surrender everything to have it. It costs us everything in this world to have it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi Episkopos,

You present the alternatives clearly, as "Jesus plus nothing", leaving then, "Jesus plus something". I maintain that salvation is by Jesus alone, by faith in Him. There is nothing mere and mortal man can add to the finished work of Christ.

But in saying that we are saved by Jesus plus nothing, this is not saying that I am "overly afraid of works". Where would that come from?

You are ascribing a negative emotional response, but this is a spiritual doctrine of salvation.

Now, I'm anticipating already your reply, "A doctrine does not save . . ." of course. But a doctrine is the description of a truth that does.

We are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Simple truth, simply expressed. The beauty of Scripture.

I have the Bible to tell me, and my feelings are irrelevant. It probably goes without saying that your disparaging comments do not accurately reflect me for one, and I'm pretty certain many others who believe the same way are not afraid of works.

Though if it's not from His Spirit, it's not righteousness, being our own works.

Does the insertion of comments about the character and motives of those who disagree improve or degrade the quality of a discussion about God, the Bible, and spiritual matters?

Much love!

You will have to help me here. Where, in the post you just quoted from above, did the man say anything about the character or motives of a particular other man?

 

[Episkopos]

Psalm 115:13
13 He will bless those who fear the Lord,
Both small and great.


Ps. 33:18 Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him,
On those who hope in His mercy,
19 To deliver their soul from death,
And to keep them alive in famine.


John 10: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

All this being true...there is more to the word than just a verse or two on any given subject.
Now the word also says this..

Hebrews 10:31
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

And this is equally true. So then what keeps us in God's hands...so that no man can pluck us out...is the fear of the Lord. So either we fear now and remain in His hand or we will fear later for having forsaken that which keeps us away from evil.

Psalm 85:9
9 Surely His salvation is near to those who fear Him,
That glory may dwell in our land.

Psalm 145:19
19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him;
He also will hear their cry and save them.

 

[Episkopos]

Eccl. 7: 16 Do not be overly righteous,
Nor be overly wise:
Why should you destroy yourself?
17 Do not be overly wicked,
Nor be foolish:
Why should you die before your time?
18 It is good that you grasp this,
And also not remove your hand from the other;
For he who fears God will escape them all.

Eccl. 8:12 Though a sinner does evil a hundred times, and his days are prolonged, yet I surely know that it will be well with those who fear God, who fear before Him. 13 But it will not be well with the wicked; nor will he prolong his days, which are as a shadow, because he does not fear before God.

Psalm 103:11

11 For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him;

 

[Episkopos]

A Book of Remembrance

Mal. 3:16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another,
And the Lord listened and heard them;
So a book of remembrance was written before Him
For those who fear the Lord
And who meditate on His name.

17 “They shall be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts,
“On the day that I make them My jewels.
And I will spare them


Here is a wise position to take in reference to a holy God. The fear of the Lord is a good foundation for us in every regard. At judgment there will be the 3 classifications or levels of following the Lord...but always as the entry level into that number...the fear of the Lord.

Revelation 11:18
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

 

[marks]

What does that mean? No one is finally saved until the end of their time...their race.

Hi Episkopos,

What I mean is this is a salvation by works doctrine. Faith + works = saved. And you don't even really get to find out until after you are dead if it worked for you or not. Or, it seems, in your view, not just salvation, but position over or under others of us, if I'm understanding correctly.

What if your works have failed to garner sufficient righteousness for yourself, of yourself? Then what? It will be too late.

The Bible is very plain that salvation comes by faith, we are reborn of God, and remain His children forever. Works are performed as a result of that rebirth, and for no other reason. All other works are simply of the flesh.

We run the race that was laid out for us, in advance, being saved. God wants us to know we have eternal life. Not to wait to find out. And that we will have unity in love, not authority over each other.

Much love!